Why is there this demand in the world to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan?

[JaneDoe]

I find myself wondering if all this pressure doesn't revolve around gynocentrism? If the president of Afghanistan himself fled refusing to fight, why would troops from other countries have to die in that country that adds nothing?
There is a speech that women and children die in that country, but I wonder how many American reservists lost their lives in a war that was not theirs leaving their wives and children?

[Mr. Small]

The Russians fairly cleaned up bad guys in Syria in exchange for oil rights, maybe the could expand their business ��

[wango]

Hey the Taliban can’t be all that bad. After all, Rambo himself came to their aid in the 80’s. On a serious note, Osama kept tempting us into the country with “smaller bombings” such as the Cole and the embassies & expressed his frustration that we didn’t invade yet. He knew the place was a money & man-power pit after the British and particularly Russia failed. He quickly understood that the terrain & the tenacity, patience and resiliency of the warriors there were a damn tough combination. 20 years later, he’s laughing somewhere in the afterlife. Why the heck we aren’t attempting air-strikes on any abandoned weapons and equipment (surly not used by the Afghan army, ) is beyond me.

[almostgone]

Jeez....ok.

Since the Taliban gained control of Afghanistan, they have consistently been a haven for terrorism, particularly Al-Qaeda, which they allowed to build training bases on Afghanistan.

Their interpretation of Qur‘anic law advocates some of the most violent abuses of human rights...period.

Despite claiming they are against opium production, the Taliban reap huge profits off of the Afghan opium trade and enable a vast amount of the world's heroin trade.

They also funnel profits from their drug trade to various subset terrorist organizations. Oddly enough, they don't care for Da'esh.

https://www.dni.gov/nctc/groups/afghan_taliban.html

[SampsonandDelilah]

^^^^ this

[wango]

I find myself wondering if all this pressure doesn't revolve around gynocentrism? If the president of Afghanistan himself fled refusing to fight, why would troops from other countries have to die in that country that adds nothing?
There is a speech that women and children die in that country, but I wonder how many American reservists lost their lives in a war that was not theirs leaving their wives and children?

I’m just glad we’re almost out Davi. A shame this current possibility wasn’t planned for, really a mess left getting folks out.

[almostgone]

I’m just glad we’re almost out Davi. A shame this current possibility wasn’t planned for, really a mess left getting folks out.

Actually, the plans were already in place, but they were ordered scrapped on June 11.

[wango]

Actually, the plans were already in place, but they were ordered scrapped on June 11.

Poor wording on my part. I had meant, planning for the possibility that the Taliban could progress so quickly and the Afghan army do so little in stopping them.

[almostgone]

Poor wording on my part. I had meant, planning for the possibility that the Taliban could progress so quickly and the Afghan army do so little in stopping them.

Gotcha. Unfortunately, that issue was also bought up, but the advice wasn't heeded.

Like y'all, I'm not making this a political party vs. political party incident. There will be time for looking back at and learning from our mistakes later on.

For now, let's just pray for the safety of the soldiers, contractors, American citizens, and the Afghan citizens and that they egress/evac safely.

This could quickly turn into a much worse tragedy. It's bad enough now, but unfortunately there's room for it to escalate further.

[wango]

Gotcha. Unfortunately, that issue was also bought up, but the advice wasn't heeded.

Like y'all, I'm not making this a political party vs. political party incident. There will be time for looking back at and learning from our mistakes later on.

For now, let's just pray for the safety of the soldiers, contractors, American citizens, and the Afghan citizens and that they egress/evac safely.

This could quickly turn into a much worse tragedy. It's bad enough now, but unfortunately there's room for it to escalate further.

Yup with you 100%. No interest in the blame game, hell how many administrations have been in office since we got involved in this place since the 80’s? Can you do me a favor though and point me in the direction of the possibility of this outcome being discussed/ignored and what evacuation plans were scrapped? Thanks AG, greatly appreciated! Yeah, this can get really much worse .

[almostgone]

Sure, but remember I'm not playing the political blame game. Just pointing out errors, ok?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...tled-ccr-kabul


Edit: There are a couple more of credible reports floating around that shows the elimination of the planning did in fact weaken capabilities. One even pointed out that the tracking of American locations in country were cut off.

Also, the administration seems to have a problem with contradictory data. It's something that we can learn from as well. i.e. the President dating there is no Al-Qaeda in Aghanistan, other parts saying yes there is, but they don't have an accurate assessment of the number.

There seems to be a huge disconnect that needs to be addressed so we can respond better should the need arise in the future.

Again, I'm not playing the political party game, just what has occurred.

[wango]

AG, I understand completely and am in agreement with you. Sometimes in the morning I miss stuff in the paper because I’m too hurried or in this case got fed up with the Afghan army’s inadequacy and moved on to more pleasant stuff like floods and fires, lol. Thank you for the resource, sincerely appreciated! I really hope your recovery is moving along well!

[almostgone]

AG, I understand completely and am in agreement with you. Sometimes in the morning I miss stuff in the paper because I’m too hurried or in this case got fed up with the Afghan army’s inadequacy and moved on to more pleasant stuff like floods and fires, lol. Thank you for the resource, sincerely appreciated! I really hope your recovery is moving along well!

Re: recovery. Much appreciated. One day at a time. It's taken me a while to fully appreciate what all was done.

If you want more information regarding the evacuation protocols, I believe Mike Pompeo had a hand in the planning when it was created and has recently done a couple of pressers regarding that subject.

[Albino el Mamba]

Didn't the CIA fund the Muslim brotherhood which the taliban flows from

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Honkey_Kong]

Gotcha. Unfortunately, that issue was also bought up, but the advice wasn't heeded.

Like y'all, I'm not making this a political party vs. political party incident. There will be time for looking back at and learning from our mistakes later on.

For now, let's just pray for the safety of the soldiers, contractors, American citizens, and the Afghan citizens and that they egress/evac safely.

This could quickly turn into a much worse tragedy. It's bad enough now, but unfortunately there's room for it to escalate further.

Our first mistake was going there. We didn't get anything out of this multi-trillion dollar war, except for some our young adults getting maimed and/or killed. I'm sure there's going to be some people harmed in the withdrawal, but it's at least going to be over soon.

As far as the Americans that are there, I really can't feel too bad for them. Whether they're soldiers, contractors or were there because family was, they knew what they were getting in to and they knew it could get very bad for them very quickly. They might not have known that the US was going to leave and screw up their withdrawal, but they knew the government puts incompetent shitbags in to positions of leadership, so this should've been expected.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

The thing I find most disconcerting about all this recent 'Taliban' news, is that the news agencies (or at least the English-speaking one's in Europe) are almost making it sound like the Taliban should be treated like they're just the rulers of just another country. It feels like they were a terrorist group 20 minutes ago, and now they're a governmental organisation. They'll have ambassadors next. They shouldn't be allowing the Taliban spokesman on news channels as though he were just another spokesperson.

I anticipate that the worldwide Afghan refugee migration will cause problems too. I remember about 15 years ago I was considering migrating to Australia, and I had to fill out a long form trying to convince the Australian government staff that they wanted me there, I had to say what my education and qualifications were, that I was in good health and capable of working. But when it comes to refugees, you're taking in all kinds of people -- most Afghans can't read or write (not even in their own language), bathe infrequently, and are obsessively religious. Dependence on opium is a problem too.

Some people hold the personal opinion that, as human beings, we have a duty of care to one another; some people think that we should be eager to take in refugees and show them a nice life. Other people such as myself are a little sceptical in that I've seen how a nice town can become overrun with unemployed immigrants (ever since Romania and Bulgaria joined the European Union meaning their citizens could travel freely to the UK).

One thing about having unskilled immigrants come into a semi-wealthy country is that some of the immigrants are willing to work very low-paid jobs in poor working conditions. The capitalists and profiteers among us would love this, and while it does bring money into a community, it doesn't really do any good for community spirit. Near where I live there's a chicken slaughter house that has a big huge production line with thousands of employees -- mostly Eastern Europeans working for about €5 an hour, and they are treated as disposable employees. Two years ago I had a bottom-of-the-barrel job working in a tyre warehouse moving around truck and tractor tyres, and while there's nothing wrong with clean honest hard work, the guys working in the office saw us as disposable labour (each worker was nothing more than a device that could produce 'man-hours of work'. They tried to fire 7 of us in a short space of time so I retaliated by ruining their business -- I didn't totally put them out of business but I think the company is only about a quarter of what it used to be. Still considering hitting them hard again, but if I do, it will be the day before I fly out of the country on holiday.

[almostgone]

Our first mistake was going there. We didn't get anything out of this multi-trillion dollar war, except for some our young adults getting maimed and/or killed. I'm sure there's going to be some people harmed in the withdrawal, but it's at least going to be over soon.

As far as the Americans that are there, I really can't feel too bad for them. Whether they're soldiers, contractors or were there because family was, they knew what they were getting in to and they knew it could get very bad for them very quickly. They might not have known that the US was going to leave and screw up their withdrawal, but they knew the government puts incompetent shitbags in to positions of leadership, so this should've been expected.

I don't think Americans or other foreigners would have expected the US to have handled it so badly. Even our own NATO allies are disgusted this debacle. In the end, the Taliban are freshly armed and it's business as usual....again.

As far as the original mission to Afghanistan it was very necessary and shut down quite a few terrorist training camps. Unfortunately, as usual, it devolved into the military bring forced to fight with one hand tied behind their back which prolonged things waaay longer than necessary.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

The USA should get the atomic bombs out again. Worked against Japan. Nobody would ever want to got to Afghanistan anyway, it's not like they had anything cool like the Samurai.

[almostgone]

The USA should get the atomic bombs out again. Worked against Japan. Nobody would ever want to got to Afghanistan anyway, it's not like they had anything cool like the Samurai.

I hope nuclear weapons are never used again. At this point they're necessary as a deterrent and I hope that's all they're useful for.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I hope nuclear weapons are never used again. At this point they're necessary as a deterrent and I hope that's all they're useful for.

Maybe my morals are lack-lustre, but if I were a military commander and if I believed that a terrorist group like the Taliban or Alqaeda had atomic bombs, I'd be happy to sacrifice all the civilians and just blanket-bomb the fuck out of the entire country with dozens of A-bombs. Fuck them. But maybe I'm a bad person and should be thinking of all the civilians and instead only use mundane missiles.

[almostgone]

Maybe my morals are lack-lustre, but if I were a military commander and if I believed that a terrorist group like the Taliban or Alqaeda had atomic bombs, I'd be happy to sacrifice all the civilians and just blanket-bomb the fuck out of the entire country with dozens of A-bombs. Fuck them. But maybe I'm a bad person and should be thinking of all the civilians and instead only use mundane missiles.

Not only is that genocide, but you fail to comprehend the geopolitics of the situation. So, not only is it genocide, it's suicide.

Look at the location of Afghanistan. It is bordered by Iran, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and a portion of China.

So, no, the "I'd turn the whole country to glass" approach is total dud. That's the whole thing with nuclear weapons. They're a deterrent. When one country launches, you just started a nuclear free for all.

[Chark]

So, no, the "I'd turn the whole country to glass" approach is total dud. That's the whole thing with nuclear weapons. They're a deterrent. When one country launches, you just started a nuclear free for all.

To your point, AG:

Mutual assured destruction (MAD) is a doctrine of military strategy and national security policy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two or more opposing sides would cause the complete annihilation of both the attacker and the defender. It is based on the theory of deterrence, which holds that the threat of using strong weapons against the enemy prevents the enemy's use of those same weapons. The strategy is a form of Nash equilibrium in which, once armed, neither side has any incentive to initiate a conflict or to disarm.

[wango]

As far as the Americans that are there, I really can't feel too bad for them. Whether they're soldiers, contractors or were there because family was, they knew what they were getting in to and they knew it could get very bad for them very quickly.

Ironically, this was in today’s times. I won’t say I do not feel bad for them, but in a case like this, I am questioning some of their judgement. Hey honey, where should we send the kids for Summer vacation? Hey, here’s an idea; let’s send them to Afghanistan

[almostgone]

To your point, AG:

Mutual assured destruction (MAD) is a doctrine of military strategy and national security policy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two or more opposing sides would cause the complete annihilation of both the attacker and the defender. It is based on the theory of deterrence, which holds that the threat of using strong weapons against the enemy prevents the enemy's use of those same weapons. The strategy is a form of Nash equilibrium in which, once armed, neither side has any incentive to initiate a conflict or to disarm.

Yes I'm very familiar and that's exactly what I posted and why you wouldn't want to pop a nuke in China's backyard. When one country plays, odd are everyone so equipped plays. Not to mention what Iran may or may not have.

Again, I'll state it. You don't want to play the nuclear game especially in that portion of the globe.

Go back and read my post and look at the countries bordering Afghanistan.

[almostgone]

Ironically, this was in today’s times. I won’t say I do not feel bad for them, but in a case like this, I am questioning some of their judgement. Hey honey, where should we send the kids for Summer vacation? Hey, here’s an idea; let’s send them to Afghanistan

Wow, what a shame.



Edit: Wango, when I say that, I purely mean that we disagree in our opinion. Nothing more.

[wango]

To your point, AG:

Mutual assured destruction (MAD) is a doctrine of military strategy and national security policy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two or more opposing sides would cause the complete annihilation of both the attacker and the defender. It is based on the theory of deterrence, which holds that the threat of using strong weapons against the enemy prevents the enemy's use of those same weapons. The strategy is a form of Nash equilibrium in which, once armed, neither side has any incentive to initiate a conflict or to disarm.

On my current reading list is a frightening little book written by two Colonels in China’s Army called “Unrestricted Warfare”. You better believe they know that nuclear is not the way. Why destroy natural resources when all you want is to kill or significantly weakened your enemy? Just into a third of it and philosophically, it doesn’t appear that anything should not be considered. This book was written in 1999 and it’s scary to think what has been thought of and done in the past 21 years by China. F with technology, information, the economy, biological weapons (and I’m just 1/3 into it!) - yup, gets the job done! And all of our pretty real estate & resources are left untouched.

Afghanistan is like fighting ants and cockroaches. When one of them boasts “you wear a watch, but we’ve got time” and they take pride in dying as martyrs, you got your hands filled. They laughed their asses off when they defeated Russia (with our help), but because we kept forces in Saudi Arabia and kept backing Israel so lopsidedly, we got Bin Ladin and the USA became the primary focus. To make this a special or new political issue now and to try to assess blame now is ridiculous.

[wango]

Wow, what a shame.



Edit: Wango, when I say that, I purely mean that we disagree in our opinion. Nothing more.

AG, you said that before and I’m not arguing. I’m agreeing with HK a bit because I’m wondering why if originally the pullout date set with the taliban was set for May, why there are so many civilians still there now.

[almostgone]

No doubt China has many alternatives so they can obtain more real estate/ resources, my point is to Kimbo's suggestion that Afghanistan should be nuked.

I'll stand by my logic. You don't want to pop off a nuke in China's back yard, and next door to Iran. One way or the other the nuclear option will come into play.

[almostgone]

Off to the shop to sweat out some PT and do a project or two.

[almostgone]

AG, you said that before and I’m not arguing. I’m agreeing with HK a bit because I’m wondering why if originally the pullout date set with the taliban was set for May, why there are so many civilians still there now.

I didn't want you to think I was arguing or being an a-hole...or more of an a-hole than usual.

[wango]

I didn't want you to think I was arguing or being an a-hole...or more of an a-hole than usual.

I know AG. I know that prox contributed to the mess from last year, and sure as hell don’t want to see that happen again. I wish you the best again with that rehab. You have endured one hell of a struggle with that and for sure that was an extensive procedure.

[almostgone]

I know AG. I know that prox contributed to the mess from last year, and sure as hell don’t want to see that happen again. I wish you the best again with that rehab. You have endured one hell of a struggle with that and for sure that was an extensive procedure.

Thanks man. The surgery was definitely beyond interesting. I just want my biceps and delt strength back...time will tell. I've tried hollering at them and cussing them.

[Cuz]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...r-key-numbers/

Here, read this Dave its some good information on what the United States government has wasted the past 20 years

[SampsonandDelilah]

Yup, and now these fuckers are driving armored humvees, toting M4’s and NVG’s. It’s a joke

I stay away from politics, but this is a debacle and sleepy Joe and what’s her name are at the helm.

Don’t believe me…then believe a truly great American


https://rumble.com/vlo97f-watch-jock...have-done.html

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Not only is that genocide

Genocide or not... if you told me that we had to destroy Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and China so that the rest of the world can be happy, I'd go along with it.

Nobody wants to buy a retirement home in either of those 7 countries. Nobody wants to go for a 2-week holiday to those countries. (When I say 'nobody', I mean sane people).

On the day I meet my maker and I'm walking up to the pearly gates, and he asks me why I thought I was so important that all those other people should perish, I'd just tell him "You tried to make a spiritual being out of an animal, without any provision for what to do about the certainty of death. It turned into a mess, and you put me right in the middle of it."

Really who gives a flying fuck if those 7 countries disappear in a plume of nuclear mushroom clouds? We'd still have Australia, Canada, the UK, Europe (Italy, Germany). We'd still have all the nice countries.

[almostgone]

Genocide or not... if you told me that we had to destroy Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and China so that the rest of the world can be happy, I'd go along with it.

Nobody wants to buy a retirement home in either of those 7 countries. Nobody wants to go for a 2-week holiday to those countries. (When I say 'nobody', I mean sane people).

On the day I meet my maker and I'm walking up to the pearly gates, and he asks me why I thought I was so important that all those other people should perish, I'd just tell him "You tried to make a spiritual being out of an animal, without any provision for what to do about the certainty of death. It turned into a mess, and you put me right in the middle of it."

Really who gives a flying fuck if those 7 countries disappear in a plume of nuclear mushroom clouds? We'd still have Australia, Canada, the UK, Europe (Italy, Germany). We'd still have all the nice countries.

You, my friend, have major issues. I see your Buddhist beliefs are a false flag.

Edit: Also, your geopolitical knowledge is severely lacking.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

You, my friend, have major issues. I see your Buddhist beliefs are a false flag.

Morals, beliefs and values are cool and all, but sometimes we get placed in an "It's us or them" situation. I realise that some people martyr themselves and stand for something beyond themselves, but if I were a military commander, my desire to be noble wouldn't be strong enough to save the civilians in those 7 countries in the event of an all-out nuclear war. I'd try to live the rest of my life dealing with my conscious for sacrificing millions of civilians, but still, as a military commander, I'll know it was the better choice to wipe out those countries than give them a chance to send A-bombs around the world.

China has a few cool things like Tai Chi, but for the most part it would be nice if China were blotted out. It would give all our morals a good kick as we would have to find an alternative to overseas child labour.

[wango]

Thanks man. The surgery was definitely beyond interesting. I just want my biceps and delt strength back...time will tell. I've tried hollering at them and cussing them.

Interesting technique, lol. Hey thanks for personally keeping politics out of it, appreciate it!

As I mentioned before, we’ve been involved with this country and spending billions since the 80’s. That’s: Carter, Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump & now 7 months in, Biden. 8 presidencies and 8 administrations.

When did Trump designate the withdrawal date of May of 2021, wasn’t that in February of 2020? So those 6,000 Americans (1500 who are possibly still there, although they may not really be there) are blind sided by this now? Sure it ain’t that simple, but seriously, in that article I just cited, parents just brought their children there this Summer to vacation!

Undoubtedly the amount of Afghans that want to get out of dodge are increasing every day. I believe we’ve evacuated 80,000 already. Just how many more tens of thousands of their citizens directly assisted us in the war effort? Are we to air lift out everyone that realizes it’s now Taliban ruled? The Taliban stated its 8/31 or else. Anyone anxious to see what that “else” is, particularly since it’s just not the Taliban that’s involved?

[almostgone]

Interesting technique, lol. Hey thanks for personally keeping politics out of it, appreciate it!

As I mentioned before, we’ve been involved with this country and spending billions since the 80’s. That’s: Carter, Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump & now 7 months in, Biden. 8 presidencies and 8 administrations.

When did Trump designate the withdrawal date of May of 2021, wasn’t that in February of 2020? So those 6,000 Americans (1500 who are possibly still there, although they may not really be there) are blind sided by this now? Sure it ain’t that simple, but seriously, in that article I just cited, parents just brought their children there this Summer to vacation!

Undoubtedly the amount of Afghans that want to get out of dodge are increasing every day. I believe we’ve evacuated 80,000 already. Just how many more tens of thousands of their citizens directly assisted us in the war effort? Are we to air lift out everyone that realizes it’s now Taliban ruled? The Taliban stated its 8/31 or else. Anyone anxious to see what that “else” is, particularly since it’s just not the Taliban that’s involved?

I admit that I agree with you, I wouldn't put my children into that hellhole. However, there are still Americans there that are doing jobs.... military/paramilitary and civilian, although I think the majority of the aid worker count is waaay down there.. I'm not sure of the total count incountry and tend to think we'll never know.

Again... children? No, if I had children, I would in no way, shape, form, or fashion drag them into that. I wouldn't drag my spouse into it.
Myself...yes, married or single. One caveat though, if I were single became involved with an Afghan female, I would want her out of there, pronto.

As you can see, the "agreement" to exit peaceably by 8/31, has been violated. It's way beyond a shit storm. I grieve for the peaceful factions of Afghanistan.

[Chark]

Yup, and now these fuckers are driving armored humvees, toting M4’s and NVG’s. It’s a joke

I stay away from politics, but this is a debacle and sleepy Joe and what’s her name are at the helm.

Don’t believe me…then believe a truly great American


https://rumble.com/vlo97f-watch-jock...have-done.html

I love JW, amazing human