Blood Work

[JuliusPleaser]

So I posted several posts about me coming off cycle dosages and trying to get my wife pregnant.

I decided to lower even my TRT dose from 200mg (which gave me levels of 1500), to 100mg CYP; I've been doing GH 4iu ED; I had some left over cComid and threw 50mg ED, and was blasting 2500iu 2x of HCG per week for the first month, but then reduced it to 2000iu per week for the last 2-3 weeks...

Here are my results; my blood was drawn on an empty stomach on a Weds. I take my Test shots Mon and Thurs. I take my GH ED every morning 4ius. My HCG has been 1000mcg Monday and Thurs.

CREATININE (0.60-1.35) 0.98 mg/dL N
EGFR NON AFR AMERICAN (>=60) 101 mL/min/1.73m2 N
EGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN (>=60) 117 mL/min/1.73m2 N
AST (10-40) 82 U/L H
ALT (9-46) 102 U/L H
TSH (0.40-4.50) 1.34 mIU/L N
PROTEIN, TOTAL (6.1-8.1) 6.9 g/dL N
ALBUMIN (3.6-5.1) 4.6 g/dL N
GLOBULIN (1.9-3.7) 2.3 g/dL (calc) N
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO (1.0-2.5) 2.0 (calc) N
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL (0.2-1.2) 0.5 mg/dL N
BILIRUBIN,DIRECT (< = 0.2) 0.2 mg/dL N
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE (40-115) 51 U/L N
AST (10-40) 82 U/L H
ALT (9-46) 102 U/L H
BILIRUBIN,INDIRECT (0.2-1.2) 0.3 mg/dL N
HEMOGLOBIN (13.2-17.1) 16.8 g/dL N
HEMATOCRIT (38.5-50.0) 48.9 % N
HCG,TOTAL,QL (Negative) See notes. N
FSH (1.6-8.0) <0.7 mIU/mL L
LH (1.5-9.3) <0.2 mIU/mL L
PROLACTIN (2.0-18.0) 11.3 ng/mL N
ESTRADIOL (< OR = 39) 50 pg/mL H
DHEA SULFATE (106-464) 379 mcg/dL N

TESTOSTERONE,T,MALE,ADULT (250-827) 577 ng/dL N
71200000 (None) See notes. N
ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM (60-190) 354.6 pg/mL H
Z-SCORE (MALE) (-2.0 - +2.0) 2.3 SD H
IGF-I,LC/MS (53-331) 384 ng/mL H
TESTOSTERONE, FREE (46.0-224.0) 183.4 pg/mL N


Now what's crazy is, I've been having ED and other issues when I lowered the HCG to 2000mcg a week, and notice how is says LH and FSH are low???

My Test levels are good range.

My IGF is high (who said chinese kits are no good lol)

My estrogren is way too high, so I recently added 1mg of Arimidex Mon and Thursday after this test came in... hopefully this solves the issue of ED.

I don't get why my LH and FSH are low if I'm blasting HCG...Maybe i need to go back to 5000iu a week?

Thanks.

[Youthful55guy]

So I posted several posts about me coming off cycle dosages and trying to get my wife pregnant.

I decided to lower even my TRT dose from 200mg (which gave me levels of 1500), to 100mg CYP; I've been doing GH 4iu ED; I had some left over cComid and threw 50mg ED, and was blasting 2500iu 2x of HCG per week for the first month, but then reduced it to 2000iu per week for the last 2-3 weeks...

Here are my results; my blood was drawn on an empty stomach on a Weds. I take my Test shots Mon and Thurs. I take my GH ED every morning 4ius. My HCG has been 1000mcg Monday and Thurs.

CREATININE (0.60-1.35) 0.98 mg/dL N
EGFR NON AFR AMERICAN (>=60) 101 mL/min/1.73m2 N
EGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN (>=60) 117 mL/min/1.73m2 N
AST (10-40) 82 U/L H
ALT (9-46) 102 U/L H
TSH (0.40-4.50) 1.34 mIU/L N
PROTEIN, TOTAL (6.1-8.1) 6.9 g/dL N
ALBUMIN (3.6-5.1) 4.6 g/dL N
GLOBULIN (1.9-3.7) 2.3 g/dL (calc) N
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO (1.0-2.5) 2.0 (calc) N
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL (0.2-1.2) 0.5 mg/dL N
BILIRUBIN,DIRECT (< = 0.2) 0.2 mg/dL N
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE (40-115) 51 U/L N
AST (10-40) 82 U/L H
ALT (9-46) 102 U/L H
BILIRUBIN,INDIRECT (0.2-1.2) 0.3 mg/dL N
HEMOGLOBIN (13.2-17.1) 16.8 g/dL N
HEMATOCRIT (38.5-50.0) 48.9 % N
HCG,TOTAL,QL (Negative) See notes. N
FSH (1.6-8.0) <0.7 mIU/mL L
LH (1.5-9.3) <0.2 mIU/mL L
PROLACTIN (2.0-18.0) 11.3 ng/mL N
ESTRADIOL (< OR = 39) 50 pg/mL H
DHEA SULFATE (106-464) 379 mcg/dL N

TESTOSTERONE,T,MALE,ADULT (250-827) 577 ng/dL N
71200000 (None) See notes. N
ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM (60-190) 354.6 pg/mL H
Z-SCORE (MALE) (-2.0 - +2.0) 2.3 SD H
IGF-I,LC/MS (53-331) 384 ng/mL H
TESTOSTERONE, FREE (46.0-224.0) 183.4 pg/mL N


Now what's crazy is, I've been having ED and other issues when I lowered the HCG to 2000mcg a week, and notice how is says LH and FSH are low???

My Test levels are good range.

My IGF is high (who said chinese kits are no good lol)

My estrogren is way too high, so I recently added 1mg of Arimidex Mon and Thursday after this test came in... hopefully this solves the issue of ED.

I don't get why my LH and FSH are low if I'm blasting HCG...Maybe i need to go back to 5000iu a week?

Thanks.

Because HCG is not LH or FSH. These tests are sensitive such that there is no cross-reactivity with HCG. Yes, HCG has LH- and FSH-like activity, but it is not LH or FSH.

I'd be a little concerned too about your liver labs. AST and ALT are way high. Are you (or have you recently) used any oral steroids? NSAAIDs? If not, you may want to look for other reasons the liver labs are high.

Regarding the ED, I doubt it has anything to do with lowering the dose of HCG. 2000 IU/wk is still a very stout dose. I suspect it may be an E issue, although it is not that far out of range.

Interestingly, your test results throw a wrench into my theory that Clomid can be used as a replacement for HCG while on TRT. At 50 mg per day, you should at least see some LH/FSH if it was doing it's job.

[JuliusPleaser]

Well I just started it like 2 weeks or so ago and it was an old bottle, so could be not as potent as it was; although I think expiration dates are nonsense lol.

My doctor said my liver was fine; during my cycle I was taking liver protection supplements.

[JuliusPleaser]

Because HCG is not LH or FSH. These tests are sensitive such that there is no cross-reactivity with HCG. Yes, HCG has LH- and FSH-like activity, but it is not LH or FSH.

I'd be a little concerned too about your liver labs. AST and ALT are way high. Are you (or have you recently) used any oral steroids? NSAAIDs? If not, you may want to look for other reasons the liver labs are high.

Regarding the ED, I doubt it has anything to do with lowering the dose of HCG. 2000 IU/wk is still a very stout dose. I suspect it may be an E issue, although it is not that far out of range.

Interestingly, your test results throw a wrench into my theory that Clomid can be used as a replacement for HCG while on TRT. At 50 mg per day, you should at least see some LH/FSH if it was doing it's job.

I was told by other that clomid on TRT is pointless, so that could be why.. You either get off TRT totally and hit clomid +HCG or you just do TRT and hit HCG. I jsut threw the clomid in there just in case and I had it

[TRTdrew]

Sorry to hear about your issues. I’m looking forward to hearing what more experienced folks have to say. Thanks for sharing.

[Slacker78]

So I posted several posts about me coming off cycle dosages and trying to get my wife pregnant.

I decided to lower even my TRT dose from 200mg (which gave me levels of 1500), to 100mg CYP; I've been doing GH 4iu ED; I had some left over cComid and threw 50mg ED, and was blasting 2500iu 2x of HCG per week for the first month, but then reduced it to 2000iu per week for the last 2-3 weeks...

Here are my results; my blood was drawn on an empty stomach on a Weds. I take my Test shots Mon and Thurs. I take my GH ED every morning 4ius. My HCG has been 1000mcg Monday and Thurs.

CREATININE (0.60-1.35) 0.98 mg/dL N
EGFR NON AFR AMERICAN (>=60) 101 mL/min/1.73m2 N
EGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN (>=60) 117 mL/min/1.73m2 N
AST (10-40) 82 U/L H
ALT (9-46) 102 U/L H
TSH (0.40-4.50) 1.34 mIU/L N
PROTEIN, TOTAL (6.1-8.1) 6.9 g/dL N
ALBUMIN (3.6-5.1) 4.6 g/dL N
GLOBULIN (1.9-3.7) 2.3 g/dL (calc) N
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO (1.0-2.5) 2.0 (calc) N
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL (0.2-1.2) 0.5 mg/dL N
BILIRUBIN,DIRECT (< = 0.2) 0.2 mg/dL N
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE (40-115) 51 U/L N
AST (10-40) 82 U/L H
ALT (9-46) 102 U/L H
BILIRUBIN,INDIRECT (0.2-1.2) 0.3 mg/dL N
HEMOGLOBIN (13.2-17.1) 16.8 g/dL N
HEMATOCRIT (38.5-50.0) 48.9 % N
HCG,TOTAL,QL (Negative) See notes. N
FSH (1.6-8.0) <0.7 mIU/mL L
LH (1.5-9.3) <0.2 mIU/mL L
PROLACTIN (2.0-18.0) 11.3 ng/mL N
ESTRADIOL (< OR = 39) 50 pg/mL H
DHEA SULFATE (106-464) 379 mcg/dL N

TESTOSTERONE,T,MALE,ADULT (250-827) 577 ng/dL N
71200000 (None) See notes. N
ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM (60-190) 354.6 pg/mL H
Z-SCORE (MALE) (-2.0 - +2.0) 2.3 SD H
IGF-I,LC/MS (53-331) 384 ng/mL H
TESTOSTERONE, FREE (46.0-224.0) 183.4 pg/mL N


Now what's crazy is, I've been having ED and other issues when I lowered the HCG to 2000mcg a week, and notice how is says LH and FSH are low???

My Test levels are good range.

My IGF is high (who said chinese kits are no good lol)

My estrogren is way too high, so I recently added 1mg of Arimidex Mon and Thursday after this test came in... hopefully this solves the issue of ED.

I don't get why my LH and FSH are low if I'm blasting HCG...Maybe i need to go back to 5000iu a week?

Thanks.

HCG is HPTA suppressive, so it's pretty normal to see LH and FSH low; further HCG contribute to Estradiol production, around 20% from Sertoli Cells and 2000 UI/W of HCG, is still an high dosage. Remember either HCG or Estrogens send a strong signal to Hypothalamus and Pituitary to drop LH and FSH production. So, what you have is pretty normal, related what you're doing, is pretty normal.

You have a considerable amount of Free T, and given the exogenous Test Cyp and the high HCG dosage you're assuming, the snapshot you've got explain the high estrogens value in that moment.

GH raise IGF-1 as far as i know. So another normal result.

Check your liver, even the high dosage of HCG you're doing and maybe the way you're eating, could explain this too.

1mg of Arimidex twice at week ??? You're crazy! That's almost an hard AAS cycle dosage. Drop Adex at max 0.25mg twice at week for a while and reduce HCG to max 1000 UI/W and raise up again your test cyp again around 150mg/W ( 75mg x 2 shots ). If you're not be able to get your wife pregnant, you should have to investigate in other sides ( e.g. sperm maturation etc. ).

[JuliusPleaser]

HCG is HPTA suppressive, so it's pretty normal to see LH and FSH low; further HCG contribute to Estradiol production, around 20% from Sertoli Cells and 2000 UI/W of HCG, is still an high dosage. Remember either HCG or Estrogens send a strong signal to Hypothalamus and Pituitary to drop LH and FSH production. So, what you have is pretty normal, related what you're doing, is pretty normal.

You have a considerable amount of Free T, and given the exogenous Test Cyp and the high HCG dosage you're assuming, the snapshot you've got explain the high estrogens value in that moment.

GH raise IGF-1 as far as i know. So another normal result.

Check your liver, even the high dosage of HCG you're doing and maybe the way you're eating, could explain this too.

1mg of Arimidex twice at week ??? You're crazy! That's almost an hard AAS cycle dosage. Drop Adex at max 0.25mg twice at week for a while and reduce HCG to max 1000 UI/W and raise up again your test cyp again around 150mg/W ( 75mg x 2 shots ). If you're not be able to get your wife pregnant, you should have to investigate in other sides ( e.g. sperm maturation etc. ).

Well I just did 1mg 2x a week to rapidly drop this E... but I will take your advice and do the lower dosage of course.

However, everywhere I read where people get pregnant is using the Palumbo Protocol of e 2000iu EOD; the higher these poeple seem to blast HCG, the quicker recovery. I've been on TRT for 2 years straight at 200mg, and also cycled for months on higher dosages like 600mg cyp and some tren at 300mg.

The weeks I was doing 2500iu HCG twice a week seemed to be the most noticable effects in ejactulation volume; but it seems all that HCG caught up and raised E really high. So I figured blast HCG and take Arimidex; the clomid apparently is uselss for me but I threw that in there for good measure.

[JuliusPleaser]

My concern is raising test is that where I have read is the higher the exogenous test, the harder it will be to get your wife pregnant.

When I got my wife pregnant the last time, I ceased all steroids and just too HCG for a month 1000ius a week and clomid; I shrunk, I felt like shit, but I got her pregnant in 3 months. But this was before I ever too TRT. Ever since I got her pregnant, I've been on TRT.

[Slacker78]

You can raise up HCG dosage ( at Palumbo's protocol dosages ) to stimulate your Tests to recovery quicker and product fully matured sperm, but it's evident that you've to fight to related issues, e.g. high estrogens.

In past you found hard to get pregnant your wife, but you were able to do because your tests were "better" than now maybe. Indeed, once you got TRT, now you find hard to get her pregnant. Maybe you got TRT without a full and continuous HCG support and in time this lead to some alteration to product fully-matured sperm. I don't know if your last previous cycle you did HCG and if you use it in these TRT time you were too. What i know is that "blasting" hard to wake-up tests is not a best practice and it could always be a "guessing", than keep them constantly awake in the course of time during AAS cycle/TRT, especially if pregnancies are a concerns.

The recommendations about exogenous testosterone related to pregnancy, are just because LH and FSH shutdown; this could affect tests and for this matter, HCG should be a must in these cases.

About Clomid: it's totally useless in your case.

[JuliusPleaser]

When I first got my wife pregnant, I had got off all cycles and took 4 months to get her pregnant. My natural test levels when tested after that were 242 or something, but still was enough to get her pregnant. All I did was take some HCG for a few weeks then 50mg of clomid ED until she got pregnant.

Now my levels are 577 with 100mg a week, but i never took HCG ever again until now. I guess I could increase the test levels, but would that further decrease the chances of my wife getting pregnant, or does it not matter anymore since I am on lifetime of TRT?

I thought FSH and LH were needed to even be able to produce sperm?

[Slacker78]

When I first got my wife pregnant, I had got off all cycles and took 4 months to get her pregnant. My natural test levels when tested after that were 242 or something, but still was enough to get her pregnant. All I did was take some HCG for a few weeks then 50mg of clomid ED until she got pregnant.

Now my levels are 577 with 100mg a week, but i never took HCG ever again until now. I guess I could increase the test levels, but would that further decrease the chances of my wife getting pregnant, or does it not matter anymore since I am on lifetime of TRT?

I thought FSH and LH were needed to even be able to produce sperm?

TRT without HCG support, in time means: sterility.

HCG provides several benefits, because testicles activity is not just related to Testosterone production, but there's a great network around them.

Look here:

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ould-know.html

LH and FSH are absolutely needed to fully-matured sperm production, whom process require around 72 days. This means that every day you get sperm which was matured in previous 72 days but consider that your seed could have little sperm and/or non fully-functional sperm... especially after long time tests weren't stimulated.

[Youthful55guy]

When I first got my wife pregnant, I had got off all cycles and took 4 months to get her pregnant. My natural test levels when tested after that were 242 or something, but still was enough to get her pregnant. All I did was take some HCG for a few weeks then 50mg of clomid ED until she got pregnant.

Now my levels are 577 with 100mg a week, but i never took HCG ever again until now. I guess I could increase the test levels, but would that further decrease the chances of my wife getting pregnant, or does it not matter anymore since I am on lifetime of TRT?

I thought FSH and LH were needed to even be able to produce sperm?

A couple of things to keep in mind. It take approximately 10 weeks for sperm cells to fully mature. So what you do today will not show up in your ejaculate for another 2-3 months. You are correct that both LH and FSH are needed for proper sperm cell production and maturation. FSH is the hormone responsible for stimulating the Sertoli cells to undergo meiosis to produce the immature sperm cells. As we've discussed in other threads, HCG has both FSH and LH-like activity. A certain level of Intratesticular Testosterone (ITT) is necessary for proper sperm cell maturation. Local levels of T within the testicles are normally higher than in the peripheral circulation. That is why LH is needed to stimulate T production within the testicles. Research studies have shown that approximately 1000 IU per week in divided doses provides sufficient LH activity to stimulate normal ITT levels of testosterone.