Arimidex e2 supression?

[tdoe11]

So I'm on cycle. I am taking 750 test/450 deca. I am also taking .25 ED of adex. I had my blood work ran and my current e2 is almost 160. Arimidex is not a e2 suicide drug it is a e2 suppressor. So just because my e2 is that high does the the adex supress what my body is using? Would taking adex lower my e2 level on a blood test or just suppress what my body can use. Hope that makes sense. Maybe ill give aromasin a try. Thanks gents

[kelkel]

It doesn't appear as if you had a sensitive E2 assay done. Without that it's basically geared to women and trying to gauge your actual level is pretty much useless. Adex will suppress E2 and it will show as such on BW. If it was a sensitive E2 assay then your adex is bunk!

[austinite]

What adex you using?

[tdoe11]

I am using pharmaceutical adex from India. Same place everyone orders from. Possibility it's bunk I guess, who knows. As far as the blood test. It was the anti-aging test from privatemdlabs. I to thought my e2 would be lower. I was taking .25 EOD and had my e2 ran a month ago. It was almost 70. I upped the adex to .25 Ed and my e2 still went up to 158. I feel pretty good though and myBP is perfect. I am however retaining some water but its test and deca so go figure.

[MR10X]

people convert E2 at different rates,i would raise the Adex to .5mg ED and see what happens,a blood test would be good also....Thats a pretty good amount ot test you are using,your body is trying to maintain a certian test/E2 ratio so a high test level will mean a higher E2 level.The Adex dose you are using now might be effective for a lower dose of test but not what your currently using. You need to find what works for you.....

[MR10X]

Here’s an important thing: the effectiveness of competitive inhibitors decreases as the amount of the normal substrate increases. Suppose that you had equal amounts of inhibitor and normal substrate in the blood, and they bound to the enzyme equally well. Then the inhibitor would at any moment be taking up half the sites that the normal substrate otherwise would, so it would reduce conversion rate by 50%. But if the amount of substrate is increased 10 times while the amount of inhibitor remains the same, then the inhibitor would be outcompeted by the more numerous substrate molecules. It would therefore be rather ineffective.

For example, with more testosterone molecules available, and similar binding strengths, the enzyme will mostly bind testosterone. It will then mostly be working to produce estrogen. To obtain the 50% reduction we had before, then the amount of inhibitor would also have to be increased 10 times.

To be really effective, the inhibitor must either be present in higher concentration than the normal substrate, or must bind more tightly.

Arimidex is very effective but extremely expensive. 1 mg/day of this is at least as effective as 250 mg/day Cytadren. If a milligram per day cannot be afforded, use of half a milligram would allow Cytadren use to be cut in half, which may be desirable.

[MickeyKnox]

Here’s an important thing: the effectiveness of competitive inhibitors decreases as the amount of the normal substrate increases. Suppose that you had equal amounts of inhibitor and normal substrate in the blood, and they bound to the enzyme equally well. Then the inhibitor would at any moment be taking up half the sites that the normal substrate otherwise would, so it would reduce conversion rate by 50%. But if the amount of substrate is increased 10 times while the amount of inhibitor remains the same, then the inhibitor would be outcompeted by the more numerous substrate molecules. It would therefore be rather ineffective.

For example, with more testosterone molecules available, and similar binding strengths, the enzyme will mostly bind testosterone. It will then mostly be working to produce estrogen. To obtain the 50% reduction we had before, then the amount of inhibitor would also have to be increased 10 times.

To be really effective, the inhibitor must either be present in higher concentration than the normal substrate, or must bind more tightly.

Arimidex is very effective but extremely expensive. 1 mg/day of this is at least as effective as 250 mg/day Cytadren. If a milligram per day cannot be afforded, use of half a milligram would allow Cytadren use to be cut in half, which may be desirable.

I dont believe that's how it works. But i think i understand what you're saying. We just had a discussion on this IIRC, and although AI's promotes the hypothalamus to increase gonadotropin by blocking or permanently disabling estrogen receptors, this also increases aromatase when the substrate youre referring to increases. However, i dont believe that estrogen production is linear like you're suggesting, but rather increases at a steady pace. Yes you will require more AI in the event of large doses of Testosterone, but you wouldn't increase your AI based on the above mathematical equation.

[MR10X]

750mg of test a week is a lot,.25mg EOD is not nearly enough to lower his E2.The enzymes are there,it depends on how much test is available to convert. When using high test doses letro might be a better AI to use,blood test would be need to determine how much to use.
Increasing the dose is not proportional to its effectivness,i wouldnt be surprized if it took 1mg ED of Adex to get his E2 level where it should be.....

[MickeyKnox]

750mg of test a week is a lot,.25mg EOD is not nearly enough to lower his E2.The enzymes are there,it depends on how much test is available to convert. When using high test doses letro might be a better AI to use,blood test would be need to determine how much to use.
Increasing the dose is not proportional to its effectivness,i wouldnt be surprized if it took 1mg ED of Adex to get his E2 level where it should be.....

Im not disagreeing with you that he may need to increase his AI, but i AM disagreeing with you that he needs to increase it TEN TIMES. Sorry, but that's ridiculous and reckless to advise imho. No disrespect intended.

[Bio-Active]

Sorry guys but without labs to support it nobody really knows how much ai is needed. I am only adding more info here and I am on board with the fact that an AI can reduce E by 50-60% with that said everyone's amount of aromatize versus greatly. For me running 600 mg EW of test my test levels consistently come back at over 3,000 ng/dl with E sitting below 40. I don't need an AI on that dose but if I add another compound to the mix my E goes up big time. The only way to really judge the amount of AI needed is with supporting labs otherwise it is a guess.

[Bio-Active]

Im not disagreeing with you that he may need to increase his AI, but i AM disagreeing with you that he needs to increase it TEN TIMES. Sorry, but that's ridiculous and reckless to advise imho. No disrespect intended.

Sorry mick I missed this 10 times is not a good idea.

[jimmyinkedup]

More and more I think it is very much interdependent. Some run letro on cycle very effectively. If i run it on cycle even at a low dose im screwed- my e crashes. Jim is right in my opinion- blood work is really the only true reflection of what an individual does or does not need. Hell I know a guy that runs letro at .6 eod on a 600mg/week test cycle to keep his e2 within reference.

[MickeyKnox]

Blood work is always key.

My two points (opinions) are clear. Estrogen production is not linear. And the 10x mathematical equation is ridiculous.

[tdoe11]

Thanks for the responses everyone. You dudes are great.

I did start this cycle at .25 EOD and my blood tests had a little high e2. Then I went to .25 ED and had my blood ran again. My e2 went from 65-158 even with a double dose of arimidex. Now I'm about 7 weeks into my cycle. I feel good, BP is perfect and I'm not bloating to much (I am a little but I'm on test/deca). I plan on running this cycle 10 weeks. You guys think I should go to .50ED of arimidex or leave things the way they are?

[MickeyKnox]

Thanks for the responses everyone. You dudes are great.

I did start this cycle at .25 EOD and my blood tests had a little high e2. Then I went to .25 ED and had my blood ran again. My e2 went from 65-158 even with a double dose of arimidex. Now I'm about 7 weeks into my cycle. I feel good, BP is perfect and I'm not bloating to much (I am a little but I'm on test/deca). I plan on running this cycle 10 weeks. You guys think I should go to .50ED of arimidex or leave things the way they are?

I dont think anyone feels like sifting through your threads to determine when exactly you began this cycle, and when exactly you drew you first bloods, and when exactly you increased you AI, and when exactly you drew second set of bloods. All we know for sure is that youre 7wks into your cycle that is 750 Test/450 Deca, and you increased your AI at some point because of reported unusually high E2 levels that have yet to be produced. Id like to know what these values are.

You see how important specific information is when asking for something that at first appears like a no brainer, only to discover how somewhat frustrating this can be for someone who is interested in helping you, but is unable because of a lack of information? Fill in the blanks brother, and perhaps we can narrow down your options.

Im VERY interested in knowing why your Estrogen rose after increasing your AI. Im sure the answers lies in the missing "when" information.

[tdoe11]

I dont think anyone feels like sifting through your threads to determine when exactly you began this cycle, and when exactly you drew you first bloods, and when exactly you increased you AI, and when exactly you drew second set of bloods. All we know for sure is that youre 7wks into your cycle that is 750 Test/450 Deca, and you increased your AI at some point because of reported unusually high E2 levels that have yet to be produced. Id like to know what these values are.

You see how important specific information is when asking for something that at first appears like a no brainer, only to discover how somewhat frustrating this can be for someone who is interested in helping you, but is unable because of a lack of information? Fill in the blanks brother, and perhaps we can narrow down your options.

Im VERY interested in knowing why your Estrogen rose after increasing your AI. Im sure the answers lies in the missing "when" information.

Ok to be more precise I started 7 weeks ago. From day one I was taking .25 EOD adex. About 3 weeks in I got my bloods ran. My e2 was 68. I doubled my dose of adex and went to .25 ED. I waited another 3 weeks and had bloods ran again. My e2 was/is 158. So my dilemma now is to either again double my ai dose and go to .5 ED or switch to aromasin. Seems weird I would need so much adex for 750test/450deca. But that's where I am at. I ordered my ai from India. It's a reputable source many use. I feel the adex is working just not getting me to my sweet spot. Any opinions are appreciate and thank you

[emp]

wouldnt half life be of issue here? 3 weeks in on testE and deca, probably wouldnt have spiked ur test lvls too high yet? which means when three more weeks have passed, the test lvls have raised and the conversion into estrogen has really kicked in, therefore leaving u with high estrogen levels on the bloodtest.

im not sure of this, so dont take my word for it, but ive always thought thats how it works. theres a reason why it takes time on testE to get results and why it takes time before sides appear.

my one cent?

[MR10X]

Theres a reason the Adex pills come as a 1mg pill.............................................T he blood test show your not taking enough to lower your E2. 750mg of test is a lot of test,i dont see why you think your E2 level wouldnt be that high. week 1 test 750mg,week 2 750mg + 375 from previous dose = 1125mg per week?????

[tdoe11]

Theres a reason the Adex pills come as a 1mg pill.............................................T he blood test show your not taking enough to lower your E2. 750mg of test is a lot of test,i dont see why you think your E2 level wouldnt be that high. week 1 test 750mg,week 2 750mg + 325 from previous dose = 1075mg per week?????

That's not exactly how your body absorbs test. I think after a few weeks at 750 I would be closer to 675 a week absorption. You must be right about not taking enough adex though. Thank you for your input

[emp]

That's not exactly how your body absorbs test. I think after a few weeks at 750 I would be closer to 675 a week absorption. You must be right about not taking enough adex though. Thank you for your input

ive always heard and read that the lvls stack up....not every week, but very dependant on half life and injection frequency, till it stabalizes on a level, higher than ur initial dose at least....kinda like MR10X explained...im sure someone in this forum can explain it in full

[tdoe11]

ive always heard and read that the lvls stack up....not every week, but very dependant on half life and injection frequency, till it stabalizes on a level, higher than ur initial dose at least....kinda like MR10X explained...im sure someone in this forum can explain it in full

It is very likely you two are right. I have literally read over and over stickies and threads on front loading and half life availability. I'm about as sharp as a spoon though. So chances are I am misunderstanding

[MickeyKnox]

Ok to be more precise I started 7 weeks ago. From day one I was taking .25 EOD adex. About 3 weeks in I got my bloods ran. My e2 was 68. I doubled my dose of adex and went to .25 ED. I waited another 3 weeks and had bloods ran again. My e2 was/is 158. So my dilemma now is to either again double my ai dose and go to .5 ED or switch to aromasin. Seems weird I would need so much adex for 750test/450deca. But that's where I am at. I ordered my ai from India. It's a reputable source many use. I feel the adex is working just not getting me to my sweet spot. Any opinions are appreciate and thank you

Two issues.

When you first drew bloods at 3 wks your blood serum levels were still on the rise, simply because of the long esters in the chosen compounds.

So, at this stage, either your Adex is under dosed, or bunk. OR, you're E2 sensitive like me and require a larger than average dose of AI.

I would increase my AI (Adex) to .5mg/day and continue to monitor for another wk. I would have bloods again @ wk 6 to confirm any suspicions. In the meantime, do you have an alternate AI, just in case? If not, i would immediately make plans for obtaining a backup AI form a reputable source like AR-R.com.

[tdoe11]

Two issues.

When you first drew bloods at 3 wks your blood serum levels were still on the rise, simply because of the long esters in the chosen compounds.

So, at this stage, either your Adex is under dosed, or bunk. OR, you're E2 sensitive like me and require a larger than average dose of AI.

I would increase my AI (Adex) to .5mg/day and continue to monitor for another wk. I would have bloods again @ wk 6 to confirm any suspicions. In the meantime, do you have an alternate AI, just in case? If not, i would immediately make plans for obtaining a backup AI form a reputable source like AR-R.com.

Thanks dude. That's exactly what I was thinking to. Ill order up some aromasin and double the adex now. After a week ill get my e2 levels checked. Ill keep you all posted