my point is the world we live in now is so fast paced that youg guys want fast gains ,yes waiting and building a good solid base with a good diet is the key most of us know that but the matter of the fact is alot of people wont listen and if they dont get the advise on how to cycle in the right manner they ill more or likely go and listen to some clueless guy down the gym who will recomend a very bad cycle and the user will end up alot worse of than if he was given the right info from the likes of this forum ,thats all am pointing out..