Fighting with the Doctors

[jch3131]

I apologize in advance if this is long and scattered. NOTE: I have not taken any performance enhancing substance at all in years.

26yo 6'5" 235lbs 18% BF

A year ago I was having the Low T symptoms (fatigue, anxiety, ED, low libido, etc) I went to my GP and told him what was going on and what blood work I wanted. He tested only for Total Test and the basic physical but refused LH FSH estrogen and anything else important. My total T was 550 at that time and told me I was fine (I dont have the copy of the rest). Nothing changed and a few months ago I went to a Urologist and told her the same thing and she performed some tests of her own.

2/07/2014

Basic Metabolic Panel

Glucose Serum- 84mg/dl, 65-99
BUN- 13mg/dl, 6-20
Creatinine Serum- .98mg/dl, .76-1.27
eGFR- 106mL/min/1.73, >59
BUN/Creatinine Ratio- 13, 8-19
Sodium Serum- 139 mmol/L, 134-144
Potassium Serum- 4.3 mmol/L, 3.5-5.2
Chloride Serum- 100 mmol/L, 97-108
Carbon Dioxide Total- 25 mmol/L, 19-28
Calcium Serum- 9.8 mg/dL, 8.7-10.2

Lipid Panel

Cholesterol Total- 134 mg/dL, 100-199
Triglycerides- 82 mg/dL, 0-149
HDL Cholesterol- 35 mg/dL, >39
VLDL Cholesterol Cal- 16 mg/dL, 5-40
LDL Cholesterol Calc- 83 mg/dL, 0-99

Hemoglobin Alc- 5.3%, 4.8-5.6
Testosterone Serum- 1384 ng/dL, 348-1197 (AGAIN I HAVE TAKEN NOTHING)
TSH- .400 uIU/mL, .450-4.500
LH- 3.9 mIU/mL, 1.7-8.6

Even with high test levels I still had all the same symptoms. She then wanted to wait and test my levels again. During this time I started to develop Gyno. I have puffy nipples with two hard painful lumps. I have ordered Ralo but havent tried it yet. All my body fat gain is the hips, waist and chest.

2/12/2014

Testosterone Serum- 1603 ng/dL 348-1197
Prolactin- 7.1 ng/mL, 4.0-15.2

Still no change in how I felt

2/25/2014

DHEA Sulfate- 553.7 ug/dL 138.5-475.2
Testosterone Serum- 534 ng/dL 348-1197
Progesterone- 1.3 ng/mL 0.2-1.4
Estrogen Total- 168 pg/mL 40-115

No surprise here. So she told me that she was referring me to an Endo. We had a big talk and he felt around and ordered his BW. I could tell just from the talk that he had no idea what to do.

4/15/2014

Labs were taken while fasting and at 6:30am

Estrogen total- 115 pg/mL 40-115
Testosteron Total- 338 ng/dL 348-1197
Testosterone Free- 8.08 ng/dL 5.00-21.00
% Free Testosterone- 2.39% 1.50-4.20
DHEA Sulfate- 197 ug/dL 35-430
TSH 3rd Generation- 1.47 uIU/mL, .36-5.00
Free T4- 0.9 ng/dL 0.8-1.5
Fee T3- 2.9 pg/mL 2.2-4.0

Ok after the tests came back this is word for word what he said to me. "It does NOT appear to me that your problems are hormmonal. We could do a trial of low dose testosterone to see if that will help." So he prescribed me 100mg of Test Cyp every 2 weeks and NO AI. I am refusing to take it bc we all know this protocol is garbage and he knows I have high estrogen and never tested my E2 plus I have Gyno symptoms. I am not going back to this guy and have found another GP that my mom goes to and he has been helping her through her post menopause hormone problems. I'm going to talk to him and really just inform him on how up to date I am on this stuff, not saying I have alot of knowledge but know more than the Endo. I was thinking about Dr Crisler but not sure on the prices. I live in FL as well so I would have to travel. My insurance did pay for the Test Cyp I was prescribed. I guess I'm just looking for thoughts, opinions, and advice from all of you. I have a list of BW that was posted in the stickey above that I will give to the new GP on Wednesday.

[APIs]

Wow your Test levels are all over the place. Just a note, but there are some competent Docs in FL for TRT. I'm sure others will chime in for you...

[jch3131]

Wow your Test levels are all over the place. Just a note, but there are some competent Docs in FL for TRT. I'm sure others will chime in for you...

Yeah I know. I dont understand how that happened but like I said i'm not that educated. I do know that I'm frustrated.

[Times Roman]

sorry, I'm old and don't have my glasses on and didnt' read all that.

but....

when you get your blood tested, you need to consistently have it checked midpoint between your injections. This will give you an average blood serum level for testosterone.

are you doing this?

[APIs]

Well, something is going on and you need to find a viable Doc. I wouldnt start the protocol of 100 mgs e2w she suggested either, especially without an AI etc. There are a few guys here with good Docs in FL that I'm sure they'll share with you...

[jch3131]

sorry, I'm old and don't have my glasses on and didnt' read all that.

but....

when you get your blood tested, you need to consistently have it checked midpoint between your injections. This will give you an average blood serum level for testosterone.

are you doing this?

I'm not doing any injections, OTC enhancements, im not on TRT, ZERO. That BW is just my...I guess you say natural results even tho we know this isnt natural. The endo prescribed me Test Cyp and nothing for estrogen but I am refusing to take it bc the high estro has given me gyno and he claims this is a "trial run" which tells me I take it for a month then he cuts me off and I crash

[jch3131]

Does anyone think my T3 and T4 on the low side?

[Beethoven]

Jch3131 if you are in the southern part of Fla, pm me I can refer you to a good one.

[thisAngelBites]

Does anyone think my T3 and T4 on the low side?

They are slightly on the low side, even though your TSH looks good. Although the symptoms of low T and hypothyroidism can intersect somewhat, the gyno points at something other than thyroid and the wild fluctuating levels of T do as well. There may be something happening with your cortisol levels, but honestly, I think it is more important to sort out your sex hormone problem first because I am wondering if that is where it started...

You said you have not taken any performance enhancing substance in years, which I presume means you formerly took some. I'm sure you have noticed there are a lot of young guys who post here who did cycles in the past and then have problems a few years later of low T. I am wondering if something like this is what is happening, and then you are getting effects further down the line. I know you're waiting on a rec for a good TRT doc near you, and I am sure someone will be able to help.


(I just went and had a look at your old messages and saw you were cycling when you were 19-20 years old - it's not uncommon for people who take steroids at that age to end up with low testosterone at very young ages. I think the best thing to do is to find a good doc, get your TRT in place and fine tuned for a few months, then check your bloods again to see if anything else is happening, or if it's all related to your sex hormone problems from those old cycles.)

[jch3131]

They are slightly on the low side, even though your TSH looks good. Although the symptoms of low T and hypothyroidism can intersect somewhat, the gyno points at something other than thyroid and the wild fluctuating levels of T do as well. There may be something happening with your cortisol levels, but honestly, I think it is more important to sort out your sex hormone problem first because I am wondering if that is where it started...

You said you have not taken any performance enhancing substance in years, which I presume means you formerly took some. I'm sure you have noticed there are a lot of young guys who post here who did cycles in the past and then have problems a few years later of low T. I am wondering if something like this is what is happening, and then you are getting effects further down the line. I know you're waiting on a rec for a good TRT doc near you, and I am sure someone will be able to help.


(I just went and had a look at your old messages and saw you were cycling when you were 19-20 years old - it's not uncommon for people who take steroids at that age to end up with low testosterone at very young ages. I think the best thing to do is to find a good doc, get your TRT in place and fine tuned for a few months, then check your bloods again to see if anything else is happening, or if it's all related to your sex hormone problems from those old cycles.)

Yeah I was one of the dumb ones that started to early and i'm sure i'm paying for it now. A friend of mine in the medical field mentioned I should have my cortisol levels checked too. I will bring that up to the new GP on wednesday. Hopefully he will be receptive and actually order the BW that I ask for. Thanks for your input Angel.

I was curious as to how many people use Lowtestosterone.com and if their prices are reasonable. My insurance does pay for TRT treatments but that doesnt mean anything if I can't find a good doctor. If anyone out there is using this company please share your thoughts if you dont mind. either on this thread or PM me.

[thisAngelBites]

I was going to suggest the salivary cortisol profile as well, but I intentionally didn't because I think you need to get your TRT in place first. I suspect the other stuff is a result of your sex hormone profile.

Not having enough T makes it harder for you to cope with many things in life, so you might be putting a lot of pressure on your adrenals to compensate for the deficiencies elsewhere. Once you get the testosterone levels in place, and as long as you look after yourself (improve your HDL with some good quality fats, and search out Kelkel's thread on cholesterol and lipids and supplements to help, make sure you get enough sleep, and eat whole foods) you might just find the others fall into place. It would be a shame to spend time and money putting out little fires and treating symptoms but not really feeling really well altogether because you leave the primary problem until the end. Taking your history into account, along with the erratic labs, Occam's razor tells you sex hormones should be the first thing to sort out.

Can't help you with personal experience of lowtestosterone.com as I am in another country and see an endo in Europe, but I hope others will chime in, especially those who have cycled when very young who now need some support. It seems people are happy working with them, and I would think they have more experience with cases like yours than the average GP. I hope it goes well, and people here will continue to respond to your questions along the way.

Yeah I was one of the dumb ones that started to early and i'm sure i'm paying for it now. A friend of mine in the medical field mentioned I should have my cortisol levels checked too. I will bring that up to the new GP on wednesday. Hopefully he will be receptive and actually order the BW that I ask for. Thanks for your input Angel.

I was curious as to how many people use Lowtestosterone.com and if their prices are reasonable. My insurance does pay for TRT treatments but that doesnt mean anything if I can't find a good doctor. If anyone out there is using this company please share your thoughts if you dont mind. either on this thread or PM me.

[Beethoven]

Jch3131 check your in box...

[The_Crawfish]

OP, the cortisol test is done via saliva and you don't need a doc to get it for you. I just sent mine off today to zrt labs. Just pick up the kit for free at a local pharm and you pay when you send it off depending on what tests you want done. I did the diurnal cortisol along with the DHEA and it cost me $130.

[jch3131]

OP, the cortisol test is done via saliva and you don't need a doc to get it for you. I just sent mine off today to zrt labs. Just pick up the kit for free at a local pharm and you pay when you send it off depending on what tests you want done. I did the diurnal cortisol along with the DHEA and it cost me $130.

I didnt know that, thanks

[j2048b]

ok, i just have to ask:

what kind of healthy stuff where u doing when ur test levels came back so dang high? and if it was some sort of weightlifting, or strongman stuff, etc...? did u stop doing what u were doing and perhaps cause ur test to crash back down to nothing? i wonder if uve had any mri's on ur pituitary, or glands etc... to rule out anything?

ruling out any trt, IS there ANY thing that u were on, be it meds of any sort at the times of ur blood tests?

ive never seen someones test get so dang high for no reason, and then crash months later... u were in the service correct? any ptsd, or anything at the times of ur high test levels that u were overly excited, running on adrenaline?

just trying to understand WHAT u were doing durring the times of ur blood tests is alll...

with the docs trt regimen:
IF she gave u the test for u to take home?? u could easily split those shots and take 50 mlgs 2 x's per week, and order ur own ai's...

[jch3131]

ok, i just have to ask:

what kind of healthy stuff where u doing when ur test levels came back so dang high? and if it was some sort of weightlifting, or strongman stuff, etc...? did u stop doing what u were doing and perhaps cause ur test to crash back down to nothing? i wonder if uve had any mri's on ur pituitary, or glands etc... to rule out anything?

I honestly was not doing anything. Nothing over the counter from GNC, no TRT, not even a multi-vitamin. I was blown away when my first test came back so high bc I still felt like crap. As far as working out goes, I was hitting the gym but it wasnt hard at all bc I have no energy or strength anymore. The tests that came back high were drawn in the middle of the day as well. She drilled me hard about if I was putting anything in my body too. I havent had any MRIs on my pituitary, That will be something I can bring up to the new Dr on wednesday as well. I'm not up to speed on that type of thing.

ruling out any trt, IS there ANY thing that u were on, be it meds of any sort at the times of ur blood tests?

ive never seen someones test get so dang high for no reason, and then crash months later... u were in the service correct? any ptsd, or anything at the times of ur high test levels that u were overly excited, running on adrenaline?

Yeah I was diagnosed with PTSD that I talk to mental heath specialist about but I refused anti-depressants. At the time of my tests I was actually really relaxed and relieved that the doctor was trying to help me.

just trying to understand WHAT u were doing durring the times of ur blood tests is alll...

with the docs trt regimen:
IF she gave u the test for u to take home?? u could easily split those shots and take 50 mlgs 2 x's per week, and order ur own ai's...

Yeah I could but I didnt want to start treatment with a doctor that I could tell was clueless and then go to another and have different results because of the treatment. I thought that might make things harder for me. Any advice on what I should do with this prescribed treatment from anyone??

J2048B I replied in the quote. Does anyone have any advice if I should start this treatment and order my own AI or just wait? I have Ralo ordered for the small lumps under my nipples.

[j2048b]

J2048B I replied in the quote. Does anyone have any advice if I should start this treatment and order my own AI or just wait? I have Ralo ordered for the small lumps under my nipples.

Ok first, get ur blood work done in the am, preferably a day that u have not had alcohol in ur system for a few days if ur a drinker, also drink plenty of water a few days before blood work,
And the morning of... Always get the bw done around the same time in the am...

U could start the trt.... But it would be better if u can get to the root cause of the issue first... Ive never seen any one who has test levels at those highs and lows... Yes it fluctuates daily but not to that extreme...

Im no doc nor do i know a lot such as kel, and a few other outstanding vets here, im just offering suggestions...

Is there a way for u to Get ur hpta, thyroid and adrenal glands checked... If there are specific tests for each... Im not entirely sure?

Being in combat and having ptsd are things that can and most possibly will effect alot of different systems in the entire body...


Just my suggestions and questions for u AND any vet who reads them....

[Deequarius]

Good info.. I'm 18 and got some blood work done a week or so ago and came with even lower total test than this... Good info though. Thank you!