Let The Flaming Begin!

[marcus300]

I am not saying he runs tren deca compounds with no effect on his test, because he doesn't run those at all. but he does run winny, dbol, all kinds of ph and he has run 2 cycles with no pct and no drop in sex drive when he comes off or anything. I am not making this up. He is my best friend and I have monitored him 100% of the way. In fairness he has never gotten bloodwork done but his sex drive has always remained constant and he nevers shows any signs of low test ever. He might be an exception to the rule but I am saying that it is possible. I have also advised him never to run long cycles, and to ease into the dosage rather than jumping into it. I have also said to stop taking anything at the first sign of trouble and keep all pcts on hand just in case. Only time there was ever a slight issue was when he started to develop gyno (nipple tenderness), but he lowered the dose immediately and it disappeared.

As for the rest of the post, I agree that you cannot run compounds indefinitely without a shut down, and I agree it is dose dependent. I am just suggesting that a low dose run for a short time can produce gains with a much less of an effect on testosterone. I think someone had a log on this board of an equipoise only cycle, and it turned out ok. I didn't follow it though so I don't remember.

But why could you not run a low dose of a pct compound to keep from shutting down? Again, I don't know about all this stuff so I am asking to further my knowledge. Just seems that some hcg during a 3-4week dbol cycle wouldn't hurt but idk.

Exactly, your friend doesn't have bloodwork done so its impossible for you to say its doesn't effect his natural testosterone, going off your sex drive just isnt going make me believe he is unique and can still produce natural testosterone while taking any huge amounts of steroid/PH.

HCG will mimic LH in the testes which should result in an increase in endogenous testosterone which will hopefully prevent testicular dysfunction and atrophy, in many cases this will aid recovery of your HPTA, but while the body is being exposed to exogenous testosterone your HPTA will not recover full function thus wont release LH. Using HCG is a great way of prevention of any testicular dysfunction and increases the chances of recovery, but its not going to stop your HPTA from shutting down.

I also didn't say run cycle indefinitely, i said if you run enough of the compound for a long enough time you can shut down your natural testosterone. The example was the var study I mentioned ( again with every study there is a contradicting one) which if i remembered correctly within 5 days of low dose it will nearly half your natural testosterone, I will search my data base and send it to you, it will make interesting reading but again, ive seen the complete opposite regarding studies and shutdown of var so take what you please from studies!!

Please dont get me started on eq,

Please dont take this the wrong way because i am trying to answer your questions, but from the looks of things all you need is a good few meals down your neck and that will prodcue far more muscle without the side of any low dose steroids.

[Twist]

Exactly, your friend doesn't have bloodwork done so its impossible for you to say its doesn't effect his natural testosterone, going off your sex drive just isnt going make me believe he is unique and can still produce natural testosterone while taking any huge amounts of steroid/PH.
you are right, it is impossible to say. He is not unique, just a little different than say, me. If I were to take anything without test I would have no test at all (bloodwork to support it). You keep on saying huge, and I keep on saying low. Can you see the difference in our posts?

HCG will mimic LH in the testes which should result in an increase in endogenous testosterone which will hopefully prevent testicular dysfunction and atrophy, in many cases this will aid recovery of your HPTA, but while the body is being exposed to exogenous testosterone your HPTA will not recover full function thus wont release LH. Using HCG is a great way of prevention of any testicular dysfunction and increases the chances of recovery, but its not going to stop your HPTA from shutting down.
We are not talking about exposing the body to exogenous testosterone (right? dbol, eq etc but no test). I see the similarity and how they both will shut you down, some more than others, but would a compound like hcg shot 1-2 times (for example, idk the hcg protocol) during the 4 week duration of say a dbol only cycle not help at all?

I also didn't say run cycle indefinitely, i said if you run enough of the compound for a long enough time you can shut down your natural testosterone. The example was the var study I mentioned ( again with every study there is a contradicting one) which if i remembered correctly within 5 days of low dose it will nearly half your natural testosterone, I will search my data base and send it to you, it will make interesting reading but again, ive seen the complete opposite regarding studies and shutdown of var so take what you please from studies!!
I see the problem we come across with the contradicting studies. I would most likely fall into the "shut down after 5 days" and my buddy would fall into the "not shut down at all, or not much" category. I am advocating finding out which one of these individuals you are. If you are one of the shut down after 5 days individuals, your cycles should have a test base; if you are not, it may be possible to run cycles at low doses for short durations without needing a test base.

Please dont get me started on eq, I won't because that is not the point of the discussion

Please dont take this the wrong way because i am trying to answer your questions, but from the looks of things all you need is a good few meals down your neck and that will produce far more muscle without the side of any low dose steroids.rude and completely off topic

Why do you people think I am planning on taking low doses of anything? I am on trt, do you not know what that means? I am simply asking for information regarding the recommendation that vets, and their followers, make to everyone who wants to run a cycle. I am simply questioning the rationale for this.

The question is, for those who seem to miss it:
Why is it necessary to tell people that the only way to go is a cycle including testosterone? The risks are the same on low dosed cycles without test, as they are on cycles with test, the only difference appears to lie in gains (worse in low doses) and in sides/lasting negative effects (test cycle loses) and in time needed in pct (kind of a toss up, but probably test cycle loses because of the duration and compounds used, unless it is very short esters run for a short period, in which it is more equal).

As marcus stated, a good reason for not doing dbol or eq or anavar etc, is because the risks could far outweigh any minimal gains you may see from the low dosed cycle.