Panntastic guide and insight into PIP

[clarky.]

There's room?



Great thread Pan! I don't ever recall experiencing PIP but if I do, I'll be re-reading this for sure!
Very nicely done.
Re Lov. That 16 ga needle is what they use on me when I give blood. Quite a scary looking needle to say the least!

They would have 2 going by the size of your arms kel.

[marcus300]

Pan and far and massive, I think your defiantly onto something. Well done guys

[jimmyinkedup]

Pan and far and massive, I think your defiantly onto something. Well done guys

I agree.

[panntastic]

It's wide open to interpretation as there are many factors involved in pip and the possible causes.
You would need to do group testing with different batches of ugl and home brewed gear with the same person administering the injections.
Ideally a machine would be best as theres little possibility of the needle moving in the injection site but that's just fantasy land thinking.

[Bonaparte]

The idea of a "semi-crashed state" invisible to the naked eye is...well, I'm going to be nice here. A molecule is either in solution or it isn't.

And yes, hormones with a higher melting point tend to cause more PIP because they are less soluble (and therefore more prone to crashing and will often do so in the muscle). Test E, nandrolone, and EQ are all generally painless because they are liquids at body temp and therefore cannot crash in depot.

[panntastic]

The idea of a "semi-crashed state" invisible to the naked eye is...well, I'm going to be nice here. A molecule is either in solution or it isn't.

And yes, hormones with a higher melting point tend to cause more PIP because they are less soluble (and therefore more prone to crashing and will often do so in the muscle). Test E, nandrolone, and EQ are all generally painless because they are liquids at body temp and therefore cannot crash in depot.

I'm glad you've added to this B
It was just a random theory that's all
It's all science that's way beyond me down to molecular level.
I just wanted to explore possibilities into causation of pip

Do you have anything to add on the heating before injecting theory?

[Bonaparte]

I'm glad you've added to this B
It was just a random theory that's all
It's all science that's way beyond me down to molecular level.
I just wanted to explore possibilities into causation of pip

Do you have anything to add on the heating before injecting theory?

It is mostly useful for thinning thick oils enough to be drawn more quickly and injected using a thinner needle.
But it may cause less pip by spreading out within the muscle with more ease during the actual injection process, as someone mentioned (maybe FFM).

[WMSuperSport]

Great info. Wish I read this in the beginning. I used to have moderate PIP because I'm new and get nervous and shake quite a bit. But now I've combined a couple tricks from here and get virtually no pip now. Thanks

[panntastic]

Bump

[baseline_9]

What about possible cause number 4, and IMO the actual cause.... The compound itself... Crashing once injected

I think we discussed this before Pan.....

I have never had a painful test e shot from poor injection technique even if I have moved the pin around.....

[panntastic]

What about possible cause number 4, and IMO the actual cause.... The compound itself... Crashing once injected

I think we discussed this before Pan.....

I have never had a painful test e shot from poor injection technique even if I have moved the pin around.....

Are you on about prop?
I looked into this a while back
I find it hard to believe that gear will crash once inside the site, unless it was unstable before hand.

If its safely in a solution for several weeks prior there's no way it would crash inside the muscle surely?

I also looked int Llewelyns theory of this and he said it was possible because of the body's uptake of Ba and bb leaving test at the site.
The whole job of the bb is to keep the depot at the site
So a higher concentration made the bb should be altered for this.

This again I find hard to believe because its already in a stable solution
Why would the body start ripping apart the solution at the injection site and not once in the system

We spoke about the raw characteristics of prop also being crystalline in nature this may be possible but once again once in a stable solution its liquid not crystalline

[Buster Brown]

Great read, thank you.

[austinite]

Pann, no idea how on earth I missed this thread. Very well done, brother. Good follow ups, too.

[panntastic]

Pann, no idea how on earth I missed this thread. Very well done, brother. Good follow ups, too.

Think personally there's some great insight by lots of members in there and hopefully puts a few theory's / myths straight

[Alright john]

I believe warming the gear makes it more stable and easier to use.
My theory although not scientific was logic based on honey and live beer.
Both these are live cultures and once warmed become clearer and thinner.

I use a warming pad that is made from oats and other grains. Children's bedtime toys have them too. You place it in the microwave for a couple of mi utes to heat. When it's warm I place my syringe with oil on it and leave there to warm.
One thing I have noticed is that if there are air bubbles present in the syringe they disappear once the solution is warmed and any stack in the syringe is now a even colour throughout.

[panntastic]

I believe warming the gear makes it more stable and easier to use.
My theory although not scientific was logic based on honey and live beer.
Both these are live cultures and once warmed become clearer and thinner.

I use a warming pad that is made from oats and other grains. Children's bedtime toys have them too. You place it in the microwave for a couple of mi utes to heat. When it's warm I place my syringe with oil on it and leave there to warm.
One thing I have noticed is that if there are air bubbles present in the syringe they disappear once the solution is warmed and any stack in the syringe is now a even colour throughout.

Can you clarify "more stable" please

I agree if using oils from separate vials warming them stops the "swirling" effect in the barrel but I'm not sure this is detrimental to anything pip related

[testluva]

PIP description from my UGL master brewer

"PIP is caused for a few reasons, but mainly this: When you inject the oils, they are a solution of solvents, oil, and hormone. As the body absorbs each of those at different rates, if the oil and solvent is absorbed before all of the hormone is absorbed, you will have PIP. This is because there's no more solvent to dissolve/melt the hormone into a liquid, so you end up with crystals inside your muscle tissue. This is why test prop often hurts so badly. Standard 2/20 solvent ratio will result in PIP, but something like a 2/17 will be smooth and painless but less stable in terms of temperature fluctuations. The thicker AND closer you can get your oils to crashing, but with out actually crashing, the better in terms of PIP. Solvents are absorbed quickly, oil is absorbed more slowly, but the hormone absorption rate depends on the particular hormone being used as well as the person getting the injection."

This is another PIP explanation from a master brewer.

[panntastic]

PIP description from my UGL master brewer

"PIP is caused for a few reasons, but mainly this: When you inject the oils, they are a solution of solvents, oil, and hormone. As the body absorbs each of those at different rates, if the oil and solvent is absorbed before all of the hormone is absorbed, you will have PIP. This is because there's no more solvent to dissolve/melt the hormone into a liquid, so you end up with crystals inside your muscle tissue. This is why test prop often hurts so badly. Standard 2/20 solvent ratio will result in PIP, but something like a 2/17 will be smooth and painless but less stable in terms of temperature fluctuations. The thicker AND closer you can get your oils to crashing, but with out actually crashing, the better in terms of PIP. Solvents are absorbed quickly, oil is absorbed more slowly, but the hormone absorption rate depends on the particular hormone being used as well as the person getting the injection."

This is another PIP explanation from a master brewer.

I respectfully disagree to this statement.
Benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate are used as a solvent and co solvent to keep the solution stable.
Your saying the less used and the closer to crashing the solution is the better? I don't agree with this.
The info you posted was from a William Llewelyn article
And I personally think its got its inaccuracies but I'm not going to go into that now.

And the thicker the solution the safer it is with pip?
That's not a great statement
I can brew test p 250mg/ml make it thin like water using mct oil and ethyl oleate and be pain free
Zero pip.
How would you explain this?

[testluva]

Ok great I'll take two 20mL vials. Great job if you got it down. But I prefer a little GSO in my sauce.

[panntastic]

Ok great I'll take two 20mL vials. Great job if you got it down. But I prefer a little GSO in my sauce.

For short esters I always use mct as its very thin and if needed will go through a slin pin

[testluva]

Ok so can you get PrimoA to hold in suspension at 100mg/ml, with none or little PIP?

[Blitz88]

What are the typical symptoms, onset, and duration after injecting a high BA content?

[raeford25]

Awesome thread

[Novice489]

Found this very informative. Bumping thread for it's pure educational value!