Clomid vs Nolvadex

[vk2]

Which did you use for your PCT? What made you pick one over the other?
I'm trying to learn more about these two compounds to better make a decision.

[MBMETC]

use both, but if it had to only be one i would go with nolvadex

[Walnutz]

I've always used both as well.

[winston06]

The consensus is that Tamox isn't too bad, but that's just cause it's cheap, effective and readily available. If people really knew, they would be more careful. Some of the highest enzyme numbers I ever got were from Clomid @ 50mg/day (that's about equal in toxicity to 15mg Tamox) But nobody ever listens.

It's well established just how toxic this stuff is. Thromboembolic issues are of primary concern, and your more likely to have a stroke the longer you use it. Ocular degeneration and retinopathy are also a problem. As are an increased association with need for cataract removal surgery in people who use it. Tamox also induces multinucleated giant cells and germinal epithelial sloughing in a dose-dependent manner and these changes are detrimental to male fertility. Ever notice libido issues on Tamox? As for the liver, memangiosarcoma, adenoma, fatty liver, and carcimona are long term effects that show up years after use. Desmosterol levels are also elevated showing direct interference with cholesterol biosynthesis. That may sound good but it's really not.

Basiclly, take letro and only use SERM's for PCT. Even then, never use any more that is needed. I can go on and on. Trust me on this one my friend, it's more toxic that everybody thinks. I even know one woman who had to have all of her teeth removed after starting Tamox therapy. That's after her hair fell out, and she didn't have anything else wrong with her before that. It's some weird **** and should not be used as causually as it is. Most people who have used it can probably think back and remeber strange things that made them uneasy about using it, if they are honest about it.

Bottom line, it was designed over 50 years ago to treat cancer patients.

[CMB]

The consensus is that Tamox isn't too bad, but that's just cause it's cheap, effective and readily available. If people really knew, they would be more careful. Some of the highest enzyme numbers I ever got were from Clomid @ 50mg/day (that's about equal in toxicity to 15mg Tamox) But nobody ever listens.

It's well established just how toxic this stuff is. Thromboembolic issues are of primary concern, and your more likely to have a stroke the longer you use it. Ocular degeneration and retinopathy are also a problem. As are an increased association with need for cataract removal surgery in people who use it. Tamox also induces multinucleated giant cells and germinal epithelial sloughing in a dose-dependent manner and these changes are detrimental to male fertility. Ever notice libido issues on Tamox? As for the liver, memangiosarcoma, adenoma, fatty liver, and carcimona are long term effects that show up years after use. Desmosterol levels are also elevated showing direct interference with cholesterol biosynthesis. That may sound good but it's really not.

Basiclly, take letro and only use SERM's for PCT. Even then, never use any more that is needed. I can go on and on. Trust me on this one my friend, it's more toxic that everybody thinks. I even know one woman who had to have all of her teeth removed after starting Tamox therapy. That's after her hair fell out, and she didn't have anything else wrong with her before that. It's some weird **** and should not be used as causually as it is. Most people who have used it can probably think back and remeber strange things that made them uneasy about using it, if they are honest about it.

Bottom line, it was designed over 50 years ago to treat cancer patients.

If you're stating the one in a million, then this would make sense. I've never had my liver enzymes through the roof with any serm. To be honest with you, I've never even had ANY side effects what so ever with serms. But hey, I'm not criticizing you at all. I just wanted my input on this.

IMO, serms are the least of my worries.

[Matt]

Both are needed...

[jimmyinkedup]

clomid stimulates production of GnRH (produced by hypotahlimus)
Nolvadex stimultes production lh and fsh (pituitary gland)
Together they effect both parts of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis - which provdes greater benefit than just one or the other.
Summary : Together the work through diff pathways to more effectively restore hormonal function.

[Swifto]

The consensus is that Tamox isn't too bad, but that's just cause it's cheap, effective and readily available. If people really knew, they would be more careful. Some of the highest enzyme numbers I ever got were from Clomid @ 50mg/day (that's about equal in toxicity to 15mg Tamox) But nobody ever listens.

It's well established just how toxic this stuff is. Thromboembolic issues are of primary concern, and your more likely to have a stroke the longer you use it. Ocular degeneration and retinopathy are also a problem. As are an increased association with need for cataract removal surgery in people who use it. Tamox also induces multinucleated giant cells and germinal epithelial sloughing in a dose-dependent manner and these changes are detrimental to male fertility. Ever notice libido issues on Tamox? As for the liver, memangiosarcoma, adenoma, fatty liver, and carcimona are long term effects that show up years after use. Desmosterol levels are also elevated showing direct interference with cholesterol biosynthesis. That may sound good but it's really not.

Basiclly, take letro and only use SERM's for PCT. Even then, never use any more that is needed. I can go on and on. Trust me on this one my friend, it's more toxic that everybody thinks. I even know one woman who had to have all of her teeth removed after starting Tamox therapy. That's after her hair fell out, and she didn't have anything else wrong with her before that. It's some weird **** and should not be used as causually as it is. Most people who have used it can probably think back and remeber strange things that made them uneasy about using it, if they are honest about it.

Bottom line, it was designed over 50 years ago to treat cancer patients.

I'm not disagreeing that SERMs are toxic, but used for PCT for 5-6 weeks and at the doses WE use, they are the lesser of two evils as we NEED the HPTA to restart asap.

There are plenty of studies on cancer patients done over a decade showing far greater total mg doses than we could ever use proving they are safe for long term use. As for your women having a teeth removed, there are always risks in using compounds and they are always some user's that have extreme side effects.

There are thousands of board members here that have used SERMs for a limited time during PCT or treating gyno with NO sides.

I'm no longer a fan of Clomid because of its occular toxicity.

Tamox + Tore has been my best PCT to date and I have another run coming up.

[Swifto]

clomid stimulates production of GnRH (produced by hypotahlimus)
Nolvadex stimultes production lh and fsh (pituitary gland)
Together they effect both parts of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis - which provdes greater benefit than just one or the other.
Summary : Together the work through diff pathways to more effectively restore hormonal function.

I dont know where this is from but its bullshit.

They work through the same pathways exactly.

They both work by ER antagonism at the hypothalamus and both raise GnRH, followed by LH/FSH that stimulates the leydig cells, germ and steroli cells in the testes to secrete testosterone and spermategensis.

Both Clomid and Tamox are not always needed in combination for PCT. There is no double-blind peer-reviewed study ANYWHERE on the combination being better than either alone. Only experience and Endo's patients experience. But thats enough for me to use both, not one just yet.

[Considering]

I know plenty of guys now who have run tam and tore PCT's based on this forums advice with no toxicity or noticeable/undesirable sides.

[layeazy]

Clomid always worked well however i keep the dosages under a 70 mg for me because of the vision sides

[Considering]

Clomid always worked well however i keep the dosages under a 70 mg for me because of the vision sides

So why keep taking it?

[kenton]

both

[Kouga53]

The consensus is that Tamox isn't too bad, but that's just cause it's cheap, effective and readily available. If people really knew, they would be more careful. Some of the highest enzyme numbers I ever got were from Clomid @ 50mg/day (that's about equal in toxicity to 15mg Tamox) But nobody ever listens.

It's well established just how toxic this stuff is. Thromboembolic issues are of primary concern, and your more likely to have a stroke the longer you use it. Ocular degeneration and retinopathy are also a problem. As are an increased association with need for cataract removal surgery in people who use it. Tamox also induces multinucleated giant cells and germinal epithelial sloughing in a dose-dependent manner and these changes are detrimental to male fertility. Ever notice libido issues on Tamox? As for the liver, memangiosarcoma, adenoma, fatty liver, and carcimona are long term effects that show up years after use. Desmosterol levels are also elevated showing direct interference with cholesterol biosynthesis. That may sound good but it's really not.

Basiclly, take letro and only use SERM's for PCT. Even then, never use any more that is needed. I can go on and on. Trust me on this one my friend, it's more toxic that everybody thinks. I even know one woman who had to have all of her teeth removed after starting Tamox therapy. That's after her hair fell out, and she didn't have anything else wrong with her before that. It's some weird **** and should not be used as causually as it is. Most people who have used it can probably think back and remeber strange things that made them uneasy about using it, if they are honest about it.

Bottom line, it was designed over 50 years ago to treat cancer patients.

I feel like your trying to scare people out of PCT, the Tamox monsters gunna assfuk you in your sleep kids!!! to be honest lol I got a tummy ache from it, but thats about as far as that went...

Just my $0.02 tho..

[KINGKONG]

The consensus is that Tamox isn't too bad, but that's just cause it's cheap, effective and readily available. If people really knew, they would be more careful. Some of the highest enzyme numbers I ever got were from Clomid @ 50mg/day (that's about equal in toxicity to 15mg Tamox) But nobody ever listens.

It's well established just how toxic this stuff is. Thromboembolic issues are of primary concern, and your more likely to have a stroke the longer you use it. Ocular degeneration and retinopathy are also a problem. As are an increased association with need for cataract removal surgery in people who use it. Tamox also induces multinucleated giant cells and germinal epithelial sloughing in a dose-dependent manner and these changes are detrimental to male fertility. Ever notice libido issues on Tamox? As for the liver, memangiosarcoma, adenoma, fatty liver, and carcimona are long term effects that show up years after use. Desmosterol levels are also elevated showing direct interference with cholesterol biosynthesis. That may sound good but it's really not.

Basiclly, take letro and only use SERM's for PCT. Even then, never use any more that is needed. I can go on and on. Trust me on this one my friend, it's more toxic that everybody thinks. I even know one woman who had to have all of her teeth removed after starting Tamox therapy. That's after her hair fell out, and she didn't have anything else wrong with her before that. It's some weird **** and should not be used as causually as it is. Most people who have used it can probably think back and remeber strange things that made them uneasy about using it, if they are honest about it.

Bottom line, it was designed over 50 years ago to treat cancer patients.

Got diagnosed with lymphedema..I got blacked out veins in my lower extremity's and the possibilty to have one of the blood clots caused by tamox release and give me a heart attack or stroke..All for the very little amount of tamox that I have used..I don't know how often this happens, but my doctor asked me (among other questions)if I had ever used nolvadex and had fessed up now I have to get treatments on my lower legs and feet and tattoo or get surgery over those black veins before summer..Didnt want to hijack the thread but wanted to say that who knows what these chemicals we put in our bodies are going to do to us down the line?It's scary to think about, isn't it?

[Swifto]

Got diagnosed with lymphedema..I got blacked out veins in my lower extremity's and the possibilty to have one of the blood clots caused by tamox release and give me a heart attack or stroke..All for the very little amount of tamox that I have used..I don't know how often this happens, but my doctor asked me (among other questions)if I had ever used nolvadex and had fessed up now I have to get treatments on my lower legs and feet and tattoo or get surgery over those black veins before summer..Didnt want to hijack the thread but wanted to say that who knows what these chemicals we put in our bodies are going to do to us down the line?It's scary to think about, isn't it?

Using Tamoxifen is often the lesser of 2 evils.

But your case is rare when compared to how often, who and what dose(s) of Tamox we (bodybuilders) use.

[charliemurphy229]

best pct for me is to use both chems.

[Kouga53]

If I had to choose between clomid or nolva I would definatly go with nolva it seems to do the job better than clomid.