lab results hesitant to start new cycle

[bethdoth]

I am on HRT 140mg a week and do an occasional cycle. I came off an 8 week cycle (test/tren) July 1st and was going to start another November 1st, but my lab results have me concerned. This was a very comprehensive lab with all panels ordered and urine. I will only provide the items that were either high/low/pertinent, otherwise I would be here typing all day long (lab results are 6 pages long).
Lab result range
CHOL 233 H <200
HDL 49 N >40
LDL 165 H <130
TRIGLYC 96 N <150
-------------------------------------------
WBC 5.9 N 4-11
RBC 6.25 H 4.2-5.7
HGB 16.5 N 13-17
HCT 50.1 N 40-51%
MCV 80.2 L 82-99
MCH 26.4 L 27-34
MCHC 32.9 N 31-37
RDW 16.1 H 0-15
PLAT CT 196 N 130-400
MPV 9.2 N 8-12
-----------------------------------------------
FREE TEST 156.9 pg/mL H
Total test 801 ng/dL
ESTROGEN-SERUM 69.1 pg.mL

These labs were via the Veterans Administration and done by Quest-Nichols Inst and not my normal lab. Before I got these complete lab results the other day I went and gave blood again. My research indicates I may need to eat more iron or take a supplement. i know frequent blood draw can lower iron?
Not to worried about my cholesterol it has always been borderline.
Any thoughts welcome.

[GearHeaded]

personal opinion here.. I think a lot of guys donate blood too often and are overly worried about RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit issues. Our raise in hemoglobin is a natural result of what we do, NOT a medical disease or condition we have. Just like people like myself living at high altitude all have higher Hematocrit levels then you low landers.

there is a confusion in the bodybuilding world right now between polycythemia as a disease and simply having higher hematocrit because of our lifestyle



IF your blood work did NOT show higher levels of hemoglobin then your gear was probably bunk.. having higher levels is an actual 'performance' and 'physique enhancement' benefit of steroids (not a negative side effect).
One reason why bodybuilders may take EPO on top of AAS going into a show to get their blood levels that much higher and thicker (I'm not saying that is safe, just saying its a 'physique enhancement' which is why we are all doing AAS in the first place)

[kelkel]

Very interesting point of view the the doctor.

[GearHeaded]

Very interesting point of view the the doctor.

I've heard Dave Palumbo talk about hematocrit and indicate that it really isn't as big of a concern as a lot of guys make it out to be.. when I first heard this I was surprised, as I had always worried about my hematocrit.
Then I heard another doctor talking about it just in passing and he seemed to indicate that testostereone use causing high hematocrit and ultimately a stroke is a concern for guys, but that there is no true evidence to prove this is in fact true.
so it got me thinking

[kelkel]

I have a personal friend who had a minor heart attack years back that his doctor blamed on his "thick" blood. The video makes me wonder at what point does it become dangerous to the doctor?

[almostgone]

I have a personal friend who had a minor heart attack years back that his doctor blamed on his "thick" blood. The video makes me wonder at what point does it become dangerous to the doctor?

I think some of the danger lies if there are hidden condition or for some of us, genetic disorders. I still see a lot of the TRT gurus advocate maintaining an in range hematocrit and hemoglobin as long as ferritin and TIBC are in check.


Edit: That's one reason you see the extra tests on my results when discussing labs. I'll throw the D-Dimer or PT/INR, C-reactive protein, and complete iron panel in there to keep a grip on things/keep the heart from shooting the crapper again.

[Capebuffalo]

Well I have polycythemia. It’s manditory blood donation every 2-3 weeks. I have to use 2 different blood banks.

[bethdoth]

I guess I was more concerned about the fact that there are more red blood cells (RBC), they appear to be smaller (MCV), have less of the oxygen carrying protein hemoglobin (MCH) and there is a larger than normal difference in the size of the red blood cells (RDW). I do feel that my energy levels and intensity of my works has been a little less as of late.
Interesting what the doc has to say. Maybe we need higher hemoglobin when on HRT?

[charger69]

Well I have polycythemia. It’s manditory blood donation every 2-3 weeks. I have to use 2 different blood banks.

If it’s mandatory, why do you need to use two different blood banks? Or is it mandatory as prescribed by Dr Cape?


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[Capebuffalo]

If it’s mandatory, why do you need to use two different blood banks? Or is it mandatory as prescribed by Dr Cape?


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Well I can go to the doctors office and pay $200+ per visit or I can go to Red Cross and LifeSouth for free. Since I don’t have the Jack(something) type I’m allowed to donate.

[charger69]

Dang you guys. You have the smoke rolling out of my ears.
I have always related high hematocrit with tren.
I would give blood every month. I would become very heavy breathing during cardio and I knew it was time to donate. This went on going up to a comp however close to the comp, I did not feel the difficulty breathing during cardio like I expected. I donated anyway and they said my reading was low however not so low that I couldn’t donate. I do not trust their readings so I blew it off. 2 weeks after the comp ( and off cycle) I had blood tests and my hematocrit was low, but within limit.
Why would my normal Situation of high hematocrit change ?
This post made me realize that I stopped the test 2 weeks out because of water retention however I was on low test ( about 200 mg/wk).
Can anyone make any sense out of wwhy this occurred?


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[GearHeaded]

Well I have polycythemia. It’s manditory blood donation every 2-3 weeks. I have to use 2 different blood banks.

well you could just do what I did.. had a major surgery that took several hours and lost a lot of blood. my hemoglobin went from 18s to 14.6.
4 surgeries in 4 years has probably kept me healthy and on track

[Capebuffalo]

well you could just do what I did.. had a major surgery that took several hours and lost a lot of blood. my hemoglobin went from 18s to 14.6.
4 surgeries in 4 years has probably kept me healthy and on track

I think I’ll stick with donating. Thanks anyway. Lol

[almostgone]

Well I can go to the doctors office and pay $200+ per visit or I can go to Red Cross and LifeSouth for free. Since I don’t have the Jack(something) type I’m allowed to donate.

Yeah, they rape me if I go that route as well. Someone will probably jump in here and tell us that we need to "do your research, bro", but a lot of the younger guys don't take into account some of us are genetically predisposed to polycythemia, have clotting disorders, were eligible to be worked up for a heart transplant, etc. or a number of other issues, but I am ranting.

If I go the therapeutic phlebotomy via a Dr. script it costs me $88 to ditch a pint and because it is done under a script instead of a normal donation, they have to disposed of it as medical waste. However if it is a normal donation time, they will use it to help someone. The last portion is what really burns my rope. They throw perfectly good blood away.

Anyway, for those of you that do have to donate often, please at least monitor your ferritin, if possible pull a full iron panel periodically.

[almostgone]

I guess I was more concerned about the fact that there are more red blood cells (RBC), they appear to be smaller (MCV), have less of the oxygen carrying protein hemoglobin (MCH) and there is a larger than normal difference in the size of the red blood cells (RDW). I do feel that my energy levels and intensity of my works has been a little less as of late.
Interesting what the doc has to say. Maybe we need higher hemoglobin when on HRT?

Since you recently donated and are feeling run down, I would ask about getting ferritin levels checked. Also, I occasionally supplement with low dose elemental iron for a few weeks when necessary, which isn't often. I really like the Vitron-C, bethdoth. You can find it @ CVS or on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Vitron-C-Pote.../dp/B00140Z5DW

[mexecutioner]

Polycythemia is definitely something to be concerned about. It is a big deal. If you want to have a stroke then by all means let it ride as high as you want. Lets say you have just one episode of afib (which goes undiagnosed more than you'd think), throw a clot, and die, when donating could have easily been done. That's not a regret I would want.

[bethdoth]

Yeah, they rape me if I go that route as well. Someone will probably jump in here and tell us that we need to "do your research, bro", but a lot of the younger guys don't take into account some of us are genetically predisposed to polycythemia, have clotting disorders, were eligible to be worked up for a heart transplant, etc. or a number of other issues, but I am ranting.

If I go the therapeutic phlebotomy via a Dr. script it costs me $88 to ditch a pint and because it is done under a script instead of a normal donation, they have to disposed of it as medical waste. However if it is a normal donation time, they will use it to help someone. The last portion is what really burns my rope. They throw perfectly good blood away.

Anyway, for those of you that do have to donate often, please at least monitor your ferritin, if possible pull a full iron panel periodically.

Our community blood center does therapeutic phlebotomy for free that is where I go.

[bethdoth]

Since you recently donated and are feeling run down, I would ask about getting ferritin levels checked. Also, I occasionally supplement with low dose elemental iron for a few weeks when necessary, which isn't often. I really like the Vitron-C, bethdoth. You can find it @ CVS or on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Vitron-C-Pote.../dp/B00140Z5DW

Thanks! Ordered some will give it a try.

My symptoms are kinda like they were when I first discovered I had low T (299 on a scale of 300-1100). Tired early in the day, low energy at the gym and fall asleep between 8-10 every night. Maybe being 57 years young and get up at 5AM to go to work every day. Fighting a good fight against aging!!!

[almostgone]

Thanks! Ordered some will give it a try.

My symptoms are kinda like they were when I first discovered I had low T (299 on a scale of 300-1100). Tired early in the day, low energy at the gym and fall asleep between 8-10 every night. Maybe being 57 years young and get up at 5AM to go to work every day. Fighting a good fight against aging!!!

Same here, Beth doth. Just turned 54 recently, some days it a real mf-er to get moving!

[Arcânn]

Random question: Is there a reduced risk for clotting issues like strokes if you have high hematocrit but low platelets?

[almostgone]

Random question: Is there a reduced risk for clotting issues like strokes if you have high hematocrit but low platelets?

There are 2 schools of thought on that. Again, if your have a genetic predisposition to polycythemia, clotting disorder, or prior cardiac issues I stick with the TRT gurus that say donate to keep H&H in range provided your ferritin isn't low.

As I posted earlier we have some members that will roll through and keep sprouting "do your research,bro", but they don't take into account that several of the guys above (myself included) have conditions such as clotting disorders, genetic predisposition to polycythemia, poor cardiac histories, etc.
All they point to is how high endurance bikers keep their hematocrit, which is true, but then your typical endurance bikers doesn't have the pre-existing or genetic issues that I posted above

[Chrisp83TRT]

personal opinion here.. I think a lot of guys donate blood too often and are overly worried about RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit issues. Our raise in hemoglobin is a natural result of what we do, NOT a medical disease or condition we have. Just like people like myself living at high altitude all have higher Hematocrit levels then you low landers.

there is a confusion in the bodybuilding world right now between polycythemia as a disease and simply having higher hematocrit because of our lifestyle



IF your blood work did NOT show higher levels of hemoglobin then your gear was probably bunk.. having higher levels is an actual 'performance' and 'physique enhancement' benefit of steroids (not a negative side effect).
One reason why bodybuilders may take EPO on top of AAS going into a show to get their blood levels that much higher and thicker (I'm not saying that is safe, just saying its a 'physique enhancement' which is why we are all doing AAS in the first place)

I love that you posted this video as many swear that having high hemocrit is dangerous....

ITS NOT !

When you have high platelets is when you need to be concerned as that leaves you at risk for a stroke or heart attack!

Thank you for posting this bro


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[Chrisp83TRT]

But I will say if you are diagnosed with poly. Then you should be always be on top of your bloods for sure.

Don’t want there to be a misunderstanding on my end


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[Obs]

I am like charger. Except for the cardio.
I start getting winded in my second exercise of HIT and I am screwed until I donate. My hematocrit is always on the lower end of the spectrum.
I have always assumed my issue was too much total blood volume. Not high RBC.

Its a night and day difference after donation though.

[Chrisp83TRT]

I am like charger. Except for the cardio.
I start getting winded in my second exercise of HIT and I am screwed until I donate. My hematocrit is always on the lower end of the spectrum.
I have always assumed my issue was too much total blood volume. Not high RBC.

Its a night and day difference after donation though.

I definitely am effected with my breathing with high hbc... it’s never fun


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[almostgone]

Our community blood center does therapeutic phlebotomy for free that is where I go.

The closest one to me is over an hour away, called the blood connection. Wish they were closer.