Greater Israel: A Dream Closer to Fulfillment

[MilitiaGuy]

Ariel Sharon was the act that triggered the second Intifada.
On 28 September 2000, the then opposition leader, heavily guarded by Israeli soldiers and policemen, walked in to al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem.
It was a move certain to provoke an angry reaction from the Muslim population, who hold the mosque to be the third holiest site in Islam.
Fighting broke out between the Palestinians defending al-Aqsa and security forces guarding Sharon. Seven Palestinians were killed in the fighting and thus the second Intifada - Intifadat al-Aqsa - was started.
The Intifada was and still is - an expression of a deep disappointment and frustration over the ongoing disrespect and denial of basic rights for Palestinians caused by the occupation - including the right to free access to Jerusalem, security and development, and the refugees' right to return.

[Rak_Ani]

Ariel Sharon was the act that triggered the second Intifada.
On 28 September 2000, the then opposition leader, heavily guarded by Israeli soldiers and policemen, walked in to al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem.
It was a move certain to provoke an angry reaction from the Muslim population, who hold the mosque to be the third holiest site in Islam.
Fighting broke out between the Palestinians defending al-Aqsa and security forces guarding Sharon. Seven Palestinians were killed in the fighting and thus the second Intifada - Intifadat al-Aqsa - was started.
The Intifada was and still is - an expression of a deep disappointment and frustration over the ongoing disrespect and denial of basic rights for Palestinians caused by the occupation - including the right to free access to Jerusalem, security and development, and the refugees' right to return.

Yep. You will always find a reason to kill. Those you never lack. If it's not
Ariel Sharon, then it's the shooting of a terrorist, and if it's not that then it's the security fense, and if not that then it's the date some arab (practically any Arab) died years ago, and if not that then there surely is some rock somewhere you will claim belongs to you and was taken by "the Zionists" and that of course is a reason for you to kill. You live for hatred, for death, and for war. If Israel didn't exist I'm pretty sure you'll find a reason good enough for you to start hating anyone else, even Switzerland.
Golda Meir was right when she said that peace will only come when you start loving your children more than you hate Israel.

You say: "It was a move certain to provoke an angry reaction from the Muslim population, who hold the mosque to be the third holiest site in Islam." Now for one minute pretend to be a man and prove it. Give me the exact place in the Koran where it says anything about the Temple Mount, or anywhere else in Jerusalem. Jerusalem as a city or any part of it isn't mentioned in the Koran, not even once and therefore that makes this statement just another one of your lies.

You say: "Fighting broke out between the Palestinians defending al-Aqsa and security forces guarding Sharon. Seven Palestinians were killed in the fighting and thus the second Intifada - Intifadat al-Aqsa - was started."
Defending it from what? From Sharon? Well, I know the guy is fat, but not enough to cause the Temple Mount any damage, and if he did, he'd have the religious Jewish Israelis to answer to because this is an important and holly place for Judaism.

You say: "The Intifada was and still is - an expression of a deep disappointment and frustration over the ongoing disrespect and denial of basic rights for Palestinians caused by the occupation - including the right to free access to Jerusalem, security and development, and the refugees' right to return".
The Palestinians could have had all of the above (except for "right of return) if they would have chosen to sit and talk with Ehud Barak instead of turn the guns given to them by Israel, against Israel. They chose war and therefore will have to deal with the concequences of their actions.
The "right" of return is BS. Show me one example of a precedence (sp) and I'll listen to your arguement about it. Untill then sit down and shut up. Your people started a war, they lost, they ran away, and that's their problem. All the Jewish refugees that fled to Israel from Arabic countries have been taken in by Israel, given citizenship and are now living a normal life. Your country, on the other hand, has been keeping Palestinian refugees in camps for over 50 years.
Do you see the difference between us? Do you understand what it means to decide that giving a good life for your children is more important than seeking to satisfy your hatred?
You enjoy playing the victim and that will not stop as long as you don't change your state of mind. If you got a Palestine, you will always find something else you want. It's the way you are. You will also most likely ignore my post, or chose to reply to it with lies while avoiding my questions, but that too is just the way you are.

Well, at least you have the fat Jew you so much love to hate who you can blame for this madness.

[physio_sport]

You say: "It was a move certain to provoke an angry reaction from the Muslim population, who hold the mosque to be the third holiest site in Islam." Now for one minute pretend to be a man and prove it. Give me the exact place in the Koran where it says anything about the Temple Mount, or anywhere else in Jerusalem. Jerusalem as a city or any part of it isn't mentioned in the Koran, not even once and therefore that makes this statement just another one of your lies.

youre statement about israel or the not being metioned in the quran is wrong, i would think this is becuase of your lack of knowlage in islamic and quranic teachings.

israel, al-aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock Mosque are mentioned in the quran

for example Qur’an, in Surah 17, verse 1:

"{Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go in a night from the Sacred Mosque to the Remote Mosque [al-Aqsa mosque] of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing.}"

there are many quotes about israel in the quran. you seem to also forget that the muslims also belive in jesus and that jesus is going to return to save mankind by teaching them about god.
if you read the quran you'll notice that the jesus is mentioned more times in the quran then the prophet mohammed. and as you know you can't talk about jesus without talking about isreal and jerusalum.

back in the prophet mohammeds days people including the prophet mohammed used to pray facing the Jerusalem/al-Aqsa Mosque. since the building of the mekka people now have changed the direction in which they pray towards the mekka.

also the muslims belive that mohammed travelled to jerusalum and thats where god brought him upto heaven this event was known as the "night journey"

“Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque (Al-Masjid al-Haram) to the farthest Mosque (Al-Masjid al-Aqsa), whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).” (al-Isra’: 1)

also some different sects of islam belive in things called the hadeets/sunnahs which are meant to be saying or speaches said by mohammed in one of these saying he said

“A prayer in the Sacred Mosque [in Makkah] is worth 100,000 prayers, a prayer in my mosque [in Madinah] is worth 1,000, and a prayer in Jerusalem [al-Aqsa Mosque] is worth 500 prayers more than in any other mosque.”

im sorry that i couldn't list anymore quotes because

1. i don't have the time to type it up.
2. there are so many that if i do i'll basically end up writing out pages and pages and pages of quotes becuase there mentioned so many times in the quran,hedeeths/sunnahs(for those muslims who belive them)
3. ive basically proved you wrong so i don't see the point of writing any more quotes. if you want to learn more, go get a quaran and do your own reading.

[MilitiaGuy]

youre statement about israel or the not being metioned in the quran is wrong, i would think this is becuase of your lack of knowlage in islamic and quranic teachings.

israel, al-aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock Mosque are mentioned in the quran

for example Qur’an, in Surah 17, verse 1:

"{Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go in a night from the Sacred Mosque to the Remote Mosque [al-Aqsa mosque] of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing.}"

there are many quotes about israel in the quran. you seem to also forget that the muslims also belive in jesus and that jesus is going to return to save mankind by teaching them about god.
if you read the quran you'll notice that the jesus is mentioned more times in the quran then the prophet mohammed. and as you know you can't talk about jesus without talking about isreal and jerusalum.

back in the prophet mohammeds days people including the prophet mohammed used to pray facing the Jerusalem/al-Aqsa Mosque. since the building of the mekka people now have changed the direction in which they pray towards the mekka.

also the muslims belive that mohammed travelled to jerusalum and thats where god brought him upto heaven this event was known as the "night journey"

“Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque (Al-Masjid al-Haram) to the farthest Mosque (Al-Masjid al-Aqsa), whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).” (al-Isra’: 1)

also some different sects of islam belive in things called the hadeets/sunnahs which are meant to be saying or speaches said by mohammed in one of these saying he said

“A prayer in the Sacred Mosque [in Makkah] is worth 100,000 prayers, a prayer in my mosque [in Madinah] is worth 1,000, and a prayer in Jerusalem [al-Aqsa Mosque] is worth 500 prayers more than in any other mosque.”

im sorry that i couldn't list anymore quotes because

1. i don't have the time to type it up.
2. there are so many that if i do i'll basically end up writing out pages and pages and pages of quotes becuase there mentioned so many times in the quran,hedeeths/sunnahs(for those muslims who belive them)
3. ive basically proved you wrong so i don't see the point of writing any more quotes. if you want to learn more, go get a quaran and do your own reading.

salam alaykom
nice quote brother ,but dont bother trying to convince a zionist he will always try to proove ur wrong.

[BOUNCER]

salam alaykom
nice quote brother ,but dont bother trying to convince a zionist he will always try to proove ur wrong.

You spelt 'Prove' wrong.

[Rak_Ani]

salam alaykom
nice quote brother ,but dont bother trying to convince a zionist he will always try to proove ur wrong.

If I'm the Zionist you were refering to, then you might want to keep in mind I'm a very proud "she". Although I have said this in my posts, you wouldn't know that as you obviously don't bother reading through anything that is different than your views.

[BOUNCER]

salam alaykom
nice quote brother ,but dont bother trying to convince a zionist he will always try to proove ur wrong.

You spelt 'Prove' and 'Your' wrong.

[physio_sport]

salam alaykom
nice quote brother ,but dont bother trying to convince a zionist he will always try to proove ur wrong.

salam alaykom
you're probably wright, it's like im talking to myself sometimes.
i've posted the quotes and information yet people still won't belive it's there.

[OGPackin]

salam alaykom
you're probably wright, it's like im talking to myself sometimes.
i've posted the quotes and information yet people still won't belive it's there.

The same can be said about u and M'guy, and a few others that have posted. I think if u take the time to READ EVERYTHING, digest it and not be so clouded by what u perseve the truth to be i think ur eyes can be opened and both Palestinians and Israelis can live together in peace.

Also, Palestinians and other extreme muslum groups are brought up to hate Israel and Jewish people in general. Israelis and Jewish people are NOT brought up to hate Palestinians. IMHO thats the root of the problem and the differene between peace and violence.

OG

[rambo]

Also, Palestinians and other extreme muslum groups are brought up to hate Israel and Jewish people in general. Israelis and Jewish people are NOT brought up to hate Palestinians. IMHO thats the root of the problem and the differene between peace and violence.

In other words blame it on the Palestinians, and we can all be happy.

The root of this problem is that BOTH parties are brought up to hate, first and foremost. That's the problem with this dynamic, is that it is ridiculosuly simple, yet remains so complex. Everything is a reaction to another reaction that was a reaction to something else. Tracing each action is relatively pointless at this point.

Rak Ani, no one is going to debate who is a "good" religious person. I know my Bible better than most "devout" Christians, same with my Koran, yet I'm not religious. I can say the same for countless other people, it is not simply a matter of one religion having more educated people.

Everyone seems to be generalizing here, in that pointing fingers from one side or the other is very easy.

[Rak_Ani]

youre statement about israel or the not being metioned in the quran is wrong, i would think this is becuase of your lack of knowlage in islamic and quranic teachings.

israel, al-aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock Mosque are mentioned in the quran

for example Qur’an, in Surah 17, verse 1:

"{Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go in a night from the Sacred Mosque to the Remote Mosque [al-Aqsa mosque] of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing.}"

there are many quotes about israel in the quran. you seem to also forget that the muslims also belive in jesus and that jesus is going to return to save mankind by teaching them about god.
if you read the quran you'll notice that the jesus is mentioned more times in the quran then the prophet mohammed. and as you know you can't talk about jesus without talking about isreal and jerusalum.

back in the prophet mohammeds days people including the prophet mohammed used to pray facing the Jerusalem/al-Aqsa Mosque. since the building of the mekka people now have changed the direction in which they pray towards the mekka.

also the muslims belive that mohammed travelled to jerusalum and thats where god brought him upto heaven this event was known as the "night journey"

“Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque (Al-Masjid al-Haram) to the farthest Mosque (Al-Masjid al-Aqsa), whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).” (al-Isra’: 1)

also some different sects of islam belive in things called the hadeets/sunnahs which are meant to be saying or speaches said by mohammed in one of these saying he said

“A prayer in the Sacred Mosque [in Makkah] is worth 100,000 prayers, a prayer in my mosque [in Madinah] is worth 1,000, and a prayer in Jerusalem [al-Aqsa Mosque] is worth 500 prayers more than in any other mosque.”

im sorry that i couldn't list anymore quotes because

1. i don't have the time to type it up.
2. there are so many that if i do i'll basically end up writing out pages and pages and pages of quotes becuase there mentioned so many times in the quran,hedeeths/sunnahs(for those muslims who belive them)
3. ive basically proved you wrong so i don't see the point of writing any more quotes. if you want to learn more, go get a quaran and do your own reading.

The quote you brought doesn't mention neither Israel, Jerusalem (El Kudz) or the Temple Mount (El Aktza). The brakets were added by you and are your interpretation. Trust me on this. I have Muslim friends (good friends in fact) that I have verified this with in the past. Neither of the above is mentioned in the Koran. In the Bible, on the other hand, Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times, plus, there is a sura in the Koran that speaks about leading the Jewish people to the land "alla" promissed them. I don't know the exact sura but I will ask one of my Muslim friends at work tomorrow.

Does the Koran also speak about what Jesus preached for, or is he used there only as another excuse for a war? If the Muslims believe the things Jesus preached for, then why have they zero tollerance for anything different than their strict ways? Why did they paint the roof of Joseph's tomb green, and why do they systematically damage holly Jewish and Christian places?

Did you know that before the eastern part of Jerusalem was freed by the IDF not one Arabic leader has bothered visiting it? (I'm talking about the time it was under Jordanian rule). If it's so holly, why didn't they come then?

You have proven nothing. Give me exact quotes with the words El Akza or El Kudz. Until then, words like "many quotes" and "many times" don't prove anything.

[rambo]

The quote you brought doesn't mention neither Israel, Jerusalem (El Kudz) or the Temple Mount (El Aktza). The brakets were added by you and are your interpretation. Trust me on this. I have Muslim friends (good friends in fact) that I have verified this with in the past. Neither of the above is mentioned in the Koran. In the Bible, on the other hand, Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times, plus, there is a sura in the Koran that speaks about leading the Jewish people to the land "alla" promissed them. I don't know the exact sura but I will ask one of my Muslim friends at work tomorrow.

Does the Koran also speak about what Jesus preached for, or is he used there only as another excuse for a war? If the Muslims believe the things Jesus preached for, then why have they zero tollerance for anything different than their strict ways? Why did they paint the roof of Joseph's tomb green, and why do they systematically damage holly Jewish and Christian places?

Did you know that before the eastern part of Jerusalem was freed by the IDF not one Arabic leader has bothered visiting it? (I'm talking about the time it was under Jordanian rule). If it's so holly, why didn't they come then?

You have proven nothing. Give me exact quotes with the words El Akza or El Kudz. Until then, words like "many quotes" and "many times" don't prove anything.

The Koran consistently references the "Children of Israel". Any theologian can tell you the number of times that Israel or its descendants are referenced is very high. The only mosque that fits that "remote" description is that of which physio sport speaks.

Jesus is upheld in the Koran as a prophet who is of the highest caliber. His teachings ARE seen in it. The difference between islam and christianity is that the muslims never had a publicist (Paul), nor an agency (the church), to change the literal meaning of passages to adapt to a modern world. Christianity and Islam have the same philosophies on many things, but Christianity has adapted, and Islam has not. Anyone remember, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?" That's in the bible. Do you know Christians who oppose the death penalty? Yes. Christianity did a MUCH better job of "evolving" than islam. That's why many consider Islamic tradition to be barbaric or antiquated, because it never bended to the passing of time.

[physio_sport]

The quote you brought doesn't mention neither Israel, Jerusalem (El Kudz) or the Temple Mount (El Aktza). The brakets were added by you and are your interpretation. Trust me on this. I have Muslim friends (good friends in fact) that I have verified this with in the past. Neither of the above is mentioned in the Koran. In the Bible, on the other hand, Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times, plus, there is a sura in the Koran that speaks about leading the Jewish people to the land "alla" promissed them. I don't know the exact sura but I will ask one of my Muslim friends at work tomorrow.

Does the Koran also speak about what Jesus preached for, or is he used there only as another excuse for a war? If the Muslims believe the things Jesus preached for, then why have they zero tollerance for anything different than their strict ways? Why did they paint the roof of Joseph's tomb green, and why do they systematically damage holly Jewish and Christian places?

Did you know that before the eastern part of Jerusalem was freed by the IDF not one Arabic leader has bothered visiting it? (I'm talking about the time it was under Jordanian rule). If it's so holly, why didn't they come then?

You have proven nothing. Give me exact quotes with the words El Akza or El Kudz. Until then, words like "many quotes" and "many times" don't prove anything.

well actually like rambo said the only mosque that fitts into "remote" is the al-aqsa mosque. and also because mohammed himself traveled there its the only one.

and rak_ani you might have "muslim" firends but are they real muslims or the holiday muslims who only act like muslims but do not follow in islam itself.
a real muslims prays daily, reads the quran and belives in all the prohets including moses,jesus and mohammed.
just becuase your firends are "muslims" doesn't mean they know anything about islam.
they could be those people who just tell other people they are muslims but do not follow the teachings or they probably haven't even studied the quran.

[Rak_Ani]

well actually like rambo said the only mosque that fitts into "remote" is the al-aqsa mosque. and also because mohammed himself traveled there its the only one.

and rak_ani you might have "muslim" firends but are they real muslims or the holiday muslims who only act like muslims but do not follow in islam itself.
a real muslims prays daily, reads the quran and belives in all the prohets including moses,jesus and mohammed.
just becuase your firends are "muslims" doesn't mean they know anything about islam.
they could be those people who just tell other people they are muslims but do not follow the teachings or they probably haven't even studied the quran.

The al aqsa mosue might fit into that description, but that's still an interpretation as it's not specifically said. You don't see Jerusalem being hinted in the Bible. It's specifically called "Jerusalem". Show me where that is found in the Koran.

You said: "and rak_ani you might have "muslim" firends but are they real muslims or the holiday muslims who only act like muslims but do not follow in islam itself.
a real muslims prays daily, reads the quran and belives in all the prohets including moses,jesus and mohammed.
just becuase your firends are "muslims" doesn't mean they know anything about islam.
they could be those people who just tell other people they are muslims but do not follow the teachings or they probably haven't even studied the quran."

Now I want to know something. Who placed you to be the judge of who a "real" muslim is or isn't? And what makes u think someone has to be Muslim in order to know Islam or the Koran? I can point out to you plenty of Jews who speak Arabic and know the Koran better than many other Muslims who can't even read.

[MilitiaGuy]

salam alaykom
IMO the israeli-muslim confilct will end only with the apearence of imam mahdi and for those who dosent know whos imam mahdi:

The term "MAHDI" is a title meaning "The Guided one". Mahdi is a normal man who is going to follow the true Islam. His name will be Muhammad and his father name will be 'Abdullah. He is a descendant from Ali and Fatima (daughter of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) so he will be descendant from al-Hasan or al-Husain. Mahdi will be very just and his capital will be Damascus. Allah told us that Jews will master the world two times (we live now 2004 during the first one) and Mahdi will appear between those two periods and will rule through the last one. Mahdi is NOT a prophet but he is the final Rightly Guided Khalifa. Mahdi will lead Muslims to a great victory against the Christian Romans (i.e. All the white Europeans including the Americans). This great war is called al-Malhamah al-Kubrah or Armageddon. It will end up with a great victory to Muslims against Romans after six years. Muslims will take over their capital Rome (this can be any city). In the seventh year, the Anticrist will apear and a greater war will start between Jews and Muslims for 40 days (longer that usual days) and will end when Jesus (pbuh) will come and Muslims will kill all Jews. All people will convert into Islam. Peace will pervade the whole world

BUT As Muslims, we should remember that the prophecy about Mahdi is one that will come to pass. This prophecy, however, does not absolve the Muslim Ummah from its duty to strive in the cause of Allah, oppose injustice, and seek peace and betterment of human condition. Centuries have passes from the time of the holy Prophet and there is a good possibility that many more will expire before the advent of the Mahdi. Muslims who are negligent in their duty hoping for a savior are committing a grave mistake and are not following the divine decrees ordained in Quran or taught by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).