25% of kids on prescription meds!? What tha?

[JJ78]

This is disturbing

http://www.naturalnews.com/030879_children_drugs.html

How do yall feel about this. Would you drug your kids?

[MuscleScience]

The medical model gets the benefit of the doubt. Does a kid really have ADHD because he has a lack of Ritalin in his system. Or is it because he has a lack of adequate exercise and interesting things to engage his mind?

No doubt that the Medical profession helps children everyday that really need it. The problem is two fold, parents expect their kid to get antibiotics when they have a cold or sore throat or ear ache. When in most cases its simply a virus that must run its course. Secondly, medical doctors are bombarded by pharm reps pushing new "safer" medications on doctors. The amount of new drugs that comes out each year is to much for most physicians to keep up with. Not that Pharm companies and reps are bad by any means. However they have a vested interest in seeing their drugs used.

Lastly is the issue of keeping kids in a sterile environment. Kids need exposed to bacteria and viruses throughout their development. We have evolved to combat and improve our ability to defend against foreign invaders to our bodies. Vaccinating kids against some childhood diseases such as chicken pox takes away that natural evolutionary process of adaption and counter adaptions by competing organisms. Chicken pox subtype strains are not exactly the same as they were 50 years ago, in another 50 years they will evolve differently. Life finds a way to carry on, and despite our best efforts they will. I am not saying that we shouldn't vaccinate kids against Measles and such. But should we really vaccinate a kid against a laboratory lab strain of a flu virus that may or may not even be present in nature? That is a matter of debate and countries such as Australia have outlawed certain flu vaccines that have very little scientific validity.

Surprisingly, and many people are not aware of this. One estimate by JAMA in 07 or 08 showed that close to 80% of all medical procedures in the US. Do not have significant scientific evidence to support routine treatment. Granted it takes significant time to get the FDA and other such organizations to approve procedures and medications. Which leads my opinion that I would not want my child undergoing a basically untested or validated treatment unless the risk of doing nothing outweighed the risk of treatment.

Now it takes time for such procedures to get approved and testing needs to be done. For example, back surgeries of any kind have very low effective clinical outcomes and for many the risk of surgery does not significantly improve their symptoms. Some it does, but many have a second surgery within two years. Over time, with enough experience these rates of success will increase. But as a patient and or the parent of a child undergoing new medications or therapies, it is extremely important to ask all relevant questions and find support groups that have been through similar situations. Knowledge is any patients best chance of success. Do not be afraid to question your health practitioner of any kind or discipline about the risks vs benefits of treatment or none treatment. Nothing is without side effects. A calculated assessment of risk is prudent and the Doctor may not always have the ability personality wise to make that clear to all patients. We all learn and teach differently.

[Bojangles69]

Thats only kids I think adults is 1/3. You have to consider prescription drugs are for both physical and emotional problems now. Back in the day it was mostly all physical. But back in the day we also prescribed heroin and speed. It really doesn't surprise or disturb me that much.
Humans have always resorted to drugs in one way or another or manipulated their biologies. Before the pharma era was the hippy era, before the hippy era was the "we legally prescribe heroin, cocaine, and speed" era. I mean if you
trace it back far enough, human beings always got their fix in some way.

Now is it getting out of control? That depends on what you consider "it" or the actual problem. Is it that kids are using more drugs, or that the human race is slowly being manipulated into sheep by money and power? Or is it that over population stresses humans out? Or is it that more females are entering the workforce (we know more women are also resorting to drugs or meds at
a younger age now and that work causes a lot of stress). Is it bad diet? Is it the fact that psychiatry is not a real science?

Do you see where I'm going here? Theres soo many different factors all playing a role. And theres also the factor of evidence. What kind of evidence is fear? Thats really the only evidence in that article, that we're suppose to be afraid or just bothered by the fact that 1/4 kids is on medication. What about the results though? I'm not sure its possible to factor in so many different factors and make a concrete statement. So to remain as objective as possible on this. "It is what it is." But to be honest, instinct tells me it can't possibly be good.

[BlInDsIdE]

wow, wasnt' aware that the numbers were that high. it does seem now adays though that they'll perscribe anything to anyone even if they may be able to do ok without it in some cases

[Tigershark]

This does not surprise me. Half the parents at my son's school say their child is something for ADHD.

[VegasRenegade]

Part of the reason is tha more and more we are expecting our boys to act like girls. Sit still in your desk for 6 hours. be polite, keep your voice down. etc. Girl type behavior are expected and rewarded in school. Boy behaviors, moving being competive learning by doing are not allowed and punished. parents of Boys who refuse or can not comply are told maybe your child needs meds. Now some kids can not function without med. However It is less than 10% of those currently proscribed.
We need to change the system not the boys.

[DSM4Life]

Part of the reason is tha more and more we are expecting our boys to act like girls. Sit still in your desk for 6 hours. be polite, keep your voice down. etc. Girl type behavior are expected and rewarded in school. Boy behaviors, moving being competive learning by doing are not allowed and punished. parents of Boys who refuse or can not comply are told maybe your child needs meds. Now some kids can not function without med. However It is less than 10% of those currently proscribed.
We need to change the system not the boys.

So let me try and understand your logic.
Here is a your list of girly attributes:
-Behaving in school
-Being polite
-Not yelling in class (sort of goes with the above statement)

Maybe its parents with logic like yours that's causing the child to be put on medication. If you taught your child how to properly interact with other people maybe a doctor wouldn't push drugs on him.

[VegasRenegade]

Not quite what I was saying. being polite behaving in school are ok. However when we expect 12 year old boys to learn by sitting in a desk for 6 hours when the reserch shows most have a hard time learning that way. When we 90% of our classes to prepare for college even thought only 40% or less go on a graduate. We have a problem

What I am saying is that we need to do a better job of teaching the way boys learn. More activity more outcome based projects. More hands on.

I am a special ed teacher by the way.
My son was a college athlete and grad and did
know how to behave in school. However many times
It was suggested that he had ADHD my answer was no
just an active young man.
If a boy can sit still and learn great more power to him
however it is not the only way to teach or learn.

[MBMETC]

i think as a society we have become afraid to face the issue and deal with it correctly, teachers dont want to handle difficult children and some parents are no different, so they take the shortcut and medicate the child instead of applying some sort of behavior modification program or differant approach.

[DSM4Life]

Not quite what I was saying. being polite behaving in school are ok. However when we expect 12 year old boys to learn by sitting in a desk for 6 hours when the reserch shows most have a hard time learning that way. When we 90% of our classes to prepare for college even thought only 40% or less go on a graduate. We have a problem

What I am saying is that we need to do a better job of teaching the way boys learn. More activity more outcome based projects. More hands on.

I am a special ed teacher by the way.
My son was a college athlete and grad and did
know how to behave in school. However many times
It was suggested that he had ADHD my answer was no
just an active young man.
If a boy can sit still and learn great more power to him
however it is not the only way to teach or learn.

"However when we expect 12 year old boys to learn by sitting in a desk for 6 hours when the reserch shows most have a hard time learning that way"
No 12 year boy/girl wants to sit at a desk for 6 hrs and learn. Its not just boys. Children hate to be told to sit in their seats, keep quite and learn. So because its hard for them to do we should uproot the entire foundation on which school is built ? No. If you ask me we need more positive reenforcement. When i was a child my parents were so happy when i earned good grades. They would make a big fuse out of a B or A grade and take me out for ice cream or give me money for the ice cream truck. It made me feel good that i could make my parents this happy. My mother would study with me and help me whenever i asked for help. When i received a poor grade i knew that my mother wouldn't be as happy and might not take me out. She was not happy and would study with me more on that subject. She molded me early and it stuck. Put in the hard work and there will be a positive light at the end of the tunnel. Too many child are missing this whether it be with parents who are too busy trying to further their own careers or missing mothers/fathers. It's a shame but the blame almost should always fall on the parents. I say almost because we all know there are actual medical conditions that the parents have no control over.

So now that i established parents are a key role in a childs development how about children in foster care/boarding house/up for adoption ? They are missing a key part in their lives which will mold them for the rest of their lives which when we look at the sheer numbers its mind boggling. So now we see we have hundreds of thousands of children without parents but the system still makes it almost impossible for people to adopt them and try and rectify the problem.

[VegasRenegade]

"However when we expect 12 year old boys to learn by sitting in a desk for 6 hours when the reserch shows most have a hard time learning that way"
No 12 year boy/girl wants to sit at a desk for 6 hrs and learn. Its not just boys. Children hate to be told to sit in their seats, keep quite and learn. So because its hard for them to do we should uproot the entire foundation on which school is built ? No. If you ask me we need more positive reenforcement. When i was a child my parents were so happy when i earned good grades. They would make a big fuse out of a B or A grade and take me out for ice cream or give me money for the ice cream truck. It made me feel good that i could make my parents this happy. My mother would study with me and help me whenever i asked for help. When i received a poor grade i knew that my mother wouldn't be as happy and might not take me out. She was not happy and would study with me more on that subject. She molded me early and it stuck. Put in the hard work and there will be a positive light at the end of the tunnel. Too many child are missing this whether it be with parents who are too busy trying to further their own careers or missing mothers/fathers. It's a shame but the blame almost should always fall on the parents. I say almost because we all know there are actual medical conditions that the parents have no control over.

So now that i established parents are a key role in a childs development how about children in foster care/boarding house/up for adoption ? They are missing a key part in their lives which will mold them for the rest of their lives which when we look at the sheer numbers its mind boggling. So now we see we have hundreds of thousands of children without parents but the system still makes it almost impossible for people to adopt them and try and rectify the problem.

Now you make some very good points. Yes we should uproot the system and change it or at least go back to the the past.
When I was a kid in grade school we had a 30 min recess twice a day. We had PE and art and music daily. Try to find that in any school today.

In Jr high school We had a choice of classes. Journalism, Wood shop, Metal shop. Creative writing, Typing, Home Ec and many others. Find that today

In high school You could take college prep classes or prepare for a trade or the arts. Now kids were tracked into these areas so that was a problem but there were options. few of these are around today.

You are very correct about the lack of parents and good parents. Many parents have no desire to be a parent. Don't get me started.

The fact is Girls are more likely to be able to display "in school behavior than boys"

[DSM4Life]

Now you make some very good points. Yes we should uproot the system and change it or at least go back to the the past.
When I was a kid in grade school we had a 30 min recess twice a day. We had PE and art and music daily. Try to find that in any school today.

In Jr high school We had a choice of classes. Journalism, Wood shop, Metal shop. Creative writing, Typing, Home Ec and many others. Find that today

In high school You could take college prep classes or prepare for a trade or the arts. Now kids were tracked into these areas so that was a problem but there were options. few of these are around today.

You are very correct about the lack of parents and good parents. Many parents have no desire to be a parent. Don't get me started.

The fact is Girls are more likely to be able to display "in school behavior than boys"

Very good points as well. I totally agree on recess and special activity courses. I also had these when i was a child . I built a birdhouse in wood class but some douche bag stole it from where we kept them

[VegasRenegade]

Now a days we have to do to many remediation classes. One thing we do to kids is if they can not read and hate reading is give them another period of reading same class that they hate. We take away their elective. So they may not have PE.
Now we wonder why the misbehave. Simple teach reading in a content area they are interested in. The more the government gets involved in education the worse thing become.

[Knockout_Power]

Why does this suprise anyone?... we live in a world where we take absolutely no responsibility for anything. The moment something is wrong or we cant deal with things, we like to believe that there is something out of our control that makes life difficult and instead of being responsibile for that, we take medication to make it look like we are made better by it.

Its no different with our kids, we dont want to admit they are lazy and unwilling to put forth any effort so we make excuses like A.D.D, hypertension, depression to compensate for them being little shits

[D7M]

Now a days we have to do to many remediation classes. One thing we do to kids is if they can not read and hate reading is give them another period of reading same class that they hate. We take away their elective. So they may not have PE.
Now we wonder why the misbehave. Simple teach reading in a content area they are interested in. The more the government gets involved in education the worse thing become.

Whaaat?

So if a child can't read, he should just take PE instead?

[JJ78]

See, I think the problem is that 60% of these children do not need any type of meds.

Like the other posters said it is diet and lack of excercise.

And uneducated, lazy parents that do not want to ndeal with it or put the time in. And they are easily manipulated by these doctors that are making a pretty buck prescribing these drugs.

I know that doctors get incentives to push drugs on patients, and what easier mark than a concerned parent?

[SlimmerMe]

Now you make some very good points. Yes we should uproot the system and change it or at least go back to the the past.
When I was a kid in grade school we had a 30 min recess twice a day. We had PE and art and music daily. Try to find that in any school today.

In Jr high school We had a choice of classes. Journalism, Wood shop, Metal shop. Creative writing, Typing, Home Ec and many others. Find that today

In high school You could take college prep classes or prepare for a trade or the arts. Now kids were tracked into these areas so that was a problem but there were options. few of these are around today.

You are very correct about the lack of parents and good parents. Many parents have no desire to be a parent. Don't get me started.

The fact is Girls are more likely to be able to display "in school behavior than boys"

I suppose this explains why I got sent to the Principal's office constantly. So much so that they wanted to expel me just for the heck of it since I was there so much.

[JJ78]

And what about the change in brain chemistry.

No disrespect to DSM, this is not about being gay, but boys are more and more taking on female traits.

Weather this is from our food, water, or mercury. Who knows, but I think that feeding you kids meds that we really do not know what the long term effects will be is not a good thing. We are the most medicated contry in the world.

And pharmaceuticals is the biggest business in the world. Lots of influence on governments when you pulll in hundreds of billons of dollars in profits every year.

[VegasRenegade]

Why does this suprise anyone?... we live in a world where we take absolutely no responsibility for anything. The moment something is wrong or we cant deal with things, we like to believe that there is something out of our control that makes life difficult and instead of being responsibile for that, we take medication to make it look like we are made better by it.

Its no different with our kids, we dont want to admit they are lazy and unwilling to put forth any effort so we make excuses like A.D.D, hypertension, depression to compensate for them being little shits

Nice

[VegasRenegade]

D7M Well having him do PE would have a more postive effect than having him do another reading class just like the other reading class. The logic the the schools use is well we have him a reading class that did not work lets give him another reading class. It did not work for a reason. He needs one on one remediation. And he needs an elective that he can be good at. Now the best of both worlds would be an elective he enjoys that has reading as part of the content.

Slimmer

I would think that the fact that you are on this board would be prof that you are not a typical female.

Again not all girls or boys fit the mold.

[Shol'va]

It's all part of the "Gay Agenda". Gays have infiltrated the pharmaceutical companies, created a formula for turning straight children gay, bottled it as ritalin and adderex, all for the evil purpose of resupplying more gay children in the world.

[JJ78]

I clearly said that it is not about being gay.
Relax, were not out to get ya.

I dont have a problem with anyone being gay, I dont understand it, but i do not judge.

[JJ78]

I speaking more along the lines of being weak little video game playing p*ssies.
Emo, skinny jeans, 130lbs p*ssies

[JJ78]

of course that is society playing a factor in that, but

[Shol'va]

For whatever reason some people are just not equipped to handle children. Either due to both parents working and not enough time being set aside for the kids or just one parent to raise the kids. We are no longer living in the Ozzie And Harriet or Leave It To Beaver days...and it reflects on our society. Kids being raised without respect being taught to them. Parents wanting the easy way out by drugging their kids so they dont have to deal with them, etc. Maybe it has something to due with the parents themselves being the children form the parents who grew up in the sixties with them all taking acid and quaaludes and reds vitamin c and cocaine.

[JJ78]

I like the Bob Weir quote. Nice.

[VegasRenegade]

For whatever reason some people are just not equipped to handle children. Either due to both parents working and not enough time being set aside for the kids or just one parent to raise the kids. We are no longer living in the Ozzie And Harriet or Leave It To Beaver days...and it reflects on our society. Kids being raised without respect being taught to them. Parents wanting the easy way out by drugging their kids so they dont have to deal with them, etc. Maybe it has something to due with the parents themselves being the children form the parents who grew up in the sixties with them all taking acid and quaaludes and reds vitamin c and cocaine.

You are correct my Generation The 60's are directly responsibly To many of us raise a spoiled generation many only children thay got instant gratification, They got a trophy for showing up. Grades and test were dumed down for them. They grew up to be lazy me first brats. Now they are raising the kids. So what should we expect. Now even those who are trying to do a good job are many times off track. Kids are not allowed to be kids. Play time is scheduled, They are protected and not allowed to to fall down and get back up on thier own.

[D.Pump]

And what about the change in brain chemistry.

No disrespect to DSM, this is not about being gay, but boys are more and more taking on female traits.

Weather this is from our food, water, or mercury. Who knows, but I think that feeding you kids meds that we really do not know what the long term effects will be is not a good thing. We are the most medicated contry in the world.

And pharmaceuticals is the biggest business in the world. Lots of influence on governments when you pulll in hundreds of billons of dollars in profits every year.

Some people believe that this is happening due to the large use of pharmaceutical birth control. Trace amounts of female hormones that are ingested to keep the body in a state where pregnancy is not possible are flushed out in urine from millions of women. Studies have shown that trace amounts of these hormones end up in the drinking water and pose one explanation for the drop in sperm count and libido of men in the last fifty years.

As for all the other opinions on school and what works and what doesn't I believe it has to do with no one wanting to accept that THEIR child is dumb or has behavior problems. My johnny can't just be the dumb kid in the class he MUST HAVE ADHD. Or no no my susie can't possibly not have any discipline it must be the ADHD. Blah blah blah. Plenty of smart kids have the symptoms of ADD but the point is EVERYONE DOES. No one likes doing homework or studying for 6 hours. Everyone would rather be playing football or playing with friends that doing school work. The difference is people with strong work ethics and who are smart OVERCOME these tendencies just as most functioning adults do. However, the feeble minded will always find something else to blame their weakness on.

During elementary and middle I was so "hyperactive" I used to stand at my desk because I couldn't sit still. To this day I still talk faster than most people and yes I get distracted. All throughout school teachers suggested that I get tested for ADHD. However, my parents told me that this was how I am and that I had to learn how to conquer my bad habits and learn to discipline myself. SO I DID! Now I am in college and have been diagnosed with ADD. SO what? I was able to master myself through discipline and hard work and I'm glad I did because the kids I know now that take ADD medicine in college still can't manage their time or organize their desk because they have always had the excuse of their ADD. I'm just grateful that these were skills I had learned when I was younger and dealing with my ADD instead of now.

Most ADD drugs are performance enhancing drugs plain and simple. If Johnny is not developing to be as muscular as his friends should we give him steroids? NO! So if johnny isn't concentrating as well as his classmates should we give him Adderall? I say no again

@vegusrenegade

you saying that when the reading class doesn't work that they should be given a different way of learning kind of strikes me as very similar to what people say about the ADD. If its not ADD then its "I'm a bad test taker" or "I dont learn well in that way" or "I'm more of a visual learner" the bottom line is their all EXCUSES. Kids these days need to sack up and put in some work as opposed to always finding an excuse.

Just my .02

[DSM4Life]

And what about the change in brain chemistry.

No disrespect to DSM, this is not about being gay, but boys are more and more taking on female traits.

Weather this is from our food, water, or mercury. Who knows, but I think that feeding you kids meds that we really do not know what the long term effects will be is not a good thing. We are the most medicated contry in the world.

And pharmaceuticals is the biggest business in the world. Lots of influence on governments when you pulll in hundreds of billons of dollars in profits every year.

You have studies on this ? Because if not its your opinion and nothing more.

[JJ78]

No studies, but I am observent.

I call it as I see it.

[VegasRenegade]

There are some studies have to luck them up

[DSM4Life]

No studies, but I am observent.

I call it as I see it.

So you have observed how many young boys in your life with female traits ? maybe 500 (at best). So based on maybe 500 boys you are making a statement that groups what you observed to millions of boys in America ? You get where i am going here ?

[VegasRenegade]

you saying that when the reading class doesn't work that they should be given a different way of learning kind of strikes me as very similar to what people say about the ADD. If its not ADD then its "I'm a bad test taker" or "I dont learn well in that way" or "I'm more of a visual learner" the bottom line is their all EXCUSES. Kids these days need to sack up and put in some work as opposed to always finding an excuse.

I am not saying thay need to have a different way of learning or excuses just that given them another class that is the same is not the answer.

I coached for many years and many of my best kids would never have made it if they were told sorry you can not be on the team you have to have another reading class instead. However When it was get a good grade or you will not be eligible then that was another story.

I tell my kids there are reasons for your problems but they are not an excuse for failure. You must learn to addapt.

[D7M]

And what about the change in brain chemistry.

No disrespect to DSM, this is not about being gay, but boys are more and more taking on female traits.

Weather this is from our food, water, or mercury. Who knows, but I think that feeding you kids meds that we really do not know what the long term effects will be is not a good thing. We are the most medicated contry in the world.

And pharmaceuticals is the biggest business in the world. Lots of influence on governments when you pulll in hundreds of billons of dollars in profits every year.

If you mean physically, then no.

But if you mean it sociologically, then absolutely.

It's pretty damn obvious that traditional gender roles (particularly men becoming more effeminate) have changed significantly in the last 30-40 years.

I don't know of any (empirical) studies on it, but there's plenty of sociologists, philosophers and cultural anthropologists who have written largely on the subject. I'll dig up some stuff on it later.

[D7M]

So you have observed how many young boys in your life with female traits ? maybe 500 (at best). So based on maybe 500 boys you are making a statement that groups what you observed to millions of boys in America ? You get where i am going here ?

What if he cited a study that was conducted on 25, 50 or 100 males?

It would still be only a study on sampling.

Media portrayal is a good indicator of this.

Also, personally as an educator, I see ALOT of this.

[Knockout_Power]

It's all part of the "Gay Agenda". Gays have infiltrated the pharmaceutical companies, created a formula for turning straight children gay, bottled it as ritalin and adderex, all for the evil purpose of resupplying more gay children in the world.

have they not found the cure for "gayness" yet? I thought they destroyed the gay gene years ago

BUGLE BOY

[JJ78]

Ha I found 1

http://calcoastnews.com/2010/12/merc...vior-in-birds/

[JJ78]

not humans but still

Again I am not talking about Gay men. I am talking about boys and men mentally and socialogically having female traits.

[JJ78]

Physically? Man boobs? Obese men have tits.

[DSM4Life]

What if he cited a study that was conducted on 25, 50 or 100 males?

It would still be only a study on sampling.

Media portrayal is a good indicator of this.

Also, personally as an educator, I see ALOT of this.

Growing up in a city environment there was a lot of racial tension. So because i got in a fight with a lot of black people does that mean all black people are violent ? You can't take what one person observes and use that information to draw up a factual conclusion. You would need to do a study with 1000's of people from all walks of life. Different religious beliefs, environmental differences etc. Thats my point. When you guys say "boys" do you understand how many variables are involved here ?