1st Cycle and HRT

[bethdoth]

I am planning to do an eight week cycle to cut and possibly put a few pounds of muscle on. I have read a lot and think I have a solid plan. But I want the experts to blow holes in my plan if it sucks. I will be 54 in July 5' 10" 201lbs.. When I was at 217 pounds about a month ago I was calipered at 17% BF. I have been on HRT for 3 years and lifting/working out for 26 years. My current lifting is 2 weeks lighter high reps, 2 weeks heavier medium reps, then 1 week heavy low reps, then repeat. I do 4 sets going to muscle failure on 2nd, 3rd and 4th set and also drop set on the 4th set. I work each muscle group atleast once a week and do HIIT 3 times a week. My current diet TDEE is 2550 calories, I am doing about 2000 calories a day, with 255 grams protein (1020 cal) 50 grams of fat (450 cal) and 133 grams of carbs (532 cal). I increased my test from 70mg E 3.5 days to 100mg every 3.5 days and increased my stane to 12.5mg twice a day. I had labs done last week and my overall test was the highest I have ever had it at 1080 and my esterdiol was at 33 (normally runs 26). My plan is to maintain my current diet, keep my test and stane the same and add Cabergoline .5mg every 3.5 days and injectable Tren acetate 50mg EOD. Pct I would cut my test and stane back to my previous HRT levers 70mg every 3.5 and stane 12.5mg daily.
Ok PLEASE go ahead and tell me I have not considered this or that so I can make good decisions here. Oh I take NAC which is supposed to help my liver.

[bethdoth]

Wow 144 views and no one has shot any holes in my plan yet. I feel it is a fairly conservative plan, maybe that is why it hasn't been blown out of the water yet?

[kelkel]

Rhoad why not just up your test further and leave the tren behind?

[bethdoth]

I did consider that. But being the egotistical, want instant results, impulsive guy that I am thought I would give it a try. Seriously though everything I read tren is the holy grail and will make you hard and lean. I have increased my test and have seen some results. I have read many of your post (non cardio!!) and respect your opinion. Why do you feel tren should not be the route and if I decided to do a test only cycle what would you recommend I increase test to? Keeping in mind I am currently at the upper range of the scale.

[kelkel]

Hi Rhoag. I just don't think it's necessary. Yes, it can help with fat burning to some extent but it's also harsh on lipids. It's just a big leap from test to tren for a first cycle. I do understand what you're proposing is a lower dose though. I just think that a normal test cycle, as described in Austins "Successful First Cycle" thread would do wonders for you. You feel good at 1080 total test level right. Well, on average a 500mg test cycle will have you between 3-4K NG/DL if it's quality test. Assuming training and nutrition are on point imagine the potential for gains over a 12 week cycle? A sticky you may find of interest is in the AAS Q & A section titled: "Atomini's all you need to know about Tren" or close to that verbiage anyway.

Totally your call rhoag and I'm more than happy to help you either way. One thing I will add is when you embark on this lose the light training weeks. No real place for them on cycle. Also, visit Marcus Diary in the Lounge and read up on HIT. Great thread to learn and keep motivated.

[bethdoth]

Thanks for your response. I ordered the tren and Caber about 4 weeks ago and it should be here soon. I am still on the fence or I wouldn't have posted here for advise. I will continue to try and learn more before jumping in. I have a friend that has been on cycle for awhile and now had liver enzyme issues. I was looking for a once a year (in the boring winter) cycle to really get cut good 10% without loosing muscle. I guess I am afraid that once I concede to my age I will be done...LOL . I have read a lot of Marcus's diary, and yes there is a ton of great info from him. I do HIIT fasted at least twice a week. 5 min warm up then 15 seconds as hard as I can go...45 second rest (repeat 10 times) then 20 minutes at a 70% RPE then 30 sec hard 30 easy (repeat 5 times) then 5 minute cool down. Two years ago when I started on test I did manage to cut down to 12% but was to small, sure would be nice to be 12% and maintain or get just a tad bigger.

[kelkel]

Don't ever give in to age. I'm there with you age wise. Adapt, yes, give in, no. If your avi is indicative of your current conditioning then I wouldn't worry about getting more cut. Just get bigger and maintain the same conditioning. Hell, you're bigger and in better condition than most guys half your age.

[bethdoth]

Thanks Kelkel... yes that is me a bit bigger and leaner now than then. But, my addictive personality I always want more. I have never been one for the easiest way and thought there wasn't a magic pill. But, I have watched a guy go from fat ass to muscles and fairly lean in 8 weeks. He hasn't been doing a proper cycle and has no idea about post cycle but, has made huge gains. Tren could be that magic pill but at what cost is my only concern. My cholesterol, BP and other labs are just fine right now. I guess since I just had labs I could easily slip a 12 week test cycle in there and my doc wouldn't catch it.

[kelkel]

Thanks Kelkel... yes that is me a bit bigger and leaner now than then. But, my addictive personality I always want more. I have never been one for the easiest way and thought there wasn't a magic pill. But, I have watched a guy go from fat ass to muscles and fairly lean in 8 weeks. He hasn't been doing a proper cycle and has no idea about post cycle but, has made huge gains. Tren could be that magic pill but at what cost is my only concern. My cholesterol, BP and other labs are just fine right now. I guess since I just had labs I could easily slip a 12 week test cycle in there and my doc wouldn't catch it.

If your appts are every six months you surely could. Track your progress. Like to see how you make out. And yes, a body builder is never satisfied. Ever.

[bethdoth]

Ok against the advice of a lot of posts on here and Kelkel, I have started my first cycle. I feel that the reason a lot of the advice not to use tren on your first cycle is because you have to have test in the mix. I have been on HRT for 3 years and have my test and E2 dialed in. I am keeping my test at HRT levels of 70mg every 3.5 days and my stane at 12.5mg twice a day. My total test has been pretty stable at 750 and my E2 at 26 -30 for over a year. I have added Cabergoline .5mg twice a week, 50mg tren Ace EOD and 50mcg of T3 daily. Day 5 and sides are very minimal a little winded at times. Pump at the gym is noticeably better. My diet is dialed in at 2200 calories total daily with 1.5 grams protein per lean muscle. I hope to cut while maintaining muscle if not put on a pound or two.
Don't yell at this old guy to much for wanting the fountain of youth, I have been doing this the natural way for over 30 years just want to try one and see. If you see something glaringly wrong with what I am doing please let me know. I chose tren ace because of it's short half life and ability to stop and hopefully recover fast. I have given this list to someone close to me so that if something should happen to me they can pass it to a doc.

[David LoPan]

KelKel knows his stuff. I would listen to what he has to say. I am going to follow this post and read what others are saying but without knowing what you have been told I would consider dropping the Tren A and stick with a Test Blast and Cruise a few times before going to Tren.

[Buster Brown]

Good luck......might be a good cycle to log if you have time.

[kelkel]

Ok against the advice of a lot of posts on here and Kelkel, I have started my first cycle. I feel that the reason a lot of the advice not to use tren on your first cycle is because you have to have test in the mix. I have been on HRT for 3 years and have my test and E2 dialed in. I am keeping my test at HRT levels of 70mg every 3.5 days and my stane at 12.5mg twice a day. My total test has been pretty stable at 750 and my E2 at 26 -30 for over a year. I have added Cabergoline .5mg twice a week, 50mg tren Ace EOD and 50mcg of T3 daily. Day 5 and sides are very minimal a little winded at times. Pump at the gym is noticeably better. My diet is dialed in at 2200 calories total daily with 1.5 grams protein per lean muscle. I hope to cut while maintaining muscle if not put on a pound or two.
Don't yell at this old guy to much for wanting the fountain of youth, I have been doing this the natural way for over 30 years just want to try one and see. If you see something glaringly wrong with what I am doing please let me know. I chose tren ace because of it's short half life and ability to stop and hopefully recover fast. I have given this list to someone close to me so that if something should happen to me they can pass it to a doc.

Hey, I didn't tell you not to cycle, just didn't think tren was prudent for your first run, that's all! Good luck with this and keep us posted please. One thing, when it comes to caber you'll be fine with .25 X 2 per week, imho. As long as you're making an effort with E2, and you are, .25 is sufficient. It goes a long way. Save the rest.

[bethdoth]

Kelkel thanks I will do that. IMHO as long as I keep my test as it has been for a long time and stable my e2 should also stay in check. So any sides would be from the tren. I just completed all labs and everything looked good, my BP was 120/74 had an EKG (life insurance physical), I feel pretty healthy. I have only done 3 injections so far and really not feeling much so far. I did my 40 min HIIT at 5AM this morning and did notice I was 1 level lower 15 vise 16 to achieve my normal 140BPM during the 20 minute 70% heart rate phase. Maybe I am missing something here? Test cycles, E2 is the major concern but we have Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control this. tren prolactin is a concern but we have caber to control this, also T3 to maintain suppressed T3 levels. I do understand that some of the sides from tren just can't be controlled (night sweats, mood swings, etc...) but from my research a lot of experienced members state that at lower dose of like 50mg EOD these sides are minimized. Now the liver enzymes issue, again from my research NAC is supposed to help with this, but labs are the only sure way to monitor your liver function. Correct me if I am wrong, but if I did one cycle every winter to cut this would minimize the risk also by doing injections vise oral reduces this risk. I know not every member here started with a test only cycle some must of had a successful test/tren first cycle? If not I sure as hell hope I am the first. Since the majority feel that using tren during a first cycle is a bad idea, why? What would be a persons first indication that things are going wrong? During my research I read over and over it was a bad idea yet no one really said why other than wait till the sides kick in. I will be honest with the forum and provide feed back as this progresses.

[hawk14dl]

I think there are a few reasons test is suggested for first cycle.
First, to know how you react to the test. Since you're on hrt, no issue there.
Second, great gains can be made on test only.
Third,tren is a rather harsh compound.

I'm also on hrt and just did my first blast injection on Monday (just test though). I'll be following your thread, I'm anxious to see the results. It may be one of my future blasts

[bethdoth]

Here is my test and E2 for the last 3 years. I did bump up my test to 200mg a week and it went up to 1080, but I reduced back to my normal 140mg a week 2 weeks before I planned this cycle. I'm trying hard to get the warm fuzzy here. I feel I have done my due diligence researching and learning. I still do not have a good doc for my HRT just my general PA that I see for everything, so it was trial and error all the way. As you can see from the spike to 52 that was a test. Everyone says that doing subq you may not need an ai so I stopped and found out the results, I need an ai even doing 140mg a week subq.

[kelkel]

You'll be fine Rhoag. You've got things squared away.

[bethdoth]

Hahah That is the warm fuzzy I was looking for thanks! Now if I just didn't have to do cardio!

[bethdoth]

Good luck......might be a good cycle to log if you have time.

I have already started logging everything from time date, what and how much, daily workout, daily food intake, and will add sides once I start feeling some.

[600@50]

Rhoag......I wouldn't stress that this could be called a tren only first cycle. You are on TRT and in essence are constantly cruising on a maintenance test dose. You raised your dose up to 200mg/week and found out how your body responded. You are starting with a conservative tren dose as well. Just monitor your sides, if any, and enjoy the gains. Don't be afraid to add calories if you're wanting to add size. Main thing is to keep the E2 in check. Keep us posted.

[bethdoth]

Thanks 660@50 I will update this as things progress. Since I just started last Friday, after a life insurance physical, no major changes positive or negative yet. It did seem like I was a bit stronger today when I first started lifting.
Kelkel... after 21 years in the Navy i would hope I am squared away!

[bethdoth]

Did chest Wed and Back yesterday. Was a noticeable increase in strength back day for sure. Still no sides.

[kelkel]

I'll echo what 600 said. If you want to put on more muscle, now's the time to eat.

[bethdoth]

If I could snap my fingers and be built anyway I want it would be like Lovbyts avatar. Yes I do need to put more muscle on to do that but right now would settle for a bit smaller version. I need to cut without losing muscle along the way.

[bethdoth]

Here is what I have consumed so far today and the wife and I are supposed to go out for fish fry tonight. Will probably have broiled haddock and cottage cheese. I still have about 250 calories left to reach 2200 and I am on track for atleast 1100 calories of protein. My TDEE is 2700 so IAW the nutrition forum I am on track? I wish this was as easy as just snapping my fingers but it isn't. To do a proper cycle takes a lot of dedication and effort. Monitoring sides, making sure your diet is in check, training properly, and taking all supplements on time. I have a a lot of respect for those that do this and do it RIGHT!

[bethdoth]

Great shoulder workout this morning with my son-in-law. Still no sides... slept like a baby again last night. I feel healthy, no acne, etc... I was almost considering this to be bum gear but, my source uses the same stuff and has went from fat ass to muscle fairly quickly...granted he is 29 years old. I have not really noticed much change except maybe a bit stronger and pumps seem a bit better could be placebo effect, but it has only been 1 week yesterday and my dose is only 50mg EOD. So including this morning that is 250mg so far.

[bethdoth]

Two weeks in today and have stuck to my current plan so far. I really have not had any sides but, only very minor gains. I have noticed a bit of strength increase but nothing to write home about. Some of you may or may not agree with this or be in the same boat,but my wife is afraid I am going to die from HRT (damn TV commercials). So if she knew I was doing tren she would freak out, not approve, and she has other things to worry about right now. So I was doing my tren subq just like my test. All the research indicated that is was just as effective, but less sides and NO TREN COUCH. I do my injection in the morning when I get up and if she heard me coughing up a lung she would question it. Well, she found out and we discussed it. So now I could go IM and not worry about her finding out. Should I go IM or continue subq and maybe go ED 40mg or 50mg. I still have plenty of tren to go with a 10 week cycle vise 8 and/or increase dose. Any thought?

[ScotchGuard02]

One of the things I noticed when I ran Tren was that got anorgasmia (inability to orgasm). I get an erection just fine but I couldn't finish. it took about 6 months before I was back to normal. If you don't care about that I think you're fine.

[bethdoth]

Actually I am starting to see some change in my build. My pumps are better than ever, getting more vascular, and like I said a bit stronger. I think I will stay the course and not change a thing. Worse case I ran a cycle and found that tren at 50mg EOD subq (27g 1/2" not pinching skin up) cause me no side effects but little gains. I can always run another cycle mid summer or do a test only cycle mid summer.

[tectime]

One of the things I noticed when I ran Tren was that got anorgasmia (inability to orgasm). I get an erection just fine but I couldn't finish. it took about 6 months before I was back to normal. If you don't care about that I think you're fine.

I hear you there man ! Same same about 6 months plus twisted up my lipid numbers too every time .been a couple of years since I've rode the ol Tren train but summers coming!

[bethdoth]

Well, 19 days into this cycle and only minor sides.. I increased tern to 60mg EOD on Sunday. Fell great... feel strong and my mood is very easy going for me ( I wonder if subq is the answer for reduced sides or maybe the low dose)?
Started a chest workout with decline barbell bench press today.. felt amazing and stronger than I have been in a very long time was moving weight that I haven't moved since I was in my 30's. Then I went to incline dumbbell press. Grabbed a weight a bit heavier than I normally use and it was to light, I was getting 18-20 reps from it. So I went heavier, 2nd set no problem still got 12 reps without going to failure, went up 10 pounds for the next set. My wrist has been bothering me for a while, but now I am hurt can't even lift a fork... (will drop weight now). While getting the heavy weight from the floor to the incline press position I felt a snap in my wrist, pain and down went the weight. Yes I was using my legs to assist getting the weight there. I will now shift gears to working on abs and dropping fat till I heal. I guess the learning experience here that I would like to share is this. As we age our joints get weaker, maybe with the increased muscle strength the old joints can't hang. I was loving the crazy pumps I was getting.

[hawk14dl]

So you're doing 60mg eod tren by sub q,along with trt.. brilliant.

What's the mg/ml? I'm curious how many cc's you're injecting sub q

[bethdoth]

The tren is .6 of a CC 100mg/ml test is only at .35 of a cc 200mg/ml the .6 is a bit much .5 is supposed to be max for subq but if you are steady and inject very very slow to let it find it's way, it works. I did cause some bruising once going to fast. 27g 1/2" syringe. I have not had any night sweats, insomnia, and my mood actually seems to be better while on tren. I just starting to see gains in the last 4 days or so. My main reason for going subq is because I didn't want my wife to know and a person never gets tren cough subq. I don't have any previous cycles to compare, but like I said just over 2 weeks and the pumps are unbelievable and the last few days it was like a light switch on my strength. It was a bit better beginning week 2 but this week was very noticeable. Keep in mind my goals I don't want to look (be as big) as professional body builder, but muscular and lean. So I haven't been lifting heavy for a long time. My moto is my muscles are for show not go...i'm older but make most young guys look bad. My decline bench before cycle I would work up to 225 maybe 8 reps. Today 135 felt like 10 pounds when I was warming up, was able to go right to 225 second set for 15 reps, went up to 245 did that twice with a guy helping me force reps muscle failure at 10 and 11, then went up 275 failure at 6 and 7. That is probably pretty weak for most on here, but for this guy that will be 54 in July I was happy with that. My point is subq is working and sides atleast for me at this dose are minimal.

[hawk14dl]

Those are pretty incredible numbers my man.

very cool idea about the sub q tren. I may add that to my next (winter) blast.

[bethdoth]

Do a www search "tren subq" you will find a lot of info.

Those are pretty incredible numbers my man.

very cool idea about the sub q tren. I may add that to my next (winter) blast.

[bethdoth]

Still none of the typical side effects except for very strong ... for me. With that said typical sides... I am stopping this cycle. 2 days ago I noticed blood in my semen. I have searched the forum and this doesn't seem to be something typical so it may not be related to the cycle. But, why risk it. I have stopped the cycle this morning and will give it a week to clear... if not then I will head to the Doc. I do have a question. Of people that have had issues on cycle did you tell your Doc what you were doing to assist them in diagnosing what could possibly be wrong?
During three years of HRT I have used HCG but really had no problem with testicle atrophy, so I have not been taking HCG. I did just order some because I felt maybe this could be causing my issue.

[lovbyts]

Ive heard of it a few times but it was always to fapping to hard. Stop looking at that online teen porn.

[bethdoth]

You may laugh at that but, since my 29 year old son has moved back home, into the basement bedroom (under ours) lets just say the sex life has tapered off. But my need for sex has not... so I have kinda had to take things into my own hands. It's midget porn that does it for me. . Do you think I should continue cycle and just refrain from sex for a while?

[lovbyts]

Yeah the kids/sons dont seem to like to to much when dad starts hitting on the girls they are bringing home.

If that is what it is everything should be fine in a day or two. If it's anything more you will also see it in your urine. Ive head of it several time and that's always what it is. If you aren't having some unusual pains in your scrotum or elsewhere I besides blue balls I wouldnt worry about it much if it doesnt continue.

[bethdoth]

No no pain but have noticed a bit of testicle atrophy, which I did not have on just test. It is scary the first time you see rust color! Like many have said a guys semen gets very thick when on tren. I feel a bit better now and will probably continue my cycle and monitor.