No point in Aspirating?

[kbm12345]

I seriously do not see the point in aspirating, because after you aspirate the needle is 100% likely to move a little bit and that movement could end up in a vein/blood vessel.

According to the CDC they state-

"Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

"Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

"Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections of vaccines and immunizations."

STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009


Organizations which state aspiration is not necessary for immunizations & vaccines are:


Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
Department of Health Services (DHS)
American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
World Health Organization (WHO)


References:

1. Atkinson, W. L., Pickering, L. K., Schwartz, B., Weniger, B. G., Iskander, J. K., & Watson, J. C. (2002). General Recommendations on Immunization: Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) and the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP). Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 51, RR2. 1-33.

2. Chiodini, J. (2001). Best practice in vaccine administration. Nursing Standard, 16(7), 35-38.

3. Diggle, L. (2007). Injection technique for immunization. Practice Nurse, 33(1), 34-37.

4. Gammel, J. A. (1927). Arterial embolism: an unusual complication following the intramuscular administration of bismuth. Journal of the American Medical Association, 88, 998-1000.

5. Ipp, M., Taddio, A., Sam, J., Goldbach, M., & Parkin, P. C. (2007). Vaccine related pain: randomized controlled trial of two injection technique Archives of Disease in Childhood,92,1105-1108.

6. Li, J.T., Lockey, R. F., Bernstein, I. L., Portnoy, J. M., & Nicklas, R. A. (2003). Allergen immunotherapy: A practice parameter. Annuals of Allergy, Asthma, & Immunology, 1-40.

7. Livermore, P. (2003). Teaching home administration of sub-cutaneous methotrexate. Paediatric Nursing, 15(3), 28-32.

8. Middleton, D. B., Zimmerman, R. K., & Mitchell, K. B. (2003). Vaccine schedules and procedures, 2003. The Journal of Family Practice, 52(1), S36-S46.

9. Nicoli, L. H., & Hesby, A. (2002). Intramuscular injection: An integrative research review and guidelines for evidence-based practice. Applied Nursing Research,16(2), 149-162.

10. Ozel, A., Yavuz, H., & Erkul, I. (1995). Gangrene after penicillin injection: A case report. The Turkish Journal of Pediatrics, 37(1), 567-71.

11. Peragallo-Dittko, V. (1995). Aspiration of the subcutaneous insulin injection: Clinical evaluation of needle size and amount of subcutaneous fat. The Diabetes Educator, 21(4), 291-296.

12. Roger, M. A., & King, L. (2000). Drawing up and administering intramuscular injections: A review of the literature. Journal of Advanced Nursing, 31(3), 574-582.

13. Talbert, J. L., Haslam, R. H. & Haller, J. A. (1967). Gangrene of the foot following intramuscular injection in the lateral thigh: A case report with recommendations for prevention. The Journal of Pediatrics, 70(1), 110-114.

14. Workman, B. (1999). Safe injection techniques. Nursing Standard, 13 (39), 47-53.

15. World Health Organization (2004). Immunization in Practice, Module 6: Holding an immunization session. Immunization in Practice: A practical resource guide for health workers –2004 update,1-29.

16. Center for Nursing History at Misericordia University: http://www.misericordia.edu17. Levels of Evidence, Canadian Medical Association & Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (2001). Available at:http://www.cebm.net/index18. Melnyk, B. M., & Fineout-Overholt, E. (2005). Evidence-Based Practice in Nursing & Healthcare: A Guide to Best Practice. Philadelphia: Lippincott, Williams & Wilkins.

Thoughts?

[Considering]

I will admit I don't aspirate. I stoped once I read the instructions for using an epi pen and saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQor40vf7lE

[kbm12345]

Yeah ive seen that vid as well this is what he says about aspirating:

#

there is some risk to getting out of bed in the morning. Draw back if it makes you feel better. If you don't there may be risk from anxiety...

it's just not a big deal. I've never seen anyone stroke from an im injection to the thigh. Infection and allergy but never a stroke from injecting into a blood vessel.

Peace.
DrRunels 1 year ago
DrRunels 1 year ago

[Solidarity]

Most medications are water based which is why it usually is not needed, it's not the medication that is usually the problem. Additionally they are medical professionals who have administered 1,000's of shots and also would be able to assist if anything were to happen, this is very different that Joe Roider shooting his glute up in just bathroom who has no clue whether he is going to die when he is gasping for air on his piss stained dorm bathroom floor.


Also most shots that doctors give you don't have EO and other carriers that UGL steroids contain. You can't compare Upjohn test to the Test 600 I injected in my pec this morning.

I have injected into a blood vessel/vein before and let me tell you it is not something I want to ever go through again.

[BigJuice777]

Seems silly not too... It is such a simple process, my view is why not? I can see how much needle is showing... as long as its the same when injecting I can eliminate the possibility. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[Ashop]

Seems silly not too... It is such a simple process, my view is why not? I can see how much needle is showing... as long as its the same when injecting I can eliminate the possibility. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I think it ends up becoming a preference thing but I still do it myself.

[eGGz]

After getting some oil in a vein one time I guarantee you will aspirate from that point forward.
Were are talking a coughing fit of epic proportions. The likes of which you will never forget.
Yes, it happened to me.

[Considering]

After getting some oil in a vein one time I guarantee you will aspirate from that point forward.
Were are talking a coughing fit of epic proportions. The likes of which you will never forget.
Yes, it happened to me.

Where were you injecting?

[PistolStarta]

I have never had a nurse or doctor do it, but I still do just to be safer.

[eGGz]

Where were you injecting?

Testosterone Enanthate in the lat.
Still inject lats, in fact they are my favorite site, but I always aspirate

[terraj]

Depends on what you are injecting...I've heard that putting Tren into a blood vessel can be rough.

[Bonaparte]

I have never had a nurse or doctor do it, but I still do just to be safer.

And how many of those injections were oil-based? That's the real issue.

[kbm12345]

And how many of those injections were oil-based? That's the real issue.

No one has really addresed the main topic of this thread, what is the point of aspirating because after aspirating the needle will mos likely have moved places, whats to say it hasnt moved into a vein. That is why i feel it is pointless.

[Bonaparte]

No one has really addresed the main topic of this thread, what is the point of aspirating because after aspirating the needle will mos likely have moved places, whats to say it hasnt moved into a vein. That is why i feel it is pointless.

I don't know about you, but I have steady hands and can usually keep the needle in the same place. Besides, if you're in a large blood vessel (the kind that will **** you up real quick), you aren't going to be going in and out of it just by tweaking the pin a bit. And aspirating doesn't ensure that you cannot possibly shoot/leak some oil into a vein, but it will tell you if you are stuck in a vein right off the bat, which is well worth the 2 seconds it takes to do.

[terraj]

No one has really addresed the main topic of this thread, what is the point of aspirating because after aspirating the needle will mos likely have moved places, whats to say it hasnt moved into a vein. That is why i feel it is pointless.

I have no problem holding one place for pecs, delts, legs

[10nispro]

Let's say your gear was contaminated for whatever reason, you inject, no aspiration, but you push your into your vein. You just injected your bloodstream with a contaminant. It's one thing to treat an infected, localized area, versus your bloodstream. That's just one reason

[Solidarity]

All you need a lil flick of the plunger, that is all. You don't even need the plunger to move, if you are in a vein a little pressure on the plunger will shoot blood inside because of the blood being pressurized.


A lot of people will actually move the plunger up and wait to see the bubbles (vacuum) which could definitely move the placement of the needle but that is overkill and not needed. I just jam the pin in, flick the plunger with my thumb that I am using to inject and then push away.

It takes 1 second so I see no reason not to, even when I was pinning 4 times a day I still aspirated every time. I even aspirate with GH and other peptides even though they are water based and will be fine.

[Bonaparte]

Let's say your gear was contaminated for whatever reason, you inject, no aspiration, but you push your into your vein. You just injected your bloodstream with a contaminant. It's one thing to treat an infected, localized area, versus your bloodstream. That's just one reason

Actually, IV injections are much less prone to infection, since they are treated with a steady stream of white blood cells and the bacteria doesn't sit in one place and fester, as with an IM abscess. This is the reason why every heroin junky doesn't die after the first couple injections. If we did the same stupid shit with IM injections that junkies mainline (use cotton-balls to filter filthy gear, reuse needles, etc), we would be dead long before them.

[tintinnabulatio]

Very interesting thread, i agree with Solidarity, only a flick of the plunger is needed to check for blood.

[cerealkiller326]

I would rather take 2 seconds to find out if I hit a vein or not. I've never injected, nor experience AAS in blood stream, but I'm assuming its painfully noticable?

Thank god my GF is a nurse and shoots 1258012851285812512 injections a day.

[kynetguy]

Take the two seconds it takes to aspirate. If you ever do get "lucky" enough to be in a vessel, you will wish you had. The coughing attack you will get will make you wish you would just fall over dead. It's aweful. I have hit a vein with Test P before. Not cool.

Lets also not forget to mention, that most of what you shoot into a vessel, will get filtered out by the liver I think. (not positive) So why not take two seconds? Do you really want to waste that $10-$20 (or more) injection?

[Far from massive]

You will notice all of the studies are with vaccines etc. not oil based streroids, and these shots are indeed usaully given in locations where no major veins exist (glute/delt) but since we inject with greater frequency we need to rotate shots and use location that are not as safe.
Although its true that you may hit a blood vessel after aspiration do to moving the needel further into the muscle that is just one senario where it could fail the likelyhood of injection into a vessel is lessened.If you hit one on the way in if its nearby the point where the needle rests when you aspirate you will pull blood into the syringe even though you are not currently in the vein. So for me the benifits of aspiration far outwiegh the negatives...whatever the negatives are LOL.

Also agree 100% with Bonaparte the bloodstream is a terrible environment for germs a muscle is a freindly one.

[Bonaparte]

Take the two seconds it takes to aspirate. If you ever do get "lucky" enough to be in a vessel, you will wish you had. The coughing attack you will get will make you wish you would just fall over dead. It's aweful. I have hit a vein with Test P before. Not cool.

Lets also not forget to mention, that most of what you shoot into a vessel, will get filtered out by the liver I think. (not positive) So why not take two seconds? Do you really want to waste that $10-$20 (or more) injection?

Not really. It's all gets processed the same whether you pin something IM, Sub-Q, or IV. The latter will just hit a bit sooner (in a big way, lol), because it doesn't have to get absorbed by the muscle before passing into the bloodstream.

[kynetguy]

Not really. It's all the same whether you pin it IM, Sub-Q, or IV. The latter will just hit a bit sooner sooner (in a big way, lol), because it doesn't have to get absorbed by the muscle before passing into the bloodstream.

That was a guess. I would think that a big blob of oil in the bloodstream would get stopped.

[Bonaparte]

That was a guess. I would think that a big blob of oil in the bloodstream would get stopped.

Stopped by what? The brain? Well, that would be a cerebral oil embolism. And if that were to occur, I doubt you'll care about what happens to your steroid dose...

But worst-case scenarios aside, the drug gets absorbed and processed the same in the end (which should be your last concern if you actually do mainline oil).

[-Ender-]

I seriously do not see the point in aspirating, because after you aspirate the needle is 100% likely to move a little bit and that movement could end up in a vein/blood vessel.

According to the CDC they state-

"Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

"Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

"Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections of vaccines and immunizations."

STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009


Organizations which state aspiration is not necessary for immunizations & vaccines are:


Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
Department of Health Services (DHS)
American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
World Health Organization (WHO)


References:

1. Atkinson, W. L., Pickering, L. K., Schwartz, B., Weniger, B. G., Iskander, J. K., & Watson, J. C. (2002). General Recommendations on Immunization: Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) and the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP). Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 51, RR2. 1-33.

2. Chiodini, J. (2001). Best practice in vaccine administration. Nursing Standard, 16(7), 35-38.

3. Diggle, L. (2007). Injection technique for immunization. Practice Nurse, 33(1), 34-37.

4. Gammel, J. A. (1927). Arterial embolism: an unusual complication following the intramuscular administration of bismuth. Journal of the American Medical Association, 88, 998-1000.

5. Ipp, M., Taddio, A., Sam, J., Goldbach, M., & Parkin, P. C. (2007). Vaccine related pain: randomized controlled trial of two injection technique Archives of Disease in Childhood,92,1105-1108.

6. Li, J.T., Lockey, R. F., Bernstein, I. L., Portnoy, J. M., & Nicklas, R. A. (2003). Allergen immunotherapy: A practice parameter. Annuals of Allergy, Asthma, & Immunology, 1-40.

7. Livermore, P. (2003). Teaching home administration of sub-cutaneous methotrexate. Paediatric Nursing, 15(3), 28-32.

8. Middleton, D. B., Zimmerman, R. K., & Mitchell, K. B. (2003). Vaccine schedules and procedures, 2003. The Journal of Family Practice, 52(1), S36-S46.

9. Nicoli, L. H., & Hesby, A. (2002). Intramuscular injection: An integrative research review and guidelines for evidence-based practice. Applied Nursing Research,16(2), 149-162.

10. Ozel, A., Yavuz, H., & Erkul, I. (1995). Gangrene after penicillin injection: A case report. The Turkish Journal of Pediatrics, 37(1), 567-71.

11. Peragallo-Dittko, V. (1995). Aspiration of the subcutaneous insulin injection: Clinical evaluation of needle size and amount of subcutaneous fat. The Diabetes Educator, 21(4), 291-296.

12. Roger, M. A., & King, L. (2000). Drawing up and administering intramuscular injections: A review of the literature. Journal of Advanced Nursing, 31(3), 574-582.

13. Talbert, J. L., Haslam, R. H. & Haller, J. A. (1967). Gangrene of the foot following intramuscular injection in the lateral thigh: A case report with recommendations for prevention. The Journal of Pediatrics, 70(1), 110-114.

14. Workman, B. (1999). Safe injection techniques. Nursing Standard, 13 (39), 47-53.

15. World Health Organization (2004). Immunization in Practice, Module 6: Holding an immunization session. Immunization in Practice: A practical resource guide for health workers –2004 update,1-29.

16. Center for Nursing History at Misericordia University: http://www.misericordia.edu17. Levels of Evidence, Canadian Medical Association & Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (2001). Available at:http://www.cebm.net/index18. Melnyk, B. M., & Fineout-Overholt, E. (2005). Evidence-Based Practice in Nursing & Healthcare: A Guide to Best Practice. Philadelphia: Lippincott, Williams & Wilkins.

Thoughts?

How can anybody be too lazy to pull back on the damn plunger? If you don't think it needs to be done: wait till you inject into a vein. you'll see.
It's not a sword, so don't worry about a little movement.

[kynetguy]

Stopped by what? The brain? Well, that would be a cerebral oil embolism. And if that were to occur, I doubt you'll care about what happens to your steroid dose...

But worst-case scenarios aside, the drug gets absorbed and processed the same in the end (which should be your last concern if you actually do mainline oil).

Keep up, the LIVER. Stopped by the liver.

If you do hit a vessel, it will be a vein. odds are you wont hit an arterial line in the common injection sites (glutes, quads, delts) with a 1-1.5" pin. And this is why you cough, because it goes to the lungs. (pulmonary embolism, since we are using fancy terms. )

[Tigershark]

I will always asperate no matter what studies say about it. I don't need oil getting into my lungs.

[JohnnyVegas]

I will aspirate until consensus says otherwise. It is so easy, that there is no reason to not do it if there is ANY chance it helps. I got blood when I aspirated on my third injection, and I am glad that I didn't push the plunger without checking.

[kynetguy]

I bet no one from CDC ever nearly coughed up a lung after injected 2ccs of Test in their veins. . .just sayin. .

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I gave up on aspirating. It's just too difficult to pull the plunger out at an awkward angle and not mess something up. I inject every day and haven't had a problem. Whatever I keep my mouth shut when noobs ask about it though