Chinese HGH concerns

[Sc0rch]

scOrch - I appreciate that others agree with me and have had similar positive experiences with Chinese GH. However, i don't agree that staff member are less qualified than most doctors, when it comes to AAS or rHGH. The people who give their time and effort here have real life experience and have no agenda to promote either pharm or Chinese products, as this is not a source board/forum. Many Doctors do have an agenda to maintain control of all medicines, while maintaining their control and the monopoly, which equates to huge profits in their pockets.

1) You can't add 2 + 2.

2) Did you stop using your generic HGH? These staff members are telling you you're injecting a bunch of rouge chemicals and some IGF. If they're qualified then you should listen to them, stop, and start using their HGH. Otherwise, your comments are hypocritical.

[justify]

Can the Chinese be trusted? well they are the biggest counterfeiters in the world, they even poison their own to make money and they even produce and sell chemically produce eggs so can they be trusted!! it makes me laugh when i hear Blue tops are great, green tops are good to go and my Orange tops are very powefull, come on they are just coloured tops and anything could be inside those bottles.

The problem we have is that hgh results are very slow and many could well be fooled by the results of their cycles (AAS) they are using while running their GH, if the Chinese could mimic CTS and fill you with bloat and the numbness feeling then no one here would truly know they had fake. The only true way to finding out if your supplier is selling you 100% gh is to get it lab tested and who ever does that?

I remember years ago I was buying GH pens from a pharm in Spain and they were so expensive it was nearly impossible to run gh but the results were amazing, now was this just the right time for me to transform or was the gh a lot superior than the Chinese stuff floating around today. One thing is for sure there are various qualities of gh coming out of China and I feel its a hit or miss scenario.

Does anyone have a lab were GH can be tested because I am up for sending some to get it tested?

Hey Marcus, I have read all the posts in this thread. Is the same goes for AAS steroids? Are the Steroids coming from China Also Fake?
Your response would be appreciated.

[JimInAK]

1) You can't add 2 + 2.

2) Did you stop using your generic HGH? These staff members are telling you you're injecting a bunch of rouge chemicals and some IGF. If they're qualified then you should listen to them, stop, and start using their HGH. Otherwise, your comments are hypocritical.

I have not stopped using Chinese HGH and have heard no opinion that would cause me to do so. I do listen to and consider all opinions, while I assess those statements and claims. I accept them or reject all statements and form my own opinion based on my experience, along with facts that I know to be true.

I truly believe that the staff members are expressing their heartfelt beliefs. This forum grants people on both sides of any issue a free and unfettered opportunity to express those beliefs.

Respecting each members opinion makes this forum civil. Each of us may express their own opinion and anyone reading these forums can decide what they want to believe. While we share similar experiences regarding Chinese HGH, I don't agree that any person's opinion should be disregarded because we don't agree with it. Listening to both sides and respecting people with differing opinions should never be regarded as hypocritical.

I'm here to learn and to offer my opinion in support of the truth as I know it. Others have different opinions. Civility and open, honest debate is the best way for me to gain knowledge. I am confident enough in my position to defend it and responsible enough to listen to others who differ. If I had all the answers there would be no need for me to participate in this debate.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or hijacked this thread.

[NotSmall]

WOW! This thread is still growing and yet it does not appear to have advanced AT ALL in the last few months since I was last here!

The chinese GH enthusiasts are still spending money on their chinese GH on the basis of anecdotal evidence, GH-like side effects and flawed testing methods.

The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.

And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.

See you in another few months boys and girls...

[Fit N Fun]

NotSmall,

Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading.

There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago

Guy's,

Seems to me that you are going about this the wrong way, looking for anecdotal evidence of whether you have HGH

There are many people on here spending lots of money on HGH without a clue whether they have anything worthwhile injecting.

I sent a vial of HGH to a lab to have it tested for purity and whether it was 191 Amino Acids, this tells you most of what you need to know. I still need to find a way to test for the biological activity of the HGH

Here is part of the information provided from the test results.

· The protein concentration was very close to the concentration given by the manufacturer (experimental: 1.7 mg/ml, on the label: 1.6 mg/ml).

· SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure



·


· MALDI-TOF analysis confirms the purity assessment by SDS-PAGE. All three peaks show a shoulder with a mass difference of 206 Da – this is not due to an impurity, it is the result of the formation of an adduct with sinapinic acid, the matrix that was used for the MALDI-MS experiment.





·


· The observed molecular weight of 22125 ± 8 Da corresponds well with the expected molecular weight of 22130 for the 22 kDa form of human growth hormone (see http://www.expasy.org/cgi-bin/pi_too...27-217@average). This is the processed somatotropin with 191 amino acids.


To complete the picture, I need to find someone to test the biological activity of HGH, please if anyone knows if this test has a special name, can they let me know.

The cost for the above analysis was less than $250 and is IMHO a good investment to know that I am not injecting rubbish.

Before doing the above test, I contacted some of the board moderators to discuss what was being done.

I also feel it may also be possible for the mods to sort out a way where a number of us contribute to the cost of HGH sample analysis and pay a small fee to verify that their chosen supplier is selling quality gear.

[marcus300]

WOW! This thread is still growing and yet it does not appear to have advanced AT ALL in the last few months since I was last here!

The chinese GH enthusiasts are still spending money on their chinese GH on the basis of anecdotal evidence, GH-like side effects and flawed testing methods.

The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.

And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.

See you in another few months boys and girls...

Don't be misdirected by 2 members who have never used pharm grade and have only been using generics for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.

Things have advanced, there are more members/Mods/Vets who have tried pharm grade who can without doubt state that generics have been a waste of time and don't even compare to pharm grade. This is from experience from using generics for yrs and pharm grade. We can get generic/pharm grade hgh tested but we still come up against testing for the hormone to be active, the price for such test comes into the thousands and not hundreds and many of the generics companies know this.

I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again if they were free.

[marcus300]

NotSmall,

Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading.

There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago

Guy's,

Seems to me that you are going about this the wrong way, looking for anecdotal evidence of whether you have HGH

There are many people on here spending lots of money on HGH without a clue whether they have anything worthwhile injecting.

I sent a vial of HGH to a lab to have it tested for purity and whether it was 191 Amino Acids, this tells you most of what you need to know. I still need to find a way to test for the biological activity of the HGH

Here is part of the information provided from the test results.

· The protein concentration was very close to the concentration given by the manufacturer (experimental: 1.7 mg/ml, on the label: 1.6 mg/ml).

· SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure



·


· MALDI-TOF analysis confirms the purity assessment by SDS-PAGE. All three peaks show a shoulder with a mass difference of 206 Da – this is not due to an impurity, it is the result of the formation of an adduct with sinapinic acid, the matrix that was used for the MALDI-MS experiment.





·


· The observed molecular weight of 22125 ± 8 Da corresponds well with the expected molecular weight of 22130 for the 22 kDa form of human growth hormone (see http://www.expasy.org/cgi-bin/pi_too...27-217@average). This is the processed somatotropin with 191 amino acids.


To complete the picture, I need to find someone to test the biological activity of HGH, please if anyone knows if this test has a special name, can they let me know.

The cost for the above analysis was less than $250 and is IMHO a good investment to know that I am not injecting rubbish.

Before doing the above test, I contacted some of the board moderators to discuss what was being done.

I also feel it may also be possible for the mods to sort out a way where a number of us contribute to the cost of HGH sample analysis and pay a small fee to verify that their chosen supplier is selling quality gear.

Very true Fit N Fun, the hgh what was tested is from a lab who have a licence to produce and supply HGH, the test isnt one for testing for the hormone to be active but this lab does supply hospitals and around the world pharmacy's so I doubt they are selling fake. At least you can be assured you have 100% hgh

[Sgt. Hartman]

NotSmall,

Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading.

There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago

Guy's,

Seems to me that you are going about this the wrong way, looking for anecdotal evidence of whether you have HGH

There are many people on here spending lots of money on HGH without a clue whether they have anything worthwhile injecting.

I sent a vial of HGH to a lab to have it tested for purity and whether it was 191 Amino Acids, this tells you most of what you need to know. I still need to find a way to test for the biological activity of the HGH

Here is part of the information provided from the test results.

· The protein concentration was very close to the concentration given by the manufacturer (experimental: 1.7 mg/ml, on the label: 1.6 mg/ml).

· SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure



·


· MALDI-TOF analysis confirms the purity assessment by SDS-PAGE. All three peaks show a shoulder with a mass difference of 206 Da – this is not due to an impurity, it is the result of the formation of an adduct with sinapinic acid, the matrix that was used for the MALDI-MS experiment.





·


· The observed molecular weight of 22125 ± 8 Da corresponds well with the expected molecular weight of 22130 for the 22 kDa form of human growth hormone (see http://www.expasy.org/cgi-bin/pi_too...27-217@average). This is the processed somatotropin with 191 amino acids.


To complete the picture, I need to find someone to test the biological activity of HGH, please if anyone knows if this test has a special name, can they let me know.

The cost for the above analysis was less than $250 and is IMHO a good investment to know that I am not injecting rubbish.

Before doing the above test, I contacted some of the board moderators to discuss what was being done.

I also feel it may also be possible for the mods to sort out a way where a number of us contribute to the cost of HGH sample analysis and pay a small fee to verify that their chosen supplier is selling quality gear.

^^^^ Is that Ansomone?

[marcus300]

^^^^ Is that Ansomone?

yes.........

[NotSmall]

NotSmall,

Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading

There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago

Clearly you are struggling with reading and comprehension (you patronising twat) - I also cited "flawed testing methods" and as you acknowledge yourself the test does not confirm that the GH is biologically active.

[JimInAK]

Clearly you are struggling with reading and comprehension (you patronising twat) - I also cited "flawed testing methods" and as you acknowledge yourself the test does not confirm that the GH is biologically active.

Here's the typical information I find when I look for facts regarding 'biologically active" HGH: "When athletes and bodybuilders first began to use HGH injections to become more fit and able they used biologically active HGH. This was removed from cadavers and while it did work it also became known to cause Creutzfeldt Jacob Disease."

I have found NO evidence that suggests that rHGH contains, or is supposed to contain any biologically active component.

Times change and companies no longer produce "cadaver" HGH. I have only found "biologically active" variants of human growth hormone, not in synthetic rHGH. I cannot find any rHGH that claims to be biologically active, nor can I find any scientific report that states that any rHGH is biologically active.

Does "real" HGH contain ground up liver? Claiming US produced pharm is real and anything Chinese is dangerous, poisonous, fake, etc. is as unsubstantial as the "biologically active" claim.

Substantiate your claim and I may buy it. Where's the beef !!! It's not in my vial of Chinese HGH !!! LOL !!!

[JimInAK]

BTW - Any preparation, such as a drug, a vaccine, or an antitoxin, that is synthesized from living organisms or their products and used medically as a diagnostic, preventive, or therapeutic agent is biologically active, by definition.

So... perhaps ALL rHGH is biologically active ?!? What I need to know to believe any claim related to the term is specifically what does this dark and magic test, if one actually exists, really test for and how does it that relate to the difference between good rHGH and bad rHGH.

[NotSmall]

JinInAK - When this whole thing first kicked off I spoke to several labs about testing and it was them who made me aware of this - it was a while ago but from memory - there was a test for molecular weight which was a fairly good indicator that you had something "fitting the description of GH", then there was another more expensive test that could determine that you had the correct amino acid sequences BUT that may not be assembled correctly in which case they would not be biologically active - i.e. you would just be injecting yourself with all the right amino acids but it would not actually do anything.

** Disclaimer - The above is the gist of the situation BUT IS FROM MEMORY and is not intended to prove any point, just to help explain things (as I understand them) to JinInAK **

[marcus300]

Here's the typical information I find when I look for facts regarding 'biologically active" HGH: "When athletes and bodybuilders first began to use HGH injections to become more fit and able they used biologically active HGH. This was removed from cadavers and while it did work it also became known to cause Creutzfeldt Jacob Disease."

I have found NO evidence that suggests that rHGH contains, or is supposed to contain any biologically active component.

Times change and companies no longer produce "cadaver" HGH. I have only found "biologically active" variants of human growth hormone, not in synthetic rHGH. I cannot find any rHGH that claims to be biologically active, nor can I find any scientific report that states that any rHGH is biologically active.

Does "real" HGH contain ground up liver? Claiming US produced pharm is real and anything Chinese is dangerous, poisonous, fake, etc. is as unsubstantial as the "biologically active" claim.

Substantiate your claim and I may buy it. Where's the beef !!! It's not in my vial of Chinese HGH !!! LOL !!!

Notsmall is correct and your way off with your understanding on what we mean by active hormone. You also not listening that its the generic companies that doesnt mean all Chinese labs, a licence to sell or pharm grade are 100% hgh. To make rHGH they are many processes to complete and the equipment used cost's millions of dollars and many of the generic companies don't have this equipment, this is why to produce rHGH it costs a lot of money due to the expensive equipment need to complete the process. I do know someone who I am in contact with and in one of his first emails to me he describes the process of testing this horomone. I will copy the email so you get more of an understanding. My contact has many titles, he is a Professor of research, Scientific manager, he is head of the Biopharmaceutical Bioprocessing technology centre, Director of Mass spectrometry in clinical pharmacology who provide protein analysis services to commercial and academic clients and also a Doctor


Hi Marcus,

there are some things that we can do, some things that we could do, but that would possibly be too expensive (not worth it) and other things that we cannot do.

Please let me start with the last section:

We absolutely cannot test any substances for their suitability for any purpose, particularly not for their use in a diagnostic, therapeutic and/or recreational purpose, when this invloves administering to a living being (including humans).

Measuring the concentration of the growth hormones is something that is actually not as easy as it might seem. The concentration of the hormone can have two different meanings, it could be the chemical concentration of a compound (this is something that we can measure), it could also be the biological activity of this compound (this would be different, if a certain proportion of this chemical would be biologically inactive, which could happen for a variety of reasons). The latter (measuring the biological activity) is something we cannot do. We can measure the chemical concentration of human growth hormone (or any other growth hormone), but that would involve the chemical synthesis of an internal standard, followed by a fairly complicated experiment, in which we use chemical scissors (en enzyme called trypsin) to chop the protein into pieces, then we analyse these pieces using a combination of high performance liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry, followed by a computer-intensive analysis of the data. The result of this experiment would be the concentration either in units of mol/l or in units of mg/l (the two are interconvertible). I do not know how the IU (stands for International Units) for growth hormone are defined - this might be a functional (biological) unit (which we cannot measure).

Human growth hormone is a chain of 191 different amino acids. One thing we can do is measure the total molecular weight of the protein in a sample to see, if it corresponds to the molecular weight that would be predicted for a protein containing these 191 amino acids. This experiment detects, if one amino acid was missing or another one was added, in some cases (but not in all cases) even, if an amino acid was replaced with a different one. Another outcome of this experiment would be to see, if other, similar proteins are present in the same sample.

In a different experiment we can check, if a protein in a particular sample is really growth hormone or if it is possibly something completely different, for example egg white protein or milk protein.

For your information, I attach two links to articles about human growth hormone:


Best Wishes
**********

[Fit N Fun]

Clearly you are struggling with reading and comprehension (you patronising twat) - I also cited "flawed testing methods" and as you acknowledge yourself the test does not confirm that the GH is biologically active.

You may think I am patronising, but you also claimed in your post

"The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.

And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.", all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated.

I also agree with you and Marcus and many others that the test performed does not demonstrate whether the HGH is active, least I got off my ar$e and found a lab that can test whether my HGH is the correct molecular weight and whether it is pure then paid for the test to be done and shared with all on here.

I did find a company that could also perform tests for the HGH being active, they inject rats with the HGH and compare against control rats on the same food and conditions, they have run this test many times and may possibly have allowed the results to be quantified against others. The test was very expensive and out of my budget range.

In another reply, I posted a quote from one of the HGH manufacturers that advises the IGF-1 level in your body will peak at around 20 hours after an HGH injection, so seems to me that a blood test for IGF-1 before starting HGH and then 20 hours after the first HGH injection would provide as much information as the testing on the rats.

[NotSmall]

You may think I am patronising, but you also claimed in your post

"The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.

And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.", all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated.

OK then I should have put "and still no one has conclusively lab tested any chinese GH" *YAWN*

And as for you saying "all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated" erm where did you demonstrate that "The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them" is untrue? - I must have missed that! - I have seen it stated many times that chinese companies fill their GH vials with IGF-1 and with AIs as if this has been conclusively proven, which to my knowledge it has not, it is merely a theory and yet it is stated as if it were a fact.

[marcus300]

OK then I should have put "and still no one has conclusively lab tested any chinese GH" *YAWN*

And as for you saying "all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated" erm where did you demonstrate that "The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them" is untrue? - I must have missed that! - I have seen it stated many times that chinese companies fill their GH vials with IGF-1 and with AIs as if this has been conclusively proven, which to my knowledge it has not, it is merely a theory and yet it is stated as if it were a fact.

Depends if you want to believe many experienced members/staff who have used pharm grade and generics over the years, these people can give solid evidence of their own experience using both types of HGH. Yes there are two members who try and shout very loudly regarding generics but to be very honest they dont bring any foundation with their claims, they have only used generics and only for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.

The price to test for active hgh is very expensive and you also know its out of the price range for everyone here. The Chinese also know this which my Chinese source told me about when I was discussing generic quality, the are way ahead of the game than the us.

I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again. If your happy using what every your using keep with it because its an impossibility to convince the new generic users they have been wasting their money, if you want to get some personal experience pm BG/Extrlarg/Ronnie Rowland etc they will also tell you all about your source who you buy off, many things have changed Notsmall so I advice you to give them a PM and find out about the source you was using months ago, but if you looking for the active lab test it isnt going to happen aswell you and the Chinese know it isnt.

Ive given up trying to convince people, I am just passing on many friends/staff/members and my own experience.

[NotSmall]

Depends if you want to believe many experienced members/staff who have used pharm grade and generics over the years, these people can give solid evidence of their own experience using both types of HGH. Yes there are two members who try and shout very loudly regarding generics but to be very honest they dont bring any foundation with their claims, they have only used generics and only for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.

The price to test for active hgh is very expensive and you also know its out of the price range for everyone here. The Chinese also know this which my Chinese source told me about when I was discussing generic quality, the are way ahead of the game than the us.

I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again. If your happy using what every your using keep with it because its an impossibility to convince the new generic users they have been wasting their money, if you want to get some personal experience pm BG/Extrlarg/Ronnie Rowland etc they will also tell you all about your source who you buy off, many things have changed Notsmall so I advice you to give them a PM and find out about the source you was using months ago, but if you looking for the active lab test it isnt going to happen aswell you and the Chinese know it isnt.

Ive given up trying to convince people, I am just passing on many friends/staff/members and my own experience.

Mate I am not using any GH any more and it will stay that way until I get some pharma stuff - and even then I think that unless I could pick it up direct from the factory or straight out of a fridge at a hospital (neither of which is very likely! lol) I would steer clear - this whole thing has just jaded me against it.

[JimInAK]

I think Marcus' explanation and evidence is valid, regarding the complexity and necessity to use a testing procedure that is highly complex and would logically not be available to the layman. The only company that would have the financial motivation to do such a test would be an HGH producer, while an individual with a competitive product should not expect that a competitor would test another company's product and report objectively that it is as good or better....

I believe that a test through a legally certified GC/MS machine could break down the components and reliably tell you what you have. However, the finer point of whether the product is effective could be missed, similarly to the difference between fresh and sour milk, it's both milk, the components are there, but the sour milk is not quite as beneficial. That's my take on this testing argument. Also, as there are more than one process of testing, different detectors within the same process, etc., to my way of thinking there are finer points that leave questions that support Marcus' argument.

I will admit that I also support the possibility that Marcus is correct and the the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I conceded that the best test is the taste test, ie take both products and the fact that Marcus has taken both does put him in a better position than I to know the truth. I want to know the truth and will try pharm HGH, if and when i am able to do so. The difficulty and expense of getting access to pharm HGH is the problem and the underlying reason we are here arguing this issue.

I still take my Chinese HGH every day. I could say more in defense of my personal decision, but some things are best left unsaid on a public forum and relate to my experience with the specific product that I take, distributor's undocumented claims, etc., so is not specifically relevant to the argument in this thread.

If or when I try the pharm taste test, I will measure the results in three ways: (1) How I feel. (2) If the results are noticeably different. (3) What does a blood test show for my IGF-1 level.

I still believe that an IGF-1 test demonstrates the effectiveness of HGH use. Others posting on this forum do not support that conclusion.

With all that said, I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to compare their experiences on this thread. I respect member's experience and the time people have taken to bring scientific conclusions, statements and opinions to the debate. While everyone here has their own experience and bring their own prejudice to this discussion, I do not discount or disregard Marcus' comments (or anyone else's) because they oppose mine.

When you quit listening, you quit learning. This is a very complex issue and real life experience for others help me determine my course of action.

[marcus300]

I think Marcus' explanation and evidence is valid, regarding the complexity and necessity to use a testing procedure that is highly complex and would logically not be available to the layman. The only company that would have the financial motivation to do such a test would be an HGH producer, while an individual with a competitive product should not expect that a competitor would test another company's product and report objectively that it is as good or better....

I believe that a test through a legally certified GC/MS machine could break down the components and reliably tell you what you have. However, the finer point of whether the product is effective could be missed, similarly to the difference between fresh and sour milk, it's both milk, the components are there, but the sour milk is not quite as beneficial. That's my take on this testing argument. Also, as there are more than one process of testing, different detectors within the same process, etc., to my way of thinking there are finer points that leave questions that support Marcus' argument.

I will admit that I also support the possibility that Marcus is correct and the the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I conceded that the best test is the taste test, ie take both products and the fact that Marcus has taken both does put him in a better position than I to know the truth. I want to know the truth and will try pharm HGH, if and when i am able to do so. The difficulty and expense of getting access to pharm HGH is the problem and the underlying reason we are here arguing this issue.

I still take my Chinese HGH every day. I could say more in defense of my personal decision, but some things are best left unsaid on a public forum and relate to my experience with the specific product that I take, distributor's undocumented claims, etc., so is not specifically relevant to the argument in this thread.

If or when I try the pharm taste test, I will measure the results in three ways: (1) How I feel. (2) If the results are noticeably different. (3) What does a blood test show for my IGF-1 level.

I still believe that an IGF-1 test demonstrates the effectiveness of HGH use. Others posting on this forum do not support that conclusion.

With all that said, I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to compare their experiences on this thread. I respect member's experience and the time people have taken to bring scientific conclusions, statements and opinions to the debate. While everyone here has their own experience and bring their own prejudice to this discussion, I do not discount or disregard Marcus' comments (or anyone else's) because they oppose mine.

When you quit listening, you quit learning. This is a very complex issue and real life experience for others help me determine my course of action.

Fair comment and fully appreciated.

[EasyDoesIt]

I have been using chinese hgh and a friend the same hgh. His anti-aging doc told him in his last blood tests that whatever he is using for hgh is working. I have been taking 2 iu's for about a year and a half and not really sure if it's working anymore. Another friend is using half the dosage of a well known us brand and claims his results are amazing. He is only using 1iu per day. I am going to try the U.S. brand to see the difference of course the cost is much different. I am also suspicious of the chinese brands as I have recently switched to what is suppose to be the best of the chinese brands and not noticing any difference. WHAT IS CTS??

[funsize]

WHAT IS CTS??

CTS = Carpal tunnel syndrome is pressure on the median nerve -- the nerve in the wrist that supplies feeling and movement to parts of the hand. It can lead to numbness, tingling, weakness, or muscle damage in the hand and fingers.

[EasyDoesIt]

CTS = Carpal tunnel syndrome is pressure on the median nerve -- the nerve in the wrist that supplies feeling and movement to parts of the hand. It can lead to numbness, tingling, weakness, or muscle damage in the hand and fingers.

Ahh yes I did have that way back when i started. On another note, I recently had hair grafts and my doc could not believe how fast my hair grew in. Also, she thought that she was going to have to clean up my scar where they removed the donor hair and after 2-1/2 months she said she did not have to because the scar healed so well. I may just have stabilized on the 2iu's per day. I will have a better comparison after i try the U.S HGH.

[jz1985]

i have been using riptropin for two months and the results are amazing. using 5ius 5/2 split in 2 shots. i have put on 7 lbs in that time and lost 2 inches on my waist while not eating very clean. My skin and hair looks better then ever and I feel great, the pumps are insane at the gym. I had some water retention at first but it seems to have gone away. I have tried oarange tops, blue tops, and kigtropin and i can honestly say the riptropin is the best one i have tried. I would try pharm grade if i had access to it, but for the price you cant go wrong. Also i havnt used aas in over a year.

[808]

I first started with generic Chinese yellow tops over a year ago, great results. Then my source dried up and I found a clinic in Florida that got me prescription hgh. Due to the costs and the prescription recommendations, the results were ok, yellow top results were better. Just about a month ago I got blue tops are from IP GETROPIN 10 IUs vials from the same source as the yellow tops. About 10 to 15 mins after a 2IU sub q, my hunger goes out of control and I start sweating. I use bac water to mix and notice that when I mix, it dissolves instantly so I know its prob not HGH. Anyone have any idea what this might be? Thanks everyone.

[JimInAK]

I first started with generic Chinese yellow tops over a year ago, great results. Then my source dried up and I found a clinic in Florida that got me prescription hgh. Due to the costs and the prescription recommendations, the results were ok, yellow top results were better. Just about a month ago I got blue tops are from IP GETROPIN 10 IUs vials from the same source as the yellow tops. About 10 to 15 mins after a 2IU sub q, my hunger goes out of control and I start sweating. I use bac water to mix and notice that when I mix, it dissolves instantly so I know its prob not HGH. Anyone have any idea what this might be? Thanks everyone.

From my experience, real HGH does not dissolve instantly. There will always be a small amount that will take a couple of minutes of gently rotating the vial to get it to mix. Your reaction to the injection is not a reaction ever associated with HGH.

You could try a pregnancy test to see if it's HCG. However, HCG doesn't give you that type of reaction following injection. If I received something like that, particularly from an unknown source, I would discontinue its use.

[lovbyts]

I first started with generic Chinese yellow tops over a year ago, great results. Then my source dried up and I found a clinic in Florida that got me prescription hgh. Due to the costs and the prescription recommendations, the results were ok, yellow top results were better. Just about a month ago I got blue tops are from IP GETROPIN 10 IUs vials from the same source as the yellow tops. About 10 to 15 mins after a 2IU sub q, my hunger goes out of control and I start sweating. I use bac water to mix and notice that when I mix, it dissolves instantly so I know its prob not HGH. Anyone have any idea what this might be? Thanks everyone.

Sorry Dude.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...fter-injection

[sitries]

you have GHRP6 my friend. much cheaper than HGH but at least its not hcg.

[Sc0rch]

Depends if you want to believe many experienced members/staff who have used pharm grade and generics over the years, these people can give solid evidence of their own experience using both types of HGH.

The only problem I have is the staff members saying or implying there is no such thing as real Chinese generic hgh.

["Maximus"]

The only problem I have is the staff members saying or implying there is no such thing as real Chinese generic hgh.

Where/when did you read that? I went through the entire thread and clearly noticed the reference made to anything coming out of china that doesn't come from a *licensed lab* manufacturing hgh-process.

I've been using pharm-grade hgh since 2008, and I WAS contemplating going generic as my pharm-grade has increased in price but thanks to this thread and factual statements made I've been saved from wasting my time, energy, and above all, hard-earned money.

[Sc0rch]

I read the entire thread as well. That is your understanding, this is my understanding of the Staff's position on Chinese generic HGH:

There is no such thing as real Chinese generic HGH. All Chinese generic HGH contains no HGH, but contains IGF and a bunch of chemicals that mimic HGH sides. These chemicals adversely affect your health.

If my understanding is incorrect, I would like a STAFF member to correct it.

[Damuscleman2011]

Does this work with any other gear?

[rayresults]

I have just started Kigtropin HGH, it did not have sticker on box, which worries me, the cap has a circle with lines through it. Good pressure in vial, have to take air out and it does take a while for last bit to dissolve as discussed, anyone know if this is legit.

[justify]

I have just started Kigtropin HGH, it did not have sticker on box, which worries me, the cap has a circle with lines through it. Good pressure in vial, have to take air out and it does take a while for last bit to dissolve as discussed, anyone know if this is legit.

which color caps you got?

[rayresults]

Blue Caps.

[JimInAK]

Blue Caps.

ray -

justy is fvcking with you. the color of the cap means nothing.

read through this entire thread. you will have both sides of the story. i can't say any more than what i've already said in this thread related to how you can tell if your HGH is genuine. others disagree with me and their statements are also listed. this website also has links on the steroid.com homepage for further general information. i have found the information provided on the front page of this site (through its links) to be very accurate.

there are other places for information. i would be very skeptical of claims made by anyone selling their product. i similarly do not trust government sources, who have a stake in the game (to maintain control). information from medical establishment sources similarly has a serious money stake in maintaining control of pharm products and often provide biased information. a doctor i who puts out information i trust regarding HGH is Elmer Cranton, M.D.

good information is out there, but you're going to have to sort through a lot of conflicting information to find the truth...

[marcus300]

I have just started Kigtropin HGH, it did not have sticker on box, which worries me, the cap has a circle with lines through it. Good pressure in vial, have to take air out and it does take a while for last bit to dissolve as discussed, anyone know if this is legit.

You really need to read the whole thread and digest it all, there's a boat load of information within this thread.

[rayresults]

Thanks for the help guys, I guess i need to start reading Kind of a lot of info here. Thanks again

[Mark999]

Hi together!

First sorry for my bad english. I'm from switzerland and english isn't my native language.
Back to topic:

Since a while I am concerned in hgh. Here in my country there is a lab where I can test different substances, also HGH. For HGH they use the method PhEur. With this method they can test the purity, identity, content and the related substances.
After studying this forum here, I asked the chemist about the biological activity. The answer was: I'ts possible to have different biological activities in hgh but there are no values to measure them for the moment.

I get tested some different chinese hgh.
All thes red, green, blue, black, yellow tops I get tested are IGF-1 with low purity (~75%) and other not identifical substances. One blue top I get tested was hgh with low purity (<75%). The last one actually in test are the rips, today I get a preliminary result that the hgh has a high purity, higher than the official reference substance. That means the chemist has to order an other CAS reference substance! So i'm still waiting for the result.

personal conclusion
I tested green tops hgh (containing igf-1) and the feeling was bad. I got a blood sugar fall (correct english?). They were sell as Jintropin.
Now I'm on rips (3.3iu 5/2 in the morning) and the results are great. I can eat what I want an I still loose fat (bf <8%).

When you dissolve the hgh with the water it takes a while to get completely dissolved. A little rest takes 2-3min. If it dissolves directly is other stuff, perhaps igf-1-

When I get the result from the rips I will post them.

[noserider]

My take after 9 years of gh research. From best to the rest; Humatrope, Nutropin AQ, Jins, Anke's, Riptropin, Nordictropin, Elitropin, chinese generics.
Every brand of gh caused to some degree water retention resulting in CTS and various other sides. Brands made by licensed facilities had two things in common.
1. Sides eventually became nil, except minor CTS. Nutropin AQ was great but made my jaw ache most of the time.
2. Results come in sooner all while also using less iu's.

I was really impressed with Rips after going through 500iu's last summer and getting my igf levels checked. My numbers were where they should be for my dose. I use for anti aging and stay in the 2-3iu. While on Rips, my skin was differnt and my hair and nails grew much faster. I woke up refreshed every morning and just felt great all around.
Riptropin IMO is the best stuff coming out of china not named Jin, Anke Bio or Genheal. I have yet to try Hyge's but with so many fakes, don't think I ever will.

Just wanted to share my experiences.