Shorter mild cycle = less or no need for HCG?

[Atomini]

Alright, I think i'm going to need to start a separate thread informing people of how outdated an inefficient Clomid is... this is getting crazy the amount of people who still cling to the clomid protocols.

I believe HCG isn't a requirement at all, and should only be used if you are having the utmost trouble getting your testosterone levels back up.

HCG could be considered an initial boost, or a quick boost to the leydig cells of your testes, but not a long term solution. And definitely not a solitary solution. Nolvadex is your answer to that. If one is going to use HCG, its exact use would be in the week or 2 immediately following an anabolic steroid cycle to get the testicles producing testosterone immediately, while taking nolvadex at that time as well. Then the HCG would be halted, and the nolvadex continued for another 2-3 weeks following it to ensure proper endogenous gonadotropin production. If you were to use ONLY HCG as your PCT , you would be in big trouble trying to get your body back to normal, because it would suppress your own body's gonadotropin production (HCG is basically synthetic gonadotropin). Thus, you would be stuck in a vicious circle. The way I see it, you should be trying to get your hypothalamus to be releasing gonadotropins itself - this is what Nolvadex is excellent at doing.

So in short, I would not advise HCG except for situations in which you are shut down extremely hard and need that initial boost. Otherwise, Nolvadex does just fine.

[Razor]

Alright, I think i'm going to need to start a separate thread informing people of how outdated an inefficient Clomid is... this is getting crazy the amount of people who still cling to the clomid protocols.

I believe HCG isn't a requirement at all, and should only be used if you are having the utmost trouble getting your testosterone levels back up.

HCG could be considered an initial boost, or a quick boost to the leydig cells of your testes, but not a long term solution. And definitely not a solitary solution. Nolvadex is your answer to that. If one is going to use HCG, its exact use would be in the week or 2 immediately following an anabolic steroid cycle to get the testicles producing testosterone immediately, while taking nolvadex at that time as well. Then the HCG would be halted, and the nolvadex continued for another 2-3 weeks following it to ensure proper endogenous gonadotropin production. If you were to use ONLY HCG as your PCT , you would be in big trouble trying to get your body back to normal, because it would suppress your own body's gonadotropin production (HCG is basically synthetic gonadotropin). Thus, you would be stuck in a vicious circle. The way I see it, you should be trying to get your hypothalamus to be releasing gonadotropins itself - this is what Nolvadex is excellent at doing.

So in short, I would not advise HCG except for situations in which you are shut down extremely hard and need that initial boost. Otherwise, Nolvadex does just fine.

Good shit, I agree, people put to much faith in clomid these days, it came it in what the 50's early 60's? Torem and raloxifene came out like a few years ago

As far as HCG, write up a new thread on that too man, we need a updated one. Im in the old mindset that you need to run it on cycle, but appears might have to be run all the time.

[Judah]

Alright, I think i'm going to need to start a separate thread informing people of how outdated an inefficient Clomid is... this is getting crazy the amount of people who still cling to the clomid protocols.

I believe HCG isn't a requirement at all, and should only be used if you are having the utmost trouble getting your testosterone levels back up.

HCG could be considered an initial boost, or a quick boost to the leydig cells of your testes, but not a long term solution. And definitely not a solitary solution. Nolvadex is your answer to that. If one is going to use HCG, its exact use would be in the week or 2 immediately following an anabolic steroid cycle to get the testicles producing testosterone immediately, while taking nolvadex at that time as well. Then the HCG would be halted, and the nolvadex continued for another 2-3 weeks following it to ensure proper endogenous gonadotropin production. If you were to use ONLY HCG as your PCT , you would be in big trouble trying to get your body back to normal, because it would suppress your own body's gonadotropin production (HCG is basically synthetic gonadotropin). Thus, you would be stuck in a vicious circle. The way I see it, you should be trying to get your hypothalamus to be releasing gonadotropins itself - this is what Nolvadex is excellent at doing.

So in short, I would not advise HCG except for situations in which you are shut down extremely hard and need that initial boost. Otherwise, Nolvadex does just fine.

So your recommendation is as follows:

Drop the hcg during the cycle?

Drop Clomid and use Torem instead?

Use HCG just for bridging between cycle and post cycle? How much if so?

[kronik420]

Alright, I think i'm going to need to start a separate thread informing people of how outdated an inefficient Clomid is... this is getting crazy the amount of people who still cling to the clomid protocols.

I believe HCG isn't a requirement at all, and should only be used if you are having the utmost trouble getting your testosterone levels back up.

HCG could be considered an initial boost, or a quick boost to the leydig cells of your testes, but not a long term solution. And definitely not a solitary solution. Nolvadex is your answer to that. If one is going to use HCG, its exact use would be in the week or 2 immediately following an anabolic steroid cycle to get the testicles producing testosterone immediately, while taking nolvadex at that time as well. Then the HCG would be halted, and the nolvadex continued for another 2-3 weeks following it to ensure proper endogenous gonadotropin production. If you were to use ONLY HCG as your PCT , you would be in big trouble trying to get your body back to normal, because it would suppress your own body's gonadotropin production (HCG is basically synthetic gonadotropin). Thus, you would be stuck in a vicious circle. The way I see it, you should be trying to get your hypothalamus to be releasing gonadotropins itself - this is what Nolvadex is excellent at doing.

So in short, I would not advise HCG except for situations in which you are shut down extremely hard and need that initial boost. Otherwise, Nolvadex does just fine.

If you used HCG during your cycle, wouldn't that prevent you HTPA from getting shut down? making PCT all the more easy?

[Atomini]

If you used HCG during your cycle, wouldn't that prevent you HTPA from getting shut down? making PCT all the more easy?

Yes, this is true. Though with shorter cycles, it isn't that essential. It is mostly reccomended for longer cycles where the body's HPTA is shut down for extended periods of time where the risk of permanent atrophy is very great. It is a good precautionary measure though, even for short cycles. But not essential.

[Lemonada8]

If you used HCG during your cycle, wouldn't that prevent you HTPA from getting shut down? making PCT all the more easy?

actually HCG will not prevent the HPTA from shutting down at all, what it does is keep the testes funtioning during the cycle because it is the slowest to recover from shutdown. The pit and hypothalamus are very rapid in restabilizing compared to the testes.