Thyroid Panel Results...thanks for any input!

[SlimmerMe]

ANY HELP woud really be appreciated! THANKS, SlimmerMe

Thyroid Panel Results:

TSH: January.... 3.570........April..... .0.638........Sept.........5.890 reference (450-4.500)
T-4: January..... 1.00...........April.......0.86.........Sept.........0.61 reference (.82-1.77)
T-3: January..... 2.7...........April.......3.1...........Sept.........2.6 reference (2.0-4.4)

Reverse T-3.................................................. .Sept........131 reference (90-350)

TPO : Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies.....................September......97 reference (0-34)

[Vettester]

Slimmer, some of the articles I've have read on elevated TPO levels suggests autoimmune disorders could possibly be the cause. I believe one of our members, Durak, had a situation (autoimmune) like this about 6 or 7 months ago, but not exactly positive what the cause of it was.

I hope your doctor is all over this! What does your doctor want to do next? I wish I could offer more help.

[SlimmerMe]

Thanks Vetteman ....what are your thoughts on the TSH level being 5.890 ???

[Vettester]

Slimmer, at a glance, the elevated TSH might indicate hypothyroidism, or an under active thyroid. As you know, TSH is produced in the pituitary gland and works on a feedback loop with the thyroid. Your T4 score indicates the same thing, hypothyroidism. So, that part makes sense ... The thyroid is under active, this sends a signal to increase the amount of TSH. If your T3, T4 were normal, and your TSH was still elevated, then you might be looking at the pituitary function. Luckily, at least at this angle, that doesn't seem to be the case, but let your doctor review it tooth and nail to make sure.

The TSH & T3-T4 activity/feedback pretty much makes sense, but the TPO enzymes are what's puzzling me. Hoping your doctor can pinpoint the reason for this. Hang in there and stay positive! Let us know what the doctor thinks. I'm sure you'll be giving us a good prognosis real soon.

[Vettester]

BTW, I like the pirate hat! I wonder if I can do the same for my Avi??

[SlimmerMe]

Slimmer, at a glance, the elevated TSH might indicate hypothyroidism, or an under active thyroid. As you know, TSH is produced in the pituitary gland and works on a feedback loop with the thyroid. Your T4 score indicates the same thing, hypothyroidism. So, that part makes sense ... The thyroid is under active, this sends a signal to increase the amount of TSH. If your T3, T4 were normal, and your TSH was still elevated, then you might be looking at the pituitary function. Luckily, at least at this angle, that doesn't seem to be the case, but let your doctor review it tooth and nail to make sure.

The TSH & T3-T4 activity/feedback pretty much makes sense, but the TPO enzymes are what's puzzling me. Hoping your doctor can pinpoint the reason for this. Hang in there and stay positive! Let us know what the doctor thinks. I'm sure you'll be giving us a good prognosis real soon.

THANK YOU AGAIN VETTEMAN for all of your help! So...to get my mind straight on this BW..if the TSH level is high, then the thyroid is low...therefore more Armour needed to help balance/correct this....It always confuses me that the number is high yet indicates low....hope this makes sense...please correct me if I am wrong....Thanks so much for your continued help.....

[Vettester]

Yes, your thinking is correct. High TSH can possibly mean that the thyroid is under active. However, it could also mean other things like a pituitary disorder "IF" everything checks out OK with the thyroid. In your case it looks like the thyroid is the culprit.

[SlimmerMe]

THANKS! Great! Good to know that high TSH possibly means under active thyroid. Now I need to figure out what the next step is.
For someone like myself who did not like school one bit, I sure do love all of this constant info!

[Vettester]

I'd love to find away to make it to medical school. I went back for Computer Science and IT in my 30's, but it's a whole different game for med school and aiming to be a endocrinologist. Maybe there's a scholarship from AR? When I started doing my own research when I got diagnosed with hypo, I realized this is a viable, healthy industry that just needs knowledge, consistency, and effective therapies designed to treat the patient. Anyways, just a daydream in my 40's at this point.

[SlimmerMe]

Perhaps there are a lot of closet doctors here in the AR? the type of docs who used to do home visits? I agree...med school would be something interesting to do now...

[forrest_and_trees]

Hey Slimmer,

I take it from your reply that you're "already" on Armour? How much are you taking and when and how do you take it? Also, how long have you been on it?

[SlimmerMe]

90mgs of armour..since April ..started combo of Syntroid and Cytomel in January ( after years of just Syntroid) and switched to Armour in April.....
take it in the AM but sometimes I take it in wee hours of the AM then go back to sleep....all on empty stomach..no eating near dose....I also itch too which I am wondering if it is the Armour.....I know this Armour is reformlated but I have no comparison to the original...also I know you switched so I will be open to any ideas...I am shocked with this news that I am TPO positive which scares me...do you know anything about this? TPO??? thanks ForrestTrees!

[forrest_and_trees]

90mg - So i believe that's 1.5 grains? Was that your starting dose? Is that how much Synth you were taking? [90mg] Do you swallow the Armour whole?

I'm not familiar with TPO, that's new to me. It hasn't come up til now. I'll have to look into it some.

Aside from your numbers, how about your symptoms? When it comes to thyroid, the numbers can only tell so much of the story. It's mostly about how you feel. Have you had much improvement in how you feel since you began taking thyroid meds? Did you notice any diff in the Synth vs Armour or are you mainly going on your numbers? One last question. You listed your stats over time, would you mind indicating which med you were on when and at what dosage?

Thanks,

F/T

[SlimmerMe]

Swallow Armour..I tried the under the tongue and it takes forever ( reformulated complaint I understand) and my Synthroid was 125mgs and how do I feel? This is hard to tell. I went cold turkey on everything except the Armour just a few weeks ago. I admit I am more irritable and more anxiety and less patience and still wired up at night with a second wind which has been the case for a long time no matter what I do..but.. But the anxiety and mood could be from withdrawals from the HGH and BHRT...since when I was on HGH and BHRT I stayed in a good mood but kept gaining weight yet it didn't bother me until I realized that I was turning into a moose by not fitting into anything yet eating better in my life plus cardio and personal trainer..so....I had to make an executive decision..gain more weight and be happy or be anxious and hopefully lose the weight I had gained since starting all of this.....I do think the DHEA and test with the HGH helped to pack it on...I would be a great BB contender.

Meds before cold turkey:

HGH averaging 1-1.5 units ED

BHRT: compounded cream: Everyday
Estrogen: Estriol and Estradial: 6 mgs
Progesterone: 25 mgs and 100 capsule at night
Testosterone: 6 mgs
DHEA: 35 mgs

Melatonin: 3-6mgs at bedtime

Hope this helps! THANKS SO MUCH!

[forrest_and_trees]

Two things come to mind. First is I would get a pill crusher and start crushing your Armour. They're available at any drug store. Then it will dissolve much more quickly and easily under your tongue. *Many* people [myself included] have an improved reaction to the new formulation when doing it that way. Something to do with absorbing the meds directly into you blood stream vs how it reacts to the acids in your stomach; which actually breaks down the med.

Secondly, how did you arrive at your thyroid med dosage? Did you start small and bump it up over time or is that the dose you were originally prescribed? I'm just wondering if you're getting the necessary amount of meds. Even if 125mg of Synth was right for you, at 90mg [1.5 grains] of Armour, you're 25% *down* from where you were on Synth. Yes I know that Armour contains T3 which is several times more potent than the straight T4 found in the Synth but in some cases, people have had to increase their meds with the Armour to get the desired effect.

It's best to slowly bump your thyroid meds little by little over time until you *feel* good. i.e bump it a little, wait 2-3 weeks a see how you feel. If you get to the point of feeling too wired or having heart palpitations then you know you've gone too high and you back off some.

I recommend getting a pill splitter and cutting your Armour however is necessary to add half a grain for 2-3 weeks and see how you feel. The prob with treating thyroid is you really cant go on numbers, that only accounts for maybe 40% of it. The rest is how you feel.

As an example, my doc started me on .75mg of synth. Over time I go that up to 200mg and was feeling OK but still had several of the Hypo symptoms which were not responding to Synth. That's when I switched to a "natural" thyroid med, [such as Armour]. I started at 2.5 grains [180mg] and that was not cutting it. I'm now taking 4.5 grains, [270mg] and that seems to be working for me.

[SlimmerMe]

^^^Armour pill crushing and spitting and upping dose bit by bit....I will try this! hey you never know how or why something works! so again Forrest, thank you.

[forrest_and_trees]

FYI- the Armour can be a little chalky as I'm sure you know. Some people add a little sugar or honey to help ease it down. Personally I have sublingual B12 I get from Trader Joe's that are glucose based; so they melt real easily under your tongue. I add it to the Naturthroid [Generic Armour] in the grinder. I find it helps to take a swig of water just before taking the ground pills. The key is try not to swallow; you want as much as possible to "melt" in your mouth. Best of luck, I hope it works for you.

P.S. I've personally noticed when I get my thyroid meds dialed in, my hunger naturally goes down. I eat even less than usual and I begin to lose weight...slowly... but loosing none the less. ...Which is better than before I began HRT; when I'd gain weight no matter how little I ate.

[SlimmerMe]

You know I just remembered: when I got my Armour I did put it under my tongue when I went to bed and it did take hours to absorb ...and my BW showed that at that time my levels were actually better....I will try this tonight again...so thanks for staying on top of me with this!

[PPC]

I replied via pm, should have done it here I guess. Some really have trouble with the new formulated armour and get better results with erfa.

Wow, your doc had you on pretty high doses of all hormones, your bi-est was pretty intense at 6 mg and your T was about the highest prescribed for females.

Itching...is this new or did you have it when you were on bi-est. It is often one of the first signs of low estradiol.

As I mentioned in the pm, your thyroid numbers going the wrong way may have been one of the biggest reasons for the weight problems of late. It might come down to considering the need for HC to support the adrenals so your thyroid meds can actually do the job they need to do. But that's a delicate balancing act. Have you ever had a morning serum cortisol level taken or a 4X daily saliva cortisol test done?

[SlimmerMe]

I replied via pm, should have done it here I guess. Some really have trouble with the new formulated armour and get better results with erfa.

Wow, your doc had you on pretty high doses of all hormones, your bi-est was pretty intense at 6 mg and your T was about the highest prescribed for females.

Itching...is this new or did you have it when you were on bi-est. It is often one of the first signs of low estradiol.

As I mentioned in the pm, your thyroid numbers going the wrong way may have been one of the biggest reasons for the weight problems of late. It might come down to considering the need for HC to support the adrenals so your thyroid meds can actually do the job they need to do. But that's a delicate balancing act. Have you ever had a morning serum cortisol level taken or a 4X daily saliva cortisol test done?

Just saw your PM..thanks!..yes I agree a high dose of Biest and test plus the DHEA especially since my DHEA BW was already high..
Itching? I have read could be taking T-3 actually which I hope is not the case..I am changing soaps tonight to rule that out!
I did have a cortisol saliva test....I will get those results in the mail...
my
keys
are
sticking!
no
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THANKS!

[kickboxer206]

Hello, did you guys ever find a cause for your thyroid hormones being off? I'm currently dealing with a similar situation, however, my thyroid hormones are all normal, but my tpo-antibodies are slightly high; fluctuating from 150-250. After 6 months i final got cortisol test that showed at 1 pm i was slightly low; at a level 5. I understand that cortisol and thyroid work together and if one is off, it could throw the other off.

Ive been working with my military doctor to find out the cause of these abnormalities, and zero in on the symptoms i am having; inability to do strenuous exercise, panic attack like symptoms like difficulty breathing and irregular heartbeat, pupils can hold a contraction when i exert myself, ect. At first I was told it was an auto-immune response that hasn't caused a defect in my thyroid hormone levels, then I was told 20% of people have tpo-antibodies and its just anxiety. Prior to these symptoms, I was in excellent shape, ran 5 days a week alternating between sprints and 3 mile runs at a 6 min mile. 1.5 miles swims. 100 pullups 500 pushups, 600 situps, + wieghts in the afternoon + kickboxing training. Prior to this i did, I did a 3 week cycle of a superdrol clone and the symptoms I was having started at the end of my PCT. One of the first thing I knoticed, right off the bat, was I had bags under my eyes, pale tongue even though drinking 2 gallons, and my neck seamed to always be pumped especially around the addams apple.

Now I have been accused, countless time of overtraining but my ego never let me calm down and take a break. When I went into the doctors they were looking at me from the standpoint of "does this man have a disease?" not "could this guy that is in better then average shape caused some kind of hormonal imbalance from the overtraining, lack of rest, and improper use of hormones?". To make a long story short Ive been dealing with this for the past 6 months, and although I'm not freaking out anytime i get my heartrate up, I am still unable to workout past around 160 beats per min. I know people with diseases like addisons and hashimotos and their numbers are extremely high, and they are pretty ****ed up. Now I am no doctor, but I believe that I burnt my adrenals out from too much training, mixed with too much jack3d to get over my fatigue, ass well as the hormones I was using. I'm thinking that my adrenal insufficiency i causing my thyroid to produce antibodies to inflame my thyroid, which in turn will cause it to produce more thyroid hormones. I've read reports stating that if your not producing enough cortisol that your body cannot use the t-3. So even though my blood work is showing normal, my body is unable to use it causing the auto-immune response.

If you guys have made any lead-way on your condition please let me know because it may be linked to what I have going on. The problem with doctors is that they look at a statistical norm of people and base what is normal for the average couch potato, on you, an athlete who pushes their body to abnormal limits. My doctors are no different and they refuse to believe that a healthy man can damage his adrenals so they refuse to treat me or even give me advice as to a protocol to recover. Let me know what you guys think and if you have any advice on what i need to do to get my body back to normal, such as: detox, nutrition, supplements, ect, please let me know it will be greatly appreciated. Its important for those of use who compete at a high level, and decide to use steriods and hormones, to talk about problem that arise while on cycle. Too often I read about these idiots that don't know shit about the way the body works, giving advice and acting as though you can apply "one-size-fits-all" approach to internal medicine. The truth is are bodies are different and just because one guy is not affected doesn't mean the same is true for another. Thanks for your help ladies and gentlemen.

[Cyclehard]

I know from experience that armour will make you itch. I also took DHEA while on thyroid meds and had a bad reaction. I did some research and your not supposed to mix the two.