Creatine FAQ

[izerkon]

Any benefits of taking with a simple sugar?
The concept is that you spike your insulin with a simple sugar like dextrose, maltodextrin, etc; it makes for a shuttling effect for the creatine. If there is a benefit it isn't significant enough to make a difference. This doesn't hold true for supplemental insulin. The only people I would suggest to take with a simple sugar like that is if they are an athlete who needs as much recovery as possible. Other than that it is a waste, after creatine is loaded all you are doing is maintaining your creatine stores. You don't need much creatine to maintain those levels and the body is very efficient when it comes to recycling what it already has.

IM708 - thanks for such an informative thread... would you please be able to help me with the quoted section?

from what i understand, creatine is transported by carbs? is that correct?

i have cell tech at the moment, and have grown to hate the taste.

so i am looking to buy a micronized creatine monohydrate....

ie. one where you just take a 5g serving (compared to cell techs huge servings, which includes 70g carbs...)

but (if my understanding is correct) you should have carbs with you pwo creatine?

in which case, i thought if i was to get a micronized creatine monohydrate, i should get something like dextrose or maltodextrin?

so my question:

are carbs necessary? what should i do...? buy a tub of non-fancy non-gimmick creatine, and take it with....?

thank you for your time mate

[IM708]

from what i understand, creatine is transported by carbs? is that correct?

No, the idea of taking with simple carbs is to help 'shuttle' creatine into the body.

so i am looking to buy a micronized creatine monohydrate....

ie. one where you just take a 5g serving (compared to cell techs huge servings, which includes 70g carbs...)

Stuff i always recommend, AST micronized CM.
http://www.1fastx400.com/?products_id=1431 <--- remove 'x'

but (if my understanding is correct) you should have carbs with you pwo creatine?

It's not necessary, you will peak at same intra muscular creatine level no matter if you take with carbs or not.

[RoadToRecovery]

What happens when I come off of creatine?
Nothing! What do you think will happen? Lose all your strength and muscle gains as some retards on websites will report?...NO! Over a period of a couple weeks you will lose several pounds on the scale which is solely water weight due to the depletion of excess intramuscular creatine. It may appear that you loss muscle mass simply due to the fact you lost a bunch of bloat weight, but it's all in your head. No loss of strength or muscle mass, you're an idiot if you think otherwise.

You will lose strength after coming off of creatine.

Creatine supplementation has a proven effect on ATP and CP stores which are directly responsible for anaerobic contraction. Once you cease Creatine supplementation and your levels drop, so do ATP and CP stores. In certain studies, creatine supplementation was directly responsible for up to %57 increase in 1RM.

[RoadToRecovery]

No, the idea of taking with simple carbs is to help 'shuttle' creatine into the body.


Stuff i always recommend, AST micronized CM.
http://www.1fastx400.com/?products_id=1431 <--- remove 'x'
It's not necessary, you will peak at same intra muscular creatine level no matter if you take with carbs or not.

Carbohydrates help retain a higher level of creatine in the body. So, yes it is necessary.

[RoadToRecovery]

Here is the list of studies I think you should take a look at... alot of your information is a bit faulty.

1. Casey A, Greenhaff PL. "Does dietary creatine supplementation play a role in skeletal muscle metabolism and performance?" Am J Clin Nutr 2000;72(suppl):607S-17S
2. Okudan N., Gokbel H. "The effects of creatine supplementation on performance during the repeated bouts of supramaximal exercise." Am J Sports Med Physic Fit 2005 December;45(4):507-11
3. Kreider RB, Ferreira M, Wilson M, Grindstaff P, Plisk S, Reinardy J, Cantler E, Almanda AL. "Effects of creatine supplementation on the body composition, strength and sprint performance." Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1998 Jan;30(1):73-82
4. Vandenberghe K, Goris M, Van Hecke P, Van Leemputte M, Vangerven L, Hespel P. "Long-Term creatine intake is beneficial to muscle performance during resistance training." J Appl Physiol December 1997 83:2055-2063
5. Bird, Stephen P. "CREATINE SUPPLEMENTATION AND EXERCISE PERFORMANCE: A BRIEF REVIEW" J Sports Sci Med 2000;72(suppl):607S-17S
6. Raweson ES, Volek JS. "Effects of creatine supplementation and resistance training on muscle strength and weightlifting performance." Title of Periodical Day Month Year: pages. Medium of publication.
7. Brose A, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA. "Creatine Supplementation Enhances Isometric Strength and Body Composition Improvements Following Strength Exercise Training in Older Adults." J GerontolA Biol Sci Med Sci 2003 58:b11-b19

[ProEvoDanny]

this has really opened my eyes are all the stuff ive been told about having to load etc.

[michael1991]

I've been looking up creatine and i'm hearing alot of stories that it causes hair loss, is this true?
can you clear this up for me?

[JuliusPleaser]

what about this new trinitine, creatine with malate attached to it..tri or di malate..either or, i was reading it on bodybuilding . com

[adwhit1]

Man this was great! Truly a breath of fresh air...

[tbody66]

Awesome thread.

[Tambit24]

Question about taking creatine. Just bought some Kre-Alk. Says take 1-2 in the am and 1-2 pre workout. U said consume it post workout. Jus curious if it matters and also, on off days, should I just take it just in the am, or do a second serving sometime in the afternoon?

[cwc5569]

I have a higher body fat %. I took creatine for years while playing football (I was about 30 pounds lighter then too) Just wondering if 100% Creatine Monohydrate would still be a viable option for me? I've heard it causes bloating from the additional water weight. Is this true??

[Lnh]

I use to sell that shit to people. Don't even bother with it. 60 fvcking servings for $40. Its called creatine hcl and is another one of the vast creatines that claim to be the best one on the market, the breakthrough product.

I've been trying to find evidence of the supposed clinical trials that have taken place that prove the HCl absorbs into the muscle tissue more effectively than standard Monohydrate. I've found the original author's name and the name of the paper, but I can't find it online and it's no longer on the ISSN site (where it was first published). Here it is...btw, the original paper was written and published by one of the patent holders on Creatine HCl, but I guess that's to be expected:
Donald W. Miller, Oral Bioavailability of Creatine Supplements: Is There Room for Improvement?

Is there any actual evidence one way or the other? I noticed you said you used to sell it, so I'm guessing you worked for GNC...did you ever see any of the data to back up their signs and clinical claims?

Personally I've seen little difference between the two...but I see very little difference between using creatine and not also.

[grappler11]

Can anyone elaborate on the bloating that creatine causes? I understand that creatine enables the muscles to hold more water, so when bloating is mentioned is it only muscles that are retaining more water, or is there visible water retention on the face, ankles ect.....like you just drank 5 liters of Dr. Pepper.

[Corpsman]

Is there any point in taking creatine when you are just starting to work out? The reason I am asking this is, in my case, I have not worked out for many years. I find that my problem is that I am strong for the first couple of reps, but my muscles fatigue quickly. I figure that persistence will pay off and my muscle fatigue will improve dramatically. So would you recommend not taking creatine until I get to a reasonable stabilized workout routine? Or do you think that adding creatine would help me get stabilized faster?

[InfiniteMuscle]

Good info on creatine. The most studied bodybuilding supplement!

[32liner]

im gonna start using creatine soon just wondering what u think of this product

http://www.maxs.com.au/index.php?sec...11&pageID=7040

do u think is all BS and i should just stick to monohydrate

[IM708]

im gonna start using creatine soon just wondering what u think of this product

http://www.maxs.com.au/index.php?sec...11&pageID=7040

do u think is all BS and i should just stick to monohydrate

Jesus there's a lot of shit in that product. The ignorant average buyer would eat those claims up. They must have gotten inspiration from muscletech for their concoction, most uneducated buyers have the mindset that it must work if it has all those ingredients (fillers). CEE is bogus, the "science" behind their claims doesnt make sense, at least they managed to get a single review since may 2009. Obviously a moron wrote out the text if they can't manage to spell "micronized" correctly.

Buy a tub of micronized creatine monohydrate and call it a day.

[Corpsman]

Is the bloat only in the muscles or is it all over? Should women take it? My wife is reading a book by Jackie Warner called "This is why your fat" and she touts the benefits of CEE over CM to avoid the bloated look that I am sure women don't want.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, what are your credentials to speak as an expert on this topic? Not saying you aren't, but if I am going to point to your information I would like to know who it is coming from.

[BORIQUENA76]

Hey Corpsman just to start I have no medical credentials....LoL, and this is more or less for your spouse. Creatine is an amino-acid like compound that occurs naturally in the muscle tissue. Taking in supplemental creatine helps increase the available amount of energy the body has to use, it also pumps water into the muscle cells increasing their size. It can be taken pre and post workouts. There are three types Citrate, Monohydrate and Phosphate. There is also a supposed "loading phase" and "maintenance phase" with usage so the intake may start as several times per day then taper off to perhaps once to twice a day dependent on one's needs. I dont really see a difference following the "loading and maintenance phases" that some brands may suggest. I prefer a simple micronized creatine monohydrate that is flavorless and without extra crap. I normally use AST Sports Science brand.

Perhaps someone can shed some light on the loading/maintenance phases if its even a factor but again I didnt think it made a difference to "load up" first and then taper off.

[Christopher_UK]

I'm also concerned about the bloating, I've always used creatine monohydrate and it's always bloated me, obviously because of the water retention, but I did appretiate my arms looking bigger, the pumps feeling better because of more water and I defo did have a small strength increase so all that was good. The only bad thing was my stomach was always bloated and made me look fatter then I would normally without.

My question is, I've heard of three creatines in the UK which are sold on UK website and shop shelves, they're called Kre-Alkalyn, creatine mono, and creatine ethyl ether, would "Alkalyn" or "ethyl ether" work better then mono and not cause bloating do you know?

Thanks in advance.

[Exevious]

Good read.. I hadn't taken my creatine mono.. cause the Noexplode has CEE...
Now I realize I need to go back to tossing a teaspoon of the mono back in with the protein shake.

PS: How old can mono get before its goes bad??

[Traurrige]

Czy ktos z was ma narty do jazd po piachu? Widzialem cos takiego w telewizji i tez chcialbym spróbowac.

[yogiart]

Thank you for this informative thread. It did answered many of my ??. Since this thread has started in 09 and now end of 2011, is there any new studies suggesting anything different than what you suggest?

Also one of my concerns is the effect on the kidneys/liver. We are not absolutely sure what long time use of creatine really does. I prefer to cycle it and consider it different from vitamins. Maybe 4 months on and 1-2 months off. Even with vitamins, some suggested to cycle them so the body always be able to absorb vitamins from food rather than from vitamins-ready.

Any thoughts on that?

[xxd1v3r]

very good info

[redcorn]

Experienced great results with just basic creatine monohydrate and Kaizen protein. January 2010 - 126lb and now october 2011 - 191lb. Just worked hard in the gym 4 times a week, ate healthy, didn't over train went from 160lb bench to 300lb, deadlift 380lb squat 400lb.

[ukcat2012]

Thank you for this great post. I have been using cell tech and never really did any studies on what i was actually taking. It would be much easier having micronized creatine monohydrate to mix it in with my protein shake and i think i am going to make the switch.

[Akrouz]

Thank you for a great post. Really opened my eyes back to creatine. Do I need to lower or up the dose when I begin injecting?

[Armykid93]

This is a fantastic thread. Thought I knew a lot about creatine. Apparently not.

[Armykid93]

Question about taking creatine. Just bought some Kre-Alk. Says take 1-2 in the am and 1-2 pre workout. U said consume it post workout. Jus curious ]if it matters and also, on off days, should I just take it just in the am, or do a second serving sometime in the afternoon?

I take 2 pills on off days with breakfast. Kre alkalyn rocks.

[Whammi]

Well done on this thread..... very informative

[BBrian]

I haven't used creatine in many years, but today I purchased a bottle of Sci-Fit's Kre-Alkalyn 1500...then I read this. What can you do?

At any rate, I recall several years ago creatine being marketed with the addition of alpha lipoic acid. I then recall alpha lipoic acid being readily available for purchase in nutrition stores. Was this, too, a load of bunk?

[BBrian]

Well, I didn't see any mention of alpha-lipoic acid in this thread, but I did find this research from September of 2003 to be fairly intriguing;

Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phosphagen concentration.
Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA, Candow DG.
Source
Department of Human Kinetics, St. Francis Xavier University, Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada B2G 2W5.
Abstract
Alpha-lipoic acid has been found to enhance glucose uptake into skeletal muscle in animal models. Studies have also found that the co-ingestion of carbohydrate along with creatine increases muscle creatine uptake by a process related to insulin-stimulated glucose disposal. The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of alpha-lipoic acid on human skeletal muscle creatine uptake by directly measuring intramuscular concentrations of creatine, phosphocreatine, and adenosine triphosphate when creatine monohydrate was co-ingested with alpha-lipoic acid. Muscle biopsies were acquired from the vastus lateralis m. of 16 male subjects (18-32 y) before and after the experimental intervention. After the initial biopsy, subjects ingested 20 g x d(-1) of creatine monohydrate, 20 g x d(-1) of creatine monohydrate + 100 g x d(-1) of sucrose, or 20 g x d(-1) of creatine monohydrate + 100 g x d(-1) of sucrose + 1000 mg x d(-1) of alpha-lipoic acid for 5 days. Subjects refrained from exercise and consumed the same balanced diet for 7 days. Body weight increased by 2.1% following the nutritional intervention, with no differences between the groups. There was a significant increase in total creatine concentration following creatine supplementation, with the group ingesting alpha-lipoic acid showing a significantly greater increase (p < .05) in phosphocreatine (87.6 --> 106.2 mmol x kg(-1) dry mass [dm]) and total creatine (137.8 --> 156.8 mmol x kg(-1) dm). These findings indicate that co-ingestion of alpha-lipoic acid with creatine and a small amount of sucrose can enhance muscle total creatine content as compared to the ingestion of creatine and sucrose or creatine alone.
PMID: 14669930 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Whammi]

WOW.... Great thread

[aronjrsmil]

So it does add bloated muscle? I thought it was mostly lean muscle it added....a lot of idiots say different things about this product...

[IM708]

Is the bloat only in the muscles or is it all over? Should women take it? My wife is reading a book by Jackie Warner called "This is why your fat" and she touts the benefits of CEE over CM to avoid the bloated look that I am sure women don't want.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, what are your credentials to speak as an expert on this topic? Not saying you aren't, but if I am going to point to your information I would like to know who it is coming from.

If you look at the first post at the bottom of it there are links to two studies on CEE and its ineffectiveness.

To the system I have no true credentials, but credentials are not everything. All my posts on here have to peer reviewed by people here and on other sites and have been researched, which I am content with. Also if it were bogus it probably wouldn't still be a sticky on this website.

Hey Corpsman just to start I have no medical credentials....LoL, and this is more or less for your spouse. Creatine is an amino-acid like compound that occurs naturally in the muscle tissue. Taking in supplemental creatine helps increase the available amount of energy the body has to use, it also pumps water into the muscle cells increasing their size. It can be taken pre and post workouts. There are three types Citrate, Monohydrate and Phosphate. There is also a supposed "loading phase" and "maintenance phase" with usage so the intake may start as several times per day then taper off to perhaps once to twice a day dependent on one's needs. I dont really see a difference following the "loading and maintenance phases" that some brands may suggest. I prefer a simple micronized creatine monohydrate that is flavorless and without extra crap. I normally use AST Sports Science brand.

Perhaps someone can shed some light on the loading/maintenance phases if its even a factor but again I didnt think it made a difference to "load up" first and then taper off.

No need to load or taper. This isn't hormonal in how it effects you.

I'm also concerned about the bloating, I've always used creatine monohydrate and it's always bloated me, obviously because of the water retention, but I did appretiate my arms looking bigger, the pumps feeling better because of more water and I defo did have a small strength increase so all that was good. The only bad thing was my stomach was always bloated and made me look fatter then I would normally without.

My question is, I've heard of three creatines in the UK which are sold on UK website and shop shelves, they're called Kre-Alkalyn, creatine mono, and creatine ethyl ether, would "Alkalyn" or "ethyl ether" work better then mono and not cause bloating do you know?

Thanks in advance.

That's answered already in the FAQ.

Good read.. I hadn't taken my creatine mono.. cause the Noexplode has CEE...
Now I realize I need to go back to tossing a teaspoon of the mono back in with the protein shake.

PS: How old can mono get before its goes bad??

Um idk. Long time though. It's pretty indestructible stuff.

Czy ktos z was ma narty do jazd po piachu? Widzialem cos takiego w telewizji i tez chcialbym spróbowac.

English...

Thank you for this informative thread. It did answered many of my ??. Since this thread has started in 09 and now end of 2011, is there any new studies suggesting anything different than what you suggest?

Also one of my concerns is the effect on the kidneys/liver. We are not absolutely sure what long time use of creatine really does. I prefer to cycle it and consider it different from vitamins. Maybe 4 months on and 1-2 months off. Even with vitamins, some suggested to cycle them so the body always be able to absorb vitamins from food rather than from vitamins-ready.

Any thoughts on that?

I honestly haven't researched studies recently. My 60+ hrs a week of work doesn't leave much time for anything. I answered the kidney Q in the FAQ. Cycling vitamins and creatine isn't necessary and that's answered as well. Your body needs vitamins or you will die, unless there's solid evidence of those claims, it sounds like junk bro science/speculation.

Experienced great results with just basic creatine monohydrate and Kaizen protein. January 2010 - 126lb and now october 2011 - 191lb. Just worked hard in the gym 4 times a week, ate healthy, didn't over train went from 160lb bench to 300lb, deadlift 380lb squat 400lb.

Doin work man, keep it up.

Thank you for this great post. I have been using cell tech and never really did any studies on what i was actually taking. It would be much easier having micronized creatine monohydrate to mix it in with my protein shake and i think i am going to make the switch.

Celltech, so damn expensive... and for nothing but fluff.

Thank you for a great post. Really opened my eyes back to creatine. Do I need to lower or up the dose when I begin injecting?

Nope, go nuts.

This is a fantastic thread. Thought I knew a lot about creatine. Apparently not.

Thank you much, glad you enjoyed.

Well done on this thread..... very informative

Thank you sir

Well, I didn't see any mention of alpha-lipoic acid in this thread, but I did find this research from September of 2003 to be fairly intriguing;

Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phosphagen concentration.
Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA, Candow DG.
Source
Department of Human Kinetics, St. Francis Xavier University, Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada B2G 2W5.
Abstract
Alpha-lipoic acid has been found to enhance glucose uptake into skeletal muscle in animal models. Studies have also found that the co-ingestion of carbohydrate along with creatine increases muscle creatine uptake by a process related to insulin-stimulated glucose disposal. The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of alpha-lipoic acid on human skeletal muscle creatine uptake by directly measuring intramuscular concentrations of creatine, phosphocreatine, and adenosine triphosphate when creatine monohydrate was co-ingested with alpha-lipoic acid. Muscle biopsies were acquired from the vastus lateralis m. of 16 male subjects (18-32 y) before and after the experimental intervention. After the initial biopsy, subjects ingested 20 g x d(-1) of creatine monohydrate, 20 g x d(-1) of creatine monohydrate + 100 g x d(-1) of sucrose, or 20 g x d(-1) of creatine monohydrate + 100 g x d(-1) of sucrose + 1000 mg x d(-1) of alpha-lipoic acid for 5 days. Subjects refrained from exercise and consumed the same balanced diet for 7 days. Body weight increased by 2.1% following the nutritional intervention, with no differences between the groups. There was a significant increase in total creatine concentration following creatine supplementation, with the group ingesting alpha-lipoic acid showing a significantly greater increase (p < .05) in phosphocreatine (87.6 --> 106.2 mmol x kg(-1) dry mass [dm]) and total creatine (137.8 --> 156.8 mmol x kg(-1) dm). These findings indicate that co-ingestion of alpha-lipoic acid with creatine and a small amount of sucrose can enhance muscle total creatine content as compared to the ingestion of creatine and sucrose or creatine alone.
PMID: 14669930 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Good stuff man, thanks for sharing.

So it does add bloated muscle? I thought it was mostly lean muscle it added....a lot of idiots say different things about this product...

No such thing as bloated muscle. The bloat is physics/water related. It helps you more effectively add lean mass.

[jomamathehoe]

great reading learning more on this website than i've ever in my 5 years of bb.

[STAN.]

CHEERS you saved me money.i like that. i can buy more chicken now.

[STAN.]

All im saying is if im hitting 2-3 extra reps per set than i usually could do, wouldnt that be followed by a bigger pump than i usually experience? ....Common sense to me bro .bang on buddy .some Guru . lol they make me lol...more loke a mcdonalds worker

[PumpMasterFlex]

Loved this. Thanks bro.