Beginner Lean bulk lowering the BF

[Vlad_]

Hello fellows, Im' thinking about getting a first cycle going, but i have a high BF(19-21%~)and would like to burn the fat while gaining some muscle too, was thinking about the "standard" beginner cycle of 12w on Test E and Dbol first 4w, but adding Var(heard good things about it on this forum) in the last 4 weeks or maybe the 8w succeding the Dbol? Let's say, 400mg Test 12w, 40mg Dbol first 4w, and 40 Var 8w? How does it sound, what would u more experienced guys change besides the "dont cycle, lose fat first, learn how eat first, grow natty" arguments(Totally right, but im young and sttuborn..). Much aprecciated andsorry for the bad english.

Almost forgot, I'm 24

[nycap]

did you already get your gear? becuase i dont think test and dbol are ideal for cutting. these two are the mass/strength kings. except for drol which is the strongest.

[Vlad_]

No, I havent bought anything yet, just doing my research first. I know, test e dbol ,are not for cutting, thtas the reason im thinking about adding var to it, also I believe when ur somewhat overweigh like myself you can lose fat even in a test+dbol cycle, granted diet is in check, at least its the conclusion I got to afetr reading so much on the site and forum.

[j4ever41]

cutting is all about diet! how tall are you? how much do you weigh? what is your training exp?

[D7M]

Hello fellows, Im' thinking about getting a first cycle going, but i have a high BF(19-21%~)and would like to burn the fat while gaining some muscle too, was thinking about the "standard" beginner cycle of 12w on Test E and Dbol first 4w, but adding Var(heard good things about it on this forum) in the last 4 weeks or maybe the 8w succeding the Dbol? Let's say, 400mg Test 12w, 40mg Dbol first 4w, and 40 Var 8w? How does it sound, what would u more experienced guys change besides the "dont cycle, lose fat first, learn how eat first, grow natty" arguments(Totally right, but im young and sttuborn..). Much aprecciated andsorry for the bad english.

Almost forgot, I'm 24

What are your other stats?

height?
weight?
years training?

If you're around 20% bf, you'd have a much better results if you cut naturally first, then ran a cycle

[nycap]

yes you can but it deosnt make sence. the dbol is going to bloat you with water. and so will the test if you take more than 200/300 mgs a week. why bloat yourself up with drugs and then fight to keep off wieght? if your set on using test and want to trim down just use one 250 test E per week.

i would recomend you trim down by dieting and execercising. if your dead set on trying something and if you already have muscel you want to keep try a low dose EQ and winny cycle. but you shouldnt need that unelss you already bulked up.

[j4ever41]

test above 300 will bloat you,where you get that?please tell me

[D7M]

yes you can but it deosnt make sence. the dbol is going to bloat you with water. and so will the test if you take more than 200/300 mgs a week. why bloat yourself up with drugs and then fight to keep off wieght? if your set on using test and want to trim down just use one 250 test E per week.

i would recomend you trim down by dieting and execercising. if your dead set on trying something and if you already have muscel you want to keep try a low dose EQ and winny cycle. but you shouldnt need that unelss you already bulked up.

terrible advice

[nycap]

so your saying he should use test and dbol to cut? and yes extra test will make the body hold water. so lets hear what you recomend for this guy?

[D7M]

so your saying he should use test and dbol to cut? and yes extra test will make the body hold water. so lets hear what you recomend for this guy?

I already gave my advice (see below).

At 20% bf, he could make TONS of progress naturally.

So, no, I wouldn't recommend a low dose test, or a winny/EQ cycle either.

If you're around 20% bf, you'd have a much better results if you cut naturally first, then ran a cycle

[j4ever41]

basically i am with d7m,i i sure would not offer any advice until op comes back with all of his stats,and as far as test bloating you how many times i got to come on here and say it all about diet,and what alot of peeps dont want to hear its diet above aas.i leave it to you fellows for now gotta go hit tha gym!

[Vlad_]

Thanks for the replies. I'm 5,74ft with 185lb, been "training" since 14y always on and off and never really caring about diet, just find out how important it is in BB recently and I'm already increasing protein drastically and eating a lot leaner and healthier food, so Im by no means in a good or muscular shape, but with the training exp I at least know what exercises brings me more results, wich ones use to hurt my tendons and joints, when its heavy, when its light etc.
Just to clarify, I'm probably cycling one way or another, so Id like to know if the cycle I presented above is going to bring me somewhere close to my expectations(decent but not great muscular growth, good fat burn). Maybe a Var only cycle? Maybe tren? I'm being all honest here and suppose I could post a few pics of me so you can have a better picture if one consider it a good idea. Thanks in advance.

[nycap]

so according to you he should not diet and exercise and he should take test and dbol to lose weight? if you believe that your retarded.

and other guy your saying that you will not any water weight by taking test as oppossed to taking nothing? and if EQ and winny dont help you get lean mass then why did james toney (pro boxer) 2 MLS players (pro soccer) and a bunch of MMA fighers get caught using it? cause its making them heavy? i dont think so.

have you guys even used this stuff?

[D7M]

Thanks for the replies. I'm 5,74ft with 185lb, been "training" since 14y always on and off and never really caring about diet, just find out how important it is in BB recently and I'm already increasing protein drastically and eating a lot leaner and healthier food, so Im by no means in a good or muscular shape, but with the training exp I at least know what exercises brings me more results, wich ones use to hurt my tendons and joints, when its heavy, when its light etc.

Just to clarify, I'm probably cycling one way or another, so Id like to know if the cycle I presented above is going to bring me somewhere close to my expectations(decent but not great muscular growth, good fat burn). Maybe a Var only cycle? Maybe tren? I'm being all honest here and suppose I could post a few pics of me so you can have a better picture if one consider it a good idea. Thanks in advance.

No, you don't want a tren only cycle.

I know you want fast results, but it really doesn't work like that.

Even with AAS, you're going to have to put alot of time in, you're going to have to learn to diet, etc.

So, once again, you'll be in a much better position to build muscle if you diet down naturally first before your cycle.

so according to you he should not diet and exercise and he should take test and dbol to lose weight? if you believe that your retarded.

and other guy your saying that you will not any water weight by taking test as oppossed to taking nothing? and if EQ and winny dont help you get lean mass then why did james toney (pro boxer) 2 MLS players (pro soccer) and a bunch of MMA fighers get caught using it? cause its making them heavy? i dont think so.

have you guys even used this stuff?

When did I ever say that?

In fact I said that he should be only focusing on diet/cardio now till he gets back in shape.

[j4ever41]

im with d7m,your LBM is probably 145-150 #, i just think you can make good progress from there bro thats all,i think you would be much happier with your cycle if you start at say10-12 %,is just good to lay a solid foundation before aas usage but like you said you gonna do it anyway,in that case i would run test @ 500 week x 12 weeks,it will help you cut as in keep you from going catabolic but its gonna be diet dependent,even tho you can recomp dont expect to be putting on a large amount of LBM but i again just think you do better to drop your BF then run,as far as nycap he likes to read peeps post the way he wants to,who gives damn who got caught or takes what! you can cut,dry out and get peeled while running long ester test if you dont think so just show you got alot learn about this.

[nycap]

dude he asked for a lean bulk cycle. not for diet and cardio advice. and hes not going to get lean bulk using test. so whos giving the bad advice here?

[j4ever41]

he is talking in his post about losing fat,which he can do on test,just like you can lean bulk on test and you can dirty bulk on test if you wish but that aint for me,idk know where you get your info from but you seem to have no idea what a proper meal plan can do!

[FireGuy]

dude he asked for a lean bulk cycle. not for diet and cardio advice. and hes not going to get lean bulk using test. so whos giving the bad advice here?

Are you implying you cant get shredded and lean if you are using test?

[Vlad_]

Damn just lost what I wrote...summarizing, J4ever, I know I should and even could get to 10-12% naturally but I also know I wont, It will prolly take 1 year or more to accomplish that and chances are I would fail as time passes... Im not relying all my goals on the drugs, quite the contrary, I'm thinking of them as shortcuts, I kinda know how to train and am studying about dieting and already implementing it on my lifestyle, your claims are not in vain lol. Im about to buy the "stuff" and it will look like this: 10w of Test E 500mg/w, 4w of Dbol 40mg/d, 6w of Var 60mg/d. How does it sound, too strong maybe? Also, is clomid and tamox enough for a pct? And finally, what would u guys recommend for calorie intake, maintenance? Thanks again for all the good will shown here.

[nycap]

youll get strong no doubt itll work. i dont know about lean but youll definatly get stong alot faster than just eating right. forget the var, waste of money.

[j4ever41]

i think you cutting yourself short there bro,have more confidence then that,get your diet right you can do it,it should not take you a year,just looking off the top you probably be looking at dropping about 20 pounds,you can do that in 3 months bro 4 at the out,also you should be able to get to 10% with no muscle or strength loss and thats doing it natty,imo opinion just run the test,yes clomid and nolva is good for your pct,you need to go to the diet forum read the stickies there and put together a meal plan post it up for critique,include your stats and what your goal is with it and peeps will help you tweek it as needed.

[nycap]

dude forget about losing weight and being shredded and all that. i play judo and jiu jitsu and ill tell you right now; those so called "shredded" guys never win. what i do is 2 shots of sustanon on monday and 2 shots on thurday and 50mg dbol befoer everyworkout. 6 weeks on 6 weeks off. you should see the air those "shreded" dudes catch on mat with me

[devilduckizer09]

dude forget about losing weight and being shredded and all that. i play judo and jiu jitsu and ill tell you right now; those so called "shredded" guys never win. what i do is 2 shots of sustanon on monday and 2 shots on thurday and 50mg dbol befoer everyworkout. 6 weeks on 6 weeks off. you should see the air those "shreded" dudes catch on mat with me

hahaha