Question about time off in between cycles

[jackfrost88]

Thanks for replies - I guess my question was if the decline after 30, as people have mentioned, is due to cycling (assuming done responsibly) or a natural decline that would have occurred anyways. If it is due to steroids is there any research backing this up? Or is it all done anecdotally.

There are pros that swear their natural test levels are normal when coming off despite running 20 week long hard contest prep drug cycles throughout their careers. Each person is obviously different but this information is all over the place and its hard to understand what to expect if continuing to cycle.

[Windex]

Thanks for replies - I guess my question was if the decline after 30, as people have mentioned, is due to cycling (assuming done responsibly) or a natural decline that would have occurred anyways. If it is due to steroids is there any research backing this up? Or is it all done anecdotally.

There are pros that swear their natural test levels are normal when coming off despite running 20 week long hard contest prep drug cycles throughout their careers. Each person is obviously different but this information is all over the place and its hard to understand what to expect if continuing to cycle.

Every male has their testosterone levels naturally decrease as they age, regardless of whether or not they weightlift or exercise. It's just part of getting older and the natural degradation of the human body.

You should take everything with a grain of salt when it comes to what other people preach as it pertains to fitness and steroids. Professionals are paid to say certain things. Also pros are genetic abnormalities, that's why they were able to become pro in the first place, so what they do is completely irrelevant for the average cycling gym guy.


What exactly is your concern? If your fear is ending up on TRT and don't want to take that risk then you shouldn't cycle. You can't really preconceive any hard set expectations because like you said in the same paragraph everybodies body is different.

[jackfrost88]

Every male has their testosterone levels naturally decrease as they age, regardless of whether or not they weightlift or exercise. It's just part of getting older and the natural degradation of the human body.

You should take everything with a grain of salt when it comes to what other people preach as it pertains to fitness and steroids. Professionals are paid to say certain things. Also pros are genetic abnormalities, that's why they were able to become pro in the first place, so what they do is completely irrelevant for the average cycling gym guy.


What exactly is your concern? If your fear is ending up on TRT and don't want to take that risk then you shouldn't cycle. You can't really preconceive any hard set expectations because like you said in the same paragraph everybodies body is different.

I am trying to clarify if the decrease in testosterone resulting from steroids is caused by the drugs themselves or if it is a natural decline - there is limited research regarding whether they are correlated or steroids cause this. Also I am talking about lighter cycles such as test only or less harsh compounds for 12 weeks not staying on for extended periods with 19nors etc.

I am not worried about TRT if it is later on if I would need it anyways (I am turning 31). But definitely closer to 40

Basically trying to understand the relation since certain people say they recover fully, others say that they do one test cycle and it caused them to need TRT for life. There is really no clear reason for this from what I can tell and trying to figure out why. People just say "your HPTA hasn't recovered" but really they have no idea and are just saying what they heard. Trying to get more specific as to the reason if anyone knows.

I know its kind of convoluted and there might not be a clear answer out there but wanted to see if anyone knew! Thanks.

[Windex]

I am trying to clarify if the decrease in testosterone resulting from steroids is caused by the drugs themselves or if it is a natural decline - there is limited research regarding whether they are correlated or steroids cause this. Also I am talking about lighter cycles such as test only or less harsh compounds for 12 weeks not staying on for extended periods with 19nors etc.

I am not worried about TRT if it is later on if I would need it anyways (I am turning 31). But definitely closer to 40

Basically trying to understand the relation since certain people say they recover fully, others say that they do one test cycle and it caused them to need TRT for life. There is really no clear reason for this from what I can tell and trying to figure out why. People just say "your HPTA hasn't recovered" but really they have no idea and are just saying what they heard. Trying to get more specific as to the reason if anyone knows.

I know its kind of convoluted and there might not be a clear answer out there but wanted to see if anyone knew! Thanks.

There isn't a black and white answer - you won't find studies from cycle dosages of gear because a Doctor would lose their lisence prescribing 600mg of test. Plus, several steroids weren't even designed for fitness or weightlifting. Tren was created for cattle feeding. EQ was invented for horses. Anadrol was invented for anemia. Insulin for diabetes and so on.

It's just happenstance that "we" found PCT drugs for recovery in the first place. Nolva was made to treat breast cancer.

Also, just because someone says they recover fully means nothing out of context. Someone could go for blood work, have levels be in range (which are often large ranges to begin with), call the office for results, then the doctor or doctors office tells them their levels are normal. Many people interpret this as fully recovering even though they never even see the blood work results. Additionally, people often don't get a complete panel done. So they might test for 90% of the required which comes back fine and miss the other 10%.

There's also the matter of incompetence - how many people start a post with Ive done a lot of research and want to do this cycle, and their proposed plan is a complete train wreck. How many people can actually explain for example the pharmacology of Nolvadex and Clomid, rather than just parrot they are used in PCT?

The idea of a "light or safe" cycle is a misconception and oxymoron. Your endocrine system producing the respective hormones is shut down 100%. The easiest way to illustrate this is with TRT - minimum dose required to function and still 0 FSH and LH production, which is why there is HCG.

Decreasing Test levels from aging is known information - that's just how the male body works. The impact, velocity, and gradient to which steroids affect Test levels is impossible to definitively prove because of so many factors/variables.

[jackfrost88]

There isn't a black and white answer - you won't find studies from cycle dosages of gear because a Doctor would lose their lisence prescribing 600mg of test. Plus, several steroids weren't even designed for fitness or weightlifting. Tren was created for cattle feeding. EQ was invented for horses. Anadrol was invented for anemia. Insulin for diabetes and so on.

It's just happenstance that "we" found PCT drugs for recovery in the first place. Nolva was made to treat breast cancer.

Also, just because someone says they recover fully means nothing out of context. Someone could go for blood work, have levels be in range (which are often large ranges to begin with), call the office for results, then the doctor or doctors office tells them their levels are normal. Many people interpret this as fully recovering even though they never even see the blood work results. Additionally, people often don't get a complete panel done. So they might test for 90% of the required which comes back fine and miss the other 10%.

There's also the matter of incompetence - how many people start a post with Ive done a lot of research and want to do this cycle, and their proposed plan is a complete train wreck. How many people can actually explain for example the pharmacology of Nolvadex and Clomid, rather than just parrot they are used in PCT?

The idea of a "light or safe" cycle is a misconception and oxymoron. Your endocrine system producing the respective hormones is shut down 100%. The easiest way to illustrate this is with TRT - minimum dose required to function and still 0 FSH and LH production, which is why there is HCG.

Decreasing Test levels from aging is known information - that's just how the male body works. The impact, velocity, and gradient to which steroids affect Test levels is impossible to definitively prove because of so many factors/variables.

Alright thanks. Would explain why there isn't an abundance of information out there. Would be nice to have a study done where a large group of healthy males 20-35 are given 500mg of test and monitored after for some test results haha.