My introduction, and some issues I have about natural limit.

[MuttonChop]

Hello there good folks,

I have been a lurker of these and many other forums for a while now. Let me tell you a bit about myself: I was very disinterested in bodybuilding until about one year ago. Since then, I have given it everything I got. I can safely say that I have surpassed my friends (all varsity athletes and/or bodybuilders) in terms of determination, research, developing good habits, and etc. They are still bigger and leaner than me though, which brings me to:

I want to do a cycle of test soon. I know that a lot of people are going to flame me for talking about a cycle so soon in my training. Especially since this is my first post, I know that I need to thread (pun anyone? hehe) carefully. Therefore, here are some of my thoughts as to why I should do a cycle even though I am a beginner:

1) I know my stuff: I am studying Electrical Engineering and also doing a double degree in Commerce at a reputed University right now. I have very good research skills, and the time management that goes along with it. If I ever do a cycle, you can be assured that I could also write a book about it.

2) I am 20 years old, but consider myself mature: A lot of BBers just seem to throw a number around about the appropriate age. If the age is being used as the determining factor of maturity, then sure, great. But what if maturity isn't a factor? Is there some real research that shows that a 18+ (or even 16+) old person's body is more damaged than a 26 year old's body when a cycle is done?

3) My friends have trained for years: i.e: I can get good coaching on correct lifts, and just generally have knowledgeable people to watch out for me.

4) My diet and rest is in order: I eat well. No help needed here. I have lost about 40 pounds of body fat and put on some good lean muscle (two different phases obviously).

I have some more things, but I don't want to bore anyone (yet...=P).

If you have read all of this, and wondering what help I need, then it is this: If I have everything down right, should I do a cycle to reach my natural limit FASTER?

You could also indirectly answer my question by telling me whether adding a test cycle to my already high teen natty test will give my QUICKER and BETTER gains. Sure, my natty test is high and awesome. But does that mean extra test wont be better for size and strength?

One last thing that is connected to my original question. Just because I use test now to reach my natty limit, does it mean that I cannot use a cycle to go above my natty? (Money issues aside for extra cycle needed for reaching natty limit).

Please do not post about feeling good about oneself or anything along those lines. Also, no need to call me lazy or a cheater.

I am really looking forward to some advice. And I am sorry if I come off as a bit negative in anyway at all during my first post ever. Thanks.

[marcus300]

If you start steroids you will shut down your natural testosterone levels, doing this at your age can give you some serious sides. Your HPTA isn't fully developed yet so by shutting this down you can cause it to never reach its peak or run at low test, this would create huge problems for you for the rest of your life, unable to get erections, mood swings,depression, testicle atrophy etc.

Steroids are not the answer but using your natural high test is to your advantage, dont shut this system down before its fully up and running.

You also need more time in the gym, 12 months isnt that long to build a base for steroids, it takes yrs.

What are your stats?

[MuttonChop]

Thanks for the reply Marcus. Would PCT not bring back my natural high test levels? Also, I feel like that this is a case of reverse onus, but would you be able to provide a reliable source that states that the HPTA systems are not fully developed till x age?

As for the time in the gym, I understand that I need waaaaay more years at the gym. But, a head start was my intent.

Stats:
6 feet
170 lbs @ 14% BF
Current Program: HST

[marcus300]

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.

[marcus300]

Your also very light, 170lbs is no base to start steroids. Even if you did do steroids you would lose all the gains after the cycle because you dont have a diet to support this new tissue, it takes yrs to build a foundation and at 6 foot you have a lot more growing to go. I advice you to look into your diet and start eating like a bodybuilder and build a base for the next 4yrs at least.

[MuttonChop]

Thank you. I shall heed your advice. I did get into this for living a healthy life down the road and dying without any ailments.

I do get a bit irritated when people say something like "your diet wont support the new tissue..." thinking that the person asking the question is too stupid. If I start putting on new tissue, I would obviously increase my calories + protein based on LBM. Or am I missing something here?

How do I figure out a base? Is this advice given because of the tendons, ligaments, joints, etc not being able to catch up to increases of muscle?

One last thing. I thrive on having advantages. Call me a prick if you will, but I like having a slight advantage and am willing to take some risks. I already agreed with you to no do a test cycle, test being the safest base to start off with. But, will a slightly anabolic oral give me ANY advantage at all. Like Creatine (I know that this isnt anabolic, and I already take it), for example. It does not directly affect your lasting gains, but does so indirectly by helping your workouts.

[ANIMAL]

I will 100% agree with marcus, especially given your height and weight. You're still very young and with diet and hard work you can put on a lot more weight and size naturally.

Years of hard work, determination, dedication is the only way to become a lawyer. Bachelor degree, passing LSATs, passing law school and then passing the bar exam is how you have to do it, there's no short cut. If people tried to take an easier approach (cheating) and not have a foundation with good education, then when they enter the real world practicing law, all those years are wasted because you never learned or retained a thing. Same thing goes for your situation. Put in the hard work, gain all the knowledge you can from research, both on the internet and in the gym first and when the time comes you'll have a great foundation to work with and exceed every expectation you have/had for yourself. You don't get extra points by exceeding your friends, don't do this for bragging rights.

Hope that was a good analogy. And to give you an idea of a foundation, you're 8 inches taller then I am, and I weigh ~172lbs. Edit: I lifted/educated myself 3 years before doing my first cycle, and that was a few years ago and I'm still learning.

[MuttonChop]

I probably shouldn't bump this up unnecessarily, but just wanted to thank Marcus and b23.

You guys are completely right. I am simply going to concentrate on lifting and eating well for a few years. I'll still be around here though, soaking up the knowledge for when I am ready.

Bye!

[funkymonk]

I know you already got your question answered, but think about it like this too. If you have to ask for validation from anonymous figures on an internet message board, I think you already know the answer in regards to if "you're ready" or not.

Good decision man. I feel the same way and was about to do a cycle about 6 months. Literally had everything on my desk ready to go, and then decided against it. I'm glad I did.