Do Compounds Compete?

[Kdub]

AAS literature in certain circles states that compounds compete with one another.

In other circles this theory is bunk.

If compounds do compete, does this suggest the kick start compound sets the tone for the cycle for the duration of its use?

If a long ester like Enanthate is used with a 2-3 week "in the system" time, and Dianabol is used to kick start for the first 4 weeks, does this mean the initial gains for the first 4 weeks is compliments of Dianabol even though there is a 1-2 week overlap of Enanthate?

If so, then what happens to the Enanthate during that overlap? Is it not used by the body and converted to estrogen? Is it stored? Is it discarded by the body?

If the Dianabol or any other compound that comes first to the table binds to the receptor cite(s) is there any room for the other 1 or 2 or 3 compounds in the same cite(s)?

Is there a percentage of space left for the others to bind?

Also, if we take a compound like Tren with a high affinity to bind to the receptor, does Tren kick the Dianabol or kick start compound or other weaker binding compound out of the cite?

From the circles who do say compounds compete, and the reason then for rotating compounds every week or two, does the binding strength come from the peak release time of the compound (i.e. Prop peaks at say... 48-60 hours)?

What method is used to gauge the binding time?

I read an interview with Lee Priest and he admitted AAS use but not the mega doses (10-14 grams a week) that other pros use but rather, less than 1500 mgs and he said he added compounds as he went along in contest phase.

If I recall correctly, he stated he was using Primo and other long esters, adding them just a month or so out of the contest. This is not rotating but goes to the question of receptor binding.

If compounds do compete, wouldn't it make sense to run 3 different orals (a 4 week run) every 10 days?

Winstrol 10 days
Dianabol 10 days
Anavar 10 days

Paul Borresen, with his Burst cycle structure, would switch up Test esters every 10-12 days. Clearly he came to the conclusion that it was wise to alternate Propinate, Enanthate, Cypionate and others during the cycle. Yates was a student and the results speak for themselves, assuming Yates cycled like this.

Form personal experience, I build the most tissue from anabolics (Deca, Winstrol, etc...) and not Test. Would it then make sense to run a Winstrol kick start to bind to the receptor cite first and then allow the Test to come in a little later to support hormonal functions and provide additional growth?

What is your take on compounds competing? Have you rotated compounds or Test esters? What were your results?

Happy New Year.

[Bonaparte]

Sure, they may compete a little bit, but that will be largely determined by AR binding affinity, not which one is begun first. And your Dbol kickstart example doesn't work, since Dbol has very low AR bidning affinity and its gains are largely non-AR mediated.
And AR binding and activation is a constant, ongoing process. It isn't like a dose of anything is going to bind up all your ARs for weeks. They'll be back and hungry for more very quickly.
But you have so many ARs that it is probably a non-issue in real life.

[yungone501]

interesting theory...i will give myexperiences and beliefs:

to me, it almost seems when taking multiple compounds that the strongest compound obviously becomes the dominant contributor to both sides and anabolic effect. for instance, tren rides captain chair in my current cycle. i also include test and dbol, however, i dont seem to be obtaining hardly (if any) water rentention from these two compounds...is this the tren? also, quality of my gains totally resemble those of tren only. sure i have incredibly high strength (sorry, bragging) butis this from the dbol or tren. its the same strength ive had when the tren first kicked and only recently started dbol (2 1/2 weeks ago) so why not an even more increased strength from dbol??

any and all research on this matter would be very much appreciated.

^^^IMO^^^

[Far from massive]

Great thread! BUMP!

[Duckhombre]

If you knock down a beehive, then step in a wasp nest, first you will be stung by bees, then wasps. At first you will only have bee stings, but after a moment you will probably only notice the wasps stings, because they are more intense. So both compounds are working, but you are only noticing the more pronounced of the two, even though the two together are producing the effect. If you continue with this long enough, you will pick up on nuances of different compounds, and 'synergy' of them. One compound is not going to kick the other out, or displace it from a recepter.

Having a ''higher affinity" means that the compound is not likely to circulate as long the comparative compound because it is more attracted to the receptor. Receptors are constantly being sent to surface/membrane of various cells, saturation does not occur. The closer you get to saturation, though, the more SHBG and aromatase is going to attach to your hormone because it will be in circulation longer. Other liturature has suggested though, that in certain cells, that the more AR is activated, the more the receptor is produced.

In vivo, I notice more effect when I change compounds every 6-10 weeks.

[yungone501]

Thats a rather...unique analogy.

[Kdub]

yung,

What are your doses of test and tren and how long do you run your cycles?

At what point during the cycle do you notice a slow down in gains?

[cro]

sweet info.

Great thread! BUMP!