Blood Work & Spermatic Cytoanalysis after Oxandrolone Cycle at 63 mg ed (averaged)

[FranciscoG]

Not exactly, during use of endogenious levels of aas, in the 100s of mg, homeostasis is compromised. Use of hCG does not correct the compromise.

Inorder to address the compromised condition one has to identify the cause, the use of endogenious levels, one has to identify the correction routh, stopping the use of endogenious levels. Logic dictates homeostasis is not restored until that stimuli is removed.

Furthur, we have seen for multiple decades that restoration of homeostasis does not occur on cycle. To use a drug on cycle than can not possibly restore homeostasis does not aid the physical recovery. There have been unfounded arguments that use of hCG during cycles keeps the production of LH and some how post cycle many weeks that aids in recovery, cause production never stopped. However, what is not taken into account is that there is meager amounts of LH are produced regarless. There body´s production of LH is rarely zero. Thus the reason why on a scale of 240-840 we do not see a user with a 0, 100s perhaps but 0 no.
HCG elevates LH production but here again to what end when endogenious levels of aas are many 100s% higher?

[BJJ]

Not exactly, during use of endogenious levels of aas, in the 100s of mg, homeostasis is compromised. Use of hCG does not correct the compromise.

Inorder to address the compromised condition one has to identify the cause, the use of endogenious levels, one has to identify the correction routh, stopping the use of endogenious levels. Logic dictates homeostasis is not restored until that stimuli is removed.

Furthur, we have seen for multiple decades that restoration of homeostasis does not occur on cycle. To use a drug on cycle than can not possibly restore homeostasis does not aid the physical recovery. There have been unfounded arguments that use of hCG during cycles keeps the production of LH and some how post cycle many weeks that aids in recovery, cause production never stopped. However, what is not taken into account is that there is meager amounts of LH are produced regarless. There body´s production of LH is rarely zero. Thus the reason why on a scale of 240-840 we do not see a user with a 0, 100s perhaps but 0 no.
HCG elevates LH production but here again to what end when endogenious levels of aas are many 100s% higher?

In which way then HMG is better than HCG, in your view?

[FranciscoG]

I am using them both together now. I have never used hmg alone or prior to sat.

[BJJ]

My personal experience is that the body adapts and desensitizes.

In 2001 or 2003 I purchased 100,000 IUs of pregnyl.

I ran it during cycle. I also used it off cycle. My expereince was that it was far less effective.


Today many are recommending use of HCG on cycle to address atrophy on cycle when using 100s of mg of aas. I simply do not agree with the science.

During use of aas can cause testicular atrophyis a result of reducing the amount of luteinizing hormone amoung other hormones.

Although use of HCG during cycle will certainly cause LH production, it does not address the cause, it impotently address the symptom, the atrophy itself.

The cause is administration of aas for a period of most generally months.

The human body restricts the production of fsh/gn/lh and so on to address the feed back. Administration of HCG during cycles will not stop this effect. It may make the subject feel better mentally cause his testicals are larger, but it will not address again the cause. Many argue that consistant administration of hcg aids post cycle. However, this flies in the face of science which dicates the feed backs for simple reasons of homeostasis. Again most pct advice given on the boards feels like it has been written by 20 something year-olds for 20 something year-olds.

Once aas are absent and the body needs to produce GN/LH/FSH hcg can aid in the process.

This PCT I am also using HMG and it feel much better than hcg alone.

I would like to see someone against your theory to show up for a healthy debate but I see nobody!!!

[BJJ]

Final update.

Strangely, ACTH did not change much while IGF-1 doubled!
Also, HGH is higher then before.

[R51FAN]

Hopefully this is not a stupid question :

If I wanted to get extensive tests like this done, what reason would I give my PCP to have it done?

I don't think "Hey Doc, I am about to use some AAS, can you give me some before and after tests" will work

[428scj]

That was interesting to read. I look at the Set Point as habit. If you switch the words and use habit in place of set point, it still works.

If you are a disciplined person and can maintain a positive habit of keeping a rigid diet, workout schedule, healthy lifestyle, ect., then I suspect your body will allow you to keep much of what you gained. In this instance, what you lose would/could be directly related to what the AAS did for you.

Does that make any sense or am I off?

[darkcrayz]

That was interesting to read. I look at the Set Point as habit. If you switch the words and use habit in place of set point, it still works.

If you are a disciplined person and can maintain a positive habit of keeping a rigid diet, workout schedule, healthy lifestyle, ect., then I suspect your body will allow you to keep much of what you gained. In this instance, what you lose would/could be directly related to what the AAS did for you.

Does that make any sense or am I off?

what you are saying makes sense but the issue that pharmadoc raises is that even if you stay strict on your regiment post cycle, during pct, and time off the body is going to be running multiple feedback loops to get you back to H. so while you staying strict and fighting the negative feedback loop you cant completely stop it. that is why some gains are lost after you come off cycle.

in another thread there was a debate as to how much of your on cycle gains you could keep if you stayed regimented but never ran a cycle again. it comes down the argument between smaller blast cycles putting on less weight as opposed to longer bigger cycles. putting on 20 lb lbm as opposed to 5lb lbm. the negative feedback loop is going to be greater from a 20lb increase because it pushes the body farther away from H. in theory shorter, smaller growth cycles would be more effective as it would be easier to keep the gains and keep the body from going into negative feedback loops.

either way its extremely interesting. and your writings on hmg pharmadoc was also very interesting as a better way to increase FSH, and LH as opposed to hcg.

[428scj]

I wonder if the MIT folks that did the initial study were able to
definitively differentiate between what the AAS accomplished, how much the user actually lost out of his/her own poor habits afterwards and what the body actually does in response to achieve this predisposed fat equilibrium?

[BJJ]

Hopefully this is not a stupid question :

If I wanted to get extensive tests like this done, what reason would I give my PCP to have it done?

I don't think "Hey Doc, I am about to use some AAS, can you give me some before and after tests" will work

That is why I pay from my own pocket.