1st Cycle; Contemplating an Addition; Thoughts?

[EatandGrow]

First cycle (Day 21/start of week 4):

Test Cypionate: 300mg week 1 / 300mg week 2 / 400mg week 3 / will go up to 500mg week 3 and stay there???

HGH (Pharmacy grade): 1.75 IUs per day (5 days on 2 days off; I pin 3.50 IUs on the 5th day)

GHRP-6: 500mcg per day (2x day just before breakfast and lunch); Technically, GHRP-6 makes your body release more of its own GH, but it also makes me eat like a horse. Absolutely ravenous appetite about 20 minutes after pinning

Arimidex: 0.5 mg EOD (started second week)

HCG: 500 IUs EOD (started second week)

Secretropin: 4 sprays each night under tongue (it prevents your brain from shutting down its own GH production, which is possible due to the synthetic HGH I am taking)

PCT: Clomid

Workout/Diet: Gym 5 days a week; concentrate on one major each day (Chest; Legs; Back; Shoulders; Arms); Begin each workout with 2 sets of pull-ups and push-ups to fail; do ~150 push-ups at night every other night

3,500 - 4,000 cal/day; 160-200 g of protein daily; No junk food; No soft drinks; no coffee; Only WATER; drink water all day long

Profile before starting cycle: 5' 9" / 145 lbs. (athletic, slim)

Impressive gains so far:

I weighed in this morning at 165 lbs.; Shoulders rounding out nicely and neckline really looking much sharper and bigger (my neck grew 1" already!);

Noticeable difference in overall size (and water weight yes), muscle tone and strength

Last night I put up 185 lbs. flat bench unassisted 3 reps; then went to a max rack with safety pins and put up 205 lbs. 1 rep (I had no spotters);

I don't know what my max was before starting but I was never able to put up those numbers, that much I do know.

However, flexibility is also greatly diminished (sometimes I have difficulty bending over to tie my shoes). Foot pain from extended walking is also severe (is this common???)

Water weight fluctuates but when I take my socks off before the gym there looks to be a 1-2" sudden drop-off in ankle width at the sock line (quite funny actually)

Joint stiffness and joint burn is rather high I think. I get a deep body massage once a week and walk-out feeling like superman, however, the joints tighten a few days later and the pain after working out is severe (especially in the shoulders) no matter what major I am working, with the exception of the legs.

Here's my goals and my concerns/questions:

Weight: 185 lbs.

Flat bench: 275 lbs.

I'm thinking of running the above cycle for a full 12 weeks and then continue running the HGH until I get absolutely shredded!

I've heard that Deca is good for the joints so I'm thinking about adding this to the cycle. Is this a good idea? How should I do it? 250mg Test C / 250mg Deca? 300mg Test C / 200mg Deca?

Should I just continue the cycle I am on?

What can I expect in the coming weeks? Will I hit my goals at my current pace?

I am 31 years old. I have a healthy appetite and have always been active in the gym. I tried the typical weight gainers / whey protein, etc. a few times and it would always take me about 3 or 4 months to put on about 15 pounds and I would have an incredibly difficult time keeping those gains (very high metabolism). Gaining strength has always been a challenge (weaker physiology of my muscles). I did about 3 months of research and then consulted with a hormone clinic. They ran a suite of blood work and analysis. My free testosterone levels came in significantly below normal. The deca was a recent idea that I wanted to vet through these forums.

I am a newbie to the practical application of AAS and could benefit from the experience and advice in these forums.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[gixxerboy1]

how old are you?
There is way to much stuff for a first cycle. Do NOT add deca
Yes you are extremely bloated from the sounds of it.
You were way to small to even start the cycle. You could get to that weight naturally if you eat correctly.
Do you have PCT?

[EatandGrow]

Hello gixxerboy1,

Thanks for the feedback. I am 31 years old. I have a healthy appetite and have always been active in the gym. I tried the typical weight gainers / whey protein, etc. a few times and it would always take me about 3 or 4 months to put on about 15 pounds and I would have an incredibly difficult time keeping those gains (very high metabolism). Gaining strength has always been a challenge (weaker physiology of my muscles). I did about 3 months of research and then consulted with a hormone clinic. They ran a suite of blood work and analysis. My free testosterone levels came in significantly below normal. The deca was a recent idea that I wanted to vet through these forums.

Thanks for any further feedback.

[EatandGrow]

And as far as PCT goes, I will be using Clomid.

Thanks

[Lemonada8]

GHRP6 should be done pre-bed and morning when u wake. then take the HGH 30 min after the morning shot.
u should add CJC1295 w/o dac at the same time as GHRP6 it will make the peaks of GH higher. or maybe thats the secretropin...

why u gonna PCT with clomid if u got a script of test cyp? that means ur on TRT most likely...
and clomid only isnt that great, add some tamox or tore also.

just pick a mg and stick with it. with 300mg a week, i doubt u have many issues so dont use the aromasin untill u need it.

and dont add deca

and HCG is 2x a week.

and sounds like ur super bloated... what is that from?

and r u already on the cycle? or just planning? if just planning, u need to get that bloat under control first

and that is very extensive... and too complicated for a first cycle.

[EatandGrow]

Thanks Lemonada8,

It's my understanding that the CJC-1295 and GHRP-6 are substitutes (I could be wrong there) GHRP-6 is what I have so that's what i have to go with. If I take the GHRP-6 pre-bed I will be running to the fridge to find food. I don't know if you have ever tried it, but it makes you simply want to eat and destroy anything about 20 minutes after pinning!

I am weeks away from making a decision on PCT so I don't need to worry so much about it now.

The arimidex (aromasin) limits the conversion of test into estrogen (and therefore also boosts test levels) and limits water retention (all good things). From what I can tell taking an aromasin on-cycle is quite common no?

I have been on-cycle for 3 weeks now.

Thanks again for the feedback. Sounds like I should go back down to 300mg Test C per week and stay there (probably getting ahead of myself by contemplating 500mg).

[ACE5HIGH]

Your Dr.'s got issues....

[EatandGrow]

Why is it the doctor has issues and not the patient that uses AAS?

If given two choices, 1) test; or 2) test with HGH, GHRP-S, Arimidex and HCG (all of which improve results and limit side effects), why not take choice 2?

[songdog]

Try doing some research and see why we recommend 1 compound 1st cycles.

[ACE5HIGH]

Why is it the doctor has issues and not the patient that uses AAS?

If given two choices, 1) test; or 2) test with HGH, GHRP-S, Arimidex and HCG (all of which improve results and limit side effects), why not take choice 2?

Lots of people who don't have a clue want to do AAS, they end up hurting only themselves. But Dr.'s are taught to know better, and should have a clue since they have the responsibility of peoples health in their hands!

You got way to much going on for your first cycle. Not to mention at 145lbs! why do you need a HUGH cycle anyway, you would gain lots with a proper diet and good workout routine.

Holy cow! I read your post wrong, I thought it said you were 5'4" 145lbs! Dude your like my height and 40lbs lighter than me, And Im a small dude!

[sxxen]

Arimidex is not Aromasin

[lovbyts]

I understand what you are doing with the CJC and the GHRP-6, it's not exacty as you put it in your first post, it's not pharmacy grade HGH, it makes your body produce like 4x normal and especially with all the fake HGH a better idea. Problem is it should be run at least 6 months to get good results, not a 12 week cycle.

No need to pyramid your cycle. Keep it at the 300 or around there.

You didnt answer the question, are you on TRT? Meaning when you are done with cycle you will still be using testosterone on a weekly basis to replace your low natural test. If yes you dont need PCT. If no then you need a better PCT if you plan on coming off the test.

I also agree, you should not have started due to your weight. You could have easily gotten the same results if you had put the effort into diet and less chance of loosing what you have gained.

[Honkey_Kong]

How could somebody 5'9 and 145lbs consider them self athletic? I suggest you stop taking the ****ing steroids. If your test levels are low, get on TRT, but don't be cycling. By the way, putting on 15lbs in 3-4 months is pretty good naturally (supposing it's lean muscle mass). And if you can do that, why would you even want to mess with steroids?

[EatandGrow]

Arimidex is not Aromasin

Aromatase inhibitor: A drug that inhibits the enzyme aromatase and by that means lowers the level of the estrogen estradiol. Aromatase inhibitors represent a class of antiestrogens.

The aromatase inhibitors approved by the US Food and Drug Administration include anastrazole (Arimidex), exemestane (Aromasin), and letrozole (Femara).

[EatandGrow]

How could somebody 5'9 and 145lbs consider them self athletic? I suggest you stop taking the ****ing steroids. If your test levels are low, get on TRT, but don't be cycling. By the way, putting on 15lbs in 3-4 months is pretty good naturally (supposing it's lean muscle mass). And if you can do that, why would you even want to mess with steroids?

Since when is height and weight a parameter for athleticism? I wrestled in college (never had to cut wait because I was very lean); I can do 20 pull-ups before fail; run a 5 minute mile; touch a 10' rim with no running start and grab it with a running start; I can flat bench more than 130% of my body weight 3 times. I can do 60+ push-ups in one set before fail; according to you this year's Division I Wrestling national Champion at 125 lbs class, who is 5'8", is not athletic, yet he went undefeated this year and won the national championship, and oh, yeah he only has one leg (go to you tube for a video of it, quite remarkable).

[Noles12]

Aromatase inhibitor: A drug that inhibits the enzyme aromatase and by that means lowers the level of the estrogen estradiol. Aromatase inhibitors represent a class of antiestrogens.

The aromatase inhibitors approved by the US Food and Drug Administration include anastrazole (Arimidex), exemestane (Aromasin), and letrozole (Femara).

They work in the same way but they are not one in the same. Aromasin and Arimidex are two separate drugs and are dosed differently. You either have on or the other

[Noles12]

Since when is height and weight a parameter for athleticism? I wrestled in college (never had to cut wait because I was very lean); I can do 20 pull-ups before fail; run a 5 minute mile; touch a 10' rim with no running start and grab it with a running start; I can flat bench more than 130% of my body weight 3 times. I can do 60+ push-ups in one set before fail; according to you Anthony Robles who is 5'8" and weighs 125 lbs is not athletic, yet he went undefeated this year in Division I NCAA wrestling and won the national championship, and oh, yeah he only has one leg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5W4RZq1NRg)

I agree one can be that size and athletic. But being athletic does not mean you have built a good base for AAS. I am 280 pounds and can do 60 pushups and 20 pull ups. Those numbers do not mean you have a large enough base

[EatandGrow]

I understand what you are doing with the CJC and the GHRP-6, it's not exacty as you put it in your first post, it's not pharmacy grade HGH, it makes your body produce like 4x normal and especially with all the fake HGH a better idea. Problem is it should be run at least 6 months to get good results, not a 12 week cycle.

No need to pyramid your cycle. Keep it at the 300 or around there.

You didnt answer the question, are you on TRT? Meaning when you are done with cycle you will still be using testosterone on a weekly basis to replace your low natural test. If yes you dont need PCT. If no then you need a better PCT if you plan on coming off the test.

I also agree, you should not have started due to your weight. You could have easily gotten the same results if you had put the effort into diet and less chance of loosing what you have gained.

Thanks lovbyts,

Not on TRT. I prob won't pyramid the test (seems to be too aggressive for a first cycle). I am taking both synthetic HGH and GHRP-6. The reality is that synthetic HGH (what i call pharmacy grade) is much better at boosting GH levels (its also a lot more expensive and more difficult to get your hands on). The HGH (synthetic) really helps to put on lean muscle mass, transform the structure of my physique and increase vascularity (I actually took a 12 week cycle of HGH one year ago) plus other benefits including mood elevation, better sleep, better libido, like a kid again!!). I plan to run the HGH much longer than the test (bulk-up then cut).

I will get blood work every 4 weeks to test my test levels and tailor my treatment based on those results.

[EatandGrow]

I agree one can be that size and athletic. But being athletic does not mean you have built a good base for AAS. I am 280 pounds and can do 60 pushups and 20 pull ups. Those numbers do not mean you have a large enough base

I know where you guys are coming from. Yes part of me is rationalizing, and while I may not be an ideal candidate to have started I did start and I am doing the cycle regardless (I am 4 weeks in now) and am looking for constructive, anonymous advice working under that assumption. I am not a teenager still developing. I am 31 years old and want to accelerate development and build a more physical (menacing?) appearance. At the end of the day, is that not what it's all about? Is there really anyone outside of HIV patients that should really be taking AAS? Is there a need for someone who is 6' 0" 250lbs and can bench 315lbs to take gear so they can get up to 275lbs. and 405lbs. on the bench? At the end of the day most of our decisions are based on image and what makes us feel good. And it feels good to look good. It feels good to feel strong.

And btw, 20 push-ups at 280lbs you are a beast!!

[EatandGrow]

They work in the same way but they are not one in the same. Aromasin and Arimidex are two separate drugs and are dosed differently. You either have on or the other

I have arimidex. Somebody replied to me aromasin so I assumed they are substitutes (i.e. serve the same purpose). I take 0.5mg Arimidex EOD.

[EatandGrow]

Lots of people who don't have a clue want to do AAS, they end up hurting only themselves. But Dr.'s are taught to know better, and should have a clue since they have the responsibility of peoples health in their hands!

You got way to much going on for your first cycle. Not to mention at 145lbs! why do you need a HUGH cycle anyway, you would gain lots with a proper diet and good workout routine.

Holy cow! I read your post wrong, I thought it said you were 5'4" 145lbs! Dude your like my height and 40lbs lighter than me, And Im a small dude!

I know where you guys are coming from. Yes part of me is rationalizing, and while I may not be an ideal candidate to have started I did start and I am doing the cycle regardless (I am 4 weeks in now) and am looking for constructive, anonymous advice working under that assumption. I am not a teenager still developing. I am 31 years old and want to accelerate development and build a more physical (menacing?) appearance. At the end of the day, is that not what it's all about? Is there really anyone outside of HIV patients that should really be taking AAS? Is there a need for someone who is 6' 0" 250lbs and can bench 315lbs to take gear so they can get up to 275lbs. and 405lbs. on the bench? At the end of the day most of our decisions are based on image and what makes us feel good. And it feels good to look good. It feels good to feel strong.

The HGH (synthetic) really helps to put on lean muscle mass, transform the structure of my physique and increase vascularity (I actually took a 12 week cycle of HGH one year ago) plus other benefits including mood elevation, better sleep, better libido, like a kid again!!). I plan to run the HGH much longer than the test (bulk-up then cut).

[EatandGrow]

Try doing some research and see why we recommend 1 compound 1st cycles.

I understand if what you are saying is to not add deca. Is that what you are saying? But the others are non-anabolic and should help improve results and limit side-effects right?

Thanks for any further feedback.

[lovbyts]

Dont read to much into some replies. This is a BB site and people have a certain expectation of body mass before use because we are thinking size. You are more sport oriented so it will be a little different for goals and usage so please bear with us and be patient. You may have to explain your situation more than once, some of us (especially me) have bad short term memory.

As far as the Deca, not advisable for what you are looking for especially a first time Test user. You would get to much bulk and probably bloat as well as possible sides and you would not know if it's the deca or test. It's a good idea to let the body get use to one thing at a time to make adjustments and know how you will react.

[EatandGrow]

Dont read to much into some replies. This is a BB site and people have a certain expectation of body mass before use because we are thinking size. You are more sport oriented so it will be a little different for goals and usage so please bear with us and be patient. You may have to explain your situation more than once, some of us (especially me) have bad short term memory.

As far as the Deca, not advisable for what you are looking for especially a first time Test user. You would get to much bulk and probably bloat as well as possible sides and you would not know if it's the deca or test. It's a good idea to let the body get use to one thing at a time to make adjustments and know how you will react.

Lovbyts,

That is the most constructive feedback yet and I appreciate it. Will def just stick to test for now.

For me, I have always been athletic, yet slim and lean and find the grind of pounding food and hitting the gym to be just that a grind and a chore and overly difficult to bulk (and I am not a BB, I am a suit that works 80 hours a week in an office so my bandwidth to spend so much energy on eating and working out is limited). So maybe the BB's on this site will hate on me or call me a cheater, but I don't care. I want a ripped "hollywood" physique and I know I have the body type and the metabolism to get there with a little help. I wan to bulk-up and then cut.

Since taking gear I actually enjoy the gym and enjoy eating now. I challenge myself every meal to put more and more food down and its actually fun! The pump in the gym is intoxicating at times! And whoever the lucky girl of the week is, let's just say I look forward to trying to drill her through the bed and then the through the floor and then through the floor of the apartment underneath!!!!

Thanks again!

[Lemonada8]

i dont get why ur doc gave u HGH and analouges and test... and didnt tell u how to do it... thats suspicous IMO

i would stop the a-dex. Too little estrogen gives similar sides as too much estrogen. from the sound of it you are extremely boated, and taking a-dex on cyp with 300mg a week? thats rare.

as for CJC/GHRP6 they are 2 different things. the CJC makes ur natural HGH peaks higher, and GHRP6 is like shock paddles u inject it u get a pulse of GH. then use ur HGH about 30 minutes after to maximize ur results.
GHRP6 should be done prebed to utilize ur natural GH pulse. and if u have hunger issues, use ipamorelin. or GHRP2

and HCG should be done 2x a week, any more than that then ur basically wasting it...
and if ur doc gave Test Cyp, then thats TRT... u wont PCT. using test cyp will suppress ur natty test, so it wont get u back to normal...

but like i said, thats very suspicous that ur Doc gave u that, and I dont believe it untill i see the script.
if u have a GH deficiency, u dont get both analogues and hgh...
if u have low test, u get TRT with test cyp roughly 100mg a week...

sry to be a dick but sounds like ur a skinny guy who wants to get big so u went and got all the PEDS u could get and now asking how to do it...

[EatandGrow]

i dont get why ur doc gave u HGH and analouges and test... and didnt tell u how to do it... thats suspicous IMO

i would stop the a-dex. Too little estrogen gives similar sides as too much estrogen. from the sound of it you are extremely boated, and taking a-dex on cyp with 300mg a week? thats rare.

as for CJC/GHRP6 they are 2 different things. the CJC makes ur natural HGH peaks higher, and GHRP6 is like shock paddles u inject it u get a pulse of GH. then use ur HGH about 30 minutes after to maximize ur results.
GHRP6 should be done prebed to utilize ur natural GH pulse. and if u have hunger issues, use ipamorelin. or GHRP2

and HCG should be done 2x a week, any more than that then ur basically wasting it...
and if ur doc gave Test Cyp, then thats TRT... u wont PCT. using test cyp will suppress ur natty test, so it wont get u back to normal...

but like i said, thats very suspicous that ur Doc gave u that, and I dont believe it untill i see the script.
if u have a GH deficiency, u dont get both analogues and hgh...
if u have low test, u get TRT with test cyp roughly 100mg a week...

sry to be a dick but sounds like ur a skinny guy who wants to get big so u went and got all the PEDS u could get and now asking how to do it...

I misspoke before in that only technically I'm on TRT due to low free testosterone (that's how I got a script) and yes I have scripts for all of the above (no you will not see them), and obviously I am dosing above the scripted 100mg/wk. However, I have access to the hormone clinic and its doctors when I want to, and I get blood work run every 4 weeks and I get access to all of the analogs, which I otherwise would not have access to nor would I have the time to meet people in the gym and "ask around." I have legal scripts for everything and pick it all up at the pharmacy.

And again I don't see the difference between a skinny guy that wants to get a big and a big guy that's wants to get bigger. We are both doing it for the same reasons, vanity and a personal sense of well being. There is simply no justification to take AAS unless you are sick (HIV sick) or for TRT. Don't BS a BSer.

I started this thread to ask the forum about adding deca to the program and for them to opine on the gains so far and what I could expect in the next 8 weeks or so.

I don't understand the underlying tone of "I take AAS because I BB and therefore it's justified, you shouldn't take AAS because your too small and you don't BB." HGH is one of the most high-profile designer PEDs available. Most professional athletes take it and the primary reason that the general pop does not make it a part of their programs is the expense (it runs a couple thousand dollars of month). And as far as the medical community is concerned taking HGH and test with the analogs only works to synergistically improve the results of the whole suite.

[Lemonada8]

Since when is height and weight a parameter for athleticism? I wrestled in college (never had to cut wait because I was very lean); I can do 20 pull-ups before fail; run a 5 minute mile; touch a 10' rim with no running start and grab it with a running start; I can flat bench more than 130% of my body weight 3 times. I can do 60+ push-ups in one set before fail; according to you this year's Division I Wrestling national Champion at 125 lbs class, who is 5'8", is not athletic, yet he went undefeated this year and won the national championship, and oh, yeah he only has one leg (go to you tube for a video of it, quite remarkable).

not to take anything away from him, but not having a leg gives him a extra 30lbs easy he can build in his upper body, he is huge compared to the rest of the people. but it is amazing what he did!

[Lemonada8]

I misspoke before in that only technically I'm on TRT due to low free testosterone (that's how I got a script) and yes I have scripts for all of the above (no you will not see them)doubtful u got both... but w/e, and obviously I am dosing above the scripted 100mg/wk. However, I have access to the hormone clinic and its doctors when I want to, and I get blood work run every 4 weeks and I get access to all of the analogs, which I otherwise would not have access to nor would I have the time to meet people in the gym and "ask around." I have legal scripts for everything and pick it all up at the pharmacy.

And again I don't see the difference between a skinny guy that wants to get a big and a big guy that's wants to get bigger.a big guy has put in his time gaining his size before turning to AAS/HGH. u say u gain 15 lbs in 3 months then lose it... that means u dont maintain the lifestyle that u need to according to ur body. i bet the weight u did gain was mainly lean mass, and u failed to keep it.
We are both doing it for the same reasons, vanity and a personal sense of well being. There is simply no justification to take AAS unless you are sick (HIV sick) or for TRT. Don't BS a BSer.

I started this thread to ask the forum about adding deca to the program and for them to opine on the gains so far and what I could expect in the next 8 weeks or so.

I don't understand the underlying tone of "I take AAS because I BB and therefore it's justified, you shouldn't take AAS because your too small and you don't BB." i dont body build, so dont assume that tone from me. Im talking from a medical standpoint, and if ur doc did give u all those, wow...
HGH is one of the most high-profile designer PEDs available.because there is no accurate test to determine who is taking it and who isnt... Most professional athletes take it and the primary reason that the general pop does not make it a part of their programs is the expense (it runs a couple thousand dollars of month). And as far as the medical community is concerned taking HGH and test with the analogs only works to synergistically improve the results of the whole suiteNegative. u dont buy ur kid a indy 500 car when he is learning to drive, same here. U get one or the other with GH. 1-2iu is considered a full replacement dose for anyone, and u already have that. U use the analogues to increase your natural GH without shutting down your pit..

above

[gixxerboy1]

i dont get why ur doc gave u HGH and analouges and test... and didnt tell u how to do it... thats suspicous IMO

i would stop the a-dex. Too little estrogen gives similar sides as too much estrogen. from the sound of it you are extremely boated, and taking a-dex on cyp with 300mg a week? thats rare.

as for CJC/GHRP6 they are 2 different things. the CJC makes ur natural HGH peaks higher, and GHRP6 is like shock paddles u inject it u get a pulse of GH. then use ur HGH about 30 minutes after to maximize ur results.
GHRP6 should be done prebed to utilize ur natural GH pulse. and if u have hunger issues, use ipamorelin. or GHRP2

and HCG should be done 2x a week, any more than that then ur basically wasting it...
and if ur doc gave Test Cyp, then thats TRT... u wont PCT. using test cyp will suppress ur natty test, so it wont get u back to normal...

but like i said, thats very suspicous that ur Doc gave u that, and I dont believe it untill i see the script.
if u have a GH deficiency, u dont get both analogues and hgh...
if u have low test, u get TRT with test cyp roughly 100mg a week...

sry to be a dick but sounds like ur a skinny guy who wants to get big so u went and got all the PEDS u could get and now asking how to do it...

cause its a clinic and they are making a small fortune of this guy and he doesnt know any better.

[gixxerboy1]

I am 31 years old. I have a healthy appetite and have always been active in the gym. I tried the typical weight gainers / whey protein, etc. a few times and it would always take me about 3 or 4 months to put on about 15 pounds and I would have an incredibly difficult time keeping those gains (very high metabolism). Gaining strength has always been a challenge (weaker physiology of my muscles). I did about 3 months of research and then consulted with a hormone clinic. They ran a suite of blood work and analysis. My free testosterone levels came in significantly below normal. The deca was a recent idea that I wanted to vet through these forums.

Those are very good results. 15lbs in 3 months. What more are you expecting to be able to put on. Your body can only grow so fast. Your diet is the issue. Thats why you couldnt keep it. How do you think you will keep it after the cycle.

[EatandGrow]

cause its a clinic and they are making a small fortune of this guy and he doesnt know any better.

Not everybody has the same connections as you. I don't know anybody off the street (nor am I the type to ask) that I could get the gear from and I have the resources to pay for the creation of a legal framework and the scripts at any cost. Yes, I am aware the prices are outrageous, but if it gives me peace of mind to do it this way then so be it.

My theory is that for most people who run a first cycle they simply have no idea where to go to get all of the above analogs and the AAS community is so trained to think that every first cycle needs to start with just test alone. HGH is extremely difficult to get from the black market. I knew people that would wait outside of HIV clinics and buy it direct from patients and even then it cost them $3-$5 per IU. Through legal means it costs triple that (but I have peace of mind that I can get it whenever i need it)! So I'm not sold that most people in the gym could even deliver a tailored package like above at reasonable prices, in reasonable time for an extended period of time.

Call me an experiment. I will certainly keep you all updated on the progress and results, which I feel will be dramatic.

[EatandGrow]

Those are very good results. 15lbs in 3 months. What more are you expecting to be able to put on. Your body can only grow so fast. Your diet is the issue. Thats why you couldnt keep it. How do you think you will keep it after the cycle.

That's really the question I struggle with too. How do I keep it? I'm hoping that by running this cycle and in a way training myself to constantly eat (for some reason on-cycle eating just seems so much more meaningful because I am expecting to see results) I will be able to continue that pattern off-cycle. I figure if I overbulk and then cut I will create a higher normalized base weight and physique to work from. Maybe I could use some guidance here from those with experience. I basically want to re-establish a base weight and physical framework and re-work my eating habits. The cycle is forcing me to constantly eat and I'm hoping that sticks.

[gixxerboy1]

I'm not saying you have another choice besides the clinic. But the Dr's at the clinics are salesman. He is getting you on as much stuff as you can pay for. I would never ask my source what he thinks i should run. And if you are comfortable at using the clinic and being safe and legal and that a trade off for paying more for the items then go for it. That still doesnt mean you need to be on all those different things. I can get what ever i want and wouldnt run what you are. I have nothing to gain by miss advising you. But your Dr is taking you for a ride with some of the things he is SELLING you.

[EatandGrow]

Those are very good results. 15lbs in 3 months. What more are you expecting to be able to put on. Your body can only grow so fast. Your diet is the issue. Thats why you couldnt keep it. How do you think you will keep it after the cycle.

I would like to establish a new base weight of around 180 - 185 lbs, which may take a couple of cycles?? I think with my frame it would look great once I cut-up.

[gixxerboy1]

I would like to establish a new base weight of around 180 - 185 lbs, which may take a couple of cycles?? I think with my frame it would look great once I cut-up.

at 5'9 that should be very easy to do without a few cycles.

[EatandGrow]

I'm not saying you have another choice besides the clinic. But the Dr's at the clinics are salesman. He is getting you on as much stuff as you can pay for. I would never ask my source what he thinks i should run. And if you are comfortable at using the clinic and being safe and legal and that a trade off for paying more for the items then go for it. That still doesnt mean you need to be on all those different things. I can get what ever i want and wouldnt run what you are. I have nothing to gain by miss advising you. But your Dr is taking you for a ride with some of the things he is SELLING you.

You make a good point. I really should consider some things. Right now the clinic is my only source so yeah I guess I am trying to get as much out of him as he is trying to get out of me. I probably don't need to take it all like you say. If I had another source that could get anything then I would probably have more precise requests.

[ACE5HIGH]

Those are very good results. 15lbs in 3 months. What more are you expecting to be able to put on. Your body can only grow so fast. Your diet is the issue. Thats why you couldnt keep it. How do you think you will keep it after the cycle.

Hey Eat, as said above this is a bb forum so the expectations are as such... However, it doesnt matter if your 260lbs and trying to make 275lbs or if your 145lbs and trying to hit 160lbs The same applies to both. Id say the 260 pounder has a better chance of keeping those gains based on the fact that he prob knows how to eat and lift to keep those gains. As Gixxer is pointing out above what makes you think your going to keep your gains once you finish your cycle? The answer is you probably wont because its an issue of your diet and not an issue of how much gear your running. We know your not a teenager and advice is based what appears to be a bandaid on a broken arm.

[EatandGrow]

Hey Eat, as said above this is a bb forum so the expectations are as such... However, it doesnt matter if your 260lbs and trying to make 275lbs or if your 145lbs and trying to hit 160lbs The same applies to both. Id say the 260 pounder has a better chance of keeping those gains based on the fact that he prob knows how to eat and lift to keep those gains. As Gixxer is pointing out above what makes you think your going to keep your gains once you finish your cycle? The answer is you probably wont because its an issue of your diet and not an issue of how much gear your running. We know your not a teenager and advice is based what appears to be a bandaid on a broken arm.

Thanks Ace,

I hear you. You guys have sensibilities about you. I'm taking it all in. It's a lot to process. My body is changing quickly and I'm not afraid to say I like it. I do need to be careful, which is why I joined this forum. I do appreciate your input as sobering as it is at times.

[ACE5HIGH]

Thanks Ace,

I hear you. You guys have sensibilities about you. I'm taking it all in. It's a lot to process. My body is changing quickly and I'm not afraid to say I like it. I do need to be careful, which is why I joined this forum. I do appreciate your input as sobering as it is at times.

People sometimes get the impression those who are more experienced are here to make other look dumb or discourage aas usage altogether. If we were here do completely discourse the use of aas then we wouldn't be on the forum in the first place im sure

The fact is that (in most cases) we dont want others to either make the same mistakes some of us have made, Or we are trying to educate people on the safest, most effective way to use aas. I can promise you there is nothing that gets under those who are passionate about this subject more than the bad reputation and misinformation that is aas in the media; and unfortunately most of that reputation comes from peoples misuse and lack of proper knowledge on safe and proper use.

[Lemonada8]

People sometimes get the impression those who are more experienced are here to make other look dumb or discourage aas usage altogether. If we were here do completely discourse the use of aas then we wouldn't be on the forum in the first place im sure

The fact is that (in most cases) we dont want others to either make the same mistakes some of us have made, Or we are trying to educate people on the safest, most effective way to use aas. I can promise you there is nothing that gets under those who are passionate about this subject more than the bad reputation and misinformation that is aas in the media; and unfortunately most of that reputation comes from peoples misuse and lack of proper knowledge on safe and proper use.

Amen Brotha!