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Thread: HCG dose and time

  1. #1
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    HCG dose and time

    http://www.steroid.com/HCG.php

    Clearly says that cycles longer than 6 weeks are bad... yet many say that 8 weeks (ie: 12 weeks of test. Starting HCG at week 3 until week 14), or even 10 weeks of HCG is a good way to counter testicular atrophy. To totally prevent your body from shutting down. But it seems that using HCG at 250iu's for that time frame will do the samething.

    I'm about to start my first (well, not about too but soon) test e cycle (first aas ever) and HCG was recommended. Just want to make sure I have all the information possible before deciding to run this 10 weeks or 5 weeks. Everything else seems to be universely accepted.

    Test 250mg twice a week for 12 weeks
    Clomid/Nolva 2 weeks after last test injection
    HCG (250iu's the entire time) last pin is a few days before start of PCT.

    Just need to know how long to run the HCG for!

  2. #2
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    start hcg (2/wk@250iu's)with test OR if you like based on 5k hcg you could start it in the third wk. end with last pin of test

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    But thats 10 weeks of HCG. The steroid profile clearly says that's a no no.

    "As stated above the cycles of HCG should be in the 2 to 3 week range with a least one month off in between, you could stretch your cycle out to four weeks without any major concern if you are using lower doses. One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the bodys natural production of gonadotropins permanently"

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    HCG – Unraveled
    Posted on October 11, 2009 by Eric Potratz

    HCG unraveled –

    Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to increase testosterone levels. (1) More specifically LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.

    When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during Post-Cycle-Therapy. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.

    Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960′s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

    One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given level of LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger natural testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production. (recovering full testosterone production is a topic for another article)

    To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

    Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) So do not judge how “shutdown” you are by testicular size!

    The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production) 20

    In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

    Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start Post-Cycle-Therapy so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

    Based off the above information, an optimal dose of hCG during the cycle would be 250iu every 4 days, or as a less desirable alternative, once a week shot of 500iu. Keep in mind, that the half-life of hCG is 3-4 days, while the half-life of LH is only 1-2 hours. Considering this difference in excretion time, it is best to space each dose of hCG at least 4 days apart for the optimal “peak and valley” replication. However, going more than 7 days between each hCG shot may promote increase the rate of desensitization from lack of LH or hCG stimulation.

    If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG “kick starting” dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose) Remember, since the testes will be desensitized later in a cycle, you will require a higher dose. Also, the maximum daily dose of hCG should not exceed 5000iu, and 4-7 days must be taken off between each shot. Generally, a higher dose will require a longer off period between each shot. (eg., 2500iu = 7 days between each shot)

    Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

    Recap -

    For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 250iu every 4 days starting 14 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels. This will initiate a strong LH and FSH surge from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

    In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.

  5. #5
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    standard protocol is 250iu's/wk on cycle. HCG comes in 5000iu vials this is perfect for 10 wks. it's ok to start two wks into your cycle with long esters.

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    the information youre quoting is outdated with respect to current studies and protocols. (Dr. Chrisler/Dr. Shippen)

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    Thanks a lot man... I really appreciate it!

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    Is it possible to not use the entire bottle of hCG at once? I am being told that once you mix it, you have 30 days. So you need 2 bottles to complete the 8 weeks of use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser
    Is it possible to not use the entire bottle of hCG at once? I am being told that once you mix it, you have 30 days. So you need 2 bottles to complete the 8 weeks of use.
    Not at 250iu dosage. For a 5000iu standard bottle, that would last 10 weeks if done 2x weekly. 20 if only pinned once a week.

    Although i have heard the potency of hcg decreases after about 6 weeks after reconstituted. So there is that factor as well...

  10. #10
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    That's what I was afraid of. I bought one vial that is 5000iu's. But i'm afraid that it will go "bad" before I even finish it. Now I don't mind buying another vial and throwing the wasted product out. But I only bought one! :-(

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser
    That's what I was afraid of. I bought one vial that is 5000iu's. But i'm afraid that it will go "bad" before I even finish it. Now I don't mind buying another vial and throwing the wasted product out. But I only bought one! :-(
    I'd say buy another if you can then and you're all good.

  12. #12
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    I guess I could... just wanted to avoid going through that process again.

    But unfortunately, my question still wasn't answered.

    If there is a way to savor the 5000 iu's. Since I should be able, realistically, have 2 solid months out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser
    I guess I could... just wanted to avoid going through that process again.

    But unfortunately, my question still wasn't answered.

    If there is a way to savor the 5000 iu's. Since I should be able, realistically, have 2 solid months out of it.
    If you want to run it correctly, you're most likely not gonna get away with "savoring" just one bottle Bro.

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    How about the mixing and injecting of the HCG? Is there a better way to do that? A friend of mine say to inject it into your stomach?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser
    How about the mixing and injecting of the HCG? Is there a better way to do that? A friend of mine say to inject it into your stomach?
    Yes into you're belly. I just punch some in between my fingers under my belly button. Go in at an angle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyKnox View Post
    HCG – Unraveled
    Posted on October 11, 2009 by Eric Potratz

    HCG unraveled –

    Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to increase testosterone levels. (1) More specifically LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.

    When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during Post-Cycle-Therapy. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.

    Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960′s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

    One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given level of LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger natural testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production. (recovering full testosterone production is a topic for another article)

    To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

    Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) So do not judge how “shutdown” you are by testicular size!

    The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production) 20

    In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

    Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start Post-Cycle-Therapy so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

    Based off the above information, an optimal dose of hCG during the cycle would be 250iu every 4 days, or as a less desirable alternative, once a week shot of 500iu. Keep in mind, that the half-life of hCG is 3-4 days, while the half-life of LH is only 1-2 hours. Considering this difference in excretion time, it is best to space each dose of hCG at least 4 days apart for the optimal “peak and valley” replication. However, going more than 7 days between each hCG shot may promote increase the rate of desensitization from lack of LH or hCG stimulation.

    If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG “kick starting” dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose) Remember, since the testes will be desensitized later in a cycle, you will require a higher dose. Also, the maximum daily dose of hCG should not exceed 5000iu, and 4-7 days must be taken off between each shot. Generally, a higher dose will require a longer off period between each shot. (eg., 2500iu = 7 days between each shot)

    Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

    Recap -

    For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 250iu every 4 days starting 14 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels. This will initiate a strong LH and FSH surge from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

    In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.
    Oh Jeez Mickey. Now you got me worried that I didn't get HCG for my cycle. I saw some differing opinions and decided to go without it for the first cycle. I am two weeks in so certainly not to late to get some. Is this available at AR-R? Can you combine the test and HCG in same syringe for injection at same time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Live for the PUMP

    Oh Jeez Mickey. Now you got me worried that I didn't get HCG for my cycle. I saw some differing opinions and decided to go without it for the first cycle. I am two weeks in so certainly not to late to get some. Is this available at AR-R? Can you combine the test and HCG in same syringe for injection at same time?
    No. Test is injected intramuscularly. Hcg is injected subcutaneously, or under the skin into the fat.

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    Thank you Mickey! This helped clarify that I should have already stopped hcg with my last pin instead of running it until only a few days before pct

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    What kind of pin do you use to inject the HCG?

    http://www.ar-r.com/accessories/syri...eedles-23g-x-1
    I was going to get these for injecting the test.

    http://www.ar-r.com/accessories/syri...rumo-18g-x-1-5
    To pull the test.

    That'll work, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Live for the PUMP View Post
    Oh Jeez Mickey. Now you got me worried that I didn't get HCG for my cycle. I saw some differing opinions and decided to go without it for the first cycle. I am two weeks in so certainly not to late to get some. Is this available at AR-R? Can you combine the test and HCG in same syringe for injection at same time?
    no and NO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser View Post
    What kind of pin do you use to inject the HCG?

    http://www.ar-r.com/accessories/syri...eedles-23g-x-1
    I was going to get these for injecting the test.

    http://www.ar-r.com/accessories/syri...rumo-18g-x-1-5
    To pull the test.

    That'll work, no?
    yes and yes.

    but you may want to pick up some 1.5 23g for glutes depending on how lean you are.

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    jacked out of my bird! hahaha j/k

    no glutes for me. Sciatic nerve in there... gonna stay from that!

    Left delt, right delt, left bicet, right bicep. Although i'm not sure of the bicep pin. Will probably do delts and quads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser
    jacked out of my bird! hahaha j/k

    no glutes for me. Sciatic nerve in there... gonna stay from that!

    Left delt, right delt, left bicet, right bicep. Although i'm not sure of the bicep pin. Will probably do delts and quads.
    Glutes are generally the easiest for most guys. Good luck on biceps. I did that a few times. I'm not a fan of it. Rear and lateral delts are pretty easy. Quads are generally good too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser
    jacked out of my bird! hahaha j/k

    no glutes for me. Sciatic nerve in there... gonna stay from that!

    Left delt, right delt, left bicet, right bicep. Although i'm not sure of the bicep pin. Will probably do delts and quads.
    Is this your first cycle? As long as you pin in the right spot on your glute it's not hard to miss your sciatic. Let's see if you rethink this after pinning in your bicep and can barely bend your arm for a couple days. That shit hurts!!

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    I am reading that I should use a 25g 1" for glutes and delts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyphy_beast View Post
    Is this your first cycle?
    Yea, just trying to get the mechanics of this perfect. A little tentative on doing this. I don't want to screw it up. I've been doing some reading on it (a lot actually) and I am always reading different ideas, suggestions, "perfect" ideas,
    etc..

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    Did you read my edited post?

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    You may even require hgc for a first cycle of standard mgs and lenghth. Personally I would hold off on it until a few weeks before your pct and blast like 1500 2x a week or you could do a many different things, but mickey has given you good advise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser View Post
    I am reading that I should use a 25g 1" for glutes and delts?
    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyKnox View Post
    yes and yes.

    but you may want to pick up some 1.5 23g for glutes depending on how lean you are.
    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyKnox View Post
    ....
    hahahaha... missed that! :-)

    I did go back and look for the needle size for pinning HCG and didn't notice an answer. :-/

    I see people saying to use slin pins 29g 1/2". Others saying to use 25ga 1 1/2" but leave a 1/2" out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ineedauser View Post
    hahahaha... missed that! :-)

    I did go back and look for the needle size for pinning HCG and didn't notice an answer. :-/

    I see people saying to use slin pins 29g 1/2". Others saying to use 25ga 1 1/2" but leave a 1/2" out.
    this is fine for hcg.

    a 25g 1.5" pin is commonly used for glutes. the extra .5" is for the extra fat generally associated to your butt (glute) so, when they leave out the 1/2" it's likely because they are leaner or simply are fine with using the shorter pin on the glutes.

    23g 1" is used just about everywhere else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironbeck View Post
    You may even require hgc for a first cycle of standard mgs and lenghth. Personally I would hold off on it until a few weeks before your pct and blast like 1500 2x a week or you could do a many different things, but mickey has given you good advise.
    i would disagree with that protocal. You increase the chances of increased aromatase, and increased bio-inactive LH production.

    The HCG profile on this site, about no longer than 6 weeks, is based on using HCG alone to boost test without being on a cycle. That isnt a wise choice. It really doestn boost it that much to see a noticable difference compared to a cycle, and can cause problems with the natural balancing done by the body.

    250ius 2x a week is perfect for the whole cycle up till the first day of pct.

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    This is Quoted from a doctor that treats patients with hypogonadism and steroid abuse,his treatment is backed up with blood work that verifies results.I have used this method with and without HCG and recovered fine.I have also done cycles when i first started steroids and not done any PCT and recoved fine also,but was only because at the time PCT was an unknown subject.I also only did 8 week cycles which are easier to recover from,and usually did 3 cycles a year with 8 weeks off each cycle. Even with steroids your gains will reach a sticking point and you wont put on any more mass,for me 8 weeks of intense training was my sticking point so i saw no reason to continue the cycle any longer. The doctor is also advocating starting the Clomid and Nolvadex while on HCG to get your LH production started so when you stop the HCG your LH level is high enough to sustain your Testerone production.When i did PCT with HCG i only used it for the last 4 weeks of the 8 week cycle,1 5000 iu bottle of HCG taken 500 iu every three days will last one month.

    Q: What’s the logic behind all the different timing and dosing of HCG ?? We hear taking it every day, every other day, every 3rd, 4th, or 5th day.

    What about the dosing ? I hear to take it easy to prevent desensitizing the testes. With this you hear anywhere from 100 units to 250 units to play it safe. Others say anywhere from 500 to 2500 units at a time…Isn’t that a bit much ?

    What about the length of time? I hear two clinics suggest 10 days; others say 3-5 weeks. Where does all this come from and who’s right?

    A: Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on TRT are posted. The use of hCG for PCT is only partly related to its use on TRT.

    hCG while on TRT is used for two reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on TRT it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

    Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG. I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG.

    hCG for PCT involves additional concepts. This is the timing of hCG in relation to other medications for return of HPTA functionality. Under normal conditions the HPTA is a tightly coupled dynamic feedback loop. It is this coupling that has to be achieved after AAS cessation to return to normal. The analogy I use is the starting of a car by pushing it from behind. Alone the care will not start but with pushing the clutch can be popped and the car started.

    After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to ‘push’ the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail.

    The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor. Clomiphene will increase the secretion of LH by action at the hypothalamo-pituitary area. Clomiphene will cause an increase in LH and secondarily increases in T and estradiol. Estradiol has a negative feedback influence on the HPTA. Estradiol is 200X the inhibitory effect of T per molar basis. Normal serum levels are the following:

    Testosterone: 3-10 ng/ml (10-35 nM/L)

    Estradiol: 15-65 pg/ml (55-240 pmol/L)

    Tamoxifen will counteract the effect of the estradiol. Once the hCG is withdrawn the LH, initiated by clomiphene and tamoxifen, will couple with the testicles and take over production of T by the testicles. The levels of LH to maintain and couple with the testicles are maintained by clomiphene and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is continued for 15 days while Tamoxifen is continued for 30 days.

    In healthy adult men, circulating levels of testosterone have a distinct pattern, with increasing levels during sleep toward a maximum around the time of awakening and a decrease during the day. In PCT hCG is administered every other day. I suggest the same time each injection in an attempt to simulate this rhythm. This is purely empirical but I recommend hCG at bedtime (2200). Clomiphene is taken in divided doses of 50mg 2X/day.
    Last edited by MR10X; 09-14-2012 at 04:16 AM.

  34. #34
    Join Date
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    excellent read!

    do you have the link to study you referred to? or the link to this excerpt/quote?

  35. #35
    Join Date
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    Very informative. I would also like to see this link so I can research further
    Last edited by hyphy_beast; 09-14-2012 at 09:48 AM.

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