Test + Tren IGF1 Question

[Chicagotarsier]

Seeing if anyone has bloodwork on cycle that would reflect IGF1 levels at

Trt Test Dose and 300 Tren

500 Test Dose and 300 Tren

Doesnt have to be exact but want some base knowledge before going into my next cycle. Want to know if intermediate levels of Tren absoloutely replace Testosterone IGF-1 increase @ 500+.


Cycle Steroids

Test E Tren E
Weeks 1-10 TRT 300mg/ml
Weeks 11-15 500 mg/ml 300mg/ml
Weeks 16-20 1500 mg/ml 300mg/ml

Sliding Test level to measure sides increase due to Estrogen. Yes I will be on Aromasin but we all know test still gives water retention which impacts blood pressure.

I want to see IGF-1 levels with the changing Testosterone level. I theorize there will be a small bump moving to 500 and the move to 1500 will be barely noticeable for IGF-1.

I currently use 80 ml Test E and 50 ml Tren E per week for TrT. I cannot begin to state how wonderful a little Tren is in my TrT routine.

[DocToxin8]

Eh, you're using ml And mg around each other, and in a way that's a little unclear.

But as for your question its interesting to see how IGF levels will be affected.
Any chance you can do blood work on this yourself?

Tren is a more powerful androgen, so I'd think it release more IGF, but most importantly is the localized IGF production. And that's difficult to measure.

[Chicagotarsier]

I will do the bloods for sure. Just wondered if anyone had some bloodwork to give me an idea of what to see beyond guessing. Basically everyone now says low test high tren. I am a believer growth comes from IGF-1 mainly. Want to know if the low test part trying to avoid sides is actually worth it.

University of Florida is about to release their Trenbolone TrT vs Test TrT results and I have a feeling a lot of things are going to change with rock solid figures

[DocToxin8]

I will do the bloods for sure. Just wondered if anyone had some bloodwork to give me an idea of what to see beyond guessing. Basically everyone now says low test high tren. I am a believer growth comes from IGF-1 mainly. Want to know if the low test part trying to avoid sides is actually worth it.

University of Florida is about to release their Trenbolone TrT vs Test TrT results and I have a feeling a lot of things are going to change with rock solid figures

Intresting, post a link when it's released. Would be a good read.
There's systemic and local IGF1,
both seems to play their part.

I think c17aa orals like DBOL has such a synergistic effect with injectables partly because of their IGF1 releasing property.

[hammerheart]

University of Florida is about to release their Trenbolone TrT vs Test TrT results and I have a feeling a lot of things are going to change with rock solid figures

Really? Link?

I'd be also interested in pre vs on caber IGF-1 levels.

[Chicagotarsier]

The test completed multiple years ago but it has taken a long time to get the result papers together. Most likely Big Pharma doing all they can to keep the info off the market

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21266670

[hammerheart]

The test completed multiple years ago but it has taken a long time to get the result papers together. Most likely Big Pharma doing all they can to keep the info off the market

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21266670

TRT with TREN is indeed an interesting argument the issue is it would be "spurious" comparing to Test administration because of complete lack of aromatization and low affinity for specific sites such as bone tissue where, like the above study suggests, Tren only appears to offer partial protection from bone loss comparing to T.

Myself I'm considering to use use less T and rather add a bit of Tren and see if it's tolerable long term.

/OT I've read your other post regarding underdosed UGL Tren, would you be so kind to pm the data?

[BRUTAL]

interesting, thinking of tren-undecanote for those who tolerate it long term trt-wise

https://www.steroid.com/Dynabolan.php

[hammerheart]

interesting, thinking of tren-undecanote for those who tolerate it long term trt-wise

https://www.steroid.com/Dynabolan.php

Maybe we could get the Chinese batch custom raws and attach esters such as decanoate and undecylenate to Tren base.

Tren undecanoate... lol

[Marcus G]

I belive tren makes your body more sensitive to igf-1 and also increases nutrient partitioning

[DocToxin8]

I'm not seeing anything new here.
Tren is an anabolic steroid with a high androgenic effect,
but it is still an anabolic steroid; and thus less androgenic than testosterone.

It does not 5 alpha reduce to a stronger androgen, but is nearly as strong as DHT in itself.
Neither does it convert to estrogen.

That it has less impact on the prostate and more myotrophic effect than testosterone is pretty fucking obvious, that's why anabolic steroids were developed in the first place.
Nandrolone is also a SARM as such, more so than tren, as it actually converts to a milder androgen in prostate, scalp and tissues rich in 5-AR.

That trenbolone would be a valuable addition to TRT as a myotrophic agent is obvious. At least if one could discern what negative impacts it would have on lipids, etc compared to a higher test dose.

I just don't see what's new here.

But I've only read the abstract.

[MuscleScience]

I'm not seeing anything new here.
Tren is an anabolic steroid with a high androgenic effect,
but it is still an anabolic steroid; and thus less androgenic than testosterone.

It does not 5 alpha reduce to a stronger androgen, but is nearly as strong as DHT in itself.
Neither does it convert to estrogen.

That it has less impact on the prostate and more myotrophic effect than testosterone is pretty fucking obvious, that's why anabolic steroids were developed in the first place.
Nandrolone is also a SARM as such, more so than tren, as it actually converts to a milder androgen in prostate, scalp and tissues rich in 5-AR.

That trenbolone would be a valuable addition to TRT as a myotrophic agent is obvious. At least if one could discern what negative impacts it would have on lipids, etc compared to a higher test dose.

I just don't see what's new here.

But I've only read the abstract.

I read some papers a few years back that the author described Tren as the
Ultimate SARM.

[hammerheart]

I'm not seeing anything new here.
Tren is an anabolic steroid with a high androgenic effect,
but it is still an anabolic steroid; and thus less androgenic than testosterone.

It does not 5 alpha reduce to a stronger androgen, but is nearly as strong as DHT in itself.
Neither does it convert to estrogen.

That it has less impact on the prostate and more myotrophic effect than testosterone is pretty fucking obvious, that's why anabolic steroids were developed in the first place.
Nandrolone is also a SARM as such, more so than tren, as it actually converts to a milder androgen in prostate, scalp and tissues rich in 5-AR.

That trenbolone would be a valuable addition to TRT as a myotrophic agent is obvious. At least if one could discern what negative impacts it would have on lipids, etc compared to a higher test dose.

I just don't see what's new here.

But I've only read the abstract.

Maybe nothing new in the underground but I'm sure you will understand things works differently in the academic and medical fields (still an old-ish article though).

As for Tren being less androgenic than Test I'd tend to disagree, or better, I believe it to be tissue dependent, otherwise the compound won't be notorious for being harsher on the brain than Test, especially in the regards of aggression, libido and confidence all of which are considered to be androgen-dependent traits.

[MuscleScience]

Maybe nothing new in the underground but I'm sure you will understand things works differently in the academic and medical fields (still an old-ish article though).

As for Tren being less androgenic than Test I'd tend to disagree, or better, I believe it to be tissue dependent, otherwise the compound won't be notorious for being harsher on the brain than Test, especially in the regards of aggression, libido and confidence all of which are considered to be androgen-dependent traits.

I think the talk about Harshness is urban myth or Bro science. I mean shut down is shut down. Whether you are suppressed with Test, or Deca or Tren, what does it matter? Maybe having prolactin sides versus E2 sides is perceived as more harsh, I don't know where it came from.

[DocToxin8]

I think the talk about Harshness is urban myth or Bro science. I mean shut down is shut down. Whether you are suppressed with Test, or Deca or Tren, what does it matter? Maybe having prolactin sides versus E2 sides is perceived as more harsh, I don't know where it came from.

That would be interesting to study.

Even my endo thought tren was the devil as far as fertility goes,
but that doesn't mean he thought it harder to recover from.

One thing is for sure though,
Progestins shut you down!

So while some might not be totally shut down on test alone,
(In trials were it's used as a anti fertility/prevention drug)
Test + a progestin is surer to cause azospermia.

But if it's harder to recover once it's out of the system is another matter.
I don't know.

It might figure that if you manage to keep LH and FSH just a tiny bit alive,
instead of at nil all the time, recovery (of the pituitary) might be easier,
But I'd love to see a study on that.

[DocToxin8]

Maybe nothing new in the underground but I'm sure you will understand things works differently in the academic and medical fields (still an old-ish article though).

As for Tren being less androgenic than Test I'd tend to disagree, or better, I believe it to be tissue dependent, otherwise the compound won't be notorious for being harsher on the brain than Test, especially in the regards of aggression, libido and confidence all of which are considered to be androgen-dependent traits.

In the brain there's at least aromatase, probably 5-AR too,
but since tren is nearly DHT (in AR affinity), it stands to reason it should be more androgenic in the brain that T.

[MuscleScience]

That would be interesting to study.

Even my endo thought tren was the devil as far as fertility goes,
but that doesn't mean he thought it harder to recover from.

One thing is for sure though,
Progestins shut you down!

So while some might not be totally shut down on test alone,
(In trials were it's used as a anti fertility/prevention drug)
Test + a progestin is surer to cause azospermia.

But if it's harder to recover once it's out of the system is another matter.
I don't know.

It might figure that if you manage to keep LH and FSH just a tiny bit alive,
instead of at nil all the time, recovery (of the pituitary) might be easier,
But I'd love to see a study on that.

That brings up a good point about male contraceptives. I would think that this
Would have been studied in the last 30 years at some point. If it does indeed cause complete shut down I would think it would be all over the journals if it was studied in that capacity.

[DocToxin8]

I know that when they did studies on trestolone as birth control,
(Which is also a progestin), they also added in a LHRH agonist to really cause complete shut down.
The long acting LhRH agonist causes the pituitary to become unresponsive to LHRH, which is normally secreted in pulses, so that all LH secretion stops.