Caber + Letro to prevent gyno?

[Randy_Mar]

I will soon be starting Test-E + Tren-E cycle.

Whats your thoughts on running caber + letro to prevent gyno. I still feel sensitive/puffy on both nips at times, and it's been about 2yrs since last cycle.
I'll be running about 200mg test/wk and 400mg tren/wk. Bumping up to 300mg test later in cycle. (trying to avoid gaining weight...shooting for strength only)

If the caber and letro would be ok, what's a good dosage?

THANKS!

[MickeyKnox]

what is your current protocol for caber/letro? and i wouldn't bump your test, more test is unusually associated with more sides. 200mg test/wk is plenty to run alongside tren.

[Randy_Mar]

what is your current protocol for caber/letro? and i wouldn't bump your test, more test is unusually associated with more sides. 200mg test/wk is plenty to run alongside tren.

I was thinking of .5mg daily of the caber, and start off at .5 of letro (working my way up to 1.25mg) - I've done 2.5mg of letro before with no sides (but this was while not being on cycle)

And thanks for the tip about the test (i'll stick to 200mg) - I was only bumping it because I had extra. But less sides sounds like a better option lol!!

[MickeyKnox]

sorry i misread that i thought you ON.

regardless, .5 caber twice a wk is common and typically is enough. if youre sensitive to gyno you could increase that to three times or eod. i believe the half life is 5-6days. there are on cycle protocols for letro outlined on this site. do a quick search, shouldn't have any trouble finding them.

but start out small and monitor. then increase accordingly. very difficult to say how youre going to react until youre on and able to monitor. past exp can provide some insight. what did you do last cycle?

[Randy_Mar]

sorry i misread that i thought you ON.

regardless, .5 caber twice a wk is common and typically is enough. if youre sensitive to gyno you could increase that to three times or eod. i believe the half life is 5-6days. there are on cycle protocols for letro outlined on this site. do a quick search, shouldn't have any trouble finding them.

but start out small and monitor. then increase accordingly. very difficult to say how youre going to react until youre on and able to monitor. past exp can provide some insight. what did you do last cycle?

Yea, I've read C Bino's letro post...good stuff!!

Last cycle 2 years ago, I did Tren & halo (no test) - Which was stupid, i know!! I still think (know) that's why i have sensitive nips now!
(and I did my pct, but nothing while i was on cycle)

[MickeyKnox]

you should be using an ai on cycle. most of the time if you combat the rising estro, youre potential gyno will not rear it's head. run aromasin 12.5eod or dex at .25eod.

[Randy_Mar]

you should be using an ai on cycle. most of the time if you combat the rising estro, youre potential gyno will not rear it's head. run aromasin 12.5eod or dex at .25eod.

Isn't letro an AI (just a more potent one) ?

[MickeyKnox]

yes it is but i wouldn't use that unless absolutely necessary. have it on hand always.

[Randy_Mar]

yes it is but i wouldn't use that unless absolutely necessary. have it on hand always.

Got ya! I see what you're saying.

So I could run the dex (.25eod) on cycle.
Do i run the caber .5 twice a week as well?

Also, at what point do i use the letro...If i feel sensitive? And if so, do i keep taking the dex at .25eod?

[MickeyKnox]

that's fine. if you feel sensitive i wouldn't immediately jump on letro. i would increase my dex first and monitor.

[Randy_Mar]

that's fine. if you feel sensitive i wouldn't immediately jump on letro. i would increase my dex first and monitor.

Perfect!! Thanks for the help Bro. I been trying to figure out my "on cycle" strategy, and this clears some things up. I'll grab some Arimidex & caber, since i have the letro already.

I'm just trying to be over-cautious since i feel like i have some pre-existing gyno.

[MickeyKnox]

youre welcome. have you done any blood work recently?

[Randy_Mar]

None at all. I'm guessing I should?

[MickeyKnox]

for sure! ask for a full blood assay. very important to know your baseline before starting a cycle. this will provide valuable info including where your e levels are.

youre proposed cycle should look like this:

test e wk 1-12 200mg 2/wk
tren e wk 1-10 400mg 2/wk
dex .25eod to start and then monitor
caber .5mg 2/wk
letro on hand

pct
clomid 75/50/50/50
nolva 40/40/20/20

[Randy_Mar]

Awesome, thanks! That pretty much looks like the cycle i had in mind.
Only difference is that I had the Tren running to week 10, then Test only for wk 11 & 12 ( I heard it was good to run test for a week or two after tren) <---Any thoughts on this???

Also, I plan on throwing in some Halotestin 40mg/day) for wk 7-10. (Week 10 is when I planned on competing in my armwrestling tournament)

My pct is spot on to your suggestions!

[MickeyKnox]

sorry youre correct. im used to discussing the short esters. 14days longer for test e because of the longer ester in tren e. iow, stop your tren two wks in advance of test e.

[Randy_Mar]

sorry youre correct. im used to discussing the short esters. 14days longer for test e because of the longer ester in tren e. iow, stop your tren two wks in advance of test e.

Can I control my weight gain on this cycle (with cardio and diet)? I'm 180, and trying to keep my gain to 5-7lbs. This way I can still cut my weight and make 176lb weight category.

[MickeyKnox]

you certainly can provided your diet is spot on. head over to the Nutrition section and put up your proposed diet (including macros) and let the folks in there take a look and help you tweak it according to your goals.

[Randy_Mar]

Yea, i need help in that department! I luckily have a good metabolism and great genetics, because my diet always sucks. Plus I'm super pickey (not a good combo!)

I'll have to live on multi-vitamins and chicken breast i think lol

[MickeyKnox]

no worries. you'll get it dialed in before you begin your cycle.

post it up and good luck!

[Atomini]

I haven't read any of the posts here, but i'll say that Caber should be dosed weekly, not daily. At most, 2x per week dosing. If lets say your goal is 1mg/week of Caber, you'd do 0.5mg monday and then 0.5mg on thursday for example.

[Vettester]

None at all. I'm guessing I should?

You really should. Especially on E2, you need to take the speculation out of the equation.

I'd personally be worried about your proposed Letro protocol crashing your E2. I believe it's effective rate on inhibiting aromatase activity is at/around 98%, whereas a compound like Anastrozole is closer to 80%. Yeah, you don't want your E2 jumping up, but don't crash yourself either, as a healthy level of estradiol is needed for men just the same. Here's a sticky about E2 management in our HRT forum http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ou-should-know . Well worth reading just to get some more knowledge on the subject.

Good advise above ^^ on the caber dosage. It's also a compound that needs to be given proper respect.

Good luck on getting it all sorted out.

[Randy_Mar]

You really should. Especially on E2, you need to take the speculation out of the equation.

I'd personally be worried about your proposed Letro protocol crashing your E2. I believe it's effective rate on inhibiting aromatase activity is at/around 98%, whereas a compound like Anastrozole is closer to 80%. Yeah, you don't want your E2 jumping up, but don't crash yourself either, as a healthy level of estradiol is needed for men just the same. Here's a sticky about E2 management in our HRT forum http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ou-should-know . Well worth reading just to get some more knowledge on the subject.

Good advise above ^^ on the caber dosage. It's also a compound that needs to be given proper respect.

Good luck on getting it all sorted out.

I tried to knock out some former gyno with the "C-Bino protocal", and took Letro for nearly 6-months. (at a dosage of 2.5mg ed)

Never had any side effects, and it didn't effect my sex drive. But I'm sure it messed me up on some level....just not sure how!

[Randy_Mar]

Let me also ask this... If I already feel like I have a small amount of pre-existing gyno, will things get worse even if I take the precautions with the Arimidex and Caber?

I can handle the way things are now, i just don't want anything getting worse.

[Vettester]

I tried to knock out some former gyno with the "C-Bino protocal", and took Letro for nearly 6-months. (at a dosage of 2.5mg ed)

Never had any side effects, and it didn't effect my sex drive. But I'm sure it messed me up on some level....just not sure how!

Holy shiat Batman!! 2.5mg of Letro, ed for 6 months? You're still alive to talk about it?

Randy, I'm more on the HRT side of things here, so I'm not going to say your cycle is good, bad or indifferent. However, health is health, and whether you were going to run small or massive cycle, or even if someone going on HRT tells me that they had ran Letro like that, I can only stress that you get in and run labs FIRST before taking any additional steps. If you read that E2 sticky, you can see that there's a myriad of detriments associated with having E2 too low. In your case, I think it's vital that you get the gamut on labs, including your lipids, CBC's w/diff, metabolic, thyroid (FT3, RT3, FT4, antibodies, TSH), ferritin, iron TBC, E2, total/free/bio test, prolactin, & all the other essential hormone panels.

Maybe everything is in order, then you can approach your cycle with confidence! However, if something is messed up, best to get a handle on it now before it could get even more complicated.

With the gyno, you will just have to keep a close eye on it with managing your E2 and prolactin levels properly. When you came off the Letro, did you experience any estro rebound? Did you include Nolva in your PCT, or to help mitigate the rebound effects?

[kelkel]

Great advice above op. Take a look at the following links regarding gyno...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-Gyno-Reversal

http://www.andractimgel.com/gynecomastia/

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/15.full

Regarding Caber's half life, it's mid 60hrs so as Atomini stated, twice a week is usually fine. You may do just fine on .25 x 2 per week and then titrate up if needed.

[Randy_Mar]

Holy shiat Batman!! 2.5mg of Letro, ed for 6 months? You're still alive to talk about it?

Randy, I'm more on the HRT side of things here, so I'm not going to say your cycle is good, bad or indifferent. However, health is health, and whether you were going to run small or massive cycle, or even if someone going on HRT tells me that they had ran Letro like that, I can only stress that you get in and run labs FIRST before taking any additional steps. If you read that E2 sticky, you can see that there's a myriad of detriments associated with having E2 too low. In your case, I think it's vital that you get the gamut on labs, including your lipids, CBC's w/diff, metabolic, thyroid (FT3, RT3, FT4, antibodies, TSH), ferritin, iron TBC, E2, total/free/bio test, prolactin, & all the other essential hormone panels.

Maybe everything is in order, then you can approach your cycle with confidence! However, if something is messed up, best to get a handle on it now before it could get even more complicated.

With the gyno, you will just have to keep a close eye on it with managing your E2 and prolactin levels properly. When you came off the Letro, did you experience any estro rebound? Did you include Nolva in your PCT, or to help mitigate the rebound effects?

Well finally I figured my gyno wasn't getting any better or worse, so I came off the letro with no estro rebound. But I took nolvo for a couple weeks, after the letro.

[kelkel]

Oh your E rebounded just the Nolva handled it by preventing you from feeling any nip effects.

[Randy_Mar]

Oh your E rebounded just the Nolva handled it by preventing you from feeling any nip effects.

Was I supposed to take something else? I remember reading C-Bino's gyno post and it said to start nolva after letro.

[jasc]

Are you sure your letro was legit? At that dose it should have wreaked havoc on your well-being n sex drive. Seeing that you felt fine and it didn't affect your libido makes me question how good it really was.

[Randy_Mar]

Are you sure your letro was legit? At that dose it should have wreaked havoc on your well-being n sex drive. Seeing that you felt fine and it didn't affect your libido makes me question how good it really was.

It was the letro from RUI / Ar-r.

I mean don't get me wrong, my sex drive wasn't what it was normally, but i had no real problems in that area! I still had a sex-drive.

[jasc]

It was the letro from RUI / Ar-r.

I mean don't get me wrong, my sex drive wasn't what it was normally, but i had no problems "completing the task!"

Should have been a quality product then. That's crazy man.. I've crashed mine before on 1/10th of that dose using the same product n felt like total shit.

[Randy_Mar]

Should have been a quality product then. That's crazy man.. I've crashed mine before on 1/10th of that dose using the same product n felt like total shit.

Yea, i've heard how "potent" that stuff is. Not sure how I was able to tolerate so much.

[Randy_Mar]

Back to my proposed cycle, I had one last question!
Do I start the dex and prami before I start my cycle? And if so, how far in advance?
(Just curious since it's enanthate i will running)

**Dex .25mg/day
**Prami .5mg twice/wk
**Letro on hand (in case, because I'm gyno prone)
**UDCA 500mg/day when I start Halo
Week 1 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg
Week 2 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg
Week 3 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg
Week 4 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg
Week 5 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg
Week 6 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg
Week 7 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg Halo/40mg ed
Week 8 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg Halo/40mg ed
Week 9 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg Halo/40mg ed
Week 10 Test-E/200mg Tren-E/400mg Halo/40mg ed
**********Tournament************
Week 11 Test-E/200mg
Week 12 Test-E/200mg
Week 13 Clomi/100mg Nolv/40mg
Week 14 Clomi/50mg Nolv/40mg
Week 15 Clomi/50mg Nolv/20mg
Week 16 Clomi/50mg Nolv/20mg