For the Last time Summarized how to Shred fat fastest using supps!?

[kingofmasters]

Aside Diet and Cardio one can also take meds to speed things up a bit!

DNP and Usnic Acid/Sodium Usniate is for the crazy or the desperate so that leaves us with the most effective meds:

T2 (3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine)
T3 (Liothyronine Sodium) ---> cytomel
T4 (Levothyroxine) --> synthroid
Clenbuterol ---> Spiropent
Goold old ECY (Ephedra, Cafeine and Yohimbine).

Well T2 is best since it is muscle sparing, while maintaining the same fatburning effects as its brother T3 (which is quite catabolic)

T4 is about 25% as effective as T3 (T4 is converted in T3 in your body)

Clenbuterol is anti-catabolic and very potent at fatburning.

Ephedra (in the ECY) is very potent at fatburning for people with a high BMI.
and has some anti-catabolic effects.

Now to set things straight (the best knowledge is that that comes from people with experienced).

The T2/T3/T4 and the Clen and ECA should be used two weeks on, two weeks off

1.
How would you personally do that? (or had best results with) (T2/T3/T4 means either T2 or T3 or T4):

Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4 with Clen
Week 3-4 ECY

Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4 with ECY
Week 3-4 Clen

Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4
Week 3-4 Clen with ECY

In theory:

Possibility 1 --> First two weeks optimal fat burning (while Clen reduces the catabolic effects of T3/T4).

Possibility 2 --> The ECY are antagonists for alpha and beta receptors on the fatcells so fatburning is more effecient, while week 3 and 4 the bodytemprature stays elevated and so fatburning stays effecient.

Possibility 3 --> Optimal spreading of fatburning (so week 3 and 4 is as effective at fatburning as first two weeks).

2.
Then which cominations off the thyroid hormones have you tested and how did they work out for you:

T2 and T3 (seems to be most effective stack according to most boards)
T3 and T4 (does this make Fatburning more effecient? well in theory it does but have you noticed a difference?).

3.
Did you take dosages spreadout through the day or all at once?

4.
Did you take Taurine? (or any other form of supplement --> share with us the supps that made your usage of these compounds more pleasent or relieved some off the side-effects)?

Please let replies be plentiful as this thread then will be based on real experiences and will have all information summarized in one topic!!

As for me:

Week 1-2 T3 @ 100 mcg ED
Week 3-4 Clen @ 200 mcg ED
Week 5-6 T3 @ 100 mcg ED
Week 7-8 Clen @ 200 mcg ED
with 5 grams of Taurine ED

I took it all at once and lost 5 kilos of pure fat (11 lbs)!

Thanks in Advance and make this thread as educational as possible!,

Kingofmasters

[Ammar]

Good post bro.

As my personal experience, all I have used is clen/ECA stack. It worked great for me. I lost almost 3% body fat on it. I took the clen for 2 weeks then off for 2 weeks. Slowly ramped up my dosages then back down. On my off weeks I took Xenadrine with ephedra. I loved it, definitely will do it again. Diet is a HUGE key though no matter what you use.

[kingofmasters]

Your totally right bro, diet is key!!

Cuz otherwise you can eat like a pig and not gain any weight perhaps but not loose any also and still will have to deal with cost and inconvenience of taking these drugs!

[SV-1]

Clen does need to be run two weeks on two off, unless you have ketofen.

But not t3.

T3 needs to be slowly tapered down to give your thyroid time to recover.

DNP and Usnic Acid/Sodium Usniate is for the crazy or the desperate so that leaves us with the most effective meds:

This statement is rather insulting to a lot of good bros who are neither desperate nor crazy and know a hell of a lot more then you.

[someday]

also from what i've read clen is not anti-catabolic. For some reason people think it posesses steroid qualities. I've read allot of articles saying this isn't true. Correct me if im wrong.

[kingofmasters]

I mean its for the crazy and desperate if used for simple (!!) cutting cycle...

lets not forget that our Bros here are either hardcore or know exactly what they are doing!!

But I stand by my opinion as to Sodium Usniate; if your planning to use that you're a crazy Motherf*cker (since it very easily can cause permanent liver damage --> we're talking about 2 grams over 10 days time)

DNP is very safe though if you know what you're doing --> still not suitable for simple cutting with an easily attainable goal (try some sports then, lazy bum!)

Usnic Acid is very controversial though.

Second of all I already did a DNP cycle -->
10 days 400 mg with 15 mg Sibutramine
10 days 600 mg with 20 mg Sibutramine
(Made the caps myself)

It was alot less hell than it was all cranked up to be --> I barely even noticed any sides, come to think about it; The sweating left aside, it made me feel very good that cold winter (Nazi's used to use DNP to stay warm during the invasion of Russia).

[kingofmasters]

As to someday

You're definetly wrong --> Like you said people think it has steroid qualities but isn't anabolic nor androgenic but it definetely is quite anti-catabolic!!

That's why in medical literature it is used for the treatment of AIDS, Duchenne etc. (It's used in a cocktail with "El Dopa") while children get the milder brother Salbutamol!

[SV-1]

I agree UA = Death. Though some would disagree.

I also agree DNP if used properly is very safe. I've done a small low dose cycle and plan to do a higher longer cycle soon.

But still think that these would be better guidelines for T3 and Clen.


Clen Handbook.
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=23808

CYCLEONS T3 Guide.
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...read.php?t=766



Or Billys take on T3 which is very close to CYCLEONS.

Originally posted on BB4L by Billy_Bathgate:

You can take T3 all at once. No need to split it up. It has a long half life and will not interfere with blood levels. T3 does not "kick in" rapidly either and will not effect you by a sudden all at once dosing.

You could safely take it for up to 12wks IMO.

For dosing I follow the below outline:

10% upramp
30% max
60% down ramp


Enter your max desired dose and duration.

Ex 100mcg
6wks (42 days)

Day 1 25mcg
Day 2 50mcg
Day 3 75mcg
Day 4 100mcg

Day 5-16 100mcg

Day 17-24 75mcg
Day 25-32 50mcg
Day 33-42 25mcg

[Mallet]

also from what i've read clen is not anti-catabolic. For some reason people think it posesses steroid qualities. I've read allot of articles saying this isn't true. Correct me if im wrong.

Clen is a Steroid!...I think you ment to say it's not considered an anabolic steroid. and is very anti-catabolic IMO.

[Mallet]

KingofMasters...I don't agree with the thyroid schedule...I don't see why anybody would just arbitrarily take thyroid meds without monitoring their Body temp. All else I agree with, all in all a good post to bring these issue to light!

[jbolsrn]

When using the thyroid stimulators, T3,etc, does your thyroid recover? I have heard many varying opinions on this. Will it have a rebound affect and you will end up with a thyroid slower than before?

[Ammar]

From everything I read on this site about T3, your thyroid will recover back to normal but the key is tapering down slowly.

[Mallet]

The Key Is Monitoring Your Resting Body Temp...

[kingofmasters]

Dear mallet,

I haven't concretly given a cycle I just asked you Bros if you cycle two weeks on two weeks off (which has proven to be most effective dosing) using clen, ECA, and T2/T3/T4 how would you combine them in the on and off weeks:

Possility 1:
Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4 with Clen
Week 3-4 ECY

Possibility 2:
Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4 with ECY
Week 3-4 Clen

Possiblity 3:
Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4
Week 3-4 Clen with ECY

Offcourse you can make the cycle as long as you want e.g. for 8 weeks using Possiblity 3 will give you:

Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4
Week 3-4 Clen with ECY
Week 5-6 T2/T3/T4
Week 7-8 Clen with ECY

Just asking what in practice gives best results (in theory all 3 have their pros and cons), I for one used T3 for two weeks with Clen in "the 2 off-weeks"
in an 8 week cycle.

As for Johan, i've never tapered down either but then again, I'm very insensitive to sides (come to think about it, no medicine ever gets the best of me), Maybe it's just what you call the "Lucky few".

P.S. anybody know where the **** "Quote-button" is

[spywizard]

Well........... you know what......... alot of good bro's on this board.. are crazy mother_fuc-kers..............

and to prove it they can do DNP.......hahahahaaaaa

I don't think anyone is taking it too seriously..

And i liked what you posted... copied it all too..


thanks........

I mean its for the crazy and desperate if used for simple (!!) cutting cycle...

lets not forget that our Bros here are either hardcore or know exactly what they are doing!!

But I stand by my opinion as to Sodium Usniate; if your planning to use that you're a crazy Motherf*cker (since it very easily can cause permanent liver damage --> we're talking about 2 grams over 10 days time)

DNP is very safe though if you know what you're doing --> still not suitable for simple cutting with an easily attainable goal (try some sports then, lazy bum!)

Usnic Acid is very controversial though.

Second of all I already did a DNP cycle -->
10 days 400 mg with 15 mg Sibutramine
10 days 600 mg with 20 mg Sibutramine
(Made the caps myself)

It was alot less hell than it was all cranked up to be --> I barely even noticed any sides, come to think about it; The sweating left aside, it made me feel very good that cold winter (Nazi's used to use DNP to stay warm during the invasion of Russia).

[bigjay727]

hey hows it going guys... I am really wanting to lose weight....i am ready to tackle this diet and gym duties....I was telling a friend recently and he mentioned to me, why dont I try clenbuterol....well... I was wondering if you think I should. I am 26, 6'4'', and Im 335 pounds. I wanna get down to 250. Do you think it will help me? for those who have used it... how much weight did u drop? and any other info you give me would be great.

Jay.

[Mallet]

Dear mallet,

I haven't concretly given a cycle I just asked you Bros if you cycle two weeks on two weeks off (which has proven to be most effective dosing) using clen, ECA, and T2/T3/T4 how would you combine them in the on and off weeks:

Possility 1:
Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4 with Clen
Week 3-4 ECY

Possibility 2:
Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4 with ECY
Week 3-4 Clen

Possiblity 3:
Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4
Week 3-4 Clen with ECY

Offcourse you can make the cycle as long as you want e.g. for 8 weeks using Possiblity 3 will give you:

Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4
Week 3-4 Clen with ECY
Week 5-6 T2/T3/T4
Week 7-8 Clen with ECY

Just asking what in practice gives best results (in theory all 3 have their pros and cons), I for one used T3 for two weeks with Clen in "the 2 off-weeks"
in an 8 week cycle.

As for Johan, i've never tapered down either but then again, I'm very insensitive to sides (come to think about it, no medicine ever gets the best of me), Maybe it's just what you call the "Lucky few".

P.S. anybody know where the **** "Quote-button" is

I agree with possibility #1...but taking clen on the opposing weeks of t3 is not a good idea, because clen is somewhat of an antagonist to your thyroid, therefore your hindering the recovery period of your thyroid. Clen and t3 together...beautiful!!!...but never do clen when your trying to recoupe your thyroid function.
Monitoring your Resting temp tells you exactly how your thyroid is responding to the supplementing of T3, or T4. It will also tell you if your thyroid is rebounding or shuting down your rt3 ( reverse t3) which happens more often and alot sooner with t3 rather than t4. I'm taking Ketotifen with my clen so I don't need to cycle it on and off, I just run it straight through providing my temp is not changing whithin .5 deg.

[Mallet]

OH...if you want to quote...just hit the reply button in the box of the person you wish to quote instead of the main one located directly beneath the last post.

[kingofmasters]

hey hows it going guys... I am really wanting to lose weight....i am ready to tackle this diet and gym duties....I was telling a friend recently and he mentioned to me, why dont I try clenbuterol....well... I was wondering if you think I should. I am 26, 6'4'', and Im 335 pounds. I wanna get down to 250. Do you think it will help me? for those who have used it... how much weight did u drop? and any other info you give me would be great.

Jay.

Dear Bigjay As I understand it your 1,90 m and you weigh 150 kg, no offence bro but that's way too much!! --> Consult a physician, they surely will help you!

Please let me know your Fat percentage if you aren't able to process that, tell me your waist in cm and I'll will calculate it for you!

Fisrt of all with this much overweight, Diet can't be taken straight for you will have a terrible rebound effect! (You probably know this form dieting in the past)

What I recommend is a diet in stages!!

Stage 1: Approx. 1 Month

Go to a Fitnesscentre and ask for the possibilities and Subscribe....
(At least 5 times a week do cardio for one hour straight on one device --> people often switch devices after 10-15 minutes when their bodyis in optimal lipolysis-state, The best thing is to watch tv while cardio so cardio doesn't become a bore and you stay motivated for you will have to do this for the rest of your life to maintain a healthy weight --> Sorry for bursting your bubble but this is true.)

Go to a Nutricianist and ask him were your foodpattern goes wrong

(A very common mistake in eating habits is people who don't drink water often and therefor resort to Softdrinks and Juices and therefore are more hungry and usually bottleneck their bodies fatburning abilities by drinking too little water, not to mention your body who gets used to insulinspikes through continous usage of Coke for example, also don't kid your self with Sugarfree and Fatfree they usually have a catch!! especially the latter which usually has a lot of calories from carbohydrates to keep taste good, only good exception is Diet Coke which doesn't have a catch as long as you don't drink regular coke if no Diet is available, because you're mentally addicted to the stuff).

Use Sibutramine 15 mg for at least 3 months to maintain Diet (it's a good appetite suppresant)

And take Xenical 120 mg for at least a month (it has some unpleasantries but it makes you not have to give up all the foods that you love, so keeping diet is easier).

Also if you feel like sinning and take snacks enjoy it! But don't make it a habit and enjoy eating fruits and vegetables which not only are very healthy but also very tasty (even if you don;t like them if prepared well).

Stage 2 (ECA) Approx. 1 month:

After losing the first 10 pounds you will be most motivated (but don't forget these are the easiest weight to lose) use a good stacker (ECA-stack) preferbaly with ephedra instead of synefrine to lose some more weight and to keep your energy up!
Do this for about a month!

Stage 3 approx. 2 months:

You're know ready for some more serious drugs --> Clenbuterol

Cycle this for about 2 months, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off with ECA in the off weeks (I'm currently making my own custom ECA if I have some left I will sell them to you at cost price but I don't think so seeing ephedra will banned in a month!)

Stage 4 approx 3 months:

Now do a cytomel cycle (T3) For 12 weeks like this:

Week 1-2 T2/T3/T4 with Clen
Week 3-4 ECY
Week 5-6 T2/T3/T4 with Clen
Week 7-8 ECY
Week 9-10 T2/T3/T4 with Clen
Week 11-12 ECY

Remember Bros Cytomel is known to spare muscle and burn about 95% fat and less than 5% muscle in people over 25% bodyfat....

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Stage 5))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Now if you are still in the dangerzone healthwise you can try DNP (BUT RESEARCH IT WELL!!, It could kill you!!) under no circumstance!! use Sodium Usniate

Stage 6:

REMEMBER IF YOU HELD DIET AND CARDIO WITH DISCLIPINE after a year should be able to lose 60-100 lbs of fat

If you are now in the 20-30% bodyfat region or less!!

Use some cutting steroids:

Not only will you train your body, muscles burn fat so the more you have the faster your metabolism is kept (in subjects with less then normal metabolism speed --> obese!! this is extra visible), furthermore the more muscles you have and the better you look the better your mental state cause you will feel fitter and never want to be a tub of lard again....

REMEMBER THIS ONE THING BRO:

Normally I wouldn't recommend so much meds but you clearly are in a dangerzone healthwise!! if your only 26 (in the prime of your life)

1)
Diet and Cardio are the essential, the rest are optional and only work if cardio and diet are maintained (or else like for instance steroids they could work well in your disadvantage)

2)
Remember Bro, don't be foolish and go to stage 5 or 6 from the start --> It will only make for disappointments, remember I'm here to help in if there was a faster solution I would most defenitely will give you that solution....

You have to let your body adjust to the new you...

Remember this cycle I planned for you is for at least a year, so disclipine is required (your loved ones should support you) and If you reach your goals which I surely hope you do, don't stop there ---> Remember the diet is temporary you can make it less strict after a year or two but the Cardio is forever!! (Sign up for a sport you enjoy if you Like)....

REMEMBER This too:

I'm not bull****ting you by saying you SHOULDN'T use dietmeds and that everything is going to be good with some excercise and proper diet, cause I gave you a ****load of meds you should take --> but over a proper amount of time and only used wisely in conjunction with diet and excercise...

Remember this meds are help-goods they aren't wonderdrugs!! or else the whole Western world would be thin and lean.....

The meds will speed things up and keep you motivated for the real Dread: The diet (which nobody likes) and the Cardio (which you will get fond of if you keep at it) since you will see results faster....

Good luck Bro and Stay wise

From a Future Docter and someone who lost a hell of a lot weight

Kingofmasters

[kingofmasters]

What do the other Bros have to say!

[Football_Bill]

hey hows it going guys... I am really wanting to lose weight....i am ready to tackle this diet and gym duties....I was telling a friend recently and he mentioned to me, why dont I try clenbuterol....well... I was wondering if you think I should. I am 26, 6'4'', and Im 335 pounds. I wanna get down to 250. Do you think it will help me? for those who have used it... how much weight did u drop? and any other info you give me would be great.

Jay.

As a once 6'3" 330 lbs person, I would recommend Clen for you. I didn't use just clen, but within about 4 monthes I lost down to 270. Did two cycles of Animal Cuts/Pak/Stack, with a 2 month cycle of clen in between, meaning 2 weeks on/2 off twice. As for clen being a steroid, it does seem to increase strength a bit, but has more of a skin tightening, muscle pump quality, muck like NO2 claims to have.

[kingofmasters]

Anyone any T2 experience~?

[Blown_SC]

As a once 6'3" 330 lbs person, I would recommend Clen for you. I didn't use just clen, but within about 4 monthes I lost down to 270. Did two cycles of Animal Cuts/Pak/Stack, with a 2 month cycle of clen in between, meaning 2 weeks on/2 off twice. As for clen being a steroid, it does seem to increase strength a bit, but has more of a skin tightening, muscle pump quality, muck like NO2 claims to have.

Hey bro, good post. That's the motivation this man needs. Good luck BigJay!

[GENETICFREAK]

ok johan...i have a question why does everyone say not to go over 125mcg? my gf wants to do both clen and t3....with all the fn advice on here you get lost in the maze.
What about taper....ive read both ways....taper needed and not needed. My education is sports med so from a physiological stand point taper does seem to be a waste....the only way your thyroid will respond at all is once there is a loss. Same with aas. So since you have done this....would it be safe to say my gf should do 125mcg a day for 6 weeks since thats she weighs? Would she start with 125mcg from day one? Along with the clen as well. Now if she drops weight do you drop down as well....any help would be great

[p0d0078]

since we are talking about losing weight. What about Helious? I personally like losing weight in certain parts of my body like the abdomen; were i have probably have all the fat, and helios helps witht that although it is very expensive.

[ddoublevision]

dnp is crazy, there is really no way of getting around that

I've take 800 mg day for 2 weeks so I know

I'm done with that shTT

I now have bad vision!

[niXon)(]

I'm taking t-3 in a wk along with a little clen, wanting to get he tappering par of t-3 leared upmyslef, if there is anything to clear up.

^^^

[GENETICFREAK]

can anybody answer my question please?

[wilthepill123]

ok johan...i have a question why does everyone say not to go over 125mcg? my gf wants to do both clen and t3....with all the fn advice on here you get lost in the maze.
What about taper....ive read both ways....taper needed and not needed. My education is sports med so from a physiological stand point taper does seem to be a waste....the only way your thyroid will respond at all is once there is a loss. Same with aas. So since you have done this....would it be safe to say my gf should do 125mcg a day for 6 weeks since thats she weighs? Would she start with 125mcg from day one? Along with the clen as well. Now if she drops weight do you drop down as well....any help would be great

Theoretically she can start at 125 mcg a day, and as her weight drops she should drop her dosage as well. I like to ramping to really get a feel for what dosage i want to be at, and she may want to do that as well. Especially if shes using it in conjunction with clen. Some people just cant deal with the sides, and she'll probably feel em strong at that dosage. IMO tapering/ramping works great as a gauge for what one can take when using a supplement such as clen or T3

[GENETICFREAK]

thanks bro

[GENETICFREAK]

ok so if you monitor your temp what exactly are you suppose to look for....also if this is ran for 6 weeks....are the perectages the same with the clen...you mention ketifen?
thanks