the amazement of tren

[Swifto]

no he does not, he plainly says 500iu's a week is of lil to no worth, please see the thread "pick apart my cycle"



yes he does, but he also mentions that the timing of these medications is the most important, and your timing is waaaay off sir, time for an update. honestly i would never have been this mean about it, im only dishing out what you give me. its not a bad thing that it needs to be updated, and your advice was not bad, but its def not the best.



everyone wants to cry fraud but has yet to show me 1 single post where i lied to anyone, I pride myself in bringing the most current knowledge to any and all AAS boards that I post on.

EDIT: not to mention you do not advice blasting HCG during the T decline, the second most important part of any PCT, next to timing.

What do you mean "being mean about it?". That would indicate you have upset me in some sort of way but all you have done is provide me, the members and most of the forum entertainment this evening... Sir.

When T decline's, (TT) or waiting for the ester to clear, I suggest you increase the HCG dose... I call it, "ramping". Its pretty self explanatory (well I thought it was).

The second part, ie. SERM treatment is based on the latest research done when 3 SERMs were compared (Tore/Tamox/Rolax). Below:

In a recent study done on Tamox, Tore and Rolax comparing HPTA restoration. Tamoxifen can out on top. In 8 weeks, 20mg/ED of Tamoxifen increased LH from 4.54 to 7.73 (+70%) and Test from 496.59 to 835.06 (+71%). After two months, 60mg/day of Toremifene increased LH from 4.05 to 5.05 (+25%) and Test from 496.59 to 709.79 (+42%).

I also advocate a front load of Tamox or Tore for the first 5-7 days.

So tell me, what an earth you have that is so cutting edge as all you are doing is following one Dr. and Dr.'s can and are wrong. I'm not saying Scally is, but I certainly do not put all my eggs in one basket.

[THE-DET-OAK]

What do you mean "being mean about it?". That would indicate you have upset me in some sort of way but all you have done is provide me, the members and most of the forum entertainment this evening... Sir.

When T decline's, (TT) or waiting for the ester to clear, I suggest you increase the HCG dose... I call it, "ramping". Its pretty self explanatory (well I thought it was).

The second part, ie. SERM treatment is based on the latest research done when 3 SERMs were compared (Tore/Tamox/Rolax). Below:

In a recent study done on Tamox, Tore and Rolax comparing HPTA restoration. Tamoxifen can out on top. In 8 weeks, 20mg/ED of Tamoxifen increased LH from 4.54 to 7.73 (+70%) and Test from 496.59 to 835.06 (+71%). After two months, 60mg/day of Toremifene increased LH from 4.05 to 5.05 (+25%) and Test from 496.59 to 709.79 (+42%).

I also advocate a front load of Tamox or Tore for the first 5-7 days.

So tell me, what an earth you have that is so cutting edge as all you are doing is following one Dr. and Dr.'s can and are wrong. I'm not saying Scally is, but I certainly do not put all my eggs in one basket.

well unfortunately due to the limited clinical information on PCT, I do have to put all my eggs in one basket for this one.

i only went and read the first page or 2 to your your thread. there is some great info in there, although 3 things I noticed in 45 seconds of reading, and please if you have updated since then just let me know.

#1 you told someone GH does nothing for HPTA restoration when in fact GH therapy has been shown to stimulate T synthesis.

#2 your ramping of HCG calls for 500iu's eod, when after a long heavy cycle, 1,000-2,500 iu's would be of much more benefit.

#3 since timing is the #1 reason for failed PCT's, I think you should amend your protocol. You state, like every other person on every board you will find, that stimulating endogenous LH and FSH production should be started 2 weeks after a cycle of test E or test C.

after a 12 week cycle of 600mgs, blood test's came back at up to 2800 ( do i need to post the study or has everyone seen this 1,000 times). Blood was drawn in relation to the half-life, 7 days after last injection. so we can assume that levels were around 5600 the day after your last shot. Now since the idea of ramping is to maximally stimulate T synthesis (and other actions at the pituitary) it would be better to over estimate the time to attempt to restart endogenous T production, so lets call it 6,000.

Now lets use a half-life of seven days, even though that is short by many definitions. 7 days after the last shot we will be at 3,000. 7 days after that we will be at 1500. this is when you want to attempt to start endogenous LH production???? wouldnt you think that with T levels this high be causing shut-down due to the negative feedback loop at this time????

now another 7 days 750, and another 375. Scally has written that this is the time, after androgen therapy, that the testicles will even attempt to restart naturally. thats 4 weeks using a very short half-life. im sorry that i keep referencing Scally, but i will now parrot from him. "there is no substitute for laboratory confirmation". so not only are you cutting SERM treatment short with this timing, you are also missing out on the most important time to run your HCG.

Let me ask you a question Swifto, have you ever had someone take a blood test during HCG treatment to see what doses effectively stimulate T????? if not i do not know how you could even begin to argue with this, cause Scally sure has, he has tested 1,000's of patients all throughout their protocol.

I dont have to be cycling for 20 years like dec, to realize this information is correct, besides since Scally publishes all his research, unlike many of the experts out there, what reason does he have to lie.

[Swifto]

well unfortunately due to the limited clinical information on PCT, I do have to put all my eggs in one basket for this one.

i only went and read the first page or 2 to your your thread. there is some great info in there, although 3 things I noticed in 45 seconds of reading, and please if you have updated since then just let me know.

#1 you told someone GH does nothing for HPTA restoration when in fact GH therapy has been shown to stimulate T synthesis.

#2 your ramping of HCG calls for 500iu's eod, when after a long heavy cycle, 1,000-2,500 iu's would be of much more benefit.

#3 since timing is the #1 reason for failed PCT's, I think you should amend your protocol. You state, like every other person on every board you will find, that stimulating endogenous LH and FSH production should be started 2 weeks after a cycle of test E or test C.

after a 12 week cycle of 600mgs, blood test's came back at up to 2800 ( do i need to post the study or has everyone seen this 1,000 times). Blood was drawn in relation to the half-life, 7 days after last injection. so we can assume that levels were around 5600 the day after your last shot. Now since the idea of ramping is to maximally stimulate T synthesis (and other actions at the pituitary) it would be better to over estimate the time to attempt to restart endogenous T production, so lets call it 6,000.

Now lets use a half-life of seven days, even though that is short by many definitions. 7 days after the last shot we will be at 3,000. 7 days after that we will be at 1500. this is when you want to attempt to start endogenous LH production???? wouldnt you think that with T levels this high be causing shut-down due to the negative feedback loop at this time????

now another 7 days 750, and another 375. Scally has written that this is the time, after androgen therapy, that the testicles will even attempt to restart naturally. thats 4 weeks using a very short half-life. im sorry that i keep referencing Scally, but i will now parrot from him. "there is no substitute for laboratory confirmation". so not only are you cutting SERM treatment short with this timing, you are also missing out on the most important time to run your HCG.

Let me ask you a question Swifto, have you ever had someone take a blood test during HCG treatment to see what doses effectively stimulate T????? if not i do not know how you could even begin to argue with this, cause Scally sure has, he has tested 1,000's of patients all throughout their protocol.

I dont have to be cycling for 20 years like dec, to realize this information is correct, besides since Scally publishes all his research, unlike many of the experts out there, what reason does he have to lie.

I'll be back when I have more time on your response Oak...

For one, when you reference a study, or alude to it, get your f*cking numbers right.

The study your referring to had TT at 2,370 ng/dl after 20 weeks of Test Enan at 600mg/wk.

May be your copy and paste skills arnt where I had them before.