What age did you start trt? And what is your protocol for hcg to stay fertile?

[daveanthony]

I have yet to see any convincing evidence that there is a need to cycle HCG while on TRT. You have few options if you want to maintain fertility, but even without the desire to maintain fertility (that ship has long since sailed for some of us), there is good reason for using HCG and not cycle it.

What about the whole argument that it will desensitize if you run it for too long. I watched a video dylan gimili (i take everything he says with a grain of salt) but he insisted that cycling hcg for 4 weeks at a time is the right way and using it continuously for long periods of time its a very bad idea. Heres the link

https://youtu.be/uQnRt3rTqac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hammerheart]

What about the whole argument that it will desensitize if you run it for too long. I watched a video dylan gimili (i take everything he says with a grain of salt) but he insisted that cycling hcg for 4 weeks at a time is the right way and using it continuously for long periods of time its a very bad idea. Heres the link

https://youtu.be/uQnRt3rTqac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That guy is notorious over this board because of the poorly advice he gives. On TRT you use relatively small doses of HCG (250IU 2x weekly) , that's usually enough to prevent atrophy from disuse and hopefully help with fertility. Desensitization might be true with prolonged administration of very high doses, if anything.

Myself I got on TRT since 24, no doctor warned me about fertility issues but I don't care, in fact I'm looking into ways other than surgery to kill my sperm count, I should get it checked soon to see where it's at.

[daveanthony]

That guy is notorious over this board because of the poorly advice he gives. On TRT you use relatively small doses of HCG (250IU 2x weekly) , that's usually enough to prevent atrophy from disuse and hopefully help with fertility. Desensitization might be true with prolonged administration of very high doses, if anything.

Myself I got on TRT since 24, no doctor warned me about fertility issues but I don't care, in fact I'm looking into ways other than surgery to kill my sperm count, I should get it checked soon to see where it's at.

What are the drawbacks on starting trt that young from your experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hammerheart]

Hmm so it appears that you also make the argument that continuous use of HGC will raise E2 levels.

I didn't mean that, HCG is an LH mimic but it acts a bit differently... LH is released in a pulsatile fashion from the pituitary, while HCG will have sustained levels due to much longer survival time in blood. This might bring E2 levels up due to continuous stimulation, but it isn't usually an issue with the low maintenance dosages used in a TRT protocol.

What are the drawbacks on starting trt that young from your experience?

If you need it then you need it, no way around at that point, the more you go with low T the worse, especially under 25.

I'm almost 28 now and I'm still struggling with sexual and overall functioning.

[prenes]

will an AI help to combat the high levels brought on by HGC or does it only effect the E2 levels from exogen test?

[daveanthony]

I didn't mean that, HCG is an LH mimic but it acts a bit differently... LH is released in a pulsatile fashion from the pituitary, while HCG will have sustained levels due to much longer survival time in blood. This might bring E2 levels up due to continuous stimulation, but it isn't usually an issue with the low maintenance dosages used in a TRT protocol.



If you need it then you need it, no way around at that point, the more you go with low T the worse, especially under 25.

I'm almost 28 now and I'm still struggling with sexual and overall functioning.

And are you using hcg? I found on a test cycle my libido was shit without hcg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hammerheart]

And are you using hcg? I found on a test cycle my libido was shit without hcg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No HCG but I do use some exogenous progesterone in order to get mood and libido up. I feel virtually asexuated without progesterone.

[Youthful55guy]

No HCG but I do use some exogenous progesterone in order to get mood and libido up. I feel virtually asexuated without progesterone.

FYI: to all reading this thread. As Bizzaro and I have discussed in other threads, you must be EXTREMELY careful when using exogenous progesterone (P4)in a male TRT protocol. And this goes for synthetic anabolic steroids with progestin-like activity that are often stacked by bodybuilders. We all know and understand that high E2 can cause gynecomastia, but it is much more potent in this regard when progesterone levels are elevated. I believe this is the root of the paranoia I see in so many threads in this and other forums of high E2. Yes, high E2 is not good, but it gets a much worse reputation because of bodybuilder abuse of anabolic steroids without understand what they are doing. In the quest for big muscles, they often layer (stack) several anabolic hormones on top of each other without knowing how they interact.

Some anabolic steroids also have progesterone like activity. If you stack these with high levels of testosterone and don't control the conversion of T to E2, you are ripe for beginning development of gynecomastia. If your prolactin levels get out of control, you are in for a SEVERE case of gynecomastia (e.g., lactation). This is exactly what happens during the 3rd trimester of pregnancy. The placenta is producing very high levels of both E2 and P4 and at the same time producing a hormone called Placental Lactogen, which has both prolactin and growth hormone activity.

[Youthful55guy]

What about the whole argument that it will desensitize if you run it for too long. I watched a video dylan gimili (i take everything he says with a grain of salt) but he insisted that cycling hcg for 4 weeks at a time is the right way and using it continuously for long periods of time its a very bad idea. Heres the link

https://youtu.be/uQnRt3rTqac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I couldn't get past the first minute of the video. The guy obviously does not understand reproductive endocrinology. He's also talking about HCG use in a steroid PCT, which is very different than long term use in TRT. Bottom line, is that there are no published studies that I know of that implicate HCG in desensitizing either the Leydig cells or the Sertoli Cells in the testicles. If you have some evidence please share it. Desensitization is a myth of Bro science passed down in the locker rooms and now the internet by idiots like the guy in the video. Kind of like our Toddler In Chief, you tell a lie convincingly enough and repeat it over and over, a certain percentage of weak minded people will believe it as the truth. I've posted numerous times on what I think is the origin of this myth, so as far as I'm concerned this is a non-issue.

[daveanthony]

I couldn't get past the first minute of the video. The guy obviously does not understand reproductive endocrinology. He's also talking about HCG use in a steroid PCT, which is very different than long term use in TRT. Bottom line, is that there are no published studies that I know of that implicate HCG in desensitizing either the Leydig cells or the Sertoli Cells in the testicles. If you have some evidence please share it. Desensitization is a myth of Bro science passed down in the locker rooms and now the internet by idiots like the guy in the video. Kind of like our Toddler In Chief, you tell a lie convincingly enough and repeat it over and over, a certain percentage of weak minded people will believe it as the truth. I've posted numerous times on what I think is the origin of this myth, so as far as I'm concerned this is a non-issue.

Yea he goes into the trt discussion on long term use, as i said i dont trust the guy he just seemed set on the fact it could cause damage in the long haul without breaks. Thanks for the info !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk