Gearheaded’s crazy EXPERIMENTS log

[DeeCee112]

Hey GH first off thanks for taking the time to log all of this! This post carried on a bit which I apologize for don't mean to hijack your thread but few things I want to say.

I think for myself as a rookie it's been refreshing see the real day to day from some of the vets on this thread. Ive found that coming into this game and hitting the forums too often you meet non stop criticism that beats you down if you don't follow the exact fucking protocol or guideline in the Bible of starting steroids as written by the internet.

You aren't eating enough or properly your going to fail
You aren't taking this or that you don't know what your doing
You got sick or missed workouts you should quit

I got a stomach flu AND mild bronchitis (three kids in daycare fuck me right) so far in this cycle and it got me down pretty bad, but I'm glad I didn't just eject because I fought through it and am still doing well enough. I've eaten fast food, I've missed workouts due to crazy work schedule, I didn't start HCG off the bat ect.

Anyway I guess just trying to summarize its cool to see the real deal instead of just high and mighty attitude on the forum and logs like: Im on blah blah everything is amazing life is perfect I workout everyday and eat everyday never miss anything and omg guys I've gained 15lbs this week of pure lean muscle (side note I hate that term like wtf is there fat muscle!?!)

Your a dude with multiple injuries, a busy life, shit happens in life but your grinding it the fuck out for every pound of muscle because that's the life you love. Do you deserve to run AAS even though you don't plan to be an IFBB pro? Why the fuck not? Theres a lot of relevant experience to learn from in here on keeping it going through injuries, sickness, negative experience with compounds and how to identify and correct it, anabolic and androgen properties and structuring cycles, and guess what it's hard to stuff 7 meals a day into your fucking mouth and most of us aren't genetic freaks and it's hard to put on solid muscle. I can relate to that man. Thanks.

BTW I have similar issues with my pecs and shoulders. I stopped working shoulders out really besides some cable isolation work of side and rear heads because my delts at some point in my early training completely overcame my pecs. I believe from poor posture and winged scapulars that I didn't know enough to correct at the time. It got so bad I couldn't even isolate my upper pecs without flexing my shoulders more. My shoulders still suffer from tissue damage from being the primary mover in heavy benches, construction work in a forward dominant position. I have wide and round shoulders which is sweet and all but I have to fight, and concentrate and carefully train and work around pain for any pec gains.

[GearHeaded]

I appreciate you taking the time to check my log out and making that post DeeCee. comments like that keep me motivated , not only for myself and my own gains , but helping other guys out to make gains as well !

[GearHeaded]

minor update -

I'm adding in 25mg of Benadryl per night . no not for allergies. just to see if it does anything for some of the Tren side effects . not that they are bad by any means at the moment, but the dosage is going to be ramping up.

Tren can give me some gnarly heart burn and acid reflux and just an overall feeling of toxicity. almost like my body is trying to detox itself through my stomach. without getting into all the details right now, its late, I'll just say I believe this may have to do with a Histamine response generated by the Tren (perhaps it is a type of toxic response).
So why not try running an anti histamine that has the added benefit of making you drowsy . as tren does effect my sleep.

sure I can do traditional acid reflux meds like Prevacid or other PPI . but if it really is a histamine response from the Tren, the Benadryl, if it helps the problem , will tell me that thats whats going on. and not simply just mask the problem like most heart burn meds do.
and again, the added benefit of a sleep aide .


still on the meat and potatoes diet and training program. training only about 4 days per week right now. volume is way way down compared to what it had been. the food/calories and the drugs are going to start to ramp up more. my instinct is to want to add in more training volume when I do that , but I'm gong to resist the urge right now . I really want to focus just on growth and recovery right now.

I've been extremely lethargic the last week or so. this tells me (at least I hope) I'm in a bit of a growth phase. I won't be surprised that a week or so goes by and I've jumped up a good 6 or more pounds.

we'll see. not bad at all considering I'm training a lot less, and my drug cycle is extremely moderate compared to past cycles. BUT if you'll remember, my last cycle ended with a blast phase which had the sole purpose of trying to stimulate androgen receptor turnover as an investment into my future cycles. I did that 7,500mg equivalent androgen load blast at the end of the last cycle in hopes of that carrying over to my next couple cycles, and not simply trying to get gains from it during that cycle itself .

I'm growing off of lower dosages now after doing that. maybe it worked. I didn't invent the strategy. I got the idea from a very smart guy that was the head chemist at a big pharma company for 25 years and spent his whole life studying mainly the androgen receptor.
his theory was that if you completely blast and over load your body with a massive influx of androgens, that your body will super compensate and super up-regulate the production of more and more androgen receptors in attempt to deal with that big influx of AAS. so thats what I did the last 3 weeks of the last cycle by blasting 7,500mg a week equivalent of androgens (I felt horrible by the way and didn't sleep at all during most the time doing that)

[charger69]

Try baking soda and water. It does the trick for my acid reflux.


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[kelkel]

mTren can give me some gnarly heart burn and acid reflux and just an overall feeling of toxicity. almost like my body is trying to detox itself through my stomach.

Since running BPC-157 for my shoulder tear my acid reflux (Barrett's Esophagus) has improved dramatically. Normally in the evening I'd be pounding down Tums. Don't need them now.

[Charlie67]

Since running BPC-157 for my shoulder tear my acid reflux (Barrett's Esophagus) has improved dramatically. Normally in the evening I'd be pounding down Tums. Don't need them now.

Side question for Kel... How long do (did) you run BPC?

[kelkel]

Didn't take long to notice that effect. I've been running it more on that off since the beginning of the year or so.

[Obs]

Since running BPC-157 for my shoulder tear my acid reflux (Barrett's Esophagus) has improved dramatically. Normally in the evening I'd be pounding down Tums. Don't need them now.

I relly need to try bpc and t500

[Obs]

Try baking soda and water. It does the trick for my acid reflux.


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Mix some shitty tasting shit in water and drink it...

I will choke on acid

[GearHeaded]

so its about time to make some adjustments to the AAS

this is what I've been doing recently

350mg Primo
500mg Deca
300mg Tren
200mg test (after a few weeks with no test)

a combo of Dbol and Adrol as my orals (30mg of Dbol, 50mg Adrol). on and off as an accessory to my base cycle. however I cut both of these out a few days ago. reason why is I just wanted to check my weight and my gains without the added water and glycogen that instantly come from theses two orals (again I'm in a tissue gaining phase, and not just a mass gaining phase)

T4 75mcg per day
insulin 30iu per day (various training days only)
Mk677 25mg per day (about 4 days per week only)

so the Primo is about to run dry. I been on it at a low dose since I came off my last cycle and went on a 6 week off cycle cruise. so I been on it for several months.

heres a few ideas of tweaks I may make.. one thing I'm going to do differently is I'm going to END this cycle with a volumization and estrogen phase. I often times start out a cycle this way. the reason is to put on a lot of lean tissue now , and then 'blow it up' at the end of the cycle, rather then blowing up existing tissue at the start of the cycle. trying to blow up both existing and new tissue at the end of this cycle, and then try and maintain that new set point into my off cycle cruise. rather then drying out first, and going into an off cycle cruise phase in a dry state (if that makes sense to you all)

so again Primo is going bye bye in a week or so

EQ 600mg
Deca 750mg
Tren 300mg

Anavar 25mg per day .. Dbol 20mg PW . test stays at low trt

so the EQ replaces the Primo as the 'anabolic' . and this is with a much look forward approach, in that I plan on going into my next off cycle cruise phase using EQ as my cruise. so I'm starting that now in the middle of this cycle, so that when I actually go into my cruise, the EQ has already been in there a good 6-8 weeks first. I'm not coming "off cycle" for only 6 weeks and waiting for my EQ to 'kick in' .. its already there. just like when you use TRT dose of test to cruise on when off cycle, the test has generally been in there the whole time year round. you don't come 'off cycle' and take test e and wait for it to kick in.

the deca increases to 750mg . no biggy here. nothing to explain as its about time to taper up the dosage.

tren stays at only 300mg per week.. being I'm running very low dose test, the tren is acting as my main androgen on this cycle, yet provides a ton more tissue growth and anabolic properties then test. no point in increasing the dosage. its used only for this certain purpose.

VAR - so only running 25mg per day here. low dose. just adding a bit of CP up regulation and anabolic load to this cycle with minimal negative sides or liver toxicity. will keep SHBG low and help my very low dose of Test be a bit more productive.
Dbol - 20mg pre workout only.. this is common protocol. will also give me a little bit of needed aromatiztion and estrogen. YES despite what you read on most forums about preventing aromatization and estrogen, I actually take drugs to help increase these. I really don't want to a 'dry' cycle with anabolics that don't convert to estrogen and run AI's on top of that, and basically kill my gains and kill my HDL and IGF (plus I'm running Tren, and need so potent estrogen which Tren utilizes for increasing IGF levels.. Dbol is good in that it aromatizes into a very biological available form of estrogen. which with the tren will be very efficient at increasing IGF levels)


well shit.. this post is long as hell and I've not even talked about different cycle ideas. I only gave one 'tweak' to my existing cycle, wtf

[kelkel]

How often are you using the pre-workout Dbol in cycles?

[GearHeaded]

How often are you using the pre-workout Dbol in cycles?

pretty darn often. even off cycle I'll use it.. however never totally consistently unless dbol is part of my actual cycle. if its just pre workout only then it will be for a few weeks or so. then a week or two break. no real reason for the breaks other then not wanting to develop a mental dependency on something to be used as a pre workout... years back I remember getting to the gym for my workout and releasing I didn't take mw pw dbol. I got pissd and had a crappy workout. I know of guys that are the same way with insulin. if they don't pin 10+ iu of slin before they lift, they feel the whole session is a waste . this is total BS of course. but heck even nattys develop these mental dependencies with OTC pre workouts. so I take breaks all the time and miss dosings. when I do take it , I feel mental clarity and focus. but don't need to rely on anything for that, its just a 'perk'

[guitarzan]

Hey GH, what you think of dbol on a cut? I've had people tell me I was a idiot, you dont use that on a cut, but if the end goal is all you care about, and you drop it in time to lose the water weight, why not? The muscle and strength gains you quickly get, got to help burn calories in the run. I started a cut with it one time, but had to stop my cycle because of a injury.

[GearHeaded]

Hey GH, what you think of dbol on a cut? I've had people tell me I was a idiot, you dont use that on a cut, but if the end goal is all you care about, and you drop it in time to lose the water weight, why not? The muscle and strength gains you quickly get, got to help burn calories in the run. I started a cut with it one time, but had to stop my cycle because of a injury.

it can definitely be used in a cut , if you know what your doing with your secondary compounds, ancillaries, and your diet.

heck.. Arnold ran Primo and Dbol (no test) for contest prep , and he turned out ok

[jolter604]

Hey GH, what you think of dbol on a cut? I've had people tell me I was a idiot, you dont use that on a cut, but if the end goal is all you care about, and you drop it in time to lose the water weight, why not? The muscle and strength gains you quickly get, got to help burn calories in the run. I started a cut with it one time, but had to stop my cycle because of a injury.

Man use any thing you want to cut its all about diet.
Some are just better then others for diffrent things.

[jolter604]

so its about time to make some adjustments to the AAS

this is what I've been doing recently

350mg Primo
500mg Deca
300mg Tren
200mg test (after a few weeks with no test)

a combo of Dbol and Adrol as my orals (30mg of Dbol, 50mg Adrol). on and off as an accessory to my base cycle. however I cut both of these out a few days ago. reason why is I just wanted to check my weight and my gains without the added water and glycogen that instantly come from theses two orals (again I'm in a tissue gaining phase, and not just a mass gaining phase)

T4 75mcg per day
insulin 30iu per day (various training days only)
Mk677 25mg per day (about 4 days per week only)

so the Primo is about to run dry. I been on it at a low dose since I came off my last cycle and went on a 6 week off cycle cruise. so I been on it for several months.

heres a few ideas of tweaks I may make.. one thing I'm going to do differently is I'm going to END this cycle with a volumization and estrogen phase. I often times start out a cycle this way. the reason is to put on a lot of lean tissue now , and then 'blow it up' at the end of the cycle, rather then blowing up existing tissue at the start of the cycle. trying to blow up both existing and new tissue at the end of this cycle, and then try and maintain that new set point into my off cycle cruise. rather then drying out first, and going into an off cycle cruise phase in a dry state (if that makes sense to you all)

so again Primo is going bye bye in a week or so

EQ 600mg
Deca 750mg
Tren 300mg

Anavar 25mg per day .. Dbol 20mg PW . test stays at low trt

so the EQ replaces the Primo as the 'anabolic' . and this is with a much look forward approach, in that I plan on going into my next off cycle cruise phase using EQ as my cruise. so I'm starting that now in the middle of this cycle, so that when I actually go into my cruise, the EQ has already been in there a good 6-8 weeks first. I'm not coming "off cycle" for only 6 weeks and waiting for my EQ to 'kick in' .. its already there. just like when you use TRT dose of test to cruise on when off cycle, the test has generally been in there the whole time year round. you don't come 'off cycle' and take test e and wait for it to kick in.

the deca increases to 750mg . no biggy here. nothing to explain as its about time to taper up the dosage.

tren stays at only 300mg per week.. being I'm running very low dose test, the tren is acting as my main androgen on this cycle, yet provides a ton more tissue growth and anabolic properties then test. no point in increasing the dosage. its used only for this certain purpose.

VAR - so only running 25mg per day here. low dose. just adding a bit of CP up regulation and anabolic load to this cycle with minimal negative sides or liver toxicity. will keep SHBG low and help my very low dose of Test be a bit more productive.
Dbol - 20mg pre workout only.. this is common protocol. will also give me a little bit of needed aromatiztion and estrogen. YES despite what you read on most forums about preventing aromatization and estrogen, I actually take drugs to help increase these. I really don't want to a 'dry' cycle with anabolics that don't convert to estrogen and run AI's on top of that, and basically kill my gains and kill my HDL and IGF (plus I'm running Tren, and need so potent estrogen which Tren utilizes for increasing IGF levels.. Dbol is good in that it aromatizes into a very biological available form of estrogen. which with the tren will be very efficient at increasing IGF levels)


well shit.. this post is long as hell and I've not even talked about different cycle ideas. I only gave one 'tweak' to my existing cycle, wtf

Nice stack and MG man

[GearHeaded]

UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.

time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.

so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.

TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).


so what we going to do now.
EXPERIMENT again. thats what I do.

my experiment is this. I'm going to see how much of that 25 pounds I can gain back running only DRY compounds and long esters and very low doses.. now could I run wet bulking short ester compounds at high doses and "blow up" , sure. but we all know that.. I want to see what dry compounds at low doses will do.
and I'm NOT going to be running TEST at all.

heres what it is
500mg EQ
200mg Tren E
20mg day Var

whatever weight that I put back on is going to be real tissue retention/regeneration , and not a bunch of water weight. in fact with no test in there and running such dry compounds I may lose water weight at first. all the weight gained during this experiment will be muscle (and muscle glycogen), no bloat.

My diet - super clean (again no bloat), with a slight calorie surplus

My training - another experiment here. I'll be doing a high frequency full body training split. figured what better time then to try something very different for me.

workout 1 - Chest, front delts, quads
workout 2 - Back, traps, rear delts, hamstrings
workout 3 - Arms, side delts, abs, calves

^ all high rep metabolite style training
then repeat those same 3 workouts but with lower rep mechanical tension style workouts. then do it all again.

my intensity will be fairly low as I'll have to work around some injuries. so I'll have to focus on volume.



when life kicks you in the ass you gotta just come up with a game plan and do something. don't just sit around and wallow in the bullshit thats going on around you.

[HoldMyBeer]

UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.

time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.

so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.

TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).


so what we going to do now.
EXPERIMENT again. thats what I do.

my experiment is this. I'm going to see how much of that 25 pounds I can gain back running only DRY compounds and long esters and very low doses.. now could I run wet bulking short ester compounds at high doses and "blow up" , sure. but we all know that.. I want to see what dry compounds at low doses will do.
and I'm NOT going to be running TEST at all.

heres what it is
500mg EQ
200mg Tren E
20mg day Var

whatever weight that I put back on is going to be real tissue retention/regeneration , and not a bunch of water weight. in fact with no test in there and running such dry compounds I may lose water weight at first. all the weight gained during this experiment will be muscle (and muscle glycogen), no bloat.

My diet - super clean (again no bloat), with a slight calorie surplus

My training - another experiment here. I'll be doing a high frequency full body training split. figured what better time then to try something very different for me.

workout 1 - Chest, front delts, quads
workout 2 - Back, traps, rear delts, hamstrings
workout 3 - Arms, side delts, abs, calves

^ all high rep metabolite style training
then repeat those same 3 workouts but with lower rep mechanical tension style workouts. then do it all again.

my intensity will be fairly low as I'll have to work around some injuries. so I'll have to focus on volume.



when life kicks you in the ass you gotta just come up with a game plan and do something. don't just sit around and wallow in the bullshit thats going on around you.

Glad to have you back GH

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

[kelkel]

heres what it is
500mg EQ
200mg Tren E
20mg day Var

TRT dose of test as well or no?

[GearHeaded]

TRT dose of test as well or no?

no. want see what the anabolics can do by themselves. the tren will provide the androgen. only thing I'm concerned about with no test in there is estrogen. though the EQ will aromatize to a small degree at first, that will taper off, and with no test in there my e levels will go down (the eq can't aromatize near to the degree of test and keep up with it, so my e levels will go down). then of course DHT will go down as well (will be taking 10mg of creatine a day to help)

easy fix if it goes bad though, got test prop on hand.

[balance]

Excellent to see you back at it! This experiment sounds extremely interesting. I have a feeling it’s going to work really well for someone who has (recently) already had the tissue but I do wonder how such a low E2 run would work for supporting new growth. I know while it’s strongly not recommended I actually have seen some fairly successful anavar only runs so it must be possible to a degree. I’m guessing your going to skip cardio with this experiment?


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[charger69]

no. want see what the anabolics can do by themselves. the tren will provide the androgen. only thing I'm concerned about with no test in there is estrogen. though the EQ will aromatize to a small degree at first, that will taper off, and with no test in there my e levels will go down (the eq can't aromatize near to the degree of test and keep up with it, so my e levels will go down). then of course DHT will go down as well (will be taking 10mg of creatine a day to help)

easy fix if it goes bad though, got test prop on hand.

I’ll give you some of my weight!!! LOL


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[HoldMyBeer]

no. want see what the anabolics can do by themselves. the tren will provide the androgen. only thing I'm concerned about with no test in there is estrogen. though the EQ will aromatize to a small degree at first, that will taper off, and with no test in there my e levels will go down (the eq can't aromatize near to the degree of test and keep up with it, so my e levels will go down). then of course DHT will go down as well (will be taking 10mg of creatine a day to help)

easy fix if it goes bad though, got test prop on hand.

Is converting test to estro the only way we are able to produce it?

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[99JT]

good to see your back at it

[GearHeaded]

Is converting test to estro the only way we are able to produce it?

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no, but its the most 'natural' way. I could actually run a very low dose of Dbol, like 10mg per day just to get some estrogen (yet have much more anabolic support dose for dose compared to testosterone). years ago, Dbol was used at 10mg per day as "TRT" (think early 60s)

[Chrisp83TRT]

UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.

time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.

so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.

TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).


so what we going to do now.
EXPERIMENT again. thats what I do.

my experiment is this. I'm going to see how much of that 25 pounds I can gain back running only DRY compounds and long esters and very low doses.. now could I run wet bulking short ester compounds at high doses and "blow up" , sure. but we all know that.. I want to see what dry compounds at low doses will do.
and I'm NOT going to be running TEST at all.

heres what it is
500mg EQ
200mg Tren E
20mg day Var

whatever weight that I put back on is going to be real tissue retention/regeneration , and not a bunch of water weight. in fact with no test in there and running such dry compounds I may lose water weight at first. all the weight gained during this experiment will be muscle (and muscle glycogen), no bloat.

My diet - super clean (again no bloat), with a slight calorie surplus

My training - another experiment here. I'll be doing a high frequency full body training split. figured what better time then to try something very different for me.

workout 1 - Chest, front delts, quads
workout 2 - Back, traps, rear delts, hamstrings
workout 3 - Arms, side delts, abs, calves

^ all high rep metabolite style training
then repeat those same 3 workouts but with lower rep mechanical tension style workouts. then do it all again.

my intensity will be fairly low as I'll have to work around some injuries. so I'll have to focus on volume.



when life kicks you in the ass you gotta just come up with a game plan and do something. don't just sit around and wallow in the bullshit thats going on around you.

Damn gear, I'm sorry to hear all of this. Glad to see you up and up despite what you've been going through.

Hope things progress in the right direction and will be following this cycle and training and im rooting for you man.

Stay awesome GH

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[Family_guy]

UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.

time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.

so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.

TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).


so what we going to do now.
EXPERIMENT again. thats what I do.

my experiment is this. I'm going to see how much of that 25 pounds I can gain back running only DRY compounds and long esters and very low doses.. now could I run wet bulking short ester compounds at high doses and "blow up" , sure. but we all know that.. I want to see what dry compounds at low doses will do.
and I'm NOT going to be running TEST at all.

heres what it is
500mg EQ
200mg Tren E
20mg day Var

whatever weight that I put back on is going to be real tissue retention/regeneration , and not a bunch of water weight. in fact with no test in there and running such dry compounds I may lose water weight at first. all the weight gained during this experiment will be muscle (and muscle glycogen), no bloat.

My diet - super clean (again no bloat), with a slight calorie surplus

My training - another experiment here. I'll be doing a high frequency full body training split. figured what better time then to try something very different for me.

workout 1 - Chest, front delts, quads
workout 2 - Back, traps, rear delts, hamstrings
workout 3 - Arms, side delts, abs, calves

^ all high rep metabolite style training
then repeat those same 3 workouts but with lower rep mechanical tension style workouts. then do it all again.

my intensity will be fairly low as I'll have to work around some injuries. so I'll have to focus on volume.



when life kicks you in the ass you gotta just come up with a game plan and do something. don't just sit around and wallow in the bullshit thats going on around you.

Shit man. Sorry to hear about all that. Glad you kicked your self in the ass and got up and going again and off the bottle!

I would love to hear why you think Test isn’t a great option for maintain muscle while cruising

[GearHeaded]

I would love to hear why you think Test isn’t a great option for maintain muscle while cruising

ok heres the reasons

when going into a cruise phase your goal should be to lower dosages dramatically (to improve health markers) and let your androgen receptors re-senstize. A secondary reason is to let estrogen levels come down some and let those receptors re-senstize. so you need to come off androgens and estrogen essentially.

well what is Testosterone , its NOT an anabolic steroid, its an androgen that also has a great propensity to estrogen conversion . two things we are trying to get away from.
we also want to get into much lower dosages then being on cycle. Well test Mg per Mg (compared to most steroids) is very weak anabolically and you have or run high dosages to equal equivalent dosages of other drugs. and again, its primarily an androgen. for every 100mg of anabolic load that you want your going to get at least 100mg androgenic load along with that (plus the estrogen we are trying to re-senstize from as well).

so to get a measly 500mg of Anabolic load to maintain muscle mass while cruising, with test you need to run at least 500mg to do that (I'd argue even more being test converts a lot to estrogen and converts a lot to the non anabolic androgen DHT , so with 500mg of test you don't even get that much actual test, but thats a whole other argument).
and again with the 500mg of test your getting a whole lot of androgen load , which is the very thing we are trying to limit and stay away from during a cruising phase.

now lets look at some actual anabolic steroids. how about a very mild one like Var. well its up to 6 times as anabolic as test is, with virtually zero androgen load.. so a measly 100mg of Var per week (very very low dose) is as anabolic as 500mg of test, yet has no estrogen and not androgen load. thats exactly what we want when cruising. HIGH anabolic load (which is what maintains muscle) and low estrogen conversion.
Or look at primobolan. even though on paper its only as anabolic as test, its benefit is that its not androgenic or estrogenic. you can cruise on 500mg of primo per week, get all the anabolic benefits, and reset the things your trying to reset.
I could give more examples.

it really is the androgen load of cycles that we are trying to get away from and re-senstive while cruising.. running androgens makes no sense to use as a primary compound to cruise on. again test is a pure androgen.

something like primo or var you can run low dose year round and never really de-senstize to it. its merely going to keep protein synthesis high and nitrogen retention high the whole time your on it and thus keep muscle retention high.
thats what we are after when cruising. maintaining/retaining muscle while allowing various other factors to re-sensitze.


I generally recommend running a low TRT dose of test, 150mg per week.. then cruise on an anabolic steroid. like 300mg per week of Primo or EQ.
stay away from androgens and things that convert to estrogen to allow your body to reset during the cruise phase.

for experienced AAS users the 'sweet spot' for testosterone to really be anabolic on its own is around 1000-1200 mg per week.. (unless combined with other AAS). thats not acceptable as a low dosage cruise and is going to be providing way way to much androgen load to ever re-senstize. thats being on cycle , not a cruise phase.

Stick to the anabolics instead.

my 2 cents

[GearHeaded]

Excellent to see you back at it! This experiment sounds extremely interesting. I have a feeling it’s going to work really well for someone who has (recently) already had the tissue but I do wonder how such a low E2 run would work for supporting new growth. I know while it’s strongly not recommended I actually have seen some fairly successful anavar only runs so it must be possible to a degree. I’m guessing your going to skip cardio with this experiment?

theres no doubt in my mind that using test just to get more estrogen conversion would help myself, or anyone grow better. theres been countless anecdotal evidence to support this, as well as plenty of studies done showing that combining high levels of estrogen when androgens (AAS) are administered equals much better growth.

so I already know this. but I'm an "experimenter". I need to try things out that I don't know yet.. really I often times don't run the most optimal cycles for myself. I spend lots of time experimenting. the reason for this is that I'm in my 40s, I've had multiple surgeries and health issues, etc.. and I'm never going to be a great bodybuilder. my days have past. BUT I can experiment and learn and make myself a much better coach.

so I'd rather run cycles and experiment with things that better enlighten my knowledge more then simply transform my physique.
I can never pass my physique along to other people, however I can pass my knowledge and experiences along to others and help them

as for cardio. I never "don't" do cardio.. I feel when you get into your late 30s or so, cholesterol and cardiac risks goes up , having a habit of cardio (even daily) has many health benefits.
heres an experiment.. have elevated cholesterol ? well don't change your diet or your supplements, just simply do 40 mins of fasted cardio every day for 6 weeks straight and go get your blood work done and lets see if those numbers have dropped. its possible they will.

[charger69]

I know that any AAS can be used for gain or cutting, however I don’t understand why you are using dry compounds. I use these for cutting. Your workout combo also surprises me. This is something that I would use for cutting however your trying to gain weight.
Without a test base, your free T is going to plummet as well as your total T.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jolter604]

ok heres the reasons

when going into a cruise phase your goal should be to lower dosages dramatically (to improve health markers) and let your androgen receptors re-senstize. A secondary reason is to let estrogen levels come down some and let those receptors re-senstize. so you need to come off androgens and estrogen essentially.

well what is Testosterone , its NOT an anabolic steroid, its an androgen that also has a great propensity to estrogen conversion . two things we are trying to get away from.
we also want to get into much lower dosages then being on cycle. Well test Mg per Mg (compared to most steroids) is very weak anabolically and you have or run high dosages to equal equivalent dosages of other drugs. and again, its primarily an androgen. for every 100mg of anabolic load that you want your going to get at least 100mg androgenic load along with that (plus the estrogen we are trying to re-senstize from as well).

so to get a measly 500mg of Anabolic load to maintain muscle mass while cruising, with test you need to run at least 500mg to do that (I'd argue even more being test converts a lot to estrogen and converts a lot to the non anabolic androgen DHT , so with 500mg of test you don't even get that much actual test, but thats a whole other argument).
and again with the 500mg of test your getting a whole lot of androgen load , which is the very thing we are trying to limit and stay away from during a cruising phase.

now lets look at some actual anabolic steroids. how about a very mild one like Var. well its up to 6 times as anabolic as test is, with virtually zero androgen load.. so a measly 100mg of Var per week (very very low dose) is as anabolic as 500mg of test, yet has no estrogen and not androgen load. thats exactly what we want when cruising. HIGH anabolic load (which is what maintains muscle) and low estrogen conversion.
Or look at primobolan. even though on paper its only as anabolic as test, its benefit is that its not androgenic or estrogenic. you can cruise on 500mg of primo per week, get all the anabolic benefits, and reset the things your trying to reset.
I could give more examples.

it really is the androgen load of cycles that we are trying to get away from and re-senstive while cruising.. running androgens makes no sense to use as a primary compound to cruise on. again test is a pure androgen.

something like primo or var you can run low dose year round and never really de-senstize to it. its merely going to keep protein synthesis high and nitrogen retention high the whole time your on it and thus keep muscle retention high.
thats what we are after when cruising. maintaining/retaining muscle while allowing various other factors to re-sensitze.


I generally recommend running a low TRT dose of test, 150mg per week.. then cruise on an anabolic steroid. like 300mg per week of Primo or EQ.
stay away from androgens and things that convert to estrogen to allow your body to reset during the cruise phase.

for experienced AAS users the 'sweet spot' for testosterone to really be anabolic on its own is around 1000-1200 mg per week.. (unless combined with other AAS). thats not acceptable as a low dosage cruise and is going to be providing way way to much androgen load to ever re-senstize. thats being on cycle , not a cruise phase.

Stick to the anabolics instead.

my 2 cents

What about 125mg test for trt and 10mg anavar pre workout?
Or would be to much test?

[GearHeaded]

I know that any AAS can be used for gain or cutting, however I don’t understand why you are using dry compounds. I use these for cutting. Your workout combo also surprises me. This is something that I would use for cutting however your trying to gain weight.
Without a test base, your free T is going to plummet as well as your total T.

well a lot of the things we know come down from others as well as is speculation .. do we ever really really test these things on ourself. much of the time we don't and we just accept what we think is common practice.
I'd rather do things different and find out for myself then go by an online steroid profile which has the soul purpose of selling ad space then it does to actually teach anyone the truth about the steroid its writing about.
most sites that teach about AAS that have ads on them, just stay away their usually BS. the real truth about AAS is often found in old medical journals and articles (no ads) written for the medical community (not the steroid community)
anyhow, thats a rant in itself.

to get to the questions posed..
so the reason I'm only running dry compounds is to test out how well they work at actually regenerating muscle tissue. we already know that wet compounds work great at adding size and muscle fullness.. so why should I not take this perfect opportunity and just see how well dry compounds work.

my workout split - again we all know that hitting a single muscle group hard and then letting it recover is ideal for growth. I don't need to try out what I already know.. so what I'm going to do is use the blood flow / pump method and see how well that works. I don't think at this stage I really need to tear apart and break down muscle tissue to grow. All I need to do is drive as much blood and nutrients into the muscle as possible and as OFTEN as possible to help regenerate and restore muscle tissue. the more blood I can pump the more nutrients I can bring in the better, and the more muscle groups I can hit, as often as possible, the quicker the regeneration should occur.
at this stage if I only hit one muscle group , like chest, once per week, the growth process would take way longer. again I'm not that far removed from where I was (only 6 weeks).. if I can get blood and nutrients into my chest, and multiple other body parts a whole bunch of times per week, then the faster things should happen.

regarding free T crashing with no test. yes this is likely to happen.. but whats that going to really do in this case ? a small amount of free T from a natty dose of test doesn't build muscle anyhow.. I've got 500mg of a test derivative, EQ, to give me plenty of anabolic load (and bind to androgen receptors at a very fast rate). 200mg of Tren that will act as androgenic as 1000mg of test, and anavar lowering SHBG and freeing up everything to bind to receptors without being gobbled up by SHBG.. do I really need a minisucule amount of free T to really do anything for me?

the estrogen is the only thing I'm worried about.. and as I said above I can just throw in 10mg of Dbol per day to get some estrogen.


I'm really just looking to experiment right now. lets see what can be learned . I don't need to repeat things I already know works for dozens of guys.
eg., I know running a TRT dose of test with your cycles works great for pretty much everyone .. lets see what happens with no test in this scenario. we all can learn a something from it I bet

[GearHeaded]

What about 125mg test for trt and 10mg anavar pre workout?
Or would be to much test?

no thats not too much test by any means.. thats going to give you the same levels that your neighbor who is totally natural has. its going to give your normal T levels, which are not at all high enough to de-senstize you or provide too much androgen load.
as for the VAR, being we are after mainly muscle retention in a cruise phase, would be best to run it at about 20mg per day (140 per week) and just run it consistently daily.

[Family_guy]

well a lot of the things we know come down from others as well as is speculation .. do we ever really really test these things on ourself. much of the time we don't and we just accept what we think is common practice.
I'd rather do things different and find out for myself then go by an online steroid profile which has the soul purpose of selling ad space then it does to actually teach anyone the truth about the steroid its writing about.
most sites that teach about AAS that have ads on them, just stay away their usually BS. the real truth about AAS is often found in old medical journals and articles (no ads) written for the medical community (not the steroid community)
anyhow, thats a rant in itself.

to get to the questions posed..
so the reason I'm only running dry compounds is to test out how well they work at actually regenerating muscle tissue. we already know that wet compounds work great at adding size and muscle fullness.. so why should I not take this perfect opportunity and just see how well dry compounds work.

my workout split - again we all know that hitting a single muscle group hard and then letting it recover is ideal for growth. I don't need to try out what I already know.. so what I'm going to do is use the blood flow / pump method and see how well that works. I don't think at this stage I really need to tear apart and break down muscle tissue to grow. All I need to do is drive as much blood and nutrients into the muscle as possible and as OFTEN as possible to help regenerate and restore muscle tissue. the more blood I can pump the more nutrients I can bring in the better, and the more muscle groups I can hit, as often as possible, the quicker the regeneration should occur.
at this stage if I only hit one muscle group , like chest, once per week, the growth process would take way longer. again I'm not that far removed from where I was (only 6 weeks).. if I can get blood and nutrients into my chest, and multiple other body parts a whole bunch of times per week, then the faster things should happen.

regarding free T crashing with no test. yes this is likely to happen.. but whats that going to really do in this case ? a small amount of free T from a natty dose of test doesn't build muscle anyhow.. I've got 500mg of a test derivative, EQ, to give me plenty of anabolic load (and bind to androgen receptors at a very fast rate). 200mg of Tren that will act as androgenic as 1000mg of test, and anavar lowering SHBG and freeing up everything to bind to receptors without being gobbled up by SHBG.. do I really need a minisucule amount of free T to really do anything for me?

the estrogen is the only thing I'm worried about.. and as I said above I can just throw in 10mg of Dbol per day to get some estrogen.


I'm really just looking to experiment right now. lets see what can be learned . I don't need to repeat things I already know works for dozens of guys.
eg., I know running a TRT dose of test with your cycles works great for pretty much everyone .. lets see what happens with no test in this scenario. we all can learn a something from it I bet

This is very exciting to me! Everyone says “can’t run anything without test base!!!!!” Arnold did it without test right? I’m very excited to see your results gear!

[jolter604]

no thats not too much test by any means.. thats going to give you the same levels that your neighbor who is totally natural has. its going to give your normal T levels, which are not at all high enough to de-senstize you or provide too much androgen load.
as for the VAR, being we are after mainly muscle retention in a cruise phase, would be best to run it at about 20mg per day (140 per week) and just run it consistently daily.

Thsnks for replying man this is my first trt and i want to do it right so ehrn i jump back on i maintained size and can gain more when i get on without burning out my receptors.
Some say 200 mg test butni wanted to start low
And prevent my rbc from going threw the roof.

[GearHeaded]

Thsnks for replying man this is my first trt and i want to do it right so ehrn i jump back on i maintained size and can gain more when i get on without burning out my receptors.
Some say 200 mg test butni wanted to start low
And prevent my rbc from going threw the roof.

yeah adding an anabolic like Var or primo to your TRT 'cruise' phase is the best way to go to maintain gains made on cycle..

adding in a synergestic non AAS growth factor stack on top of that can even help make gains while off cycle.. like a HGH, T4, Clen, Insulin, combo. can make gains off of that and its not AAS and will allow you to be 'off cycle' and resetting ARs and health factors while still growing.
see here
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...-bridging.html

[Proximal]

Glad to have you back GH!

[Family_guy]

yeah adding an anabolic like Var or primo to your TRT 'cruise' phase is the best way to go to maintain gains made on cycle..

adding in a synergestic non AAS growth factor stack on top of that can even help make gains while off cycle.. like a HGH, T4, Clen, Insulin, combo. can make gains off of that and its not AAS and will allow you to be 'off cycle' and resetting ARs and health factors while still growing.
see here
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...-bridging.html

So I was reading that other thread about cycle bridging. Very interesting.

I have a question about doing just the one pct per year. I know we’ve talked briefly about this but could you give an example of what that would look like for someone like me who doesn’t want to TRT yet but also doesn’t want to just do a basic 12 week cycle.

[Obs]

yeah adding an anabolic like Var or primo to your TRT 'cruise' phase is the best way to go to maintain gains made on cycle..

adding in a synergestic non AAS growth factor stack on top of that can even help make gains while off cycle.. like a HGH, T4, Clen, Insulin, combo. can make gains off of that and its not AAS and will allow you to be 'off cycle' and resetting ARs and health factors while still growing.
see here
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...-bridging.html

I would like to hear your thoughs on hgh more.
I have never used it but want to run 6iu ed for a year of so. Cost is all that stops me

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Cost is all that stops me

I hear that...