BLASTING AND CRUISING Lengths and MYOSTATIN

[John91]

Hey, late 20s medical student.
My first post so go easy on me.
Looking for some experienced users with any opinion on the following.
Even though I think that my English is pretty good, I am German so please excuse any mistakes.

I've only ever done 4 cycles so I'm no pro guru or anything, but then again there are a lot of conflicting studies. But the reasoning of why I ever got into medicine in the first place was to learn more about the body and to improve the human body.


IMPORTANCE OF MYOSTATIN
The main hormone that Ive been interested in is Myostatin. The hormone that tries to control the amount of muscle that a person is able to carry on their frame that sets in around the 10 week marker.
At first I was probably like most gearhead, get rid of myostatin, but then I read more and found that there are a lot of advantages to it that you NEED. Firstly it saves your joints, without this hormone, a person would break their tendons walking up some stairs. There are a lot of studies to support this such as: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26549246 there are numerous more.

Another thing that I read about the hormone that was really interesting since it suggested that the lack of myostatin could cause the muscle to grow disproportionately, as what the text said was that it acts as a mould to keep your muscles where they are supposed to be, I thought that this was interesting, but somehow to me doesn't make any sense, as your muscle growth and shape is dictated by your genetics of insertion points, so if anyone knows anything more on this Id be would be interested.

MYOSTATIN AND DEGENERATION OF MUSCLE MASS
Studies have shown that this is the main cause of gains slowing down after the 8-12 week barrier, not the common misconception that the receptions down regulate, they actually up regulate. Therefore as a beginner one should start on a lower dose and then work their way up, as they simply don't have the amount of receptors to bind to all the androgens, and therefore would just cause more sides.

DECREASING MYOSTATIN
So Ive read and heard a lot about the myostatin inhibitors being fake, personally believe so as this would entail that gene therapy exists, and at the moment sadly I really doubt it otherwise cancer would no longer be a problem. I say gene therapy as, as of right now this is the only way that I know of is a way to completely eradicate myostatin without any serious health problems.
However I have read from some people that HGH (human growth hormone) is able to decrease myostatin as well as IGF1, but then again this hormone creates a lot of side effects, and therefore the only real options would be to take a safe-ish dose of HGH or try to overcompensate the myostatin hormone by just adding more anabolics.

TAKING ANABOLICS WITH DECREASED MYOSTATIN
Here I have no evidence to back up what I'm about to say, but if HGH truly does decrease myostatin and if receptors do in fact actually upregulate with the dose, then couldn't a person stay on cycle all year with no decrease in muscle gains, as long as you kept a close eye on your bloods and such, but therefore just keep switching compounds to compensate this.
PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AND BLAME IT ON ME, ITS WHAT I THINK IS A REASONABLE ASSUMPTION AND HAS NO REAL EVIDENCE.



TAKING ANABOLICS AND MYOSTATIN and cycling
Here I was able to find only 1 source suggesting that after a 10 week cycle the hormone reaches its peak around the 12th week, and with discontinuation of use, its levels begin to decrease until the 20 week mark. I saved this point for last as I really couldn't find any other studies but the one. The problem being is that it was only done on a 12 week cycle, so do all cycles increase myostatin to the 20th week? Or is it proportionate? Ive read that other people are having success with shorter cycles which is something that I want to try, as if they are having success that may mean that the duration of increased myostatin is proportionate to the time on, but may also vary on the dose perhaps.


BLASTING AND CRUISING LENGTHs

SHORT VS LONG

Short:e.g. 6-9 weeks on 5-9 weeks off.

Long:e.g. 10-12 weeks on 8-12 weeks off

I know that some people classify long cycles to be 20 weeks to years, but at the moment I see more benefits to shorter cycles until something or somebody changes my mind.

Before I go on why I personally see that shorter cycles in theory are better. I want to say that there is a debate that longer cycles help you keep the gains that you have made, as of right now I have only been doing 10-12 week cycles bulking up to the 8/9 week mark and then cutting and conditioning with higher dose compounds until the 12th week mark.
Also a great deal of people I know and have heard of are all doing longer cycles, so it may in fact be the way to go.
So I will experiment on myself to see if there is a difference, maybe after 2 cycles I will be able to see for myself what the best option is.

To me short cycles make more sense I know these are two completely different things but if you look at training will the person training a bodypart frequently gain more or the person training a muscle group once per week, (of course this statistic may not apply to anabolic users depending on the compounds that they run and their genetics) but it is a fact that training the muscle group with less volume but with more frequency holds greater success than training a muscle group once with as much volume as possible. Also thinking about it gaining a large substantial amount of muscle which the body will try its utmost to get rid of, and then dropping back down for a large amount of time, to me this looks like a recipe for yo yo gains.

If anyone has some experience or opinions on long vs short cycles Id love to hear from you.


If anyone disagrees to anything that Ive said I welcome you to give your opinion on it so that we both and others can benefit as there is way too much bro science and it is becoming more and more difficult to find out what actually works and what doesn't.
Thank you.

[cousinmuscles]

Hello and welcome,

I don't want to sound impolite as you are genuinely trying to figure things out but there are many flaws in the assumptions and methods. A cycle stops working simply because you become saturated. Upping the dose may add a little gains but these compounds work on the same receptors for anabolism and you're wasting time. You don't lose gains once you come off unless your PCT fails. It is best to just recover, resensitize, and come back and get a full cycles worth of gains not a measly increase.

The whole myostatin thing became a hot issue due to the SARM YK-11. It's a selling point lol all of a sudden you need this to make gains.

The point that of time on = time off is to let your body recover. Your post cycle bloods will show how bad it is depending on what you used. You need time for your HDL/LDL, liver enzymes, RBC etc etc to return to baseline. This is of course if you value your health, ridiculous if you don't.

[Dannyboy51577]

Some interesting discussion here. I have a few thoughts, but have only spent some time recently researching myostatin. Although studies are limited so far on myostatin, as it was more recently discovered, there appears to be a causal link with age between increased myostatin, decreased testosterone, and muscle degeneration. Thats enough for me to believe that on the flip side, mysostatin plays some key role in muscle building as well. I do not think that the current drugs acrually turn out to be myostatin inhibitors, as much as competitors for the same receptors, disallowing the myostatin to exert it effect, or full effect on the body. Just speculation. I am currently on ace-031 and follistatin 344, began yesterday, as i am curious of the results, if any.

There is no information concerning the levels of myostatin at or past a 20 week cycle. Being that myostatin is a fairly new discovery, and that anabolics will not get any sort of extensive research done in the US, any information concerning it would need to come out of another part of the world, and i dont think we are anywhere near that yet.

If im not mistaken-and please correct me otherwise- the origin of the "cycle" came about because guys did not want to allow their natural production to cease for an extended period of time. Then came the idea that receptors would desensitize to the compound, making it pointless to continue on an extended cycle. I find these points to be shaky. There have been many examples on both sides of the arguments showing the other is inaccurate. And there is very limited science to back up either claim, because of the individual uniqueness.

I would say there is an inherent risk involved with staying on cycle for long extended periods. But the train of thought is that most of those risks surround fertility and reproduction, and that should you have no interest in making babies, keep close tabs on your bloods, in theory you could stay on cycle indefinitely. Then there is the train of thought that the body adjusts and receptors desensitize. There isnt extensive enough information, in my opinion, to show what the body does when subjected to an anabolic compound for X amount of time. And to that matter, if the body did adjust, theoretically, why couldnt compounds be swapoed out for another X amount of time, then another, then another.

Its interesting to talk about. Im actually more curious at the moment about whether there will be any actual real world results from these myostatin inhibitors, or competitors. I think if there would be any noticeable results, i should see them within a wk or so

[Dannyboy51577]

Hello and welcome,

I don't want to sound impolite as you are genuinely trying to figure things out but there are many flaws in the assumptions and methods. A cycle stops working simply because you become saturated. Upping the dose may add a little gains but these compounds work on the same receptors for anabolism and you're wasting time. You don't lose gains once you come off unless your PCT fails. It is best to just recover, resensitize, and come back and get a full cycles worth of gains not a measly increase.

The whole myostatin thing became a hot issue due to the SARM YK-11. It's a selling point lol all of a sudden you need this to make gains.

The point that of time on = time off is to let your body recover. Your post cycle bloods will show how bad it is depending on what you used. You need time for your HDL/LDL, liver enzymes, RBC etc etc to return to baseline. This is of course if you value your health, ridiculous if you don't.

Cous- i agree, that whole sarm stuff i think is alot of hype. And if i had to guess, this ace 031 and follistatin is probably much of the same. But i would rather know first hand.

As far as the saturation of androgen receptors, there just isnt much info out there concerning this subject and anabolics. There hasnt been much done in the way of actually studying the effects of anabolics at certain lengths of time and certain dosages to ascertain the reaction of the ar's.

And as far as liver, rbc's, etc, there have been massive advances in the last 20+ years that make these things easy to control. Maybe this was the best school of thought 20 or 30 years ago, but things have come a long way in the last 10 years alone, and everyday we find out that something we knew to be true, isnt the case anymore. Im not saying it is or isnt the case with cycling, maybe it is and thats exactly right, but i am saying i think it would be presumptive and a bit naive to say that either side of the coin is fact when we just dont have the level of knowledge we need to determine these things.

[John91]

Thank you for the input, I have read about the saturation of receptors but I guess I had a flawed idea of how to overcome it.
You mentioned that through proper PCT a person wouldn't lose any size gains, but isn't this only if one is still within their natural limit. Was wondering if you also were able to keep your strength gains.

Personally I found out about it as a friend showed me picture of a massive cow. I never bought into SARMS, to me I think people were just trying to spur a hype as they were legally able sell it.
I thought you could switch out compounds that strain different areas, this is in theory though it would still be dangerous and don't suggest people trying it.
Thank you.

[John91]

I will try to find the study again as I also recently found another forum discussing it. But it's all in theory I would never nor would I suggest anyone to stay on blast for that amount of time.

I was also wondering about the same thing if compounds could just be swapped but as pointed out by cousinmuscles the receptors would still become saturated. I guess the simple ways are always the best.

I read a few studies on injectable folisttatin would be interested hearing about your experience.
Thank you.

[cousinmuscles]

Cous- i agree, that whole sarm stuff i think is alot of hype. And if i had to guess, this ace 031 and follistatin is probably much of the same. But i would rather know first hand.

As far as the saturation of androgen receptors, there just isnt much info out there concerning this subject and anabolics. There hasnt been much done in the way of actually studying the effects of anabolics at certain lengths of time and certain dosages to ascertain the reaction of the ar's.

And as far as liver, rbc's, etc, there have been massive advances in the last 20+ years that make these things easy to control. Maybe this was the best school of thought 20 or 30 years ago, but things have come a long way in the last 10 years alone, and everyday we find out that something we knew to be true, isnt the case anymore. Im not saying it is or isnt the case with cycling, maybe it is and thats exactly right, but i am saying i think it would be presumptive and a bit naive to say that either side of the coin is fact when we just dont have the level of knowledge we need to determine these things.

No you won't manage to eliminate fucked up blood values unless your gear is fake. You can lessen the impact of liver enzymes but even miniscule amounts of orals will crush your HDL raise LDL... And RBC, you'll have to donate and donate or need it so often you have to let blood yourself... There haven't been massive advances in managing sides of gear but you can at least try and get the most bang for your buck from each cycle and make sure your body has recovered, not just take some NAC and hope all is well inside.

[Dannyboy51577]

If the follistatin turns out to be anything more than bullcrap, ill let you know.

[Dannyboy51577]

Im not talking orals. I prob shouldve said that earlier. I wouldnt think the level of toxicity and neg impact on lipids, etc would be able to be overcome forever.

[Couchlockd]

fyi OP, blasting and cruising means NEVER coming off.

what you've posted shows short cycles vs longer cycles with pct.

b&c is cycle legal doses for 8-14 or so weeks followed by TRT or higher doses (depending on what level your at; gym rat or amateur/pro)

[Dannyboy51577]

Just wanted to update- in case anyone comes across the idea of myostatin inhibitors and the current peptides on the market. I dont mind trying new things, playing guinea pig, and more often than not, learning from my mistakes, because most of the experiments turn out to be mistakes.

Ordered follistatin 344 and ACE-031. Started with 100mcg of follistatin 344, which is supposed to be the untagged version. Yeah well so much for that idea. Immediately redness and soreness around injection site about the size of my palm. Woke up next day sicker than shit. Ended up sick for 4-5days- basically bad flu type shit. Couldnt get outta bed for 2 days, then had to lay around couple more days feeling like absolute shit. Last time i use that.

Gave it a couple days of feeling ok to try the ace-031. Figured i would start slow to avoid issues. First day 100mcg, redness soreness around injection site, but thats it, no result. 2nd day 300mcg, same redness, no result. From everything i had read, it was suggested to dose at 1mg in 1 shot, once per wk. So 3rd day, dosed 1mg. Same redness, soreness.
Except this time, within about 20 mins, began shaking uncontrollably, to the point i couldnt get up off couch. Finally got to bp monitor and bp and heart rate was through the roof!
Went on this way non stop for 20+min, something ive never experienced on any level. Once i got the shaking to subside, and laid down, got about 2 hrs sleep and sweat like never before. Rest of that stuff will be goin in garbage too

Just a heads up for anyone that may come across these and think they might be worth a shot. I have to really advise against it, it is nowhere near worth even trying. Learn from my mistakes.

[Kyle1337]

What do blasters and cruisers do about myostatin? It sounds like this only becomes and issue with users of that like. If you cycle and then come off and PCT it sounds like the myostatin stays at a healthy level. HGH is stupid expensive and a B&C plus HGH is damn expensive.

[GearHeaded]

What do blasters and cruisers do about myostatin? It sounds like this only becomes and issue with users of that like. If you cycle and then come off and PCT it sounds like the myostatin stays at a healthy level. HGH is stupid expensive and a B&C plus HGH is damn expensive.

for blaster and cruisers, you can inhibit myostatin up regulation to a certain degree by rotating anabolic compounds in and out every 6-8 weeks, taking things that up regulate androgen receptor activity (i.e, making more receptors), and introducing growth factors that do not increase mysotatin like HGH, insulin, IGF1 .

gurantee you the above things is what big Ramy and every other huge body builder has done for years to get so big .. NOT some magical mysotatin inhibitor drug

great question btw

[Obs]

for blaster and cruisers, you can inhibit myostatin up regulation to a certain degree by rotating anabolic compounds in and out every 6-8 weeks, taking things that up regulate androgen receptor activity (i.e, making more receptors), and introducing growth factors that do not increase mysotatin like HGH, insulin, IGF1 .

gurantee you the above things is what big Ramy and every other huge body builder has done for years to get so big .. NOT some magical mysotatin inhibitor drug

great question btw

I agree and I will also add that to much credit is given to myostatin inhibition in my opinion. It can be manuvered around just as you say.
It will peak around week 8 but with longer esters (that do a fantastic job) like deca you dont see its effects till much later. My point is yes added compounds will continue growth.

Compound rotation is key. As is a deload.
Running slin threw mass on me right after a 12 week heavy tren cycle.

My deloads will be two weeks my reloads will be 8 weeks and after 3 reloads or so I will be taking 2 months off.

This was my intention 3 months ago but a sponsor wanted me to log for twelve weeks on their stuff.

[Dannyboy51577]

And if they ever do come up with some magical drug, thats great. Like i said, ill guinea pig and try some shit, never know. But hopefully save some guys a waste of time, money, and down time from being sick on these ones. Write them off