HGH log for everyone!

[Matt]

So ive been having a chat today with a good friend, he's been running hgh now for six months and he was telling me this...

When he started at 4ius ed he would inject all 4ius after waking in the morning, about half an hour before his breakfast. He did this for 4 weeks and claimed to suffer no sides, infact he began to question his hgh and source.

He was then advised to inject his gh several hours earlier which he did, and sure enough within a few days the sides started, hands turning numb and bloat.. He is currently on 10ius ed, he sets his alarm for 2am injects 5ius goes back to sleep then wakes again and injects the remaining 5ius at 6am. I can vouch that his gains after 6 months are very good, although he is running aas along side....

So this leads me to believe that eating to soon after injecting can in some way effect the gh, in a bad way. And that once im injecting twice daily would it not be better to inject in the same way as him as apposed to early morning and then pwo?? Im thinking that the pwo injection could be effected by food which is needed pwo especially carbs....

Any thoughts on this matter?????

[babyface770]

Thats the 1st time ive seem anyone split the off days, I dont see a problem with it though so carry on. On your days off work are you able to shoot your second shot early PM?

well my hit day and off work day would only be on saturday , and sure i can hit early pm during my days off work

[Xtralarg]

@ Day 65 I started to inject hgh, 2.5 iu ed.
Today is day 104 since I started my cycle, I am running my PCT, I started to inject 10 iu ed and since a few weeks I was already injecting 4 iu ed.
I changed three different brands of somatropin, I always used a pregnancy test (negative) and my blood work shows my somatotropin levels to be higher they should be.
Also, at the end of my cycle my fat mass was around 12,5%, now I am around 10%.
I kept all of my strength, and when I say all I mean all, so I presume my LBM is still the same so I just lost some fat and the related water.

OK then, why AM I NOT FEELING ANY SIDES?

PS
I inject @ 5:30 am and then eat around 8:30 am and the second shot is 1 hour after lunch, around 3 or 3:30 pm.

I like your injection times they are perfect.

Well not everyone experiences CTS so I wouldnt worry about that, I really would of expected some kind of sides at 10iu though!

Is your sodium intake low?

Its good that you have bloods done to confirm elivated levels, peace of mind is nice when HGH is involved!

[Hazard]

So ive been having a chat today with a good friend, he's been running hgh now for six months and he was telling me this...

When he started at 4ius ed he would inject all 4ius after waking in the morning, about half an hour before his breakfast. He did this for 4 weeks and claimed to suffer no sides, infact he began to question his hgh and source.

He was then advised to inject his gh several hours earlier which he did, and sure enough within a few days the sides started, hands turning numb and bloat.. He is currently on 10ius ed, he sets his alarm for 2am injects 5ius goes back to sleep then wakes again and injects the remaining 5ius at 6am. I can vouch that his gains after 6 months are very good, although he is running aas along side....

So this leads me to believe that eating to soon after injecting can in some way effect the gh, in a bad way. And that once im injecting twice daily would it not be better to inject in the same way as him as apposed to early morning and then pwo?? Im thinking that the pwo injection could be effected by food which is needed pwo especially carbs....

Any thoughts on this matter?????

My PWO injections seem to be fine. I get done working out..... shoot 4iu's and then have a glass of grape juice to spike insulin. I then take in 50grams of protein with very very little carbs. About 60-90 mins after that.... I eat my dinner.

~Haz~

[NotSmall]

So ive been having a chat today with a good friend, he's been running hgh now for six months and he was telling me this...

When he started at 4ius ed he would inject all 4ius after waking in the morning, about half an hour before his breakfast. He did this for 4 weeks and claimed to suffer no sides, infact he began to question his hgh and source.

He was then advised to inject his gh several hours earlier which he did, and sure enough within a few days the sides started, hands turning numb and bloat.. He is currently on 10ius ed, he sets his alarm for 2am injects 5ius goes back to sleep then wakes again and injects the remaining 5ius at 6am. I can vouch that his gains after 6 months are very good, although he is running aas along side....

So this leads me to believe that eating to soon after injecting can in some way effect the gh, in a bad way. And that once im injecting twice daily would it not be better to inject in the same way as him as apposed to early morning and then pwo?? Im thinking that the pwo injection could be effected by food which is needed pwo especially carbs....

Any thoughts on this matter?????

There are ALOT of different conclusions you could jump to from this information as to what is affecting the results from his GH i.e.
1) Proximity of injections to food (as you say)
2) Time of injection - does GH work better as we sleep?
3) Proximity of injections to each other - does injecting again soon after yield better results?

The trouble is not only that all of the above are possible explanations but also you are making one MASSIVE supposition - that sides necessarily equal effectiveness.

[Matt]

Yeah and finding studies on this is almost impossible, there seem to be 100's of different views and answers when it comes to timing.....

The only studies i can find have been carried out on those that have stopped producing gh naturally, and for these of course its recommended to administer at night before bed...

There are pro bber's that recommend am and early afternoon while others go for bed time. Some say split your dose in 2/4 and others saying take all in one go...

Im now under the impression that its going to be a case of find what works best for me....

[Xtralarg]

One thing for sure is that cortisol levels are at their highest early morning so a gh shot then is optimal. As they decrease throughout the day it seems logical that a second one should be administered before they have dissapeared completely, therefore the early PM shot makes perfect sence.

[BJJ]

I like your injection times they are perfect.

Well not everyone experiences CTS so I wouldnt worry about that, I really would of expected some kind of sides at 10iu though!

Is your sodium intake low?

Its good that you have bloods done to confirm elivated levels, peace of mind is nice when HGH is involved!

Yes it is, I eat very clean and the only sodium I get is from the whole foods.
I await this week a new blood work where I checked either cortisol and hgh, as well as other values.
Again, I took the BW @ 7:30 am and I shot 5 iu @ 5:30.

If, even this BW shows my levels are elevated, then I am using somatropin for sure with this brand too.

But a question comes natural:
could it be I am injecting 192aa instead of 191aa? and this 1 too many could lead to experience no sides at all?

[babyface770]

just a question regarding side effects since we are on the topic

for example last week i was on 3 IU and i wouldn't get sides and after i upped it to 4 i started feeling the side again

but hopefully in a couple of days ill start hitting 5IU which means ill have to cut my hits into 2.5 per shot(2 times per day), so how will i feel any sides since its a small dosage ?

[Xtralarg]

Yes it is, I eat very clean and the only sodium I get is from the whole foods.
I await this week a new blood work where I checked either cortisol and hgh, as well as other values.
Again, I took the BW @ 7:30 am and I shot 5 iu @ 5:30.

If, even this BW shows my levels are elevated, then I am using somatropin for sure with this brand too.

But a question comes natural:
could it be I am injecting 192aa instead of 191aa? and this 1 too many could lead to experience no sides at all?

I doubt it, not much 192aa around these days.

How long have you been on this brand of hgh? The body takes time to build up antibodies and therefore before this happens you would still get the sides, one sign that it could be 192 aa though is if you get red welts at the injection site? Does this happen?

[Xtralarg]

just a question regarding side effects since we are on the topic

for example last week i was on 3 IU and i wouldn't get sides and after i upped it to 4 i started feeling the side again

but hopefully in a couple of days ill start hitting 5IU which means ill have to cut my hits into 2.5 per shot(2 times per day), so how will i feel any sides since its a small dosage ?

You're right you may not feel the sides, my worst time is in bed after the AM shot.

See how splitting the shots works for you.

[babyface770]

You're right you may not feel the sides, my worst time is in bed after the AM shot.

See how splitting the shots works for you.

im actually sad that i dont have a shot today

[BJJ]

I doubt it, not much 192aa around these days.

How long have you been on this brand of hgh? The body takes time to build up antibodies and therefore before this happens you would still get the sides, one sign that it could be 192 aa though is if you get red welts at the injection site? Does this happen?

I am injecting this brand since two weeks and no I never got any red welts just sometimes I feel inside my skin, in the fat layer, like a little ball after the injection. Anyway, it happens only sometimes and in a few hours it goes away.

[NotSmall]

I am injecting this brand since two weeks and no I never got any red welts just sometimes I feel inside my skin, in the fat layer, like a little ball after the injection. Anyway, it happens only sometimes and in a few hours it goes away.

Try injecting IM for a couple of days and see if you get sides then.

[BJJ]

Try injecting IM for a couple of days and see if you get sides then.

Nice idea, I did not think about that before,
I will give it a try...

Actually, I could try also intravenously and see the difference, if any.

[BJJ]

This morning I followed what reported by 007.
So, I injected @ 2 am, then @ 5:45 am and ate breakast @ 9 am.
Result: no changes.

[Matt]

This morning I followed what reported by 007.
So, I injected @ 2 am, then @ 5:45 am and ate breakast @ 9 am.
Result: no changes.

Yeah my friend that followed that protocol said it took a few days before he felt the sides...

I spent a few hours yesterday reading studies and other opinions from other web sites and im siding with the idea of early am and early pm..

It is strange how we need to feel those sides before we believe our gh is real....

[NotSmall]

I still reckon that if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent and early am / bedtime is the way to go.

Why does the body produce it then? Why do physicians prescribe it then?

Because that's when it works best.

[marcus300]

I still reckon that if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent and early am / bedtime is the way to go.

Why does the body produce it then? Why do physicians prescribe it then?

Because that's when it works best.

Ive heard this before and I wonder do you have any studies or articles relating to this theory NS?

I know GH is as a negative feedback loop but is it dose related?

[Xtralarg]

Its a shame there are no real scientific studies on the timing of HGH shots and the impact it can have. I like the idea of cortisol supression and the fact that hgh does a damm good job of doing so is enough to persuade me to keep my early am and early pm shots, for now!

I must admit that I am tempted to try bedtime shots for a while to see what impact it has on me, one concern apart from the supression and therefore loss of the big nocturnal pulse is the sides that I suffer from post shot, this really hits me hard after my AM shot (5am) when i go back to bed, sometimes my arms are so numb they keep me awake! If I suffer like this at bedtime as well as early AM then Im not going to be getting enough sleep!!

[babyface770]

1 mg is 3IU or 2.7 ?

i do my shots according to 1mg =3

[babyface770]

1 mg is 3IU or 2.7 ?

i do my shots according to 1mg =3

[NotSmall]

Ive heard this before and I wonder do you have any studies or articles relating to this theory NS?

No but it just makes logical sense to me that we mimic what our bodies do - if GH worked best in the daytime then wouldn't our bodies produce the biggest pulse then?

I know GH is as a negative feedback loop but is it dose related?

I'm not sure but I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant when I said "if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent" - I didn't mean that once you are on that high a dose that the night time pulse stops anyway, I simply meant that once you are running those kind of dosages then the amount that our bodies produces naturally at night becomes miniscule in comparison whereas it is a proportionally bigger advantage if you are running say 4 or 5 ius - does that make sense?

[marcus300]

No but it just makes logical sense to me that we mimic what our bodies do - if GH worked best in the daytime then wouldn't our bodies produce the biggest pulse then?


I'm not sure but I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant when I said "if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent" - I didn't mean that once you are on that high a dose that the night time pulse stops anyway, I simply meant that once you are running those kind of dosages then the amount that our bodies produces naturally at night becomes miniscule in comparison whereas it is a proportionally bigger advantage if you are running say 4 or 5 ius - does that make sense?

Wouldnt you be better off keeping the natural high dose at night and running the 8ius split into 2 shots during the day so it only effects the lower pulses of gh rather than the higher one at night?

Its a shame we cant find any artices or studies relating to dose and timming, is this your own theory NS or is it something you have discussed with other members?

[NotSmall]

Wouldnt you be better off keeping the natural high dose at night and running the 8ius split into 2 shots during the day so it only effects the lower pulses of gh rather than the higher one at night?

Its a shame we cant find any artices or studies relating to dose and timming, is this your own theory NS or is it something you have discussed with other members?

Well this is all hypothetical but what if GH was 10 times as effective at night? Do you want your natural pulse of 1iu or whatever it is in your system or do you want 4ius?

It's certainly not my idea but it just makes sense to me:
- Our bodies produce it at night
- Physicians prescribe it at night
- We do most of our growing at night
So it seems to me that the best time to have a big influx of GH is at night.

I do not have any figures as to what our normal daily GH production is (if anyone does please post 'em up) but I theorise that if HRT guys see a tremendous result from running 2iu ed then it is probably around that ballpark so lets assume that HALF of that is in the night time pulse, so 1iu, like I said - if you're only running 2-4ius then sure you wanna preserve the night time pulse but if my theory is correct and GH works alot better at night then personally I'd rather have 4 or 5ius floating around rather than fretting about the 1iu of natural GH that I was losing.

^ Obviously much of the above is theoretical but it's the best way I can describe my thinking.

[marcus300]

Well this is all hypothetical but what if GH was 10 times as effective at night? Do you want your natural pulse of 1iu or whatever it is in your system or do you want 4ius?

It's certainly not my idea but it just makes sense to me:
- Our bodies produce it at night
- Physicians prescribe it at night
- We do most of our growing at night
So it seems to me that the best time to have a big influx of GH is at night.

I do not have any figures as to what our normal daily GH production is (if anyone does please post 'em up) but I theorise that if HRT guys see a tremendous result from running 2iu ed then it is probably around that ballpark so lets assume that HALF of that is in the night time pulse, so 1iu, like I said - if you're only running 2-4ius then sure you wanna preserve the night time pulse but if my theory is correct and GH works alot better at night then personally I'd rather have 4 or 5ius floating around rather than fretting about the 1iu of natural GH that I was losing.

^ Obviously much of the above is theoretical but it's the best way I can describe my thinking.

I can see the way your thinking, ive done a couple of checks and from the papers I can find here are some average HGH secretion levels:

At 20 years old we average 500 micrograms/day
At 40 years old we average 200 micrograms/day
At 80 years old we average 25 micrograms/day

so with that conversion it looks like we produce alot more than what your thinking we do, or I should say if your under 40yrs old


How long have you been pinning at night?

[NotSmall]

I can see the way your thinking, ive done a couple of checks and from the papers I can find here are some average HGH secretion levels:

At 20 years old we average 500 micrograms/day
At 40 years old we average 200 micrograms/day
At 80 years old we average 25 micrograms/day

so with that conversion it looks like we produce alot more than what your thinking we do, or I should say if your under 40yrs old


How long have you been pinning at night?

You sure bud?

I thought 1mg = roughly 3iu

That being the case that table would indicate that we secrete:
1.5 iu at 20 yrs old
0.6 iu at 40 yrs old
0.075 iu at 80 yrs old

Which would kinda support my theory.

[NotSmall]

Oh and I've been pinning at night for about 6 months now.

[marcus300]

You sure bud?

I thought 1mg = roughly 3iu

That being the case that table would indicate that we secrete:
1.5 iu at 20 yrs old
0.6 iu at 40 yrs old
0.075 iu at 80 yrs old

Which would kinda support my theory.

what conversion are you using mircogram to iu?

An IU is dependent upon the substance. There is no universal conversion the one I took it from was gh conversion, i will see if i can find it again.

[NotSmall]

what conversion are you using mircogram to iu?

Well I think I'm right in saying that 1mg = 2.7iu so lets just call it 3iu to be generous and make the maths easier.

1mg = 3iu
1mg = 1000mcg
1000mcg = 3iu
1mcg = 0.003iu

[marcus300]

Well I think I'm right in saying that 1mg = 2.7iu so lets just call it 3iu to be generous and make the maths easier.

1mg = 3iu
1mg = 1000mcg
1000mcg = 3iu
1mcg = 0.003iu

But isnt the conversion from mircogram to iu of gh different because an IU is dependent upon the substance. There is no universal conversion?

[NotSmall]

But isnt the conversion from mircogram to iu of gh different because an IU is dependent upon the substance. There is no universal conversion?

There is no universal conversion of mg to iu no, it varies from substance to substance like you say but with GH I believe I am correct that 1mg = around 2.7iu.

[marcus300]

There is no universal conversion of mg to iu no, it varies from substance to substance like you say but with GH I believe I am correct that 1mg = around 2.7iu.

Yes thats right 1mg - 2.7ius, but I calculated it from microgram to iu when dealing with gh, ive got that many conversion tables open now its doing my head in lol.
If we do only produce that small amount daily your theory does look good, ie follow the bodys own pattern and inject more when we are sleeping, it looks like its working on you NS do you have a time plan on how long your going to run it for?

[Xtralarg]

Young adolescents secrete HGH at the rate of about 700 μg/day, while healthy adults secrete HGH at the rate of about 400 μg/day.

1mg = 3iu
700ug = .7mg
.7mg = 2.1iu This is how much HGH an adolescent secretes in a day
.4mg = 1.2iu This is how much HGH an adult secretes in a day

(Gardner, David G., Shoback, Dolores (2007). Greenspan's Basic and Clinical Endocrinology (8th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 193–201. ISBN 0-07-144011-9.)

[marcus300]

Young adolescents secrete HGH at the rate of about 700 μg/day, while healthy adults secrete HGH at the rate of about 400 μg/day.

1mg = 3iu
700ug = .7mg
.7mg = 2.1iu This is how much HGH an adolescent secretes in a day
.4mg = 1.2iu This is how much HGH an adult secretes in a day

(Gardner, David G., Shoback, Dolores (2007). Greenspan's Basic and Clinical Endocrinology (8th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 193–201. ISBN 0-07-144011-9.)

Thanks XL,

[Xtralarg]

Thanks XL,

Thanks to everyone who posts on this thread

[NotSmall]

Yes thats right 1mg - 2.7ius, but I calculated it from microgram to iu when dealing with gh, ive got that many conversion tables open now its doing my head in lol.
If we do only produce that small amount daily your theory does look good, ie follow the bodys own pattern and inject more when we are sleeping, it looks like its working on you NS do you have a time plan on how long your going to run it for?

Yeah looking at that table it does kinda seem that there is not a lot of point worrying about disrupting the sacred night time pulse eh? I mean for arguments sake if that pulse was HALF of your total daily GH production then even at 20 yrs old you are only talking about 0.75iu - hardly worth worrying about!

Thanks bud - yeah it seems to be working for me at the moment - I have stocks to continue at 10iu ed for another 5 months but plan to stay on indefinitely really. My plan is to run a couple more heavy AAS cycles then just stay on test & GH forever to maintain, we all know that will never happen, lol, but that's the plan!

[marcus300]

Yeah looking at that table it does kinda seem that there is not a lot of point worrying about disrupting the sacred night time pulse eh? I mean for arguments sake if that pulse was HALF of your total daily GH production then even at 20 yrs old you are only talking about 0.75iu - hardly worth worrying about!

Thanks bud - yeah it seems to be working for me at the moment - I have stocks to continue at 10iu ed for another 5 months but plan to stay on indefinitely really. My plan is to run a couple more heavy AAS cycles then just stay on test & GH forever to maintain, we all know that will never happen, lol, but that's the plan!

I can really see where your coming from with this and ive done in the past high dose gh along side a burst cycle with amazing results and i was on so much I had to shoot at night 3x daily and I didnt see or feel any difference than day time shots but let me throw this at you,
So on the flip side on things on your theory and I am thinking out loud here, the body produces gh in pulses and the higher amount during the night while in REM, would there be some reasoning that the body can only utilize so much at once?

[NotSmall]

Young adolescents secrete HGH at the rate of about 700 μg/day, while healthy adults secrete HGH at the rate of about 400 μg/day.

1mg = 3iu
700ug = .7mg
.7mg = 2.1iu This is how much HGH an adolescent secretes in a day
.4mg = 1.2iu This is how much HGH an adult secretes in a day

(Gardner, David G., Shoback, Dolores (2007). Greenspan's Basic and Clinical Endocrinology (8th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 193–201. ISBN 0-07-144011-9.)

Very similar figures again, using 1mg = 2.7iu makes it adolescent: 1.89iu, adult: 1.08iu so I would still suggest that all the fuss about not disrupting the night time pulse is largely unwarranted.

If it is the case, as I believe, that GH is more effective at night then most users are injecting the bulk of their expensive GH in the daytime when it is less effective in order to preserve a comparatively miniscule amount of natural GH at night.

[NotSmall]

I can really see where your coming from with this and ive done in the past high dose gh along side a burst cycle with amazing results and i was on so much I had to shoot at night 3x daily and I didnt see or feel any difference than day time shots but let me throw this at you,
So on the flip side on things on your theory and I am thinking out loud here, the body produces gh in pulses and the higher amount during the night while in REM, would there be some reasoning that the body can only utilize so much at once?

I am sure that is the case but I am also sure that the body can utilise ALOT more than it produces - how much more though is pretty hard to say.

With the 10ius I am running now it is easily possible that I would get better results from 5 injections of 2iu rather than 5iu at bedtime and 5iu on waking but what with work and wanting to avoid shooting GH while blood sugar is elevated you have to compromise between the ideal and what is actually practical.