guys wanting to gain 25+lbs on cycle

[xXthehulkXx]

Copied this from another forum. Hope it helps you guys.

Here's some info for guys who want to gain 20-25lbs on a cycle.

Everyone wants to know how to gain high poundages on a cycle. We've all got a "friend" in a gym somewhere that gained 25lbs on his last cycle and we want to do the same. We ask ourselves...What is his secret? Is the juice he's taking that good? Is it a good diet in conjunction with the test.. is that what is responsible? Well, here's the answer.. NO, his particular anabolic compound of choice be it Sustanon, Winstrol, Dbol, Tren, etc... isn't so great that whoever takes one of those compounds will grow.. nor is his diet so "on" that he will gain more than us.

Here's the truth.. and some of you won't like it.. Some of you may even get pissed off.. The reason these guys grow so much on their cycles is because they shouldn't even be using steroids to begin with... And that's the truth... That may sound a bit confusing.. yes? Well allow me to elaborate...

You take a 20 yr old male. He has been lifting on and off for six months or so... He's about 6 foot tall maybe a little shorter.. 5'10" or so.. He weighs about 165lbs.. He's got a little bit of definition.. nothing big.. when his shirt is off people can tell he's been working out.. He decides one day that he wants to take steroids, He sees the really big guys in the gym and he wants to be like them right now.. he doesn't want to wait any longer.. in his mind six months has been long enough.. So he gets on the internet.. he finds a message board similar to this one.. he reads a little .. finds a hook up.. and decides to run 250mg of test and 300mg of deca for two months and ends up weighing around 185 or 190.. All of his friends are amazed.. he's amazed He's put on some size.. he looks like a weight lifter.. he doesn't look like someone who could compete.. but he looks like he's finally arrived on the Body building scene... His closest friends are so impressed that they want to run the exact same cycle .. He tells them exactly what he did.. how he ate etc... Now, a few months go by.. all of a sudden the kid is back to around 165 maybe 170.. He thinks.. "Oh man.. I've got to get back on cycle.. I need those drugs to be big.. if I don't.. I just can't grow... Steroids require that I stay on all the time to maintain the kind of size that I want"... I guess that's what he has to do; huh; stay on all the time?

Now, here's the reason he gained 25lbs on his cycle.. He was so far from his genetic potential that once the anabolic compounds were introduced into his system he grew like a weed.. His body didn't need to struggle to put on that mass, because it was quite capable of adding that much mass naturally.. The steroids just sped it up..

it is for lack of a better or more accurate word.. a short cut to get to where he could have gotten natural anyway. His inevitable weight loss after coming off his "super" cycle wasn't from the lack of steroids.. it was from a lack of a proper foundation.. a Lack of proper training skills, and a lack of muscular maturation...

Here's the deal.. guys who need steroids aren't the guys who are growing 25+lbs per cycle.. they are gaining 10lbs and hopefully keeping 5-8.. They are struggling to even do that.. I'll tell you from personal experience.. I am 30 yrs old 6'2" .. I am 284lbs currently.. I am 17% BF (I'm a power lifter/strongman.. so I keep a little extra fat on me)...If I wanted to keep the same body fat % I have now and weigh 300lbs.. I would have to run a very long cycle. or in all honesty it will take me two full cycles to get to 3 bills..

An average cycle for me is about 750mg Test, 450mg Deca, 300mg EQ and Some Dbol in the front and at the end... Those are some fairly heavy dosages...Why don't I gain 25lbs per cycle?

Because No matter how much gear I take.. no matter how much I eat.. my body is so far beyond it's genetic potential that I simply can't add that kind of radical mass anymore..

My body does a fairly good job of maintaining mass when I'm not on cycle.. but I do drop weight regardless.. and in truth, the only reason my body maintains it's size as well as it does is because of Muscle maturation.. My body is used to carrying around that muscle.. it's not a shock to my body to carry it around.. And I built a solid mass foundation naturally years ago.. I reached my genetic potential before I started using juice.. Lifting was a habit and a lifestyle for me because I played football from Junior high through College.

I've worked out in gyms all over the country.. and I have been doing so for the better part of a decade.. and I'll tell you, I have seen a lot of little guys blow up for a couple of months from a cycle only to deflate a couple of months later. It's the truth.. Muscle Maturation plays a huge key in keeping mass... that and proper training skills.. (and no hitting bench 3 days a week and squatting once every few months doesn't count)

So in truth, when you hear about some guy who gained 25-30lbs off of a cycle.. Please keep in mind that he is probably some impatient tiny punk that could have easily gained the same amount of muscle had he just been a little more patient.. If he had just been focused on learning how to train.. focused on how to eat...

This is a lifestyle.. there are no short cuts if you want to be the real deal.... There will never be a fly by nighter even win the smallest amateur comp in booney freaking Iowa if he hasn't been serious for years...

It's important that you guys learn that Juice may seem like the best short cut in the beginning... but whenever you add that much mass that quickly from gear.. Your body isn't going to be ready for it.. it will literally fight you to keep it.. the sudden size and strength will stress the ligaments, tendons, bones and central nervous system and Your body will do everything that it can to shed those rapid muscle gains.. Decent muscle mass is only kept through time and hard work (cough.. cough.. it's a cliché.. but it's still true).. and it's important that your gains aren't so fast that the body can't adjust healthfully to it's new weight gain..

I've been on the boards for years.. and I'll tell you, 80% of the people on these boards are wannabes and posers.. they are guys who won't even be working out six months from now.. They are impatient and are looking for the shortcut.. they may even get a few short term results.. but in the long run they will come out behind everyone else (and when I say long run.. i mean less than a year or two)

These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

So in the end my advice is this.. if you are wanting to add some mass. and you're stuck.. learn a different training method.. change your diet.. and if you're a good size.. (that's when everyone who is in the room with you knows you're a weight lifter.. if you walk in a room, and everyone in there doesn't know that you lift... you are not ready for steroids) then come and sit down.. and we'll talk about steroids.. until then... Learn how to train.. learn how to eat.. and spend some time in the gym.. you'll be so much better off in the end...

Phreezer

[xelnaga]

I agree with most of it. I take exception with ".. and in truth, the only reason my body maintains it's size as well as it does is because of Muscle maturation.. My body is used to carrying around that muscle..". Not sure there's any science to support that claim.

[FireGuy]

Excellent.

[thehulk2203]

Nice thread

[boxin23]

Great stuff....the part about hm probably being a punk threw me off a bit. Being impatient is usually either a maturation thing or it is bred into you.

Me included with the patience thing.

Really good read though.

[SMcB]

I agree. That's why I'm convinced that if one is at his natural limit, anything gained from cycling will eventually be lost when off cycle. People who claim to keep gains after a cycle (even if it's less than 50% of their gains) either: 1. Weren't at their genetic limit yet, 2. Went back on a cycle before all gains are eventually lost, or 3. Is always on (HRT or cruising between heavy cycles). I don't think that aggressive PCT will allow you to keep gains if you are at your natural limit.

[mirin_serratus]

but I know a lot of people who are recreational lifters, got massive on cycle, came off, and kept most of their gains. Some of them came off several years ago and still look way bigger than pr***********. How do you explain this?

[bob87]

Great read I just forwarded this to mates who are all getting on it and you couldn't even tell they hit the gym at all

[SMcB]

but I know a lot of people who are recreational lifters, got massive on cycle, came off, and kept most of their gains. Some of them came off several years ago and still look way bigger than pr***********. How do you explain this?

They probably weren't close to their genetic limit when they first started cycling. Either that or they aren't being honest with you and are still on something but perhaps at a lower dosage.

[xXthehulkXx]

They probably weren't close to their genetic limit when they first started cycling. Either that or they aren't being honest with you and are still on something but perhaps at a lower dosage.

^^^x2

[lovbyts]

No way... I figure I will grow/gain 25 lbs each cycle and I will be go from 180 to 300 within the year. hahahahahahah

Good explanation and hopefully it will keep one or two newbies from making the same mistake.

[mwilkinson]

i enjoyed the read.

[mwilkinson]

i enjoyed the read.

[X2006ibmgto]

Good read. Didnt read all of it, but I agree. Cant wait to get big nautrally.

[FireGuy]

I agree. That's why I'm convinced that if one is at his natural limit, anything gained from cycling will eventually be lost when off cycle. People who claim to keep gains after a cycle (even if it's less than 50% of their gains) either: 1. Weren't at their genetic limit yet, 2. Went back on a cycle before all gains are eventually lost, or 3. Is always on (HRT or cruising between heavy cycles). I don't think that aggressive PCT will allow you to keep gains if you are at your natural limit.

Well stated.

[Scat40]

Good Post. Everyone is looking for the easy way. Not many things come easy.

[guitario]

Just thinking out loud here...

Say you have 2 identical twins. One is 180lbs and one is 220lbs. Both with a genetic potential of 200lbs. Say they both go on a cycle and keep 10lbs after pct. Allowing for the differences in total calories needed. Which one will drop weight quicker? Going by this article it will be the smaller twin, but going by what a lot of guys on this forum say, the guy who has passed his genetic potential will drop weight faster. Everything being equal (relatively speaking) which is more likely to be true?

[wmaousley]

Beautiful, Man this really will be beneficial to all of us taking AAS, not just the newbies. Best Post of 2012 award nominee

[cb714]

Although I agree with a lot of what you just posted, I dont think anyone can say who 'should' and 'shouldnt' be taking steroids, with the exception of age of course. Obviously we dont want 18 years old on aas and we try to talk them out of it on this forum as often as we can. But how about the 30 year old who's been lifting for a few years, has decent size but hasnt reached his genetic potential? You're telling me he's wrong for taking aas because he doesnt want to take 4 times as long to get where he wants to be? I dont think we are anyone to judge that persons decision as long as he is informed about aas, dieting and working out.

The whole muscle maturation thing is also a little deceptive. Muscle is muscle, regardless how you got it. I bet that if a natural body builder has an accident or disease which causes his natural test to drop to minimal levels he will have just as hard of a time keeping his muscle gains as someone who has just come off a cycle. Its not impossible, but definitely harder and requires more work to keep it on. The whole building a good base thing, imo, has nothing to do with keeping muscle afterwards because it is irrelevant. Its more about not injuring yourself because you are not physically ready for the rapid size and strength gains.

My point is- if you're old enough, are informed and understand the risks, neither I or anyone else can judge you and your decision to take aas... and muscle gained through the use of aas or natural at the end of the day is still muscle regardless of how you got it and does not behave any different than the other.

[BBrian]

This entire post was contaminated with so much opinion, teenage philosophy and egomania that I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. It's a silly story filled with uneducated conclusions written by someone predisposed with their own ego.

[ecruz]

good one bro!!

[jasc]

This entire post was contaminated with so much opinion, teenage philosophy and egomania that I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. It's a silly story filled with uneducated conclusions written by someone predisposed with their own ego.

I'd have to agree with this..

The post could have been valuable until it started attacking anyone who used n hadn't reached their genetic potential. If the aim was to educate or turn people off steroid use, it failed.

[xXthehulkXx]

Cb714.
I agree with you. I didn't write it, like I stated, but thought it would be aimed more towards the younger guys and inexperienced vets.

Nobody has the right to judge what anybody does. We try to detour the younger guys with other options. And, maybe we do judge them to a certain extent.

If a seasoned gym rat has never used and decides he wants to, no problem. The problem is when older members, he knows who I'm referring to, have a few month or a year of training and want to jump on it. They probably have no foundation, just like younger guys, and a horrible diet. You know they are just as desperate and impatient. So how come we justify giving advise to older guys with no knowledge and experience?

Just saying.

[BBrian]

There are some good points to take away from this. But the point of muscle maturation is a conundrum. Your body cannot get used to having muscle mass past ones genetic potential without starting with steroids in the very first place. Experienced anabolic users very conveniently forget how they got started, and in my opinion are subconsciously threatened by those they see beginning on the same path as themselves. They want to be unique in a world where anyone can learn how to diet, exercise and cycle the same way they have. What he should have been preaching was how to diet during and post cycle, and how to continually cycle in order to maintain loads of muscle mass.

[ghettoboyd]

There are some good points to take away from this. But the point of muscle maturation is a conundrum. Your body cannot get used to having muscle mass past ones genetic potential without starting with steroids in the very first place. Experienced anabolic users very conveniently forget how they got started, and in my opinion are subconsciously threatened by those they see beginning on the same path as themselves. They want to be unique in a world where anyone can learn how to diet, exercise and cycle the same way they have. What he should have been preaching was how to diet during and post cycle, and how to continually cycle in order to maintain loads of muscle mass.

what is unique about those whome have been using aas for years is that they have the dedication and consistancy to continue training year after year, regardless of if they are cycleing or not..thats what sets them apart and makes them unique...the way i see peeps come and go here leads me to belive that this is all a passing fancy to most peeps who train on and off...they cycle, they get results, then they dissapear(and so do there gains)...there are thousand of members here and thousands that never come back cus they dont have what it takes be "unique", so why spoonfeed them what it took us years to learn/experiance?...

[BBrian]

what is unique about those whome have been using aas for years is that they have the dedication and consistancy to continue training year after year, regardless of if they are cycleing or not..thats what sets them apart and makes them unique...the way i see peeps come and go here leads me to belive that this is all a passing fancy to most peeps who train on and off...they cycle, they get results, then they dissapear(and so do there gains)...there are thousand of members here and thousands that never come back cus they dont have what it takes be "unique", so why spoonfeed them what it took us years to learn/experiance?...

I'm not interested in spoon feeding anyone, but I will say that I enjoy sharing knowledge with helping people learn. It's a matter of gratification, I feel good when I help others, and frown on selfish perspectives. It reminds me that my father was an English professor and how much that rubbed off on me.

[tcw]

True...i would have to agree with BB

I know so many dudes that "used to be on AAS" and are NOW Just as skinny as they were when they got started.

I would say in general, AAS can add 10lbs of sustainable muscle (permanent), but as far as "muscle maturation theroy"..there is no proof to any of this.

Just keep in mind the 3 body types...and that will give you an indication of how much muscle you can hold without AAS.

This entire post was contaminated with so much opinion, teenage philosophy and egomania that I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. It's a silly story filled with uneducated conclusions written by someone predisposed with their own ego.

[ghettoboyd]

I'm not interested in spoon feeding anyone, but I will say that I enjoy sharing knowledge with helping people learn. It's a matter of gratification, I feel good when I help others, and frown on selfish perspectives. It reminds me that my father was an English professor and how much that rubbed off on me.

and thats very admirable my friend but dont group those of us who have been here for years and have experiance/knowledge to share dont care bro...some of us like myself as much as we like to help are burned out on answering the same questions over and over year after year when there are countless threads and even stickyes that can answer ther questions for them and they my even learn and retain that information themselves to pass on to others in the future...just saying man thats all...

[BBrian]

and thats very admirable my friend but dont group those of us who have been here for years and have experiance/knowledge to share dont care bro...some of us like myself as much as we like to help are burned out on answering the same questions over and over year after year when there are countless threads and even stickyes that can answer ther questions for them and they my even learn and retain that information themselves to pass on to others in the future...just saying man thats all...

Yeah I can't disagree with that. It does get a little old seeing the same question posted twenty times a day, and I find myself looking for unique information and questions quite a bit. I know that not everyone has the same mentality, I was just touching on the attitude relayed in the original post regarding the inexperienced.

[ghettoboyd]

Yeah I can't disagree with that. It does get a little old seeing the same question posted twenty times a day, and I find myself looking for unique information and questions quite a bit. I know that not everyone has the same mentality, I was just touching on the attitude relayed in the original post regarding the inexperienced.

its all good brotha'....

[FireGuy]

I think some of you are missing the point of the post. If you are able to gain 25lbs of muscle on a cycle, it's saying you were obviously nowhere near your genetic potential when you started. People who train for years (decades in some cases) prior to using anabolics typically dont see these types of gains. As Lovebyts mentioned earlier, if this were the case we would all be 2 cycles away from a Pro Card. The other thing I agree with, although not articulated as well is the importance of putting in your time prior to experimenting with AAS. So many people jump on prior to mastering their diet and training that the drugs become a crutch for them. They never learned how to break through a plateau with hard work or manipulation of diet and training. Before long the answer to everything becomes higher dosages or adding more to the mix.

I would advise anyone who ever wants to compete in this sport to compete as a natural athlete for a year or two MINIMUM first. Learn how grow with proper training and diet, learn how to get your bodyfat to 5% without the use of AAS, Clen, T3 and so on. So many people are looking for the shortcuts and grossly underestimate what they are capable of doing if they would just put in the work.

[jasc]

Fire- I agree with everything you said and it's said in such a way that people will be receptive.

The original post was written with good intention, but had a negative connotation, so it won't be taken constructively by many.

[Bullseye Forever]

I totally agree with thread starter!!! I'm 45 and only started my first cycle 4 years ago.

Most people don't realize it's

80% Diet 15% Training 5% Gear

Just my .02

[DeadlyD]

Interesting tread and opinions.

[600@50]

Great post. Highly accurate from my perspective.

[BBrian]

I totally agree with thread starter!!! I'm 45 and only started my first cycle 4 years ago.

Most people don't realize it's

80% Diet 15% Training 5% Gear

Just my .02

I've always considered the equation to be something closer to 33.5% Diet, 27.75% Training, 23.25% Rest, 15% Gear, and 0.5% Organic Hemp Protein. But I could be off a fraction of a percent somewhere in there.

[Razor]

I like this post

[Bullseye Forever]

I've always considered the equation to be something closer to 33.5% Diet, 27.75% Training, 23.25% Rest, 15% Gear, and 0.5% Organic Hemp Protein. But I could be off a fraction of a percent somewhere in there.

Well I somewhat agree brother,from vets I've learned from that's done gear for decades,they just alawys told me,it doesn't matter how much gear you use,it's not gonna do any good without your nutrition being spot on, I believe a guy that does 600mg test /week and 400mg deca/week can can as much or even more than a guy doing a gram of test per week and 600mg deca per week,same size guy,but the guy with the lowest doses will out gain him because of diet,if the other guy diet is crap

[SMcB]

I've always considered the equation to be something closer to 33.5% Diet, 27.75% Training, 23.25% Rest, 15% Gear, and 0.5% Organic Hemp Protein. But I could be off a fraction of a percent somewhere in there.

Hmm, maybe I was way off on my equation: 33.3% genetics, 33.3% diet, 33.3% gear and 0.01% Joe Weider aminos