Chinese HGH concerns

[tdoe11]

What brand and dose are you using? Thanks

Serostim at 3.5 up to 5ius a day. For general fat loss, dreams, awesome skin and general well being 3.5 is plenty if it's Pharma.

Once you have had Pharma and realize its strength I shrug when I hear of people taking 10+IUs of generic. Try that crap with Pharma and see how long you can do it haha

[Malcome]

Well the Jintropin I got from Hong Kong with a prescription lab tests are back. What I got for my HGH blood serum levels. The 1st is when I was fasting and have never taken HGH in my life. It read, 0.29 ng/ml. The second test was 4 hours later after I injected 4 IU right after the 1st test. It read 12.50 ng/ml. So think this HGH reacts great in my body.

[thisAngelBites]

So Malcome, how do you know that the jintropin is folded properly and can actually attach to your receptors? Maybe there is real growth hormone in the vials - I have no idea.

I don't know how much the blood values are supposed to change - I know that there are some people here that have tested their blood with real GH they got from a proper pharmacy, so they have an idea how much growth hormone raises their serum GH (or IGF-1 - people test that as well), but then there is some "GH" that seems to raise blood levels much higher than real pharmaceutical growth hormone and is suspect, as well as some that seem underdosed.

I don't actually understand how the testing is supposed to work. I was under the impression that growth hormone had a 15 minute half life, so based on that, if you take a shot, and test four hours later, I would think it would be back to baseline. Hopefully someone else that knows more about testing will chime in for you.

And then there is some where people's tests seem to indicate that the GH is real, but the bodybuilders taking it say it doesn't feel anything like real GH - so who knows what to conclude? I've looked at some of the companies that produce growth hormone in China, and most of them manufacture many other biologics - so there could be many different kinds of peptides in there. I think it's not very knowable.

[lovbyts]

Well the Jintropin I got from Hong Kong with a prescription lab tests are back. What I got for my HGH blood serum levels. The 1st is when I was fasting and have never taken HGH in my life. It read, 0.29 ng/ml. The second test was 4 hours later after I injected 4 IU right after the 1st test. It read 12.50 ng/ml. So think this HGH reacts great in my body.

I'm not calling you a liar because I dont know you but I suspect any newbie coming here touting HGH. Ive been around long enough to know that's exactly what sources do just to stir up some more buisness by tricking those who are weak minded and easily fooled into thinking all of the sudden there is a new legit source out there only to find out after spending $$$$ and a few months of time to discover they have been scammed. Just my .02

[marcus300]

Another blood test result, where do I start Mmmmmmmm

I know try page one of this thread and read every page and word

[Malcome]

I have been looking for Jintropin for over 8 months and have spent time going to Mexico 3 times and money by getting fakes already. I'm new to body builder forum boards because I was using them to help me find it. It appears over many years that you guys have seen the worst hustlers around because I have been banned from one forum for one contact with a member, not even a post trying to share what I might have found, just to be helpful because I know how hard it is to find and want to help the next guy. I have absolutely no motif to make any money, I just wanted to help others and the seller because I supposedly got the real thing.

I will report back occasionally with any effects. I've only used it for 9 days now and exercised for the 1st time, I'm lazy. I did double the routine what I used to do and felt great, not wiped out like before and the skin on my hands is smoother with less wrinkles. Is this proof I don't know, is it in my head, I don't know. I'll just see what happens. I'm going to push certain aches or pains I'll get to see at 64 how well I heal or don't.

Dam the governments and companies that keep products from people for greed and control. It shouldn't be this hard or expensive to want to improve and extends one life with known and proven chemicals. Especially dam the people that have riped off so many people that all this massive distrust that abounds.

I can't do anything to prove myself, sorry. Just wanted to share. I also thought by sharing a source that it also would help me prove the quality of the products by having others more experienced than me use it and report back. I guess that logic goes out the window too.

The blood test thing is something I got off the forum boards and they recommended the 4 hours between test. They recommended 10 IU but since I never did it before I was cautious and only did the 4IU. I don't have any life long gym buddies to help guide me.

[lovbyts]

As Marcus said, go back to page one and read it. Lots of good info there.

Most all HGH is faked and over the years the companies faking it have found better and better peptides that will mimic side effects that some people seem to get from it as well as raising your IFG levels but you dont get that longevity or other real benefits you would from real HGH.

With real HGH it's impossible to start seeing or feeling any benefits in a couple of weeks let a long a couple of months, maybe 3+ months minimum.

If you are lazy and not really into working out then what is your purpose of using HGH, just the health benefits? You dont need 10iu for sure then or even 5. I would not go over 3iu unless you were seriously into working out 5x a week and had a very healthy diet. If you dont do things right even if it is real HGH the only thing you are going to get is the HGH extended gut and if it's not real HGH then who knows especially long term.

Thanks for trying to share but unless you have a legit pharmacy connection from one of the very few manufactures of HGH if it was me I would give it a pass.

[Malcome]

I'm up to my lazy self and hardly have exercised. 1 months ago I could only do 3 pushups and now I did 12, I cut myself 4 days ago and it is healed instead of the red inflammation I get for 2 weeks and I added 10 lb to my backpack to my weekly 1 mile uphill hike to 70lb and my heart beat only raised 12 beats to 175. Pathetic I know but tops for me, I couldn't do 10 push ups at 21. professional lazy. lol Went in for another lab test for IGF-1 and others will report back. I love this placebo effect, I didn't realize my mind was so powerful.

[lovbyts]

Well 12 pushups doesnt sound like a very strong placebo to me. Maybe it has something to do with actually exercising and improving. I can typically do 40+ pushups at a time and I actually consider that pretty pathetic.

If it's working for you then great, even if it is placebo.

[tdoe11]

Just wanted to update this thread real quick.....

A vet on another forum is testing many, and eventually all the popular non pharma Chinese gh brands with mass spec and HPLC testing. These are testing so poorly, many don't even contain gh in them. The ones that do have a very small amount, and often it contains improperly folded proteins. My understanding is improperly folded proteins will cause many problems down the line, one can potentially be Parkinson's disease......

I, just like the next guy want to find the "golden goose" of "cheap" human growth hormones. I have even ran Chinese generics in the past. The thing is this.....they don't exist

It is very expensive, and extremely in depth to make growth. Even if the generics you are purchasing have gh in them (which they probably do not) and then are of good, safe purity (which they probably are not) you can still be getting wrongly altered proteins that will cause serious problems down the line.

Just wanted to let you guys know.......be careful ladies and gents.

[lovbyts]

Just wanted to update this thread real quick.....

A vet on another forum is testing many, and eventually all the popular non pharma Chinese gh brands with mass spec and HPLC testing. These are testing so poorly, many don't even contain gh in them. The ones that do have a very small amount, and often it contains improperly folded proteins. My understanding is improperly folded proteins will cause many problems down the line, one can potentially be Parkinson's disease......

I, just like the next guy want to find the "golden goose" of "cheap" human growth hormones. I have even ran Chinese generics in the past. The thing is this.....they don't exist

It is very expensive, and extremely in depth to make growth. Even if the generics you are purchasing have gh in them (which they probably do not) and then are of good, safe purity (which they probably are not) you can still be getting wrongly altered proteins that will cause serious problems down the line.

Just wanted to let you guys know.......be careful ladies and gents.

How many times have we said (warned people) that we did not know but were worried about the long term negative effects of some of these Chinese cheap fake HGH clones out there?

I'm sure there will be a lot of people who still wont listen and keep trying but at this point at least we can say they were warned and we did our best. It wont do them any good but I will sleep better.

Thanks for the information. Hopefully it will get around.

[marcus300]

Just wanted to update this thread real quick.....

A vet on another forum is testing many, and eventually all the popular non pharma Chinese gh brands with mass spec and HPLC testing. These are testing so poorly, many don't even contain gh in them. The ones that do have a very small amount, and often it contains improperly folded proteins. My understanding is improperly folded proteins will cause many problems down the line, one can potentially be Parkinson's disease......

I, just like the next guy want to find the "golden goose" of "cheap" human growth hormones. I have even ran Chinese generics in the past. The thing is this.....they don't exist

It is very expensive, and extremely in depth to make growth. Even if the generics you are purchasing have gh in them (which they probably do not) and then are of good, safe purity (which they probably are not) you can still be getting wrongly altered proteins that will cause serious problems down the line.

Just wanted to let you guys know.......be careful ladies and gents.

Its what ive been preaching for years

some have extremely dangerous chemicals and some have other growth releasing agents

You cant buy cheap hgh, if its cheap its shit!!!

[tdoe11]

Yup. It's pretty scary. Man o man. Parkinson's? That's gnarly, especially considering "real" high has very minimal effects over a long period in comparison to aas. I am sure people will still use it to, but at least i know I tried as well. I will continue to update as things and testing progresses.....

[Sgt. Hartman]

It'd be impossible to make any credible connection between Parkinson's and bunk gh. Sure it's possible but nearly anything is possible so no reason to take the chicken little sky is falling view of it.

[tdoe11]

It'd be impossible to make any credible connection between Parkinson's and bunk gh. Sure it's possible but nearly anything is possible so no reason to take the chicken little sky is falling view of it.

This was advice given from a PHd who works directly with Parkinson's and similar diseases. Improperly folded proteins, according to him, can cause Parkinson's and other diseases down the line. Many Chinese hghs proteins have been improperly folded during manufacturing. That is the ones that actually carry hgh in them.

But, as all information, take it or leave it. If you choose to disregard that is your choice. Just passing along the knowledge that was given to me......

[thisAngelBites]

Improperly folded proteins are implicated in lots of health concerns. They body cannot remove them efficiently. I keep meaning to write up a post with some journal articles. I will see if I can dig some up.

[tdoe11]

Improperly folded proteins are implicated in lots of health concerns. They body cannot remove them efficiently. I keep meaning to write up a post with some journal articles. I will see if I can dig some up.

That would be great!

[thisAngelBites]

Here's something I found that gives a decent overview of proteins and folding:

Protein Misfolding and Degenerative Diseases | Learn Science at Scitable

It doesn't just gloss over the subject, but neither does it assume that the reader has any background knowledge. I will try and see if I can relocate all the articles I was going to use to write up something in more detail about this (my browser crashed and I lost all my tabs, sadly, so will have to start again).

[tarmyg]

The world's longest thread about why any HGH that is not from an actual pharmacy should not be put in your body and people still do it. I am baffled honestly!

[lovbyts]

The world's longest thread about why any HGH that is not from an actual pharmacy should not be put in your body and people still do it. I am baffled honestly!

Pride. Especially once someone spends the money they won't admit they were wrong even if it means health risk. Same mentality for teens, it won't happen to me even though there is proof it will.

Thank you and those who are still trying to spread the word.

[Simon1972]

The world's longest thread about why any HGH that is not from an actual pharmacy should not be put in your body and people still do it. I am baffled honestly!

you mean this stuff isnt real!!!! ohhhhhhhh dang nam it!

[lovbyts]

you mean this stuff isnt real!!!! ohhhhhhhh dang nam it!

<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157564"/>

Unfortunately it's not nearly that obvious or it would be easy to convince people. It's when they come in vials and pens that look exactly like the real manufacturing companies sell only to pharmacy's.

[Far from massive]

Hell a few years ago when I last bought some Hyges, the pamphlet was not even folded properly :-)

Thanks for the link Angel it was a great read. I can just see an unregulated Chinese manufacturer who was actually going to all the trouble to try to make real HGH find out some of the protein chains were showing up as improperly folded dumping the whole run....Yeah right!

[thisAngelBites]

You're welcome. It's interesting stuff and we're learning so much about the difficulties with these proteopathies - I don't think anyone knows for sure how they affect us.

[diabolicsoul]

That's why I'd only get HGH from a script. Scary to think about the people who wasted money, and injected themselves with something that can cause potential health problems down the line

[marcus300]

bump

[SlammiN]

Ok I have only just come across all this info, so now I don't know what to think.

I have been on a course of Euro Pharma Eurotropin 4iu ED for the past 4 weeks. 2iu 6am, 2iu 4pm

I have been measuring my blood glucose levels to see how they react.

Just before 2iu GH shot - Blood glucose is 6.2mmol
10 mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 5.6mmol
20 mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 5.7mmol
30 mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 4.8mmol
1hr 45mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 4.3mmol - This is after a workout too
After this I had some protein and prob 30g carbs
10 mins after Blood glucose is 4.3mmol
20 mins after Blood glucose is 5.1mmol

What does this mean? Is this any indication at all that this is HGH or not? Unsure what I am supposed to do after reading all this!

[nba2005uk]

I have close friends who tried both pharma and GOOD chinese. Experienced very similar side effects and results, the only difference was the price tag. Clearly people here have had bad experiences with chinese hgh which is fair enough as it is commonly faked. But trust me there is good suppliers out there. You'll know who these are because they have been around for years, have 1000's of people speaking positively about them online, and PLENTY of blood results to prove it. Are you really naive enough to believe these suppliers are paying several 100 if not 1000's forum members to lie and say its good stuff when it really isn't. I wont mention the supplier I get it from but hes one of the most popular online and I've been using it for well over a year. Took me a while to see solid gains but it eventually came and completely changed my physique.
Just my 2 cents.

[EasyDoesIt]

I know what you mean, I believe every knucklehead in the gym that tells me his hgh is just as good as the pharm and a lot cheaper to because manufacturing it is just like making a bottle of test. It's all the same stuff. I don't comment on here much anymore, but like every other industry people are always trying to battle the bashings about their products or services. A Volkswagon cannot be built for the same cost of a Mercedes. PERIOD.... I am not going to go back and forth with you about it because I have no agenda and don't care if people think all quality is the same. There will always be people with their head in the sand playing Ostrich to reality and cannot fathom paying for quality. Non pharm is much higher than pharm cause it is not the same product! There are loads of people around here saying theirs is just as good and no one is paying them to say it they do not want to stop paying cheap prices for junk, so they do not face reality.

[nba2005uk]

I know what you mean, I believe every knucklehead in the gym that tells me his hgh is just as good as the pharm and a lot cheaper to because manufacturing it is just like making a bottle of test. It's all the same stuff. I don't comment on here much anymore, but like every other industry people are always trying to battle the bashings about their products or services. A Volkswagon cannot be built for the same cost of a Mercedes. PERIOD.... I am not going to go back and forth with you about it because I have no agenda and don't care if people think all quality is the same. There will always be people with their head in the sand playing Ostrich to reality and cannot fathom paying for quality. Non pharm is much higher than pharm cause it is not the same product! There are loads of people around here saying theirs is just as good and no one is paying them to say it they do not want to stop paying cheap prices for junk, so they do not face reality.

I don't think anybody is saying chinese is better than pharma, nor are they saying its the same. Clearly pharma is stronger and better that's common sense. Hell I've just bought myself some Norditropin that I'll be trying. BUT those doubting it completely must of had bad experiences or not gave it the patience thats needed of hgh. I can personally say the scales show I am 12-14 pounds heavier than I was before starting the hgh with the same, if not lower bodyfat, and I've been training 10 years and hit a major plateau before starting it.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Its what ive been preaching for years

some have extremely dangerous chemicals and some have other growth releasing agents

You cant buy cheap hgh, if its cheap its shit!!!

Please listen to marcus because he's right about GH coming from China!

[MikeyZ23]

Just want to say that I came back from some other boards. I had a long discussion with my wife about HGH use. I truly advocate for safety for myself. I don't judge what people want to take, but this thread has given me A LOT to think about. I was considering some of the china stuff that's hot right now, and I'm sure you vets know the color name (being vague) for a reason, and I don't want to go ANY further with that..... Other forums have minimal information regarding safety and being smart about this stuff.

I'm glad to be back to the intelligent discussion here. I will not be jumping on the cool kid train. Maybe pharma down the road, but I'm not ready yet.

[Sc0rch]

I have close friends who tried both pharma and GOOD chinese. Experienced very similar side effects and results, the only difference was the price tag. Clearly people here have had bad experiences with chinese hgh which is fair enough as it is commonly faked. But trust me there is good suppliers out there. You'll know who these are because they have been around for years, have 1000's of people speaking positively about them online, and PLENTY of blood results to prove it. Are you really naive enough to believe these suppliers are paying several 100 if not 1000's forum members to lie and say its good stuff when it really isn't. I wont mention the supplier I get it from but hes one of the most popular online and I've been using it for well over a year. Took me a while to see solid gains but it eventually came and completely changed my physique.
Just my 2 cents.

Exactly. You can get bunk pharm just like you can get bunk chinese. You can get good chinese just like you can get good pharma. I've read the blood tests from chinese as well over the years, there is no refuting you can get good chinese hgh.

I'm sure I know the website you're talking about, and yes, they're golden

i don't know what it is about this board. I haven't posted in years but it's the same people bashing ALL chinese insisting it's garbage. They cannot and never will admit there is good chinese...they have some kind of other agenda besides concern for people.

[EasyDoesIt]

Pharm grade is pharm grade and the companies that make it do not sell online. It is sold through a prescription here in the US. If it did not come from a prescription at original origin then it is not pharm. So do not confuse someone selling something with a pharm grade label as being from the original manufaturer. I do not know how it is obtained outside the US. but that is the only way it is sold here. Those companies have never dropped their prices either. It also doesn't skirt out the back door of the warehouse. Inventory on a product like that has better security than a warehouse full of candy bars.

[billy_ba]

a friend of mine just picked up some chinese jintropin. The boxes look legit however the code doesn't verify on their site and the sticker does not have the fiber.
He is however getting "results'

You guys think it's peptides?? maybe rebranded generic

[EasyDoesIt]

a friend of mine just picked up some chinese jintropin. The boxes look legit however the code doesn't verify on their site and the sticker does not have the fiber.
He is however getting "results'

You guys think it's peptides?? maybe rebranded generic

I had auth codes and threads all lined up and it was pure junk. To me the word generic equates to junk. I guess I am still surprised colors of tops and generic is still a discussion among some, but there are always new people being introduced to it everyday. If quality was able to be reproduced cheap it would and you would not question the real from the junk. IMO REAL HGH is not going down in price. Do whatever you think billy_ba, but I would not throw hard earned money away. I question what results are considered to be?
I think I will just say as Ronnie did, "Listen to Marcus he is right about HGH out of china

[billy_ba]

I had auth codes and threads all lined up and it was pure junk. To me the word generic equates to junk. I guess I am still surprised colors of tops and generic is still a discussion among some, but there are always new people being introduced to it everyday. If quality was able to be reproduced cheap it would and you would not question the real from the junk. IMO REAL HGH is not going down in price. Do whatever you think billy_ba, but I would not throw hard earned money away. I question what results are considered to be?
I think I will just say as Ronnie did, "Listen to Marcus he is right about HGH out of china

I guess when people are new to something they don't know whats up. I've read this thread over the past couple days and got a swift reality check. You're right about there even being a conversation about top colors and generics. When they are all garbage, what's the point?

As far as the results, my friend had a noticeable drop in BF, hypoglycemia after pinning and tiredness at the beginning of use. 4iu per day.
Another friend on trt had been stuck at 200 lbs and was able to have a noticeable growth while on this for 6 months. Hands got bigger, claims his dick got bigger and his face and body look bigger.Got up to 220lbs and leaner.

My friend got these directly from a gensci distributor which should be a huge red flag. How the **** are distributors even counter fitting their own shit??? And how can an actual pharmaceutical company have distributors that will sell like this. The situation tells me this whole company is a scam.

As for some of the people on this thread...seems like the only people that would support the idea of these things being legit are the ones selling the stuff and counter-fitting. I notice some of the users who are defending whatever this stuff is are new to the forum with relatively low number of posts. Some with bad grammar (Probably Chinese) Leads me to believe they are the ones pushing it. You should know what you are putting into your body, and knowingly selling someone some unknown substance can be dangerous and is just wrong.

Does anyone on here know of any analytical labs that can test what's inside this stuff?

***EDIT

THIS POST SHOULD BE A STICKY ON THE GH FORUM

[thisAngelBites]

I guess when people are new to something they don't know whats up. I've read this thread over the past couple days and got a swift reality check. You're right about there even being a conversation about top colors and generics. When they are all garbage, what's the point?

As far as the results, my friend had a noticeable drop in BF, hypoglycemia after pinning and tiredness at the beginning of use. 4iu per day.
Another friend on trt had been stuck at 200 lbs and was able to have a noticeable growth while on this for 6 months. Hands got bigger, claims his dick got bigger and his face and body look bigger.Got up to 220lbs and leaner.

My friend got these directly from a gensci distributor which should be a huge red flag. How the **** are distributors even counter fitting their own shit??? And how can an actual pharmaceutical company have distributors that will sell like this. The situation tells me this whole company is a scam.

As for some of the people on this thread...seems like the only people that would support the idea of these things being legit are the ones selling the stuff and counter-fitting. I notice some of the users who are defending whatever this stuff is are new to the forum with relatively low number of posts. Some with bad grammar (Probably Chinese) Leads me to believe they are the ones pushing it. You should know what you are putting into your body, and knowingly selling someone some unknown substance can be dangerous and is just wrong.

Does anyone on here know of any analytical labs that can test what's inside this stuff?

***EDIT

THIS POST SHOULD BE A STICKY ON THE GH FORUM

You can test the molecular weight of what is in the vial, but it still won't tell you whether the stuff was properly made and is folded properly (GH is a long peptide, or chain of amino acids and all of these molecules fold in sometimes unpredictable ways). If a peptide is folded in the wrong place, it cannot attach to receptors on cells, and it basically not bioavailable.

I suspect a lot of the chinese stuff consists of complicated mixtures of stuff to mimic the side effects of GH. Think of what the profit potential is if you were able to mix some insulin and peptides together such that people thought it was GH.

[Malcome]

As stated above sources appearing legit could be counterfeit, does that also go for forum boards? Could they be created for certain purposes by main stream pharmaceutical company's? Is that ever possible? Just wondering.

.

[EasyDoesIt]

I guess when people are new to something they don't know whats up. I've read this thread over the past couple days and got a swift reality check. You're right about there even being a conversation about top colors and generics. When they are all garbage, what's the point?

As far as the results, my friend had a noticeable drop in BF, hypoglycemia after pinning and tiredness at the beginning of use. 4iu per day.
Another friend on trt had been stuck at 200 lbs and was able to have a noticeable growth while on this for 6 months. Hands got bigger, claims his dick got bigger and his face and body look bigger.Got up to 220lbs and leaner.

My friend got these directly from a gensci distributor which should be a huge red flag. How the **** are distributors even counter fitting their own shit??? And how can an actual pharmaceutical company have distributors that will sell like this. The situation tells me this whole company is a scam.

As for some of the people on this thread...seems like the only people that would support the idea of these things being legit are the ones selling the stuff and counter-fitting. I notice some of the users who are defending whatever this stuff is are new to the forum with relatively low number of posts. Some with bad grammar (Probably Chinese) Leads me to believe they are the ones pushing it. You should know what you are putting into your body, and knowingly selling someone some unknown substance can be dangerous and is just wrong.

Does anyone on here know of any analytical labs that can test what's inside this stuff?

***EDIT

THIS POST SHOULD BE A STICKY ON THE GH FORUM

I am not the expert that many here like Marcus and others, but I will speak from some of my experiences and HGH ramblings from guys I would not buy a tightly wrapped box of candy from. I had the hypoglycemia and didn’t know any better other than I thought I was having an issue, but 20 minutes after pin, I was starting to shake and sweat, then the educators here woke me up to the GHRP 6 and did not skip a beat and answered that issue with confidence. Tiredness in real yes, but nothing any over the counter product can have in it, but also could be wishful thinking after forking out money to make themselves believe they didn't get handled. The private part growing was probably from excessive pounding with his own hand. Lol j/k, but I have not heard of that one and I took HGH for a fair amount of years. If that had happened to me I for sure would have noticed it. That sounds like a deal closer to a lot of guys in the gym also. Cialis helps that out and so many people tend not to tell about everything else being dumped in them. Sounds like a gym story when standing next to a female that doesn't want attention. Bone growth in the hands takes years at a reasonable dosage. But I had hand growth and put on 12 pounds pretty quick, but it was water weight and that was when I said I don't give a sh.. about how perfectly everything checks out, this is crap!! I also have never been obsessed with size, so I didn't try to justify the weight gain by thinking I had real product. That is how I ended up pretty active on this thread way back for a long time. Some of these guys are on 4IUS for 6-8 weeks and the claims are strictly in their mind. Possibly was dieting and lost weight, should be able to do that without HGH especially if under 50 years old and disciplined unless there is a medical issue. I have trained people enough to know that if they are not losing weight, there is a reason and booze tends to be a big one. Also, there have been nutritional supplements that were spiked with fat burning products that were not over the counter. The word gets out how great it works then the plug is pulled before they get caught. With the counterfeit HGH the plug never has to be pulled because there is always a new salesman and a new batch of buyers thinking they got a deal. They will always have results that do not exist anywhere near the time frame needed. I know very few people that will tell a group of guys that they were just handled for a bunch of money. Also, when the seller gets confronted because a few finally put there heads together and say, "WE GOT FU...D" The same line of garbage comes out of the sellers mouth. "It's the same source and I trust him". Oh yeah you can trust him because he is such an honorable guy. I have said as many here have, when you take pharmaceutical grade HGH, you truly will know the difference. Even prescription size doses to maybe slightly higher kept the body fat off and muscle density continued to get better. It’s been awhile but I would say I did small doses for probably 3 years straight. I am and was at an age, that I wasn’t loading up, but looking at long term steady benefits. If all were right I would be back on it tomorrow.
But please just because it is a great product, don’t run out and find something just to try. I am probably way older than you and I know the benefits, but in my mind if I could never obtain real, then I would live without.

One other point that has bugged me and I don’t comment much about this anymore, is because someone jumps on here, usually new to this forum and starts stating that someone knocking Chinese and Generics has an agenda.

There can’t be an agenda, when it’s real. Most of the people that have been steady on this thread have repeated themselves more than enough times to say I give, get burnt and see you later. Only a dumba.. would hop on a forum like this and go on about this to sell something to someone they don’t know. Trust me I have had dumba.. contact me in message after a Chinese junk post like this. I think, know wonder these idiots still believe in it or just think everyone is stupid and price will sell anything and it's just not quite the quality. I really cannot even talk to someone who has been around hormones for years and really believes it's just not quite as good and you can take more because it will still be cheaper. To me that is the same mentality that want to save on pins and reuses them.

I hope that I did not ramble for nothing and you will see both sides as I think you already do. That’s the reason I went through all of this. I figured you were questioning, but the gains and big peck… may have had you thinking, well it’s cheap enough, might be worth it just for that. LOL

Also, when I receive the email alerts and see Marcus and this angel bites, still patiently stating the same thing over and over again, I feel like a slacker not at least giving my experience to those looking for an answer. This thread helped me and clarified what I had already suspected.
I learned as an instructor many years ago, it is easy to say screw it; I am not bothering, but takes more character and effort to make things work and fix it, (them)!

There are some very good monitors and members on this forum that are here to truly help others and I think all of us want to give back by saying thanks with our own bad experience. A bad experience could have been a much worse one.

Hope the spelling is reasonable here!
Best in 2016!