Dbol- Deca Cycle.

[gonzo6183]

Dont listen to the guy above just becasue someone is a great powerlifter or top level bodybuilder does not mean they actually know anything about how to cycle "properly"

You should start to research test only cycles, 400-500mg a week 10-12 weeks and all the rest that goes with it is something you should learn about yourself before starting, then come back when yo uthink youre ready and get another opinion, im sure guys will be much more willing to help (I know I would be) once you can show you have made a good attempt at learning yourself first

[Shadowmaker]

raghavm - it is strange how knowledge about pharmacy changes all over the world. i have been reading info in this forum for years... first of all - about 80% of stuff ppl talk about in here is not available in where i come from, so that limits everything we do over here.
second, and the most interesting part is that - what ppl in this forum call as "bad" is actually considered "the best" in my part of the world...

for example - ppl in here say, that TestE alone is a good starter cycle, while in here - 90% of young bodybuilders start with d-bol cycles, cause its cheap and ppl dont like needles.
imagine - if you're 16 yrs old, you live in a place, where u get paid like 400$ a month and a rent for a decent 1 room apartment is like 300$... all you can buy is dbol cause its pretty much the cheapest stuff over here.

another thing i find strange is - that "pct" thing about which you asked... all we can get is smth called proviron, but its not really popular... i dont know anyone who has done any pct, and anyone who has had any problems because of that...

its hard for me to explain everything, because the majority of this forum think absolutely different to that i grew up beliving in, and see all around me on daily basis.

anyway - where i come from, ppl start with dbol cycle for a month or two... if u have money, you later go to dbol+deca or if you're rich, you go dbol+deca+test/sust which is considered as the cycle with a title : "if you don't grow on this, you don't grow on anything".

this might be a sh*tty information from someone who lives in a third world country but this is how it has been done since the times of Soviet Russia when the only available thing was some russian dbol, so ppl just took that, because it was the only thing...
we just stick to the basics - take your dbol's take your deca, take some time off(no pct) and then do it all over again
might not be the right way but it works and noone has ever died or got into any health problems(we hear ppl gettin surgerys in USA for gyno, but we just wait for a month and the gyno is over )

[Shadowmaker]

actually, if you would ask smth about the first cycle to any bodybuilder in here, the first and only advice would be - dbol.
i cant even imagine someone saying : "start with testE and do some pct"

P.S - before ppl lite their torches : im not saying that im right or someone has to do what i say... this might be terribly wrong etc, but im just tryin to make some variety of opinions in here and share some different experience

[raghavm]

raghavm - it is strange how knowledge about pharmacy changes all over the world. i have been reading info in this forum for years... first of all - about 80% of stuff ppl talk about in here is not available in where i come from, so that limits everything we do over here.
second, and the most interesting part is that - what ppl in this forum call as "bad" is actually considered "the best" in my part of the world...

for example - ppl in here say, that TestE alone is a good starter cycle, while in here - 90% of young bodybuilders start with d-bol cycles, cause its cheap and ppl dont like needles.
imagine - if you're 16 yrs old, you live in a place, where u get paid like 400$ a month and a rent for a decent 1 room apartment is like 300$... all you can buy is dbol cause its pretty much the cheapest stuff over here.

another thing i find strange is - that "pct" thing about which you asked... all we can get is smth called proviron, but its not really popular... i dont know anyone who has done any pct, and anyone who has had any problems because of that...

its hard for me to explain everything, because the majority of this forum think absolutely different to that i grew up beliving in, and see all around me on daily basis.

anyway - where i come from, ppl start with dbol cycle for a month or two... if u have money, you later go to dbol+deca or if you're rich, you go dbol+deca+test/sust which is considered as the cycle with a title : "if you don't grow on this, you don't grow on anything".

this might be a sh*tty information from someone who lives in a third world country but this is how it has been done since the times of Soviet Russia when the only available thing was some russian dbol, so ppl just took that, because it was the only thing...
we just stick to the basics - take your dbol's take your deca, take some time off(no pct) and then do it all over again
might not be the right way but it works and noone has ever died or got into any health problems(we hear ppl gettin surgerys in USA for gyno, but we just wait for a month and the gyno is over )

Well, you sound like Mick Hart, lol. He wrote in the book that people worry a lot about PCT, almost 80% of the people are either doing too little or are doing fake stuff, either ways all they have to do is give their body time and allow it to recover. However he somehow didint mention how much of the gains are these people able to keep after they are done with the cycle? Anyways, tell me how much were you able to keep after your cycle ? Please dont temme that you didint loose anything at all. :P

So gyno does set in, right? From what I have read so far I have learnt that once it sets in the only way to get rid of it is to go under the knife. I dont understand as to how it can go away just like that.

[Shadowmaker]

Anyways, tell me how much were you able to keep after your cycle ?

i went from 202lbs to 226lbs and kept 220lbs... its hard to tell because after a few months i did another cycle, but what i know is - that my first cycle got me over 220lbs and i have never been under that line unless some long and brutal cutting without juice

So gyno does set in, right? From what I have read so far I have learnt that once it sets in the only way to get rid of it is to go under the knife. I dont understand as to how it can go away just like that.

i gues it depends on the size... i usually get lump about the size of a raisin or a bit smaller... it goes away in a few weeks...
i have overdone lots of juice from time to time, but never had any problems with recovery after that without PCT... if honest, if not for weight gain i would never know the difference between me natural and me on 1,5grams of test + deca + dbol(yeah, i have done stupid mistakes with stupid dosages)...

[Judah]

i went from 202lbs to 226lbs and kept 220lbs... its hard to tell because after a few months i did another cycle, but what i know is - that my first cycle got me over 220lbs and i have never been under that line unless some long and brutal cutting without juice



i gues it depends on the size... i usually get lump about the size of a raisin or a bit smaller... it goes away in a few weeks...
i have overdone lots of juice from time to time, but never had any problems with recovery after that without PCT... if honest, if not for weight gain i would never know the difference between me natural and me on 1,5grams of test + deca + dbol(yeah, i have done stupid mistakes with stupid dosages)...

Besides a gain in weight you look no diff?

[raghavm]

i went from 202lbs to 226lbs and kept 220lbs... its hard to tell because after a few months i did another cycle, but what i know is - that my first cycle got me over 220lbs and i have never been under that line unless some long and brutal cutting without juice



i gues it depends on the size... i usually get lump about the size of a raisin or a bit smaller... it goes away in a few weeks...
i have overdone lots of juice from time to time, but never had any problems with recovery after that without PCT... if honest, if not for weight gain i would never know the difference between me natural and me on 1,5grams of test + deca + dbol(yeah, i have done stupid mistakes with stupid dosages)...

Okay, I still cant figure out how were you able to keep most of your gains with your body so full of catabolic hormones. Though I have limited understanding of the topic but I think PCT is not something you should mess around with especially after a heavy-duty cycle.

Ahh, I see, but still Im scared to death of the "bitch tits", haha, So I wouldn't want gyno to set in at all.

[Judah]

Okay, I still cant figure out how were you able to keep most of your gains with your body so full of catabolic hormones. Though I have limited understanding of the topic but I think PCT is not something you should mess around with especially after a heavy-duty cycle.

Ahh, I see, but still Im scared to death of the "bitch tits", haha, So I wouldn't want gyno to set in at all.

If you have a good training base and you know how to eat and you have not reached your "genetic max" you can keep a lot of your gains. It's all about nutrition before during and after...training is a close second.

[KINGKONG]

I've heard that of saw pallmeto how many mg a day?

[raghavm]

If you have a good training base and you know how to eat and you have not reached your "genetic max" you can keep a lot of your gains. It's all about nutrition before during and after...training is a close second.

Well if only that were enough to keep most of your gains then why do we need to do PCT at all?

[KINGKONG]

raghavm - it is strange how knowledge about pharmacy changes all over the world. i have been reading info in this forum for years... first of all - about 80% of stuff ppl talk about in here is not available in where i come from, so that limits everything we do over here.
second, and the most interesting part is that - what ppl in this forum call as "bad" is actually considered "the best" in my part of the world...

for example - ppl in here say, that TestE alone is a good starter cycle, while in here - 90% of young bodybuilders start with d-bol cycles, cause its cheap and ppl dont like needles.
imagine - if you're 16 yrs old, you live in a place, where u get paid like 400$ a month and a rent for a decent 1 room apartment is like 300$... all you can buy is dbol cause its pretty much the cheapest stuff over here.

another thing i find strange is - that "pct" thing about which you asked... all we can get is smth called proviron, but its not really popular... i dont know anyone who has done any pct, and anyone who has had any problems because of that...

its hard for me to explain everything, because the majority of this forum think absolutely different to that i grew up beliving in, and see all around me on daily basis.

anyway - where i come from, ppl start with dbol cycle for a month or two... if u have money, you later go to dbol+deca or if you're rich, you go dbol+deca+test/sust which is considered as the cycle with a title : "if you don't grow on this, you don't grow on anything".

this might be a sh*tty information from someone who lives in a third world country but this is how it has been done since the times of Soviet Russia when the only available thing was some russian dbol, so ppl just took that, because it was the only thing...
we just stick to the basics - take your dbol's take your deca, take some time off(no pct) and then do it all over again
might not be the right way but it works and noone has ever died or got into any health problems(we hear ppl gettin surgerys in USA for gyno, but we just wait for a month and the gyno is over e)

Not great advice but at least ur honest

[raghavm]

Dont listen to the guy above just becasue someone is a great powerlifter or top level bodybuilder does not mean they actually know anything about how to cycle "properly"

You should start to research test only cycles, 400-500mg a week 10-12 weeks and all the rest that goes with it is something you should learn about yourself before starting, then come back when yo uthink youre ready and get another opinion, im sure guys will be much more willing to help (I know I would be) once you can show you have made a good attempt at learning yourself first

Thanks for the reply, and yes I did go through like 500 pages of Layman guide to Steroids, seems like whatever I learned from there is obsolete. According to Mick Hart the deca-dbol cycle is supposed to be one of the basic Beginner cycle.

Anyways, the biggest problem I have is there are shit loads of fake stuff available on the market, especially where I live. I can get my hands on just three legit products Dbol, Deca and Sustanon, so I have got to do the best with whats available here. : (

[KINGKONG]

Thanks for the reply, and yes I did go through like 500 pages of Layman guide to Steroids, seems like whatever I learned from there is obsolete. According to Mick Hart the deca-dbol cycle is supposed to be one of the basic Beginner cycle.

Anyways, the biggest problem I have is there are shit loads of fake stuff available on the market, especially where I live. I can get my hands on just three legit products Dbol, Deca and Sustanon, so I have got to do the best with whats available here. : (

Do the sus..for now

[raghavm]

Do the sus..for now

After reading ( ALOTT) for the last 2 days, and keeping in mind that I do not have lot of choices at my disposal, I have come up with this cycle, views on this guys. Pretty ambitious?

Weeks 1-4 20 mg Dbol, 10mg Nolvadex ED,.5mg Arimedix E4D.
Weeks 1-16 Sustanon 500mg a week,2 x a week at 250mg Mon, Thurs.
Weeks 5-18 Arimidex at .5 mg E3D, increasing to E2D if needed.
weeks 19-21 Arimidex at .5mg E3D, E4D, E5D ( tapering it down)
weeks 19-23 Nolvadex at 20mg ED for the first two weeks and then dropping to 10mg ED for the last three weeks.

A little help on as to how (and when) to incorporate Clomid into my PCT?

[KINGKONG]

After reading ( ALOTT) for the last 2 days, and keeping in mind that I do not have lot of choices at my disposal, I have come up with this cycle, views on this guys. Pretty ambitious?

Weeks 1-4 20 mg Dbol, 10mg Nolvadex ED,.5mg Arimedix E4D.
Weeks 1-16 Sustanon 500mg a week,2 x a week at 250mg Mon, Thurs.
Weeks 5-18 Arimidex at .5 mg E3D, increasing to E2D if needed.
weeks 19-21 Arimidex at .5mg E3D, E4D, E5D ( tapering it down)
weeks 19-23 Nolvadex at 20mg ED for the first two weeks and then dropping to 10mg ED for the last three weeks.

A little help on as to how (and when) to incorporate Clomid into my PCT?

Much better but I would just use a clomid pct and only take the nolva during the cycle if ur nips start to feel funny itchy it's a chem the less the better..look up a simple clomid pct

[raghavm]

Much better but I would just use a clomid pct and only take the nolva during the cycle if ur nips start to feel funny itchy it's a chem the less the better..look up a simple clomid pct

A question here though, isint prevention better than cure? Its gotta aromatize into estrogen, so why wait till the nips get super sensitive, is it not better to run Nolvadex ( at least when Im running Dbol)? Or perhaps there is no need to take Nolvadex as Im already taking Armidex E4D for the first 4 weeks?

One last question, I know I ask lotsa questions, do you know( or have read) if Nolvadex hampers muscle growth? I have read that it does.

And I will look up Clomid PCT then, thanks.

[KINGKONG]

A question here though, isint prevention better than cure? Its gotta aromatize into estrogen, so why wait till the nips get super sensitive, is it not better to run Nolvadex ( at least when Im running Dbol)? Or perhaps there is no need to take Nolvadex as Im already taking Armidex E4D for the first 4 weeks?

One last question, I know I ask lotsa questions, do you know( or have read) if Nolvadex hampers muscle growth? I have read that it does.

And I will look up Clomid PCT then, thanks.

I don't think nolvadex would hamper growth seeing how it's just a estro blocker not a estro inhibitor like arimidex..I just have never had problems that require nolvadex some do,some don't see before u take meds u don't need to take the arimidex isn't really necessary unless ur really worried about bloat..

[KINGKONG]

Oh and a guy who has trained and dieted for 18 years and forgot more about aas then most will ever know

[Judah]

Thanks for the reply, and yes I did go through like 500 pages of Layman guide to Steroids, seems like whatever I learned from there is obsolete. According to Mick Hart the deca-dbol cycle is supposed to be one of the basic Beginner cycle.

Anyways, the biggest problem I have is there are shit loads of fake stuff available on the market, especially where I live. I can get my hands on just three legit products Dbol, Deca and Sustanon, so I have got to do the best with whats available here. : (

Sust is great. If you can't get reliable Test-E or C and you know your Sust connection is legit just go with that as your first cycle.