Helping Japan..... Pros and Cons

[terraj]

It's not my counrty.

I'm just here to help you guys see....

[Times Roman]

I thought you'd have a rebuttal. I know your interest in this, so I'll leave it alone.

I will say that my exposure to the Japanese, and the asians, is more than brief and more than casual.

I will admit, on a social level, the Japanese can be very charming and pleasant.

Regarding the Chip, Terraj. You may be right. But it wasn't there a few years ago. It grew only after having been involved heavily with the Japanese over several years, and with many personal experiences with not only myself, by my western associates as well. I lived in Korea and worked with the Koreans, and came away with a different perspective.

Although I will say the Koreans were involved in technology and intellectual property theft also. Same as the Chinese. Chinese maybe even more so, I'm not sure.

[Times Roman]

Guys, I'm not going to blast terraj. I respect him and his opinions. he has every right to express them as any of us.

[terraj]

I thought you'd have a rebuttal. I know your interest in this, so I'll leave it alone.

I will say that my exposure to the Japanese, and the asians, is more than brief and more than casual.

I will admit, on a social level, the Japanese can be very charming and pleasant.

Regarding the Chip, Terraj. You may be right. But it wasn't there a few years ago. It grew only after having been involved heavily with the Japanese over several years, and with many personal experiences with not only myself, by my western associates as well. I lived in Korea and worked with the Koreans, and came away with a different perspective.

Although I will say the Koreans were involved in technology and intellectual property theft also. Same as the Chinese. Chinese maybe even more so, I'm not sure.

It's hard to rebut personal experinces man, sorry you had such a hard time with their culture, it can be brutal and I know it is so different from our respective cultures. I would never work for a Japanese company, however everybody who works for me in Japan is Japanese and I have made many great relationships from doing business here, but I have also been fvcked over big time on parternships with Japanese...such is life.

[lovbyts]

Guys, I'm not going to blast terraj. I respect him and his opinions. he has every right to express them as any of us.

I agree. I hope no one is asking you to via PM, that's just chicken. I am only doing the same as terraj. I agree to disagree. We all have our points and our reasons. Japans current situation has very little or nothing to do with my opinion, I have though the same for many years due to seeing how the US is dammed if you do and dammed if you dont and how in debt we are. Like it was said, how can we keep giving what we dont have?

[Times Roman]

it was brutal.

I will say in your case, having japanese subordinates is different than being a subordinate of a Japanese executive. My japanese members that worked for me thought I was great... took em to football games, took time to teach them many things, over to the house.....

[cro]

bro i was over in okinawa and there are tons of people in there 100s there.these are good people .i see were people are going with the deficit and all that .but this is humanity and there is little kids walking the streets with no water .money means absolutely nothing in this big picture.ive been involved in a few humanitarian missions . AND this rates one for sure . these are good people.

Wrong.

Japan will have an estimated 105 million people by 2050, down from 127 million in 2005. Japan is fast becoming the world’s oldest ever human population.

[Flagg]

Pros: It's the right thing to do. It show's solidarity throughout the human race to contribute and support another country in plight. Japan is also the third largest economic power by GDP and purchasing power. As the 4th largest exporter in the world and the 5th largest inporter in the world, from an economic point of view it makes sense to get them back on track again. For them personally, prehaps they should rethink about using nuclear power stations to power their country and consider alternative sustainable energy for the future. It works for places like France because they are not near any fault lines, but this earthquake is like the perfect storm. Not only did a tsunami ensue which hit everything around it in the pacific region, but the added threat of nuclear reactors going off is grave. Nuclear fall out could reach American shores from Japan in less than 10 days.

Cons: Huge amounts of financial aid is going to be required to get Japan on track again, aid that no one can really afford to give right now. But it's not some 3rd World country, saying "fvck Japan" is going to make the global economy worse. Can you imagine if the EU decided "yeah fvck Greece and Ireland, why should we care?".

The world cannot afford to not bail out Japan, and paradoxically we cannot afford to bail out Japan either. This couldn't have come at a worse time and it quite literally is a "Perfect Storm". Tough times are ahead.

[Times Roman]

bro i was over in okinawa and there are tons of people in there 100s there.these are good people .i see were people are going with the deficit and all that .but this is humanity and there is little kids walking the streets with no water .money means absolutely nothing in this big picture.ive been involved in a few humanitarian missions . AND this rates one for sure . these are good people.

my heart bleeds for every injustice and tragedy on the planet. In one way or another, every country has huge problems.

No doubt these are very good people.

Here is a very sobering, intense couple of questions:

Do you think we have the resources to save EVERYBODY on this planet?

Do you think it is a proper role for tax payer dollars (my dollars) to take on such a huge responsibility?

If you believe we do NOT have the financial resources to save EVERYBODY on this planet, then by what method do we allocate our resources to help those in need? Lottery? Favoritism? Closest to home? Only those with a strategic interest to the US?

The reality is we let millions die every year that don't necessarily have to. The reason they do die, indirectly, is someone is making a choice as to whether or not they should be helped.

You base your comment on the proximity of these people to you. You can see them and their misery. And this effects you personally. So therefore you have an emotional stake invested in your comment. But 99.99% of us here do NOT share your same insight or emotional investment. Therefore, we must employ some other method of making this decision. To us, this situation is more or less the same as the situation in Liberia, or Afghanistan, or countless other places all over the world. Even mexico, which is very close to home for some.

I am an accountant. And I understand what it means to spend with your heart when your back pocket can't cover the bill. What we are talking about, true enough, is the bankruptcy of the United States at some point. It is always easy to say we will get this thing under control next time. But there is never a next time. We only have here and now. At some point we have to start making really tough decisions if we want to save ourselves. And let me tell you, if we continue on our present course, we, as a country, are cooked!

[Times Roman]

At what point do we put ourselves, our families, our neighbors, our communities, and the USA ahead of others for a change?

[Times Roman]

There are options. For example, instead of below market loans and free money, why not equity swaps? Bond forgiveness. I wouldn't mind so much if we could structure this thing more like a business would instead of a charity

[terraj]

I understand if you are against helping Japan get back on it's feet. But you are also against humanitarian emergency assistance ?

[Times Roman]

There are limits to everything.

Somehow, we are so arrogant to think we are so rich and powerful that we can help anyone/everyone.

As I mentioned above, I think that if we put our ego in check and thought with our wallets, we'd realize that instead of handouts, there should be some kind of a return to the american people. I am not trying to be Xenophobic here, just trying to get people to understand that the current mechanism is this

USA Borrows money and has to repay it, and it turn...
USA provides relief in a variety of forms, beneficiary does not have to pay it back

I totally get the emotional desire to help.

Nobody wants to look at the financial side of this and figure out how we pay for this besides borrowing more money.

Here's how our current financial and fiscal policies currently work in the USA

When times are prosperous, tax cuts and increased spending
When times are dire, tax cuts and increased spending

Terraj, I have absolutely no problem with Humanitarian emergency assistance on a personal level. individuals can do as they please. Churches can do as they please. But my effective tax rate on everything is about 50% of everything I make. When governments decide for me what to do with MY MONEY, then yes, I take this very personally. What happens when my effective rate goes to 60%... or 70%? What then? are we still the white knight savior to the world?

It is my belief that it is NOT a proper role of government to take my money and give it away to other nations. We have been hypnotised into thinking this is all ok since most of us have disposable income at the end of the month. But when you start adding up ALL the money they take from you, involuntarily, it is disturbing.

There will always be a crusaide for the government to throw money at. When do we start crusaiding to save ourselves?

[Times Roman]

the world acts a certain way because the american people have trained them to believe that we will come to the rescue with our dollars....

... remember! subsidize what you want.

[cro]

wtf are you talking about.i will die knowing ive saved lifes and taken lifes live with that. live with that im as hard as at it gets in side.ive went into homes after we lit them up and seen pictures of jesus hanging on the wall live with that and the bodys of children in the house.MONEY MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING>

the world acts a certain way because the american people have trained them to believe that we will come to the rescue with our dollars....

... remember! subsidize what you want.

[Times Roman]

wtf are you talking about.i will die knowing ive saved lifes and taken lifes live with that. live with that im as hard as at it gets in side.ive went into homes after we lit them up and seen pictures of jesus hanging on the wall live with that and the bodys of children in the house.MONEY MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING>

I admire that and respect that. That is your personal choice. You can do anything you want with your personal finances and your personal time. The American Red Cross is an excellent vehicle for this.... and I'm sure that as a person of conviction, you've probably already donated heavily out of YOUR pocket for the people of Japan.

The issue is not with YOUR personal finances. The issue is with MY personal finances, and collectively, everybody's personal finances.

Here is an excerpt from something I sent someone else on this subject:

"This issue seems to be in a blind spot for most people. Of course at an emotional level we all want to help. At an individual level, people are reluctant to pry open their personal wallets and donate. Why should it be any different for our government? Somehow, when the government spends it, it doesn't really seem real. It's "other people's money".

I have an idea. To make this very real for people, I propose we do away with employers withholding payroll taxes, and let the citizens cut the check themselves out of their own personal accounts every year. Say I make $100k. My check i would have to write would be $35k. NOW it becomes very very real. NOW people feel the pain of government spending. NOW people get pissed if their government acts irresponsibly with thier tax dollars."

[cro]

i dont care if people donate or not . just dont bash it.karma is a bit--. not that any bad karma is coming anyones way .but you know were im going.i just feel for the people. they are generally kind hearted hard working people who value family.(just think about it everytime you see these people there taking a family photo)..lollol

I admire that and respect that. That is your personal choice. You can do anything you want with your personal finances and your personal time. The American Red Cross is an excellent vehicle for this.... and I'm sure that as a person of conviction, you've probably already donated heavily out of YOUR pocket for the people of Japan.

The issue is not with YOUR personal finances. The issue is with MY personal finances, and collectively, everybody's personal finances.

Here is an excerpt from something I sent someone else on this subject:

"This issue seems to be in a blind spot for most people. Of course at an emotional level we all want to help. At an individual level, people are reluctant to pry open their personal wallets and donate. Why should it be any different for our government? Somehow, when the government spends it, it doesn't really seem real. It's "other people's money".

I have an idea. To make this very real for people, I propose we do away with employers withholding payroll taxes, and let the citizens cut the check themselves out of their own personal accounts every year. Say I make $100k. My check i would have to write would be $35k. NOW it becomes very very real. NOW people feel the pain of government spending. NOW people get pissed if their government acts irresponsibly with thier tax dollars."

[auslifta]

How ironic, here is times roman saying america should not get involved with aid in another country as there are local problems that america need to focus on. Coming from the man that jumped ship to be in Afganistan to earn more money. America spends billions more being involved in Iraq and Afganistan than it does sending aid to natural disaster zones. So times roman thinks its ok to spend billions being in other countries, losing good men to IED's, I guess he thinks as long as companies and rich people can make money it's ok. While donating choppers to help abandoned people out of floods is a bad thing. My view of you times roman has changed.

Oh just to back up what has been said, America flat out refused other countries help during Katrina, I guess the politicians were too pround and it would have been seen as weak to accept help.

[auslifta]

Times roman on Japan-Fvck Japan, they can look after themselves.

Times roman on Afganistan and iraq-Lets get involved and spend billions, america-fvck yeah!

[bruary17]

People don't choose to be poor...THATS ABSURD!!!!

Your capacity to understand the things I say really sucks.

How many clean, honest, drug free people do you see on the street? Homelessness is a result 99.9% in direct relation to substance abuse...and an all around way of life that is chosen by those particular individuals.

When I get approached by a homeless person and they say: "Can you spare some change". I reply simply: Change comes from within, brother.

[Flagg]

How ironic, here is times roman saying america should not get involved with aid in another country as there are local problems that america need to focus on. Coming from the man that jumped ship to be in Afganistan to earn more money. America spends billions more being involved in Iraq and Afganistan than it does sending aid to natural disaster zones. So times roman thinks its ok to spend billions being in other countries, losing good men to IED's, I guess he thinks as long as companies and rich people can make money it's ok. While donating choppers to help abandoned people out of floods is a bad thing. My view of you times roman has changed.

Oh just to back up what has been said, America flat out refused other countries help during Katrina, I guess the politicians were too pround and it would have been seen as weak to accept help.

It's a fvcking appalling state of affairs that America goes to war, simply so Colt can make money, Generals and Captains of Industry can make money, all the while allied soliders and Iraqi civilians are getting blown to bits as a consequence.

That there is a real fvcking disaster. Only that disaster makes certain people rich.

[BgMc31]

Your capacity to understand the things I say really sucks.

How many clean, honest, drug free people do you see on the street? Homelessness is a result 99.9% in direct relation to substance abuse...and an all around way of life that is chosen by those particular individuals.

When I get approached by a homeless person and they say: "Can you spare some change". I reply simply: Change comes from within, brother.

Dude, don't attempt to insult my intelligence because I don't agree with your absurd statements. We can compare brain pans all day if you wish. And using the homeless as an example of your 'theory' is ridiculous. Homelessness isn't the only indicator of poverty. Do you even know what poverty level is?

[lovbyts]

Times roman on Japan-Fvck Japan, they can look after themselves.

Times roman on Afganistan and iraq-Lets get involved and spend billions, america-fvck yeah!

I must be illiterate because I have read through this thread 3x now and I cant see anywhere that Times Roman said fvck Japan in any way. Maybe you can point me to the proper post and quote it for me. Maybe it's next to the post where you say you only have sex with male 4 legged animals?

Maybe you should read his post in whole and not assume that you know what he is really thinking even though he says nothing of the sort in any of his post. As a matter of fact I didnt see where anyone said fvck Japan or any of it's people. I only read where people had op-pinons on if we can afford to help them financially or continue to try to police the whole world.

Now if you would consider editing your post to something that is more accurate I would very much like to do the same with this post.

[auslifta]

I must be illiterate because I have read through this thread 3x now and I cant see anywhere that Times Roman said fvck Japan in any way. Maybe you can point me to the proper post and quote it for me. Maybe it's next to the post where you say you only have sex with male 4 legged animals?

Maybe you should read his post in whole and not assume that you know what he is really thinking even though he says nothing of the sort in any of his post. As a matter of fact I didnt see where anyone said fvck Japan or any of it's people. I only read where people had op-pinons on if we can afford to help them financially or continue to try to police the whole world.

Now if you would consider editing your post to something that is more accurate I would very much like to do the same with this post.

Its called paraphrasing, he said American government should not get involved in helping Japan. Sure after he back peddled after hearing other opinions he said aid should only be sent on a personal level. They dont need money as much as choppers and medics in the area. He kept his cards close to his chest until he knew he might have some back up. Did you not read my previous post???

[auslifta]

If he doesnt like how US gov spend money then he has options as do all of you. You live in a democracy, and your foreign policy is supposed to be a reflection of your people. That may not always be true.
Did times roman not say he does not agree with sending aid?- thats what I meant about him saying "fvck japan, they can look after themselves" as that was his reasoning.

[auslifta]

I must be illiterate because I have read through this thread 3x now and I cant see anywhere that Times Roman said fvck Japan in any way. Maybe you can point me to the proper post and quote it for me. Maybe it's next to the post where you say you only have sex with male 4 legged animals?

Maybe you should read his post in whole and not assume that you know what he is really thinking even though he says nothing of the sort in any of his post. As a matter of fact I didnt see where anyone said fvck Japan or any of it's people. I only read where people had op-pinons on if we can afford to help them financially or continue to try to police the whole world.Now if you would consider editing your post to something that is more accurate I would very much like to do the same with this post.

Can you see the irony? He disagrees with sending help by the means of search and rescue crews, yet he is happy to go work in Afganistan where th US is spending billions, and allied troops are being lost every day.

[lovbyts]

Its called paraphrasing, he said American government should not get involved in helping Japan. Sure after he back peddled after hearing other opinions he said aid should only be sent on a personal level. They dont need money as much as choppers and medics in the area. He kept his cards close to his chest until he knew he might have some back up. Did you not read my previous post???

I totally disagree. You are reading more into it than what is there I'm sure. You are not having an open mind at all or allowing anyone else to have an opinion without becoming emotionally attached to the subject and being quick to judge without reading all or knowing all the facts.

Do you generally think this of Times Roman or are you letting your emotions take place of logic? Do you notice that not even Terraj is having an issue with what Times Roman having his opinion so why are you?

Yes I read your other post, I also though WTF about that one because again you are judging someone you dont know, you dont know the facts and you are condemning him because of his decision on how to make a living and feed his family? If I, Times Roman or anyone decide we think you are a traitor or??? because of your job choice are you going to quite?

Instead of spouting a bunch of crap how about using some facts and explain what is wrong with him being in Afghanistan as a contractor? What should he be doing instead? Is this what you are doing? You would turn down the same opportunity if it was offered to you as him even though it may be 4x what you currently make because you are above the need of money? Please explain.

Can you see the irony? He disagrees with sending help by the means of search and rescue crews, yet he is happy to go work in Afganistan where th US is spending billions, and allied troops are being lost every day.

Again, Please show me where he says this, where the quote is? It was right next to you loving male pigs, right? I can paraphrase all day long how you like to suck on pigs curly little weenies but how accurate would that be? I'm going over the top here to try to make you see that you are also going over the top and out of line. I hope you get it so we can both edit this crap out.

[auslifta]

we have given the japanese billions and billions of dollars... we rebuilt them after the war (didn't they attack us?), and now they are a major industrialize society (who do you think they ripped the technology off from?)

my opinion? individual donors can do anything they want, and I will support that decision 100%. as far as our tax paid government goes? japan is on thier own here mates. sorry, but my .02

Here you go lovebytes, he says "japan is on its own" basically "fvck japan"

[lovbyts]

Here you go lovebytes, he says "japan is on its own" basically "fvck japan"

LOL, you suck at your paraphrasing and understanding. This was put out there as a means of helping Japan without the US government FORCING more taxes on us as citizens to pay yet another uncontrollable debt/deficit. I guarantee I can go back through your many post and pick out one or two sentences here and there and turn you into DMS new love b*tch by your choice.

Come on, read what he is saying instead of trying to read in between the lines. LOL Did I miss something? Have you been at odds with Times Roman already? Did he steal Kawi from you or is there some type of penis envy thing going on? LOL Really I believe you are reading WAY to much into this and at the same time not reading what his is saying.

[auslifta]

Budget for the war In Iraq and Afganistan 2010 $37billion, toatal military budget 2010 $680billion,

Aid to japan-The aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan in the Western Pacific was ordered to the island nation. Other ships began making preparations to assist, including the Essex, a large-deck amphibious vessel equipped with helicopters. Two thousand Marines in Malaysia were ordered to be ready to move to Japan

All the aid being sent is already from the region, mainly things that are already being paid for to just be there anyway, and the types of things that are needed-rescue crews, medics, choppers. So don't go saying "we should spend money on health care, university, roads and debt rather than foreign aid. When in reality billions more is being spent on wars, money that could solve alot of americas current problems. The reason the wars go ahead are because the people that make personal gain from them are the rich and powerful people/companies that fund elections. That is why the US doesn't have a demoracy, I'm sure the intelligent people would rather have schools, healthcare, infrastructure and commonwealth rather than the current distibution of wealth.

[bruary17]

Dude, don't attempt to insult my intelligence because I don't agree with your absurd statements. We can compare brain pans all day if you wish. And using the homeless as an example of your 'theory' is ridiculous. Homelessness isn't the only indicator of poverty. Do you even know what poverty level is?

The question is do you know what poverty is?? Let me break it down real simple for you...poverty is the lack of basic human needs, such as clean and fresh water, nutrition, health care, education, clothing and shelter...all that which is attainable through the CHOICES you make. (keywords: Attainable/Choices)

If you were to strip me of all my material possessions...my home, my truck, my clothes, my dignity...and you placed me in the middle of the desert...what are my choices...I can wallow in a pool of self pity...or I can inch my way back to my previous status through hard work and perseverance. Hence: Homelessness is a choice.

Do you know what the unemployment rate is among the poverty stricken? How about the drug distribution/activity? Look up those stats, homey. Tell me what you find...poverty stricken individuals are those of lower social status (scumbags) who choose that lifestyle. Your destination is your choice.

I'm all done talking with you about this now since you haven't brought up a single intelligent argument for anything you've stated.

[auslifta]

LOL, you suck at your paraphrasing and understanding. This was put out there as a means of helping Japan without the US government FORCING more taxes on us as citizens to pay yet another uncontrollable debt/deficit. I guarantee I can go back through your many post and pick out one or two sentences here and there and turn you into DMS new love b*tch by your choice.

Come on, read what he is saying instead of trying to read in between the lines. LOL Did I miss something? Have you been at odds with Times Roman already? Did he steal Kawi from you or is there some type of penis envy thing going on? LOL Really I believe you are reading WAY to much into this and at the same time not reading what his is saying.

You keep trying to make me bite and lower myself to your childish level by the personal attacks. I'm not going into that. If you want to have a grown up discussion, I'm willing to that.

I'm not reading into anything. Does he think aid should be sent-no.

[auslifta]

I'm going over the top here to try to make you see that you are also going over the top and out of line. I hope you get it so we can both edit this crap out.

When was I ever going over the top and out of line? My original post was simply pointing out the irony of TR being against aid being sent to Japan and working in Afganistan, private company or not. If you don't see the irony in that, especially with the cost of Afganistan vs the cost of aid, you are clearly less intelligent than I gave you credit for.

[bruary17]

You keep trying to make me bite and lower myself to your childish level by the personal attacks. I'm not going into that. If you want to have a grown up discussion, I'm willing to that.

I'm not reading into anything. Does he think aid should be sent-no.

Really lovbyts, your childish comments are just uncalled for...makes auslifta look ten times brighter than you.

[BgMc31]

The question is do you know what poverty is?? Let me break it down real simple for you...poverty is the lack of basic human needs, such as clean and fresh water, nutrition, health care, education, clothing and shelter...all that which is attainable through the CHOICES you make. (keywords: Attainable/Choices)

If you were to strip me of all my material possessions...my home, my truck, my clothes, my dignity...and you placed me in the middle of the desert...what are my choices...I can wallow in a pool of self pity...or I can inch my way back to my previous status through hard work and perseverance. Hence: Homelessness is a choice.

I'm all done talking with you about this now since you haven't brought up a single intelligent argument for anything you've stated.

Actually I do understand poverty much more than you since I deal with impoverished kids on a daily basis. And sense you don't understand poverty (your example of being dropped in the middle of the desert minus resources equating to homelessness is overly simplistic and ridiculous). But if you wish to debate the topic. Let's examine your original post of 'Poverty is a choice in this country'. The Appalachian region of the United States is one of the most impoverished areas of this country. Even the ones employed in those areas (coal industry is one of the largest employers in the area). Even those employed in that industry live below the poverty line. Schools in that area are below standards so a 4.0 gpa isn't the same as a 4.0 gpa in Madison, WI. These people have very little chance of going to college. So a child growing up in those conditions where there a limited to no options, what is that child to do. He/she grows up and gets gainful employment in the predominant industry of the area and still lives below the poverty level. Did he or she choose to live in poverty, or the lack of resources (ie environment) dictate his poverty?

Check you resources on homelessness, a large portion are mentally ill. Did these people choose to be homeless. And the fact that you keep zeroing in on homelessness proves that you don't understand and are ignorant of what poverty truly is. No one in their right mind wants to be poor. You are correct some people's choices cause them to live in poverty, but also the lack of resources cause just as much poverty, if not moreso, than those choices. Get a clue!

And what intelligent thought have you posted? All you've posted in your mindless opinion that has absolutely no basis in fact. Like I said, we can debate brain pans all day. Opinion doesn't equate intelligence. As a matter of fact, in your case, it proves otherwise.

[bruary17]

When was I ever going over the top and out of line? My original post was simply pointing out the irony of TR being against aid being sent to Japan and working in Afganistan, private company or not. If you don't see the irony in that, especially with the cost of Afganistan vs the cost of aid, you are clearly less intelligent than I gave you credit for.

Your point is clear and evident, auslifta. I see the irony and I agree with you...everyone can see lovbyts lost his credibility with the stupid comments he was making.

[lovbyts]

When was I ever going over the top and out of line? My original post was simply pointing out the irony of TR being against aid being sent to Japan and working in Afganistan, private company or not. If you don't see the irony in that, especially with the cost of Afganistan vs the cost of aid, you are clearly less intelligent than I gave you credit for.

Im not worried about what you think about my intelligence. Ill just wait for Times Roman to jump in and see what he has to say. we will see if he agrees with your interpretation of what you think his opinion is or not.

[jimmyinkedup]

You know if anyone in the US wants to dig into their own pockets and help...by all means do so. If you have the means and you feel that is the best use of your generousity...go for it. Our government...cant afford to..period...end of story.

I personally donate time and resoiurces i can to local causes...because i think that should be a priority...so i make it mine. Thats MY choice ...everyone can make their own...i have a hard time seeing people in my back yard needing and struggling to eat or put a roof over their head to send money 1/2 way around the world. I know it shoudlnt matter...but to me..it does.

Overall i feel the country needs to look inward...mind our own damn business...and get the mess in this country fixed.

Whoever said poverty is a choice should get on their knees and thank god they are so ignorant and blessed and so far removed from poverty that they dont evn have a clue what it is. Then they should make an effort to find out the truth and see if they can be a part of the solution. I have news for you ..do not think you are immune to poverty my friend. I voulenteer at a red cross shelter every weekend...know who i see there? Every walk of life. People that a year ago lived in $300,000 homes...now homeless. People that are lucky enough to have a roof over their head...but no food so they bring their children there on the weekends to eat.
I see people like you and me and anyone else here...you never know what life may throw your way....dont take your blessings and good fortunes for granted and absolve yourself of responsibility by making ignorant statments like poverty is a choice.
WTF.....

[bruary17]

Actually I do understand poverty much more than you since I deal with impoverished kids on a daily basis. And sense you don't understand poverty (your example of being dropped in the middle of the desert minus resources equating to homelessness is overly simplistic and ridiculous). But if you wish to debate the topic. Let's examine your original post of 'Poverty is a choice in this country'. The Appalachian region of the United States is one of the most impoverished areas of this country. Even the ones employed in those areas (coal industry is one of the largest employers in the area). Even those employed in that industry live below the poverty line. Schools in that area are below standards so a 4.0 gpa isn't the same as a 4.0 gpa in Madison, WI. These people have very little chance of going to college. So a child growing up in those conditions where there a limited to no options, what is that child to do. He/she grows up and gets gainful employment in the predominant industry of the area and still lives below the poverty level. Did he or she choose to live in poverty, or the lack of resources (ie environment) dictate his poverty?

Check you resources on homelessness, a large portion are mentally ill. Did these people choose to be homeless. And the fact that you keep zeroing in on homelessness proves that you don't understand and are ignorant of what poverty truly is. No one in their right mind wants to be poor. You are correct some people's choices cause them to live in poverty, but also the lack of resources cause just as much poverty, if not moreso, than those choices. Get a clue!

Are you joking? Seriously, is your rebuttal meant to be funny? Have you been to the Appalachian region? My best friend and his hippie girl friend moved to West Virginia to live the life of the Appalachian Trail. There is a massive lack of modernization there that's what drives most hippie/woodsman/live-off-the-land type of people there. CHOICE!!!! (There's that word again) For the vast majority of people who live there...it's a culture! Sure, it's classed as in poverty by today's standards...there is ZERO supply and demand due to the rural isolation and low population density!

Responding to you just got terribly boring. G'night.

[Times Roman]

I really don't know where to jump in at. The thread is all over the place.

I'm not sure why the need for me to defend myself here, but I'll take a stab at it....Regarding Afghanistan. I didn't create this environment. I came over here to help a friend solve a problem. I was very reluctant to come, but the money was good, so I said goodbye to my woman and children and made the trip. This was not a political decision on my part. It was simply an opportunity that presented itself to me. I am not responsible for what is happening here, the billions of dollars that are being wasted either. My project is renewable energy and energy efficiency. Solar street lights, electrifying clinics so women don't have to give birth by candle light at night. That sort of thing.

There is more than one vehicle for providing aid to Japan. I fully support helping Japan. But not at a governmental level with my tax dollars. If you spent the who knows how many hours it would take to read all these related threads, you'd see I've already asked Terraj to send me a link and I'll send $50 to help. If that's not enough, I'll send $100. I believe, as is my right to do so, that assistance should be on a voluntary level. How many of you are willing to crack open your dusty wallets and help? I'm guessing very few are really willing to do more than spout your mouth here, and keep your wallets in your pockets.

Here's the problem. People treat tax dollars as if it is "other peoples money". Other peoples money does NOT have the same value compared to your own money.

Here's a mental exercise to illustrate my point.

Suppose we prohibited employers from withholding payroll taxes, and instead, YOU had to write the IRS a check for your entire tax liablilty at the end of the year. Say you make $50k.... this would mean you would have to take your pen and check book out on April 15th and write a check for $17,500 dollars. Now this becomes YOUR money, and you feel the pain, you feel the anguish of paying real money for real taxes. Now the government wants to send $1billion in aid to Liberia. Assume 300m people, avg household is 4, so 75m households would have to come up with an additional $15. Not much you say. I agree. But now the same goes for Pakistan, but this time, it's 50b. Now you have to cut a check for $750 per household. But wait a minute! Suppose you can't afford this, or don't want to pay? In fact, we have a whole laundrey list of similar situations, so much so that you cannot realistically afford to pay for any of it. Can't afford to pay this? No problem says Obama... I'll just go borrow the money from my Chineese buddies, and your children can pay it back next generation.

For most of us... it really doesn't mean too much if we personally don't have to cut the checks out of our personal funds. BUT... if we did have to cut checks out of our personal funds, a sort of pay as you go type deal, then I guarantee you our whole perspective on what we spend real money on would change profoundly.

Now, for all you out there that are serious about helping Japan, please join me. Reach in your back pocket, pull your wallet out, and dig deep. These people need help. If we all contact Terraj and ask his opinion on how he felt the best way to help, collectively, we can make a difference.

Take some responsibility people. If you want something done, be proud, stand on your own two feet, and do it yourself!