You'll want to read this!

[TheBossZanTheMan]

the day I take steriods I will defy follow this program
thanks

[tdoe11]

Keeping doses reasonable and not overdoing multiple compounds what is the longest any of you have stayed on this program with only 2 week or months 'breaks'?

[Ronnie Rowland]

does prami help with the aggressive mental sides tren can produce in certain people?

I don't think so because it lower prolactin not progesterone or androcenicity fron tren. That said, prami might work in some cases because everyone's body chemistry reacts different to various drugs. For example, I know of a guy who makes his best gains on test and Anavar while others can't tell much difference if they add anavar to test.

[btrizzyb]

Hey Ronnie, I know you have been very busy, just wanted to make sure that in catching up with threads that you didnt miss my post #5238. Trying to make sure I am using your program exactly the way you intended it to be used.

[Quester]

Brilliant!
This is great stuff thanks

[akn]

Sir ron great thread have learnt alot just in few days but still alot of reading to be
done

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ron, I going to give this IGF thing a go. I'm currently running 2800 mg Test E/700 NPP/900 Masteron E/100 mg Anadrol/ 50 mg Proviron

I'm going to run all three of these together and try to put on some size before my long cut. My question in what order would this be most beneficial? My current plan is this. I workout from 7:00 pm to 8:30 5 nights a week. What I've been doing is immediately post workout (15 min) I shoot 12 i.u.'s of Novolog followed by 50 g Dextrose, 10 g creatine, 10 g glutamine. 15 minutes later I take 75 g whey protein in water. 45 minutes after that I eat 50-60 g protein/carb meal. This brings me to about 10:00 pm. I go to bed at about10:30/11:00. I do 7 i.u.'s of HGH at 2:00 am. I figure on spot injecting the IFG LR3 after I finish eating. On non workout days I'd be doing the IGF right away in the morning. When would be the best time to inject the MGF? Before the insulin or after. Any variations would be great.

I would inject the MGF pre-workout!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Great. Thanks for the feedback. Not sure I want to make that commitment to stay on year round just yet. So in the 20 week cycle you recommend should I do the reload/deload twice then pct? Or is sling shot more for someone who stays on for much longer periods?

Do 20 week Slingshot cycle then pct.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ron,
Would like to have your thoughts on my cycles.

I am 34 years old, 5'9", 210 lbs and about 15% bf. I intend to be on AAS as long as I feel good, hopefully for the rest of my life, and I will most likely compete in about a year or two.

I am currently on the first week of my 4th straight reload.
My first three reloads looked like this:

1. Test C, 200 mg e3d (475/w).
Dbol, 30 mg ed (210/w).

2. Test C, 250 mg e3d (590/w).
Dbol, 40 mg ed (280/w).

3. Test C, 300 mg e3d (715/w).
Dbol, 50 mg ed (350/w).

I know Dbol three reloads in a row is not recomended, but I haven't had any sides at all and have felt really great. But for my future cycles I will probably go with Dbol every other reload or so.

I have made some impressive gains in both strength and size during theese reloads and I decided from the start to go really slow with increasing the dose to avoid injuries. I'm planning on keep adding 50 mg of test per shot every reload, which adds about 115 mg/w every reload.
Do you think that's a good plan?

My current reload is a 12 week cutting cycle and looks like this (feel free to comment and adjust if necessary):

W 1-12 Test C, 350 mg e3d (815/w).
W 1-12 T3, 25 mcg ed.
W 3-12 Mast E*, 125 mg e3d (300/w).
W 3-12 Deca*, 100 mg ew for joints.
W 5-12 Winstrol, 40 mg ed.
W 5-12 Clen, up dose every week, 40/60/80/100/120/120/120/120 mcg ed.
* Waiting for Mast and Deca to be delivered.

After this cycle I will cruise for about 6 weeks at 200 mg Test C ew.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this :-)

Increasing test by approximately 100 mgs every reload is fine until you hit the point of diminishing returns.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Attachment 139493Attachment 139494Ron regarding diet,

Im in my week 4 of Palumbos Keto diet, this always seems to work well for me and keeps the water off giving me that dryer look. Im only taking in 1800 cals a day now and weight is still staying steady but this is a good thing as I seem to be recomping and not plateauing. Im on test prop 100mg EOD and Var at 100mg a day.. These 2 are keeping my muscle stay put which is great. I also just added tren today which I plan to keep in for 6-8 weeks then im taking 8 weeks off at 200mg cyp a week and giving my body a break. Oh and as you know im taking 4iu Jins GH with 100mcg t4 and 25mcg t3.

My question is , Sunday night I have my big cheat, example this sunday, 2 pieces of pizza, 2 hot dogs, 1 burger at a pool party with cookie cake. Then I got home and ate more cookies and had a big bowl of low fat ice cream. The 2 cheats before I averaged around 2lb gain after a cheat which is nothing, it was always gone the next day. This cheat I actually lost a lb lol, I love when that happens!!

I re read your version of Keto and saw that adding another carb day could be beneficial and not stop weight loss. So I will keep my Sunday night cheat with carbs fats, I normally start carbing up around 5pm till I go to bed around 9. My thought was to add a WED night clean carb up, basically I would have the normal first 3 meals of pro fat... Then the last 3 meals I would shift to Protein carbs. On this day would I take my calories to maintenance say around 2500 from the 1800 on low days then on sunday I normally get 3k to 4k.

Here are 2 pics of me at my current, the one in the beach shorts I took this sunday at the pool, the other I was super pumped at the gym,
I still want to lose more fat in my abs , mainly middle and lower, its like I can grab skin fat etc.. The lighting was great in both those pics but you cant always see my abs in direct sunlight.
I want my ABs bone dry all day..


Oh PS. I see you like 2 carb days in a row.. So if you prefer that over my method how would I go about that? Standard Sunday being last 1-3 meals cheat!! Then Monday is it a all day refeed at maintenance or keto first 3 meals then refeed at night?

You look amazing! I do in fact recommend 2 carb meals for those who feel they have to have carbs but that's not my first recommendation. My first recommendation is to skip the once a week carb load on the weekend and fat load instead. I have found that going out of ketosis makes one feel miserable and it's fats, not carbs your body craves when in ketosis. I would stop carbs ups and just fat load on Saturdays!

[Crazy Chris]

Increasing test by approximately 100 mgs every reload is fine until you hit the point of diminishing returns.

Thanks Ronnie!
Then I'll continue with that protocoll as long as gains are steady.
I feel I want to make the best gains I can with the lowest amount of steroids for as long as possible, rather than increasing doses to fast so I loose my chances of making gains with a lower dose.
Is this the right approach?

[Dadstrength]

Could you please answer post #5196 when you have time.

[LookinToGrow]

I'm a little confused about one thing. I'm about to finish my second reload and going to do a deload after. Then I'm taking a break from AAS. Do I do a low dose of test during this second deload and then do PCT? It looks like I'm supposed to do PCT immediately after this reload and no test during this deload, but after reading this through this thread I've found some conflicting language. Just trying to clarify. Thanks in advance.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ok so pct will be:
Weeks 21-24
HCG 2500 EOD for 2 weeks
Nolva 20mgs for 4 weeks
Correct?
One more thing. I'm planning on riding out my 3rd reload natural then following it with another 20 week blast. Question is would I revert bAck to 500mgs a week for 1st reload then bump to 750 for the second reload? Or since it'll be my 2nd 20 week blast should I start with 750 mgs then bump up to 1g a week? Btw I'm running test e cycles.
And how would I know when to start the reloads in the future at higher dosages?
Many thanks again for your time and help.

You can run nolvadex for 4 weeks but it's not mandatory. I would run hcg for 3 weeks not 2 unless you have been running hcg all along.

I would go 750 then 1000 this time around if you want to make maximum progress.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Thanks Ronnie, sooo,,, do you think if a 45 y/o 183lb man, around 18% body fat or less, I can see top three, six pack, but not that fourth, followed that exact post except only did one 10ml of test enen and one 10ml of nand decon followed by clomi citrate 10 weeks of what your post states, as long as eating as much as I can of the right foods, do you think I will keep any muscle lets say a year later steady lifting and eating, I don't seem to grow?

I don't think that cycle will do the job. Double the dosages and run a 20 week cycle then you can maintain some size.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ronnie,

I am planning to do load/reload 2 phases with Test E, Deca, Masteron and Dianabol but now i just want to ask about Dianabol..

You suggested to me before to do 30mg for 8 weeks (phase 1) then 50mg for another 8 weeks (phase 2)

But i found that i have 1000 pills @5mg

So what do you suggest to do now?

Either
6 weeks @25mg and nothing in phase 2
Or
5 weeks @30mg and nothing in phase 2
Or
3 weeks @25mg (phase 1) then another 3 weeks @25mg (phase 2)


Thanks

Run 25 mgs for last 3 weeks of each reload. This is called a backload and I feel it's more effective than a front load.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hi Ronnie, Great post thanks, I think I read my answer but I have to ask you, Will I keep anything if I do One cycle of deca/test.I am 45y/o and work out I guess too much which I will Change after reading your post but want to keep about 20lbs of muscle, am I waisting my time cause I loose it all after I quit taking anything?

You won't gain 20 lbs of muscle with one cycle because much of it will be water weight and even fat if you bulk. And no one keeps 20 lbs post cycle unless they are using large dosages of GH.

[pawn master]

Hi Ronnie when you get a chance can you look at #5234.

Also in addition to #5234 if I was to run 500iu per week of hcg during the cycle instead of 2500iu eod at the end what would be the difference?

Thanks.

[AresGod]

Great Information. Thanks!

[Dadstrength]

Thanks for the help Ronnie. So far the 20 week cycle is going great. Just test e 500mgs for first reload then 250 for deload then 750 for second reload. (im on week 14) But combined with the diet, an your training guidelines I'm making great progress. I was wondering how you feel on the length of recovery though. I read on this website people say the longer the cycle the longer the recovery. Even for simple test e cycles. I'm curious what's your take on that? Would a longer pct ( longer than 4 weeks) be better? Or instead of finish the 3rd reload natural then jumping back on a cycle for the 4th reload should i give the body more time?

Thanks again for your help.

[Ronnie Rowland]

This is a great post. After I started reading it I realized it was written back in 2009 though, is the basic concept behind your first post still the best, or have new ideas and methods come out? I am very new to steroids, I was told thattest enth is the best for what I am trying to acomplish. I am 5'9" 177 lbs currently 12.3% body fat. I would like to trim the fat on my gut for my abs to show (they feel great, but are under a thin layer of fat) and get big. I take 1 mL every 4 days, and am 17 days into my first cycle.

Basicly my questions are:

Is basing my workout off of the notes I took from the Original Post in this thread still the best plan?

I saw the 6-12 sets per week / 3-6 sets on Deload post, but didnt see anywhere exactly how many reps I should be shooting for in each set?

I noticed in your chest example, it included incline and decline bench, but not flat bench. Have I been wasting my time in the past doing flat bench?

Is a 4 day schedule of 1).back/bi's 2).chest/tri's 3).shoulders 4).legs a good routine? Does this mean that on days 3 and 4 I am only doing 6-12 sets total in my workout and then leaving?

I have been doing Abs every day of my 4 day cycle, is this good or should they only be worked once a week also?

As far as AI/SERM/HCG go, with only 2 weeks off between 8 week cycles how would I work that in for PCT?

Sorry for so many questions, just trying to learn from the best :-)

I am a little over worked right now with work and my book. I apologize to everyone. Nothing has changed over the past 4 years. And no you have not been wasting your time doing flat bench presses given its working
your Chest more than your front delts and triceps. Do triceps after back and bicep after chest. The rest looks good. 8-15 reps per set is best. Abs done once or twice a week is fine. Once a week is plenty IMO. Run 500 ius of hcg entire time or do full pct after entire cycle at higher dosages.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ronnie, I read your not a big fan of AI's unless gyno issues arise but Dnt most people feel horrible, lethargic etc with highish estrogen levels? Was wondering your thoughts on this. Thanks for all your info mate, it's outstanding

Yes some people do feel horrible due to high estrogen levels and in those cases it's best to use less test and stack with a non aromatizing steroid IMO. Second best case scenario is to add an anties.

[btrizzyb]

I am a little over worked right now with work and my book. I apologize to everyone. Nothing has changed over the past 4 years. And no you have not been wasting your time doing flat bench presses given its working
your Chest more than your front delts and triceps. Do triceps after back and bicep after chest. The rest looks good. 8-15 reps per set is best. Abs done once or twice a week is fine. Once a week is plenty IMO. Run 500 ius of hcg entire time or do full pct after entire cycle at higher dosages.

Thanks so much for your reply! Ill be switching my workouts around to combine checst and bi's into 1 day, and back and tri's into another like you suggested. My only other questions would be, that being this is my first cycle, you still believe that 8 week on, 2 weeks off is the right cycle for me? I am taking Test Enth and still trying to figure out exactly what I should be taking for PCT. Were you saying that if I take HCG threwout my cycle that I can skip taking anything else for PCT? Also, if I chose to do a full PCT instead of HCG the entire cycle, will I be able to fit a full PCT into only 2 weeks, and exactly what would you recommend taking for it?

EDIT: Ronnie id also like to add that I realize that you are a trainer, meaning you usually make money helping guys get big. This being said if you contact me via PM, I have no problem giving you a little cash for your time helping me out. I appreciate your help and realize you are busy.

[btrizzyb]

Double post, mod please delete

[The Titan99]

Hey Ron.
I was wondering, does Tren work as well as test in combination with GH? I'm cutting and using 7 i.u.'s of GH ed. I'm using Test E 400 mg/Tren A 1050 mg/Mast P 700 mg/NPP 350 mg - joints/Proviron 50 mg ed. This is the first time I've ever run Test so low and was wondering if I should run it higher. It's been 10 days and I like the way it looks and feels already.

[The Titan99]

How does Ronnie Coleman get by using AAS if he's a policeman?

[ppwc1985]

How does Ronnie Coleman get by using AAS if he's a policeman?

Idk but I personally know 5 state troopers in CT who use them. I think alot po use. They have tough job.

[The Titan99]

Yea, last time I was back I saw some cops who definitely were taking AAS. I just wonder how you can get by with it if your Ronnie's size.

[slimshady01]

Yea, last time I was back I saw some cops who definitely were taking AAS. I just wonder how you can get by with it if your Ronnie's size.

They just ignore ...

Can you imagine a sport where you had to be on high doses of heroin to compete like AAS... That sport would be shut down in seconds... Yet if u get busted with AAS they treat it just like heroin

[lla23]

Hi Ronnie and guys out there,

I'm planning to do the 20 weeks Slingshot cycle with just "Test Enathate".. I'm having problems getting HCG as it's quite expensive and costly to do it every other day for 3 weeks.

I would like to modify some of the changes on e PCT and even the mgs for the Test as I gather the cost to start this cycle is way too much for me.

Can I do 3 weeks of PCT with HCG, like 500ius for twice a
week? Or is there any other alternatives or cheaper way of PCT that I can do? Like using novaldex or clomid?

Could u guys advice me on that pls?

Phase 1-
500 mgs of test weekly, 1st 8 weeks reload (250 mgs injection twice a week)

Deload -
250 mgs of test weekly, 2 weeks (125 mgs injection twice a week)

Phase 2 -
750 mgs of test weekly, 2nd 8 weeks reload (375 mgs injection twice a week)

Deload -
250 mgs of test weekly, 2 weeks (125 mgs injection twice a week)

PCT -
3 weeks of HCG 2500 iu, eod
(2500 iu eod, Injection Every other day a week for 3 weeks)

[The Titan99]

Hi Ronnie and guys out there,

I'm planning to do the 20 weeks Slingshot cycle with just "Test Enathate".. I'm having problems getting HCG as it's quite expensive and costly to do it every other day for 3 weeks.

I would like to modify some of the changes on e PCT and even the mgs for the Test as I gather the cost to start this cycle is way too much for me.

Can I do 3 weeks of PCT with HCG, like 500ius for twice a
week? Or is there any other alternatives or cheaper way of PCT that I can do? Like using novaldex or clomid?

Could u guys advice me on that pls?

Phase 1-
500 mgs of test weekly, 1st 8 weeks reload (250 mgs injection twice a week)

Deload -
250 mgs of test weekly, 2 weeks (125 mgs injection twice a week)

Phase 2 -
750 mgs of test weekly, 2nd 8 weeks reload (375 mgs injection twice a week)

Deload -
250 mgs of test weekly, 2 weeks (125 mgs injection twice a week)

PCT -
3 weeks of HCG 2500 iu, eod
(2500 iu eod, Injection Every other day a week for 3 weeks)

You could drop that 2nd deload phase as far as the AAS are concerned if your going to PCT afterwards. That would only apply if you were going back into another reload with the Test.

For the same reason I like to run the HCG at 250 i.u.'s twice a week right from the beginning of the cycle all the way up to the day before PCT. That will only take about 10,000 i.u.'s (2 bottles) instead of 25,000 i.u.'s (5 bottles).

Ron might tell you different on the HCG but he's super busy and might not be able to get back to you as quick as you like.

BTW, I've been using this training style for more than 3 years and it's by far the best training program out there.

[lla23]

Thanks Titan99 for advising me bro.. So do u mean my cycle will be like this?

How about my PCT, what should I use? Novaldex or clomid?

I will be starting 2nd cycle with Test E again when I'm done with this protocol.

Phase 1-
500 mgs of test weekly,
1st 8 weeks reload (250 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)


Deload -
250 mgs of test weekly,
2 weeks (125 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)

Phase 2 -
750 mgs of test weekly
2nd 8 weeks reload (375 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)


PCT -
Novaldex or clomid?

You could drop that 2nd deload phase as far as the AAS are concerned if your going to PCT afterwards. That would only apply if you were going back into another reload with the Test.

For the same reason I like to run the HCG at 250 i.u.'s twice a week right from the beginning of the cycle all the way up to the day before PCT. That will only take about 10,000 i.u.'s (2 bottles) instead of 25,000 i.u.'s (5 bottles).

Ron might tell you different on the HCG but he's super busy and might not be able to get back to you as quick as you like.

BTW, I've been using this training style for more than 3 years and it's by far the best training program out there.

[The Titan99]

Thanks Titan99 for advising me bro.. So do u mean my cycle will be like this?

How about my PCT, what should I use? Novaldex or clomid?

I will be starting 2nd cycle with Test E again when I'm done with this protocol.

Phase 1-
500 mgs of test weekly,
1st 8 weeks reload (250 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)


Deload -
250 mgs of test weekly,
2 weeks (125 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)

Phase 2 -
750 mgs of test weekly
2nd 8 weeks reload (375 mgs injection twice a week)
HCG (250 i.u.'s injection twice a week)


PCT -
Novaldex or clomid?

Yea, that's how I would do it and how I think Ron would tell you to do it also except you run the HCG for the 2 weeks after your last shot of test, then on day 15 (following last shot) start PCT. I don't like clomid and Ron doesn't think it's necessary. Torem is what I would use with the Nolvadex for 3 weeks on both, but I'm on HRT so I don't do PCT personally. Ron's a lot more knowledgeable on that front. On all fronts really, but there for sure. One thing I would do differently though and hopefully Ron corrects me if I'm wrong, but after phase 2 of the blast I would carry on through with the same diet as I was on cycle all the way through PCT to avoid muscle loss, while at the same time deloading and reloading as usual with your training.
BTW, a good dose of Vitamin C daily throughout PCT should help control cortisol levels.

[lla23]

What mgs would u suggest for novaldex for PCT? What type of diet will u be doing? Low Fat, high carbs? Can u give me an example?

Yea, that's how I would do it and how I think Ron would tell you to do it also except you run the HCG for the 2 weeks after your last shot of test, then on day 15 (following last shot) start PCT. I don't like clomid and Ron doesn't think it's necessary. Torem is what I would use with the Nolvadex for 3 weeks on both, but I'm on HRT so I don't do PCT personally. Ron's a lot more knowledgeable on that front. On all fronts really, but there for sure. One thing I would do differently though and hopefully Ron corrects me if I'm wrong, but after phase 2 of the blast I would carry on through with the same diet as I was on cycle all the way through PCT to avoid muscle loss, while at the same time deloading and reloading as usual with your training.
BTW, a good dose of Vitamin C daily throughout PCT should help control cortisol levels.

[The Titan99]

40 mg ed for the first week, then 20 ed for the next 2 weeks. What type of diet will I be doing? That doesn't really matter unless your 48 years old, 6'2" 265 lbs and 11% BF. Sounds like you need to head to the diet section and get something put together. Then post it and some really smart guy's will help you straighten it out. Remember, using AAS without having your diet in place is like putting rocket fuel in your Festiva. You'll tear up your vehicle as well as lose the race!! Here are some hints for you to start with. Google BMR and then TDEE. Also read the stickie in the diet section called "So you want to learn how to Diet?"

[lla23]

Usually my will start my first 3 meals with protein & carbs,towards the later part of day, other 3 meals will be protein & fat... I'm just 32 yrs old bro.. Haha, u look way better shape than me and average guys out there!!!

40 mg ed for the first week, then 20 ed for the next 2 weeks. What type of diet will I be doing? That doesn't really matter unless your 48 years old, 6'2" 265 lbs and 11% BF. Sounds like you need to head to the diet section and get something put together. Then post it and some really smart guy's will help you straighten it out. Remember, using AAS without having your diet in place is like putting rocket fuel in your Festiva. You'll tear up your vehicle as well as lose the race!! Here are some hints for you to start with. Google BMR and then TDEE. Also read the stickie in the diet section called "So you want to learn how to Diet?"

[The Titan99]

I do the same with the addition of 1 cup of oatmeal PWO.

[lla23]

I see... I probably can consider that.. Do u mix anything in ur oatmeal?

I do the same with the addition of 1 cup of oatmeal PWO.

[lla23]

Hey guys, i read this thread that Ronnie mention about "HMG out performs HCG, and seems little more effective than HCG" in PCT. so if i can't find HCG, can i replace it with HMG?

what will be the dosage for HMG for during the cycle? or even PCT?

[Ronnie Rowland]

if your taking a hrt dose of test, lets say 250 a week of prop , how much does 250mg a week raise your test levels in terms of taking a t/e test ? will u be under 6-1 (u dont happen to have a link to a chart for this?) . or if it was over the ratio wot if u switched to test suspenion the last wk and dropped it a couple of days before? or if you dropped the prop a week r 2 before would your levels be ok then for the test or wud they be extra low? then looking suspicious .would your body still be ok if dropping it a few weeks out performance wise for a fight?

I have seen a chart before but I am not sure where it's at. Drop the test prop 1 week out before the fight to be on the safe side. Your performance will be fine.