"Functional Training with a Fork" is a must read for everyone taking testosterone!

[tarmyg]

Ronnie,

You recommended no HCG above. I have not seen anyone recommend that for a long time so could you, considering every single person here advocates it, elaborate on this specifically?

Thanks

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ronnie,

You recommended no HCG above. I have not seen anyone recommend that for a long time so could you, considering every single person here advocates it, elaborate on this specifically?

Thanks

I only recommend using HCG during a PCT because it increases estrogen levels which can make you estrogen dominant. Excessive amounts of estrogen are linked to cancer, heart disease, mood swings, and immune system and sexual dysfunction. Does that answer your question?

[Mr.BB]

I only recommend using HCG during a PCT because it increases estrogen levels which can make you estrogen dominant. Excessive amounts of estrogen are linked to cancer, heart disease, mood swings, and immune system and sexual dysfunction. Does that answer your question?

Your answer is kinda conflicting cause if hcg increases estrogens, taking it during pct would be the worse as testosterone is at its lowest...

[Splifton]

Your answer is kinda conflicting cause if hcg increases estrogens, taking it during pct would be the worse as testosterone is at its lowest...

I second this. ICSH is the endogenous pituitary analogue of hCG and if exogenous administration of hCG is current then it's capable of triggering a negative feedback mechanism and altering effectors functions. It's disruption of homeostatic balance to the HPTA is minor in comparison to a full fledge dosage of AAS, but any form of suppression to the endocrinological loop can be detrimental to the efficacy of recovery.

I understand the standpoint regarding the carcinogenic nature of ********* (blurred out the word steroid-al?) oestrogens as well as the genotoxicity, but the presence of SERM's mitigates a portion of it's ability to exert oestrogenic related side effects via ligand receptor cleavage. (Solely dependent upon pharmaceutical choice) There is an inherent risk of the unbound oestrogens, but majority will be bound to SHBG, albumin, and transcortin.

I could see some side of that practice due to the weaker binding affinity of estradiol versus testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. I can only think that because of the lower androgenic presence in PCT, the capability of successful coupling for oestrogens (estradiol notably) would be heightened due to the absence of testosterone amplifying estradiol's activity by inhibiting transport binding.

Nevertheless, there is still the aspect of suppression to the anterior pituitary? The leydig cells won't naturally produce testosterone and when the feedback mechanism responds to the absence of exogenous analogues, the brief moment of effector response would disrupt the serge of LH and the synergistic interactions between LH and FSH. It's like 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards..

[Ronnie Rowland]

Your answer is kinda conflicting cause if hcg increases estrogens, taking it during pct would be the worse as testosterone is at its lowest...

BB I don't understand where you are coming from. Keep in mind that testosterone converts into estrogen. Therefore, if you have less testosterone in your system during PCT you will also have less estrogen. Running HCG during a cycle while test levels are high causes even higher levels of estrogens. It's that simple!

[marcus300]

BB I don't understand where you are coming from. Keep in mind that testosterone converts into estrogen. Therefore, if you have less testosterone in your system during PCT you will also have less estrogen. Running HCG during a cycle while test levels are high causes even higher levels of estrogens. It's that simple!

HCG during a cycle will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, but levels under this are manageable along side the higher Test levels with an AI.

Also keeping the function of your testicles will help recover and will aid a smother PCT which would be a better approach that the cure of testicular dysfunction at the end of a cycle and prevention would be a easier way by using HCG during a cycle imho. Dr.Crisler mentions it often in his PCT protocols and quotes many studies Ronnie.

I guess use what works best for the person but I would advice during a cycle better than at the end IMHO.

congrats on the book mate

[Ronnie Rowland]

HCG during a cycle will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, but levels under this are manageable along side the higher Test levels with an AI.

Also keeping the function of your testicles will help recover and will aid a smother PCT which would be a better approach that the cure of testicular dysfunction at the end of a cycle and prevention would be a easier way by using HCG during a cycle imho. Dr.Crisler mentions it often in his PCT protocols and quotes many studies Ronnie.

I guess use what works best for the person but I would advice during a cycle better than at the end IMHO.

congrats on the book mate

Thanks my friend! I also wanted to point out that my original answer was in reference to NACH3 not using HCG. The reason I don't think NACH3 should use HCG is because he has a weakened immune system or what I often refer to as a dysfunctional immune system. Studies have shown that HCG is produced in the female body during pregnancy. The production of HCG causes many undesired changes in their bodies such as mood swings, nausea, fatigue, etc. As their bodies adjust to the increased production of HCG, the hormonal changes affect their body's defense mechanism and results in a low or dysfunctional immune system.

I would also like to reiterate that newly published studies have strongly linked the use of anti-estrogen to heart disease in males.

I believe that Crisler's power PCT works well at first, but after a while the body can adapt to frequent use of HCG-hence making it less effective. It's a catch 22! I think the take home message is EVERYONE needs to use as few drugs as possible in order to protect their overall health and well-being. I think it's a HUGE mistake to make gaining size more important than remaining healthy. I believe the vast majority of us can gain a decent amount of size while remaining healthy if we play it smart by living a functional lifestyle!

[kelkel]

I think it's a HUGE mistake to make gaining size more important than remaining healthy. I believe the vast majority of us can gain a decent amount of size while remaining healthy if we play it smart by living a functional lifestyle!

Could not agree more with that statement. I've said basically that so many times on this forum.

[NACH3]

BB I don't understand where you are coming from. Keep in mind that testosterone converts into estrogen. Therefore, if you have less testosterone in your system during PCT you will also have less estrogen. Running HCG during a cycle while test levels are high causes even higher levels of estrogens. It's that simple!

Ronnie, is what Marcus is saying in regards to excessive use of HCG(<1000iu in a wk) will result in more estrogen, as well as damaging ones leydig cell function(our testes are last to respond during pct - and I thought that Crisler's power pct is seeing if that persons testes will actually respond to the amounts of HCG used 'during pct'... If they don't respond than it's likely that person won't recover... Leading me back to 500iu(2 wkly shots) of HCG during a cycle will yield the desired results that Marcus included above... And I never understood not using HCG while 'on' and stopping all functionality when its a suppressive as well - suppress your testes during pct yet trying to recover?!

It's obvious there's much to be learned regarding HCG and its use either while on or off... We're all different, however, I don't think I'd use it during pct but I'm open to reading about it in your book! Once I get there and have ?'s I'll post em up! Thx Ronnie!