Carcinogenic effects of Nolva and Clomid worrying me

[Swifto]

Yeah stop using Clomid and Tamoxifen (FDA approved and been studied for over 15-20 years) and start using bullshit herbs to raise endogenous testosterone.

Start using the author's of 'The Dark Side of SERMs' PCT. For a start the main ingredient i a f*cking anti-androgen, but thats not listed in his article, nor the write up is it?

Why would you stop using Tamoxifen or Clomid. Did you read the many references in that article.

Eric made the jump because Tamoxifen MAY cause cancer in the female endometrium, it would also cause cancer of the prostate. What the f*ck? How can you come to such a conclusion. Tamoxifen and Toremifene have showed promising posiitve effects in REDUCING cancer in prostate cells due to the ER-beta subtype Tamoxifen and Tore both increase expression.

He then states Tamoxifen will increase progesteorne receptor expression in male breast tissue, another foolish statement. He backs up the statement with 2-3 studies on WOMEN's ENDOMETRIUM (uterus). Which is a tissue sensitive to estrogen (agonist). How the f*ck does that translate to the male breast. Anwer: It doesnt. The actual data on healthy, male breasts shows a downregulation in estrogen and progesterone. NOT upregulation.

The many studies are also outdated. Clomid has been used on hypogondal mles showing NO adverse side effects in studies lasting YEARS.

Yeah, there are now better alternatives to Tamox and Clomid, such as, Tore and Rolax. But Tamox is still king of the ring when it comes to HPTA restoration.

Read the references, dont read a statement with a (3) next to it and take it as fact.

[stevey_6t9]

Yeah stop using Clomid and Tamoxifen (FDA approved and been studied for over 15-20 years) and start using bullshit herbs to raise endogenous testosterone.

Start using the author's of 'The Dark Side of SERMs' PCT. For a start the main ingredient i a f*cking anti-androgen, but thats not listed in his article, nor the write up is it?

Why would you stop using Tamoxifen or Clomid. Did you read the many references in that article.

Eric made the jump because Tamoxifen MAY cause cancer in the female endometrium, it would also cause cancer of the prostate. What the f*ck? How can you come to such a conclusion. Tamoxifen and Toremifene have showed promising posiitve effects in REDUCING cancer in prostate cells due to the ER-beta subtype Tamoxifen and Tore both increase expression.

He then states Tamoxifen will increase progesteorne receptor expression in male breast tissue, another foolish statement. He backs up the statement with 2-3 studies on WOMEN's ENDOMETRIUM (uterus). Which is a tissue sensitive to estrogen (agonist). How the f*ck does that translate to the male breast. Anwer: It doesnt. The actual data on healthy, male breasts shows a downregulation in estrogen and progesterone. NOT upregulation.

The many studies are also outdated. Clomid has been used on hypogondal mles showing NO adverse side effects in studies lasting YEARS.

Yeah, there are now better alternatives to Tamox and Clomid, such as, Tore and Rolax. But Tamox is still king of the ring when it comes to HPTA restoration.

Read the references, dont read a statement with a (3) next to it and take it as fact.

Just because something is "FDA" approved that it has a proven safety profile. The FDA has continually issued stronger health warnings for Tamoxifen over the years. For instance, in 1994 the FDA demanded that the Tamoxifen manufacturer Zeneca (an ICI sub-division), issue warning letters to health care practitioners about the increased risk of endometrial and gastro-intestinal cancers with Tamoxifen use.

----------------
liver cancer

It was soon discovered that the hepatotoxic effects from Tamoxifen stem from the metabolism and buildup of the a-hydroxytamoxifen and N-desmethyltamoxifen metabolites, which would only appear in an in vivo environment. Surely enough, the results from the original rat studies showing dramatic carcinogenic effects on the liver, soon correlated with human data when researchers found the same type of liver DNA adducts in Tamoxifen patients.

--------------------
Genotoxicity

It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that Tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It has been found that Tamoxifen binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell, causing a cancerous mutation to take place. Even Australia's conservative National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) warned that no amount of Tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.

[Swifto]

Just because something is "FDA" approved that it has a proven safety profile. The FDA has continually issued stronger health warnings for Tamoxifen over the years. For instance, in 1994 the FDA demanded that the Tamoxifen manufacturer Zeneca (an ICI sub-division), issue warning letters to health care practitioners about the increased risk of endometrial and gastro-intestinal cancers with Tamoxifen use.

----------------
liver cancer

It was soon discovered that the hepatotoxic effects from Tamoxifen stem from the metabolism and buildup of the a-hydroxytamoxifen and N-desmethyltamoxifen metabolites, which would only appear in an in vivo environment. Surely enough, the results from the original rat studies showing dramatic carcinogenic effects on the liver, soon correlated with human data when researchers found the same type of liver DNA adducts in Tamoxifen patients.

--------------------
Genotoxicity

It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that Tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It has been found that Tamoxifen binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell, causing a cancerous mutation to take place. Even Australia's conservative National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) warned that no amount of Tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.

A copy and paste from the article. I've read it and some of the references listed.

I'll ask you again,

Why do you run AAS and increase estrogen (E1, E2) when its also a potent carcinogen for the length of your cycle?

Have you used Anadrol?

If you want to stay away from carcinogen's, I'd stay the f*ck away from AAS.

Do you smoke of have you ever?

[terraj]

A copy and paste from the article. I've read it and some of the references listed.

I'll ask you again,

Why do you run AAS and increase estrogen (E1, E2) when its also a potent carcinogen for the length of your cycle?

Have you used Anadrol?

If you want to stay away from carcinogen's, I'd stay the f*ck away from AAS.

Do you smoke of have you ever?

Stevey....a 19 year old kid who is doing steriods, who is now worried about the health issues of PCT.... thats odd

[stevey_6t9]

Stevey....a 19 year old kid who is doing steriods, who is now worried about the health issues of PCT.... thats odd

wow way to ruin an interesting thread...if u dont have anything constructive to say dont post anything you clown

[Swifto]

I know about the e2 being a carcinogen but it can be easily controlled on cycle.

Never tried drol, i know alot of aas are hepatotoxic but i dont know about genotoxic??

Not all the time it cant. Compunds such as Anadrol will interect with the ER even though it does not atomotase. There there is HCG directly increasing testicular E2.

Stevey....a 19 year old kid who is doing steriods, who is now worried about the health issues of PCT.... thats odd

Well there we are then.

wow way to ruin an interesting thread...if u dont have anything constructive to say dont post anything you clown

I dont think I have to explain the Rules to you stevey, or do I?

[stevey_6t9]

Not all the time it cant. Compunds such as Anadrol will interect with the ER even though it does not atomotase. There there is HCG directly increasing testicular E2.



Well there we are then.



I dont think I have to explain the Rules to you stevey, or do I?

Is E2 considered a carcinogen directly or only when it binds to certain ER on the body?

what about using another compound which will compete for the ER, could that work?

And you dont need to explain the rules i understand them, just that some people stick their opinions with no relevance to the given subject in an attempt of a sly insulting way.

[Vitruvian-Man]

Stevey....a 19 year old kid who is doing steriods, who is now worried about the health issues of PCT.... thats odd

I was biting my tongue for the entire thread.

Thank you.

... I mean realistically Stevey give the AI/HCG pct a go if you'd like. My first cycle composed of an AI pct. You'll soon understand why people generally stick to the tried and true method though.

-VM

[stevey_6t9]

A copy and paste from the article. I've read it and some of the references listed.

I'll ask you again,

Why do you run AAS and increase estrogen (E1, E2) when its also a potent carcinogen for the length of your cycle?

Have you used Anadrol?

If you want to stay away from carcinogen's, I'd stay the f*ck away from AAS.

Do you smoke of have you ever?

I know about the e2 being a carcinogen but it can be easily controlled on cycle.

Never tried drol, i know alot of aas are hepatotoxic but i dont know about genotoxic??

[Noles12]

Yeah stop using Clomid and Tamoxifen (FDA approved and been studied for over 15-20 years) and start using bullshit herbs to raise endogenous testosterone.

Start using the author's of 'The Dark Side of SERMs' PCT. For a start the main ingredient i a f*cking anti-androgen, but thats not listed in his article, nor the write up is it?

Why would you stop using Tamoxifen or Clomid. Did you read the many references in that article.

Eric made the jump because Tamoxifen MAY cause cancer in the female endometrium, it would also cause cancer of the prostate. What the f*ck? How can you come to such a conclusion. Tamoxifen and Toremifene have showed promising posiitve effects in REDUCING cancer in prostate cells due to the ER-beta subtype Tamoxifen and Tore both increase expression.

He then states Tamoxifen will increase progesteorne receptor expression in male breast tissue, another foolish statement. He backs up the statement with 2-3 studies on WOMEN's ENDOMETRIUM (uterus). Which is a tissue sensitive to estrogen (agonist). How the f*ck does that translate to the male breast. Anwer: It doesnt. The actual data on healthy, male breasts shows a downregulation in estrogen and progesterone. NOT upregulation.

The many studies are also outdated. Clomid has been used on hypogondal mles showing NO adverse side effects in studies lasting YEARS.

Yeah, there are now better alternatives to Tamox and Clomid, such as, Tore and Rolax. But Tamox is still king of the ring when it comes to HPTA restoration.

Read the references, dont read a statement with a (3) next to it and take it as fact.

Im glad someone pointed out the fact that Nolva is used in female cancer patients