Reddish skin and face

[Slacker78]

Hello guys, today i was looking at mirror and i noticed i was more reddish than usual. In the Gym, while i was pumping my arms appeared like i had taken sun in the beach.

I'm on cycle since 2 weeks with 500 Deca and 250 Test E ( and all ancilliary to control E2, etc. ). I did a blood work after 1 week to check my E2 level as i felt a shit, and my HCT was 44 still and all other values were good.

In the meanwhile, i felt a bit anxious and my BP was before around 135/80.

Could this reddish on the skin, caused by E2 increasing level over the upper range ? Tomorrow i will do another blood work to check. At moment, i'm at Aromasin 6.25mg/ED but at beginning i shut down E2 too much ( in the previous blood work E2 was < 5 ) even if in the first week my gear dosage was DECA 250mg/W and Test E 250mg/W ( 500mg in total ). Now i increased the DECA to 500mg/w, and i guess either for gear accumulation in the blood stream and the increased amount ( 250+ of DECA ), my estrogens level is increasing and the AI dosage could be too much low to control it.

I will check also HCT tomorrow, but is too much little time i started the cycle, so i don't think it's blood count related... maybe to E2.

What do you about ?

[TestoSuper]

Hello Slacker, I don't know what can be causing this .. I don't think reddish on the skin can be caused by E2.. it could be an increase in hemoglobin and red blood cells .. but it seems a little early you're just at the beginning of the cycle..
regarding slight anxiety, deca makes me a little bit the same effect, especially at the beginning of the cycle..

[Vash the Stampede]

I think you are being a little paranoid. I'm glad to see you are doing regular blood work and tracking those important numbers.

6.25mg of aromasin is very low. Im sure your next blood work will show higher E2. I would suggest at least 12.5mg daily with your current cycle, and then adjust based on blood work.

[Slacker78]

No paranoid. In my first blood work after the first week of cycle, red blood count, hemoglobin and HCT was perfectly in range. Only MCHC was slightly higher ( 0.20 points over the upper limit, so 35,2 ). But without other alterations in the other parameters, it's meanless, it's just more average hemoblogin value in the blood.

Today i felt hot too. I think this is related to E2 that is increasing; infact i'm doing HCG 250ui/E3.5D and this increment estrogens as we know.

@Vash The Stampede: in the first week, 6,25mg/ED of Aromasin, lowered my E2 to < 5 pg/ml. It shuts down my E2 even this that low dosage; so i remember i started to take the same dosage EOD and i felt better. But i suspect now, i'm in the 3° week - due gear accumulation in the blood stream - it's not enough anymore.... what do you think it about ?

[Marsoc]

I think it might have been due to you working out possibly. Ya know. Getting that blood flowing

[diesel101]

Do you take a pre workout and if so have you switched brands?
Certain pre workouts make me turn red.

[AR's King Silabolin]

500 Deca...didnt see your DA..forget to mention or try to run without it?

[jstone]

500 Deca...didnt see your DA..forget to mention or try to run without it?

For most DA is not needed if e2 is kept in check. I keep it on hand but rarely use it at all.

[KINGKONG]

My face gets red on cycle as well..I always thought it was blood pressure related but it's always normal when checked sooo I don't know?keep us posted on what you find..

[Slacker78]

Sillabolin.... this is the first week i've increased DECA to 500mg/w... i don't use DA if i don't see prolactin increasing... and i have some doubt my reddish it's to it related. Today i will do a blood work and i will inform you it about.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Sillabolin.... this is the first week i've increased DECA to 500mg/w... i don't use DA if i don't see prolactin increasing... and i have some doubt my reddish it's to it related. Today i will do a blood work and i will inform you it about.

Agree. The reddish is something else. Just thougth. 500 deca is not low dose. Most vets in here suggest da when running 500 mg 19nor. I would too. I ran 250 mg deca this summer and felt better when i added .125 mg caber.
I often get the blushing sensation in face when juicing, specially on tren.
Ive asked the forum and i think i remember the knowledgeable/vets pointed out rbc/hct/BP as possible causes.
But i havent found a straigth answer. If BP and hct is ok, i like to think its not very dangerous.
But i have red deca is the worst hctincreaser. But also red its mild on hct.

[Slacker78]

Agree. The reddish is something else. Just thougth. 500 deca is not low dose. Most vets in here suggest da when running 500 mg 19nor. I would too. I ran 250 mg deca this summer and felt better when i added .125 mg caber.
I often get the blushing sensation in face when juicing, specially on tren.
Ive asked the forum and i think i remember the knowledgeable/vets pointed out rbc/hct/BP as possible causes.
But i havent found a straigth answer. If BP and hct is ok, i like to think its not very dangerous.
But i have red deca is the worst hctincreaser. But also red its mild on hct.

Personally, in past i've cycled with 250mg of Deca for 12 weeks and my Hct did not increase to critical level. Instead i've noticed it increased quickly, when i used short esters ( Test Prop ). My cycle is just started and my hct was ~44% at first blood work i did around 10 days ago. But this morning i will verify it with bw. I will update you later.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Personally, in past i've cycled with 250mg of Deca for 12 weeks and my Hct did not increase to critical level. Instead i've noticed it increased quickly, when i used short esters ( Test Prop ). My cycle is just started and my hct was ~44% at first blood work i did around 10 days ago. But this morning i will verify it with bw. I will update you later.

44 is good. Give you lots of space

[Slacker78]

In every case, Sillabolin, i would prefer to use Prami (D2 - D3 agonist ). It has less sides and a short half-life so it could be more manageable.

[Slacker78]

Blood work done. Within few hours my analyst friend, will give me the results. i'm in the 3° week right now and i didn't inject any weekly gear dose still. I tested prolactin as well, but my interest is towards rbc/hct/hm and E2.

[hammerheart]

In every case, Sillabolin, i would prefer to use Prami (D2 - D3 agonist ). It has less sides and a short half-life so it could be more manageable.

Yes probably the best DA of choice, provided you tolerate it. Have you been able to obtain it?

[Slacker78]

Yes probably the best DA of choice, provided you tolerate it. Have you been able to obtain it?

Yes, no problem to get it in pharmaceutical quality.

[hammerheart]

Yes, no problem to get it in pharmaceutical quality.

That is what I was looking for, no research chemical BS.

Is that from your friendly pharmacist or you just have to walk in a pharmacy and ask? I did this so many times but never dared to ask for anti-parkinson drugs, lol.

[Slacker78]

That is what I was looking for, no research chemical BS.

Is that from your friendly pharmacist or you just have to walk in a pharmacy and ask? I did this so many times but never dared to ask for anti-parkinson drugs, lol.

Mine is a friendly pharmacist. But, sometimes he complained with me because he doesnt' know AAS world and its usage... he thinks i'm risking about my health but on the other side he knows, i'm one who does not take drugs without knowing what i'm doing, so definitively, he trust of me. Actually, just for DECA i have to go towards black market, because in Italy it was classified as narcotic stuff and its release, is strictly rigorous under the law profile; in synthesis, it's like to sell morphine.

[Slacker78]

Ok, my analyst confirm E2 is too much high ( ~46,9 pg/ml ) as my sweetspot is ~26.5 pg/ml. HCT is ~45.3% and prolactin is ~3.8.

My issues was due to E2. High estrogens, raise body temperature and BP; i felt respiratory issues too in the meanwhile, and this is high E2 related.

@Vash The Stampede: you had reason ( and me too ).

I will increase Aromasin to 12.5mg/ED, cause hormonal load in blood stream is increasing and so, the E2 conversion too. It's evident that, regardless individual estrogens rate conversion, long esters, take a little before to increase E2 conversion at full capacity.

Thank you for your support, guys. STRENGTH BE WITH YOU

[Mr.BB]

In every case, Sillabolin, i would prefer to use Prami (D2 - D3 agonist ). It has less sides and a short half-life so it could be more manageable.

I disagree. Cabergoline has a lot less side effects, it was actually why it appeared on the market. For prolactin control caber works very well with no sides (for most ppl).
Prami is mostly used for Parkinson's depression, being d2 and d3 agonist makes it a stronger dopaminergic. We dont need that to reduce prolactin... In fact, the less you mess with you dopamine the better.

[Slacker78]

I disagree. Cabergoline has a lot less side effects, it was actually why it appeared on the market. For prolactin control caber works very well with no sides (for most ppl).
Prami is mostly used for Parkinson's depression, being d2 and d3 agonist makes it a stronger dopaminergic. We dont need that to reduce prolactin... In fact, the less you mess with you dopamine the better.

The fact Prami act on 2 receptors than Caber ( only D2 ) it's not meaningful to state it's prone to more sides. Yes, it's possible having sides even with Prami, that's reasonable. For what i've searched and read, caber it's more prone to raise sides. It could be useful, to find some further serious study which compare the 2 drugs results and sides.

[hammerheart]

Let's not forget caber is an ergot derivate, and got strong affinity with 5-HT2 receptors, which is the least thing we want here, speaking of sides. Pramipexole makes a safe choice and it's unless we go higher than needed on dose should be relatively side-friendly. Some ppl report strong nausea from it but it's something I'd not worry about when evaluating a psycothropic med.

[Slacker78]

Let's not forget caber is an ergot derivate, and got strong affinity with 5-HT2 receptors, which is the least thing we want here, speaking of sides. Pramipexole makes a safe choice and it's unless we go higher than needed on dose should be relatively side-friendly. Some ppl report strong nausea from it but it's something I'd not worry about when evaluating a psycothropic med.

Well said !

[TestoSuper]

Ok, my analyst confirm E2 is too much high ( ~46,9 pg/ml ) as my sweetspot is ~26.5 pg/ml. HCT is ~45.3% and prolactin is ~3.8.

My issues was due to E2. High estrogens, raise body temperature and BP; i felt respiratory issues too in the meanwhile, and this is high E2 related.

@Vash The Stampede: you had reason ( and me too ).

I will increase Aromasin to 12.5mg/ED, cause hormonal load in blood stream is increasing and so, the E2 conversion too. It's evident that, regardless individual estrogens rate conversion, long esters, take a little before to increase E2 conversion at full capacity.

Thank you for your support, guys. STRENGTH BE WITH YOU

Hallo Slacker,
interesting about the changes in E2... but how can you have prolactin so low?? you are lucky!! or maybe it may rise more slowly later in the cycle?

[AR's King Silabolin]

Ok, my analyst confirm E2 is too much high ( ~46,9 pg/ml ) as my sweetspot is ~26.5 pg/ml. HCT is ~45.3% and prolactin is ~3.8.

My issues was due to E2. High estrogens, raise body temperature and BP; i felt respiratory issues too in the meanwhile, and this is high E2 related.

@Vash The Stampede: you had reason ( and me too ).

I will increase Aromasin to 12.5mg/ED, cause hormonal load in blood stream is increasing and so, the E2 conversion too. It's evident that, regardless individual estrogens rate conversion, long esters, take a little before to increase E2 conversion at full capacity.

Thank you for your support, guys. STRENGTH BE WITH YOU

Stil....have u run 500 19nor without da before?

[Slacker78]

Hallo Slacker,
interesting about the changes in E2... but how can you have prolactin so low?? you are lucky!! or maybe it may rise more slowly later in the cycle?

Consider i just did 750mg total of DECA in 15 days ( 2 weeks with Test E 250mg/w as base ) and, more important, at beginning my E2 was lowered too much due i assumed Aromasin 12.5mg/ED too much early. As you know, controlling E2 is your first defense line for prolactin; just now, i can state my E2 was high ( really to the upper side range but out of my sweet spot ), not before. So, these 2 things, could be explain why prolaction is so low.

[Slacker78]

Stil....have u run 500 19nor without da before?

Not 500, just 250mg/w in my first cycle ~2 year ago. i reached 500mg since few days, at my 2° week, and now i'm on 3°. I will recheck my blood parameters after 15 days by now and i will see where i am.

[TestoSuper]

Consider i just did 750mg total of DECA in 15 days ( 2 weeks with Test E 250mg/w as base ) and, more important, at beginning my E2 was lowered too much due i assumed Aromasin 12.5mg/ED too much early. As you know, controlling E2 is your first defense line for prolactin; just now, i can state my E2 was high ( really to the upper side range but out of my sweet spot ), not before. So, these 2 things, could be explain why prolaction is so low.

Ok clear... Update us about upcoming bloodwork!!

[Slacker78]

Ok clear... Update us about upcoming bloodwork!!

You too, about your prolactin issues

[TestoSuper]

sure.. I just started caber at 0.25 x 2/ week .. in 4/6 weeks I'll do bloodwork again!
(in this days I got some spontaneous erections during the day, I never had before)
Perhaps this bodes well ...

[Slacker78]

sure.. I just started caber at 0.25 x 2/ week .. in 4/6 weeks I'll do bloodwork again!
(in this days I got some spontaneous erections during the day, I never had before)
Perhaps this bodes well ...

That's a great evidence ! DAs are powerful. See you soon

[TestoSuper]

thanks... see you soon!!

[Vash the Stampede]

Ok, my analyst confirm E2 is too much high ( ~46,9 pg/ml ) as my sweetspot is ~26.5 pg/ml. HCT is ~45.3% and prolactin is ~3.8.

My issues was due to E2. High estrogens, raise body temperature and BP; i felt respiratory issues too in the meanwhile, and this is high E2 related.

@Vash The Stampede: you had reason ( and me too ).

I will increase Aromasin to 12.5mg/ED, cause hormonal load in blood stream is increasing and so, the E2 conversion too. It's evident that, regardless individual estrogens rate conversion, long esters, take a little before to increase E2 conversion at full capacity.

Thank you for your support, guys. STRENGTH BE WITH YOU

I told you so! Haha

[hammerheart]

Ok, my analyst confirm E2 is too much high ( ~46,9 pg/ml ) as my sweetspot is ~26.5 pg/ml. HCT is ~45.3% and prolactin is ~3.8.

My issues was due to E2. High estrogens, raise body temperature and BP; i felt respiratory issues too in the meanwhile, and this is high E2 related.

@Vash The Stampede: you had reason ( and me too ).

I will increase Aromasin to 12.5mg/ED, cause hormonal load in blood stream is increasing and so, the E2 conversion too. It's evident that, regardless individual estrogens rate conversion, long esters, take a little before to increase E2 conversion at full capacity.

Thank you for your support, guys. STRENGTH BE WITH YOU

Mine is at 56 pg/ml (from TRT) and might be a bit high, even though I wasn't experiencing symptoms until last week. PRL is high at 54 ng/ml and I hope is from the estradiol, even though I really doubt it... I don't fancy AIs as they mess with my lipids and I don't feel well on them, so the natural option was to lower Test.

Caber should arrive this week, I will let ya know of the results

[Bodacious]

Slacker is that E2 reading, ultra senstive or just the regular E2?

[Slacker78]

Slacker is that E2 reading, ultra senstive or just the regular E2?

Not, is not ultra sensitive. To overcome this limit, i did several E2 essays in the same lab when i was off cycle, to know my natural E2 sweet spot that is ~26.5 pg/ml. For my experience, i feel better when my E2 go lower than it's higher. This is the trick i used to overcome the impossibility to find a lab which use ultra sensitive E2 essay. Doing blood work before cycling is very important for these issues.

@Bizzarro: i'm agree. On TRT, adjusting Test to avoid AI is the wiser choice, being TRT will last more than an AAS cycle.

[Mr.BB]

Let's not forget caber is an ergot derivate, and got strong affinity with 5-HT2 receptors, which is the least thing we want here, speaking of sides. Pramipexole makes a safe choice and it's unless we go higher than needed on dose should be relatively side-friendly. Some ppl report strong nausea from it but it's something I'd not worry about when evaluating a psycothropic med.

Can you explain in terms we can understand why would that be important, and the sides and percentages associated with this issue?

And, in your own words, why is nowadays cabergoline the drug of choice to deal with prolactinomas, and basically anything to do with high prolactin, which include cessation of breast feeding etc? Why dont they use pramipexole?

Have you actually used yourself any of this DAs?

[hammerheart]

Can you explain in terms we can understand why would that be important, and the sides and percentages associated with this issue?

And, in your own words, why is nowadays cabergoline the drug of choice to deal with prolactinomas, and basically anything to do with high prolactin, which include cessation of breast feeding etc? Why dont they use pramipexole?

Have you actually used yourself any of this DAs?

Sorry for the "technical" dictionary.

Myself no, not yet, will test caber soon, I've tried piribedil, which is potent but short-lived, I'd also try pramipexole and ropinirole but I cannot get hold of them.

Because is the most efficient antiprolactinemic available. Any DAs will affect distinct brains portions differently from another, and those most potent in the region of interest when we speak of prolactin (the hypothalamic tubero-infundibular) are the ergot-derivative bromocriptine and cabergoline. Bromo is the worst DA we can think of, a very old drug used for prolactinomas and as an anti-galactogogue, worst rate of sides, including psychiatric, fibrosis, GI, CV and short t/2. The discover of cabergoline represented an important step in the field of dopamine agonists, displays a safe profile, it requires less frequent administrations than bromo, and has a fair rate of sides for the dosages needed to counteracting prolactin.

If we were to do the same with pramipexole (which is D3-preferring; activation of D2 subtype is what we need here), we would need a dosage high enough to have a rate sides higher than with the dose needed with caber.

THAT, speaking of prolactinomas, which are a different beast than the issue we are dealing with here, ie. AAS induced (very) mild hyperprolactinemia

Another potential issue with caber is affinity (and activity as an agonist) with receptor sites other than dopamine one, and that would be serotonin receptors. It should be brainer these are intimately implicated in neuroendocrine, mood, cognition and overall functioning, and they are also expressed in the periphery - just have a look the table in the wiki.

Ergot derivatives are also associated with increased risk of cardiac valvular disease (due to activity at serotonin 5-HT2B receptor) and pulmonary fibrosis - but OK these are usually due to long-term use.

It's more a personal remark than anything, but I'd rather try prami first over caber as the dosage needed is lowish anyway for the use we are concerned with here, since it displays little to no affinity with sites different from dopamine receptors.

And then let the docs decide what's best in clinical settings...

[numbere]

If I had the choice I'd take caber over prami every time.

The twice a week dosage of caber is more convenient.

Plus spend one night on your bathroom floor puking your face off and you'll have a different view on prami.