This SH*T sucks!

[DPDESIGN]

So I started my PCT after my test and tren cycle. I got great results from the cycle- put on 15 lbs solid muscle by the end of the cycle. im on the 3rd week of PCT and I lost 7 lbs already WTF is this normal? I know you lose some of your gains but I feel like im slowly going back to where i started. Im currently 180 5'7 14% BF 30 years old. PCT is nolva 20 mgs a day. Is there any thing to help keep my gains?

[Mooseman33]

thats all ur doing for PCT?

have u changed ur diet at all?
added any supps?

poorly planned my friend

[D7M]

I would add another SERM in there to help recovery: clomid or toremifene.

But honestly, 7lbs isn't' that much. It's probably just water weight, as your estrogen levels are stabilizing.

Also, read this: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=396292

[MotoLifter]

your PCT plan sucked. with a proper PCT plan you would be in a much better place by now.

research what you should be doing before you do it.

clen has been used for its anticatabolic effects, but you seem to be pretty far along now and dont know how much it would save at this point.


Moto

[DPDESIGN]

The diet is pretty much the same I added creatine to my supplements.

[yungone501]

Is this your first cycle?

Sounds like you just losing the water weight my friend. Although I must say that Ive always stayed pretty dry while doing test/tren. Never really gained much water weight.

Look at the bright side, you're 8 pounds heavier than you were. At your height thats pretty good.

[RANA]

Was it Tren A or E, and test E or prop?
PCT was lacking

[toothache]

You should add some clomid. Make sure you are getting enough protein, carbs, and fats.

[DPDESIGN]

Was it Tren A or E, and test E or prop?
PCT was lacking

It was tren A and test E, I know I lacked with the clomid, I def screwed up my PCT.

[RANA]

Sounds like you lost water wgt. What did your diet look like during your cycle?
How long was your cycle? Did you start your tren the same time you started you test and did you end at the same time?

[DPDESIGN]

Sounds like you lost water wgt. What did your diet look like during your cycle?
How long was your cycle? Did you start your tren the same time you started you test and did you end at the same time?

Durning and after cycle I ate a lot of high protein foods like chicken tuna sweet potaoes, oatmeal. my diet was good I got good results but PCT was poor like you guys stated. I started the tren and the test at the time but ended the test 1 week later then the tren.

[M302_Imola]

How often are you working out now? Try reducing the time you are in the gym. So if you were spending 1hr to 1:15 in the gym on cycle try to knock your workout out in 30-45 minute now that you are in PCT...this will help your cortisol levels to not rise to high.

[chuckt12345]

pct would help prolong those gains bue regardless it being 3 months or 12 your gonna lose all that weight eventually

[Spartan ^]

pct would help prolong those gains bue regardless it being 3 months or 12 your gonna lose all that weight eventually

elaborate on that man. i dont quite understand. Are you saying that no matter what our efforts are, we will eventually shrink to nothing? not geing smartass, I just dont understand that quote.......

[chuckt12345]

elaborate on that man. i dont quite understand. Are you saying that no matter what our efforts are, we will eventually shrink to nothing? not geing smartass, I just dont understand that quote.......

depends on your definition of efforts? If you were at your max potential prior to your first cycle then im a firm believer you will lose most if not all gains eventually from an AAS cycle.

[PT]

depends on your definition of efforts? If you were at your max potential prior to your first cycle then im a firm believer you will lose most if not all gains eventually from an AAS cycle.

no way is this true.

[chuckt12345]

no way is this true.

explain please

[Spartan ^]

If this is the case, then why do we tell everyone to get to max gains before using AAS? AAS pushes you past your maximum potential. So you're saying you will lose back down to max potential only.....Whats the point of even using then? the sides or potential for them are in no way worth using if you are jsut going to end up small.....or not happy with yourself.....

[yungone501]

depends on your definition of efforts? If you were at your max potential prior to your first cycle then im a firm believer you will lose most if not all gains eventually from an AAS cycle.

Any muscle that is gained will 'eventually' be lost if diet/training are not kept up. I do not believe anything above max potential is in the equation though.

[chuckt12345]

Im not sayin this is fact, im just stating my opinon about what we weigh.
spartan,, say your a 30 yr old and you weigh 200lb. you been eating good diet of 3500 calories and have good workout routine. You been at 200lb for along time. We'll say thats your natural potential. You do your first test cycle and you get to 215lb (good solid muscle gains) with that same diet/routine. You end cycle and keep same 3500 calorie diet and workout routine for the next 2 years. What do you thnk you will weigh in 2 years without any AAS?
If it was true that i would retain muscle with AAS use i would of done 2 cycles along time ago and never would of touched it again.

[Vitruvian-Man]

pct would help prolong those gains bue regardless it being 3 months or 12 your gonna lose all that weight eventually

x2 people just don't seem to get this.

I'm of the same opinion Chuck. You can take anabolic steroids and grow way past your genetic limit; however, eventually when you discontinue taking the AAS your gains will diminish (this happens to everyone just @ different time-rates.)

The reason some people are able to "stay" past their genetic limits is by continuously cycling (IE) cruising and blasting.

Or by running cycles, PCT'ing, and then quickly jumping back on to ensure maintenance of gains.

IMO someone is lucky if they manage to keep 50% of the gains they made on cycle, once the PCT has passed.

I would go even further, to say, that people probably lose 75% of weight gains post cycle after 2 - 3 months has passed (and they haven't introduced any additional hormones during this period.)

Simply put: the body always wants to return to homeostasis...

Just my 0.02

[romo6]

^^^ i also somewhat agree with chuck and vitruvian on this,from personal experience.Everybody is different,genetics plays a role.

[terraj]

I don't buy that, I feel that once you have broken new ground in muscle growth it is easier maintain it, and possible to regain it after a lay off. Sure over time it will fade...

IMO if you cycle right and train hard you are changing your body composition.

The attached pic, thats my back....nothing great I know. But, it's after three months of training, after 7 years of no training and 8 years of no gear. The muscle came back because it had been there before and the bulk of it was made on cycles.

[darkcrayz]

my belief is if you can work hard and keep your training and diet on point after cycle/pct you can keep the majority of the muscle because the body's homeostatic weight is reset and it adjusts to the new weight. its the same idea that after you have been weight training for 2/3/4/5+ years the body wont return to its untrained weight because it has adjusted to the new weight and considers it homeostatic.

the question i would pose it how long does it take the body to adjust up to the new weight so it considers it the baseline.

that is just my opinion on it anyway.

[bjpennnn]

you guys think thats true even when you start adding hgh to the equation

[chuckt12345]

I don't buy that, I feel that once you have broken new ground in muscle growth it is easier maintain it, and possible to regain it after a lay off. Sure over time it will fade...

IMO if you cycle right and train hard you are changing your body composition.

The attached pic, thats my back....nothing great I know. But, it's after three months of training, after 7 years of no training and 8 years of no gear. The muscle came back because it had been there before and the bulk of it was made on cycles.

Thats because of yoru genetics,, not any prior AAS use 8 yrs ago.

[Spartan ^]

Im not sayin this is fact, im just stating my opinon about what we weigh.
spartan,, say your a 30 yr old and you weigh 200lb. you been eating good diet of 3500 calories and have good workout routine. You been at 200lb for along time. We'll say thats your natural potential. You do your first test cycle and you get to 215lb (good solid muscle gains) with that same diet/routine. You end cycle and keep same 3500 calorie diet and workout routine for the next 2 years. What do you thnk you will weigh in 2 years without any AAS?
If it was true that i would retain muscle with AAS use i would of done 2 cycles along time ago and never would of touched it again.

After PCT and water weight drop (if any), I firmly believe you can maintain your "quality" gains. It may not be the 15lbs but easily 7-8 lbs should be maintainable. (Until you change your diet and workout regime) If you decide to stop all together then you are gonna end up like the governator or the current Mr.T! (they resemble prunes to me.)

On another note, I do feel from personal experience (right now) that muscle memory is real. I have been at max gains naturally and cycled to get bigger. I did so and now at 31 years old, after an accident and injury that kept me out of the gym for a few months, I have been back in in the gym for just a few weeks and am feeling like I will exceed past what my natural gains were. (Im not on currently) Thats why i feel one is able to maintain above natrual potential physique with proper diet and excercise/workouts. JMO and everyone's different.

[chuckt12345]

spartan how long has it been since last cycle?

[Spartan ^]

spartan how long has it been since last cycle?

ended summer of last year

[Brian McClay]

your pct is not that strong I would suggest that you add in clomid 100-100-50 and think about the addition of hcg if you can get your hands on it.

[bjpennnn]

no hcg in pct