genetics potential

[Noname81]

Hi

I had a question about genetic potential. From what I understand after a cycle and proper PTC the body will end up at its genetic potential after the cycle(Assuming genetic potential was reached)The only way to pass my genetic potential is to increase doses. Is this some what accurate? Could I cycle until genetic potential is reached then maintain with training and food?

Thanks

[GearHeaded]

altering genetic potential is more about altering various growth factors then it is about just increasing dosage ..

lets say 500mg of test gets your to 200 pounds and you stay stuck there.. then 1000mg of test gets you to 210. then 2000mg gets you to 215 pounds . then at some point 3000mg of test does nothing more for you.

you need to then start hitting various growth factors to continue moving past genetic potential..

so stick with your 2000mg of test that got you to 215 pounds , but NOW add in HGH and Insulin. those will hit other growth factors to push you beyond what you could . then after that add in actual IGF.. then add in metabolic help by adding in something like T4 and Clen. Then add in some Winstrol which will blunt Cortisol.. then add in some Carderine which works through a totally different pathway then AAS .. etc etc.. and then one day maybe another pathway we may have at out disposal is Myostatin inhibition .

now your suddenly 265 pounds and way pass your genetic potential

it wasn't about just upping your dosages. its hitting every anabolic growth pathway from every possible angle

[Noname81]

I see. Sounds a little bit confusing because I have not even heard of half of those haha. I do understand the idea of hitting every angle. As of now I feel like I am maxed with out TRT. I was going to start with ( My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle.) This is a sticky. Seems like a simple approach for my first cycle. After that I could expand. I would like to see how my body responds to Test first.

[GearHeaded]

well the simplest way to think about it is to make a check list . muscle grows beyond genetic limits based on say 10 separate mechanisms of action. Testosterone only checks off 2 of those things on the check list. so you will only get so far because 8 other spots will never be checked off and you'll never go that far.

testosterone mainly works by checking the marks on the check list of the androgen and estrogen receptors. these both get stimulated simultaneously and initiates growth. (decide to take an AI with your test only cycle and now your down to only checking one mark off your list)..


by eventually adding in other compounds that work through much different mechanisms of action you begin checking much more off of your list until eventually you've hit muscle building from every possible angle . so again upping dosages by itself can't do that, its only checking one thing off your list . you need to fill in all the other aspects eventually (ie, to go way beyond your genetic potential).


so for example, HGH builds muscle way way different then testosterone does , insulin builds muscle way different then either HGH or testosterone .. anadrol builds muscle without having to bind to androgen receptors, while Dbol does have to bind to androgen receptors . T4 works via metabolic processes and doesn't have any concern for androgen receptors at all .. then all these different things together can enhance eachother. like pouring gasoline on a fire.

so eventually by using all various aspects of muscle building chemistry together you can push way past your genetic potential then you can by using something like just Test


of course give yourself time, years, to work up to that matrix of chemistry . I'm just saying IF you wanted to go way past your genetic potential its much more complicated then simply upping your dosage

[ghettoboyd]

I believe his question is if he uses steroids to hit his natty potential whatever that may be can he revert back to natty and stay at that level without continuing steroids...my opinion is yes if you continue to eat enough for your new weight...usually people use aaa to get past the genetic limits using techniques gearheaded laid out in previous posts...what he is suggesting is too advanced for those just starting out...imho

[Noname81]

I believe his question is if he uses steroids to hit his natty potential whatever that may be can he revert back to natty and stay at that level without continuing steroids...my opinion is yes if you continue to eat enough for your new weight...usually people use aaa to get past the genetic limits using techniques gearheaded laid out in previous posts...what he is suggesting is too advanced for those just starting out...imho

Ya. I want to try a cycle. A very basic cycle. The one sticky called my first cycle is what I was looking at

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ya. I want to try a cycle. A very basic cycle. The one sticky called my first cycle is what I was looking at

Age, stats, training experience?

Did you say you were already on TRT?

[GearHeaded]

Ya. I want to try a cycle. A very basic cycle. The one sticky called my first cycle is what I was looking at

just an fyi - the first cycle sticky you may be referring to calls for using an AI from day one along side a long ester Test.. thats not a good idea, lots of guys run into problems doing that

[Myers]

just an fyi - the first cycle sticky you may be referring to calls for using an AI from day one along side a long ester Test.. thats not a good idea, lots of guys run into problems doing that

Im not using ai this time following GHs advice, what i noticed is:
More strength gains
More size gains
Feeling better overall
Way less anxiety issues which is most important for me, cause anxiety rly fks me up
Nolva at 10mg a day is great, i run 20 cause of adrol, will reduce to 10 after im done with adrol

[Noname81]

just an fyi - the first cycle sticky you may be referring to calls for using an AI from day one along side a long ester Test.. thats not a good idea, lots of guys run into problems doing that

Ok good to know. Keep the HCG in the first cycle?

[Noname81]

Age, stats, training experience?

Did you say you were already on TRT?

I have no experience with running cycles. I have reached plateau being natural.
I am 6’4 280 lbs. My body fat % is about 20 according to scale at the gym. Not sure if that is super accurate. I am 37.

[HoldMyBeer]

I have no experience with running cycles. I have reached plateau being natural.
I am 6’4 280 lbs. My body fat % is about 20 according to scale at the gym. Not sure if that is super accurate. I am 37.

Idk about that body fat %... That means you would be 245ish if you were in competition shape

[GearHeaded]

Ok good to know. Keep the HCG in the first cycle?

yes . but you don't have to start that from day one either (won't hurt though if you did). you can just run it from like week 6 up until the day you start pct

[Noname81]

Idk about that body fat %... That means you would be 245ish if you were in competition shape

Ya I used one of those body fat scales at my gym. Not to sure how accurate they are. If I had another scale to compare it with I would have a better idea.

[Noname81]

Ok that makes sense. Some people were running it from day. I like the idea of starting it later 6 weeks to PTC

[Obs]

I believe his question is if he uses steroids to hit his natty potential whatever that may be can he revert back to natty and stay at that level without continuing steroids...my opinion is yes if you continue to eat enough for your new weight...usually people use aaa to get past the genetic limits using techniques gearheaded laid out in previous posts...what he is suggesting is too advanced for those just starting out...imho

In my opinion no way.
Remove the supplement and it will fade.
Especially on a newb that cycles. Regardless of training and food.

It takes it to get there it takes close to maintain it.

[Myers]

In my opinion no way.
Remove the supplement and it will fade.
Especially on a newb that cycles. Regardless of training and food.

It takes it to get there it takes close to maintain it.

Tbh never lost strength or size gains from the cycle i did before
Even though i didnt train for a year or eat correctly
When i started eating and training again, i got to that size quickly, muscle memory i guess
But im 192 cm, and got a large frame, i can put on a lot of mass, depends on ur genetic potential how much muscle u can hold id say
My father was pro weightlifter, cycled when he was in his tweinties, hes 51 now, still huge

[sv.elia]

Hi

I had a question about genetic potential. From what I understand after a cycle and proper PTC the body will end up at its genetic potential after the cycle(Assuming genetic potential was reached)The only way to pass my genetic potential is to increase doses. Is this some what accurate? Could I cycle until genetic potential is reached then maintain with training and food?

Thanks

From my understanding: some don't reach their genetic potential even after a first cycle. Depends on where you start. If you reach your genetic potential using aas, you will keep your gains if you train and eat properly. If you go over your genetic potential using aas and you quit the usage entirely, you will go back to your genetic potential and mentain it as long as you keep training and eating accordingly. And you won't stay above your genetic potential for a long while if you quit cycling entirely.

At least that's what I read somewhere and I give it some credibility because it makes sense.

[GearHeaded]

it all depends on what you use to get to your "genetic potential" or what you use to blow past your genetic potential .

if your a 170 pound guy with ok genetics and you run 500mg of test cycles for a few years to build a decent physique at 190 . you have a much stronger chance of holding onto those gains .

if the same 170 pound guy has an advanced coach that has him using every single angle of the "anabolic matrix" from various AAS being stacked in advanced ways, growth factors, IGF, metabolic support, insulin, and in a few years the guy has built an awesome 235 pound jacked physique way past his genetic potential . then when coming off everything there is little to no chance he is going to maintain those kind of gains without anabolic support

[Noname81]

From my understanding: some don't reach their genetic potential even after a first cycle. Depends on where you start. If you reach your genetic potential using aas, you will keep your gains if you train and eat properly. If you go over your genetic potential using aas and you quit the usage entirely, you will go back to your genetic potential and mentain it as long as you keep training and eating accordingly. And you won't stay above your genetic potential for a long while if you quit cycling entirely.

At least that's what I read somewhere and I give it some credibility because it makes sense.

This was also my thoughts on gentic potential. It does make sense. The only way to stay above genetic potential is to run cycles or blast and Cruze. Obviously training and diet

[Obs]

Tbh never lost strength or size gains from the cycle i did before
Even though i didnt train for a year or eat correctly
When i started eating and training again, i got to that size quickly, muscle memory i guess
But im 192 cm, and got a large frame, i can put on a lot of mass, depends on ur genetic potential how much muscle u can hold id say
My father was pro weightlifter, cycled when he was in his tweinties, hes 51 now, still huge

Were you fat or stagnant before?

I never done that so I dont know.
Always worked my ass off. Not like a normal 'mans' work either.

Anyway coming off after putting on 30 lbs the first go around you can expect the mass to leave very fast if you stop lifting

I dont mean four or even 12 weeks so I guess it would depend on previous activities before cycling.

All I know is I been here 12 years and watch guys blow up 30 lbs, pct, and be back at squate one in a matter of months.

I hear guys talking about maintaining the gains off cycle but I never see it.
Ever.

[Myers]

Were you fat or stagnant before?

I never done that so I dont know.
Always worked my ass off. Not like a normal 'mans' work either.

Anyway coming off after putting on 30 lbs the first go around you can expect the mass to leave very fast if you stop lifting

I dont mean four or even 12 weeks so I guess it would depend on previous activities before cycling.

All I know is I been here 12 years and watch guys blow up 30 lbs, pct, and be back at squate one in a matter of months.

I hear guys talking about maintaining the gains off cycle but I never see it.
Ever.

Nah, ive just had low T and had problems to put on muscle, since getting on trt im very satisfied with progress, im on nebido every 9 weeks

I stopped lifting due to life issues, but was lifting for 3 years consistently, in my gym, most of the guys cycle and as far as ive seen, keep their gains

As i said, i came back to lifting 10 months ago, bulked, then cut and i had most of my gains back, strength too, did it on trt only

Im a firm believer in muscle memory and being able to keep what was genetically meant for your metabolism

My dad is still huge, althougj at around 23 24 bf, and hes at 130kg,didnt cycle for 20 years probably, was a competitive weightlifter
His dad was a weightlifter too
I guess it depends on ur frame and metabolism

[jackfrost88]

Seems to be the larger, beyond what you could get to naturally, the more anabolic support you need to keep your mass. If you come off, you will lose it faster as well. However, I think it is a lot harder to reach your natural potential than people think. Very few people will exhaust every option naturally and even reach their natural potential. There isn't an arbitrary number like when you reach 200 at 10%bf at 6' that you have now hit the switch and anything more requires drugs.

To a similar point, genetics can mean a whole host of things and I see people take it to mean your overall physique. When in fact there are many genetic factors such as, your frame (height, broad shoulders, narrow hips/waist), muscle bellies (low attaching lats, shape of your chest, how much of a sweep on your quads etc.), how shredded you can get (even some pro bodybuilders will never nail their conditioning), even the thickness of your skin on stage. Then there is your response to drugs, and even further to certain drugs (many bodybuilders swear by EQ and run it year round, other's think its garbage and never run it).

You could have great muscle bellies but a mediocre frame (Like Phil Heath with his narrow shoulders) but still be a top all time bodybuilder.

So there are so many genetic factors that it is almost hopeless to just be like, Hey this guy has good or bad genetics. It really depends. Maybe you have the ability to get super ultra sub 3% body fat shredded but you've never even cut before so you just think you got shafted int he gene lotto because it's hard to gain mass and you don;t eat enough.

To your original point - there is an element of truth but it is near impossible to know where that genetic limit is.

[Kiza]

just an fyi - the first cycle sticky you may be referring to calls for using an AI from day one along side a long ester Test.. thats not a good idea, lots of guys run into problems doing that

But there must be guys that don't run into problems doing that? There also must be guys that run into trouble because of NOT doing that?

I have to postpone the start of my first test e cycle for a few weeks. But I never stopped reading and trying to learn. I have generalized epilepsy. Under controle with meds for years, not a single seizure after the original 3 in 15 months span, like I said, years ago.

I know. I shouldn't cycle. The things that lower the seizure treshold are hcg. And elevated estrogen! Is there any reason for me not to run AI from the start?

Thanks, sorry for hijacking.

[Noname81]

But there must be guys that don't run into problems doing that? There also must be guys that run into trouble because of NOT doing that?

I have to postpone the start of my first test e cycle for a few weeks. But I never stopped reading and trying to learn. I have generalized epilepsy. Under controle with meds for years, not a single seizure after the original 3 in 15 months span, like I said, years ago.

I know. I shouldn't cycle. The things that lower the seizure treshold are hcg. And elevated estrogen! Is there any reason for me not to run AI from the start?

Thanks, sorry for hijacking.

Seems like once again the answer comes down to blood work.

[GearHeaded]

But there must be guys that don't run into problems doing that? There also must be guys that run into trouble because of NOT doing that?

I have to postpone the start of my first test e cycle for a few weeks. But I never stopped reading and trying to learn. I have generalized epilepsy. Under controle with meds for years, not a single seizure after the original 3 in 15 months span, like I said, years ago.

I know. I shouldn't cycle. The things that lower the seizure treshold are hcg. And elevated estrogen! Is there any reason for me not to run AI from the start?

Thanks, sorry for hijacking.

the answer to your main question is very simple .. think about it . IF you want to keep your estrogen levels low , then do NOT run steroids that aromatize and are estrogenic . its that simple no one says you have to run estrogenic compounds . heck most steroids available to us don't convert to estrogen in the first place . no need to fuck with an AI (and have all those side effects) . just run drugs that don't aromatize

like -
Primobolan
Masteron
Var
Winstrol
Superdol
Tbol
DHB
EQ

etc.. the list goes on.

you have plenty of choices .



to answer you other questions . most guys get the most gains and have the most successful cycles who are not estrogen sensitive and can run a cycle with elevated estrogen levels without using an AI . most guys that are genetically prone to put on the most muscle are not estrogen sensitive, don't need AI's, and can actually grow way more muscle with elevated estrogen.

IF you have to keep your E levels low for medical reasons . then again don't mess with running estrogen based AAS in the first place . you'll do just fine with the plethora of other AAS that are not estrogenic

[GearHeaded]

Seems like once again the answer comes down to blood work.

bloodwork simply provides you with some small details . it doesn't actually do anything for you though .. its like having a grocery list. you have the details on paper , but until you take action to go buy the actual food and eat it, theres no nutrition coming in.

kinda why I don't get why guys get mid cycle blood work and check their total test levels and E2 levels . whats the point ? I mean shit if your injecting 1000mg of test per week your Test levels on blood work are going to be sky high and so should your estrogen, thats a given, ,why do you need a piece of paper to tell you what you already know

[Cuz]

Idk about that body fat %... That means you would be 245ish if you were in competition shape

Thats why “stats” are fuckin pointless. Ive said it from day one its not your “stats” that matter its how you look. To argue the point I will agre that stats do give you an idea but still, in person appearance will always be number 1 . Ok rant over