Greater Israel: A Dream Closer to Fulfillment

[Rak_Ani]

well actually like rambo said the only mosque that fitts into "remote" is the al-aqsa mosque. and also because mohammed himself traveled there its the only one.

and rak_ani you might have "muslim" firends but are they real muslims or the holiday muslims who only act like muslims but do not follow in islam itself.
a real muslims prays daily, reads the quran and belives in all the prohets including moses,jesus and mohammed.
just becuase your firends are "muslims" doesn't mean they know anything about islam.
they could be those people who just tell other people they are muslims but do not follow the teachings or they probably haven't even studied the quran.

The al aqsa mosue might fit into that description, but that's still an interpretation as it's not specifically said. You don't see Jerusalem being hinted in the Bible. It's specifically called "Jerusalem". Show me where that is found in the Koran.

You said: "and rak_ani you might have "muslim" firends but are they real muslims or the holiday muslims who only act like muslims but do not follow in islam itself.
a real muslims prays daily, reads the quran and belives in all the prohets including moses,jesus and mohammed.
just becuase your firends are "muslims" doesn't mean they know anything about islam.
they could be those people who just tell other people they are muslims but do not follow the teachings or they probably haven't even studied the quran."

Now I want to know something. Who placed you to be the judge of who a "real" muslim is or isn't? And what makes u think someone has to be Muslim in order to know Islam or the Koran? I can point out to you plenty of Jews who speak Arabic and know the Koran better than many other Muslims who can't even read.

[MilitiaGuy]

salam alaykom
IMO the israeli-muslim confilct will end only with the apearence of imam mahdi and for those who dosent know whos imam mahdi:

The term "MAHDI" is a title meaning "The Guided one". Mahdi is a normal man who is going to follow the true Islam. His name will be Muhammad and his father name will be 'Abdullah. He is a descendant from Ali and Fatima (daughter of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) so he will be descendant from al-Hasan or al-Husain. Mahdi will be very just and his capital will be Damascus. Allah told us that Jews will master the world two times (we live now 2004 during the first one) and Mahdi will appear between those two periods and will rule through the last one. Mahdi is NOT a prophet but he is the final Rightly Guided Khalifa. Mahdi will lead Muslims to a great victory against the Christian Romans (i.e. All the white Europeans including the Americans). This great war is called al-Malhamah al-Kubrah or Armageddon. It will end up with a great victory to Muslims against Romans after six years. Muslims will take over their capital Rome (this can be any city). In the seventh year, the Anticrist will apear and a greater war will start between Jews and Muslims for 40 days (longer that usual days) and will end when Jesus (pbuh) will come and Muslims will kill all Jews. All people will convert into Islam. Peace will pervade the whole world

BUT As Muslims, we should remember that the prophecy about Mahdi is one that will come to pass. This prophecy, however, does not absolve the Muslim Ummah from its duty to strive in the cause of Allah, oppose injustice, and seek peace and betterment of human condition. Centuries have passes from the time of the holy Prophet and there is a good possibility that many more will expire before the advent of the Mahdi. Muslims who are negligent in their duty hoping for a savior are committing a grave mistake and are not following the divine decrees ordained in Quran or taught by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

[MilitiaGuy]

i insist u see this site
http://islamicweb.com/history/ww3.htm

[OGPackin]

salam alaykom
you're probably wright, it's like im talking to myself sometimes.
i've posted the quotes and information yet people still won't belive it's there.

The same can be said about u and M'guy, and a few others that have posted. I think if u take the time to READ EVERYTHING, digest it and not be so clouded by what u perseve the truth to be i think ur eyes can be opened and both Palestinians and Israelis can live together in peace.

Also, Palestinians and other extreme muslum groups are brought up to hate Israel and Jewish people in general. Israelis and Jewish people are NOT brought up to hate Palestinians. IMHO thats the root of the problem and the differene between peace and violence.

OG

[Rak_Ani]

salam alaykom
IMO the israeli-muslim confilct will end only with the apearence of imam mahdi and for those who dosent know whos imam mahdi:

The term "MAHDI" is a title meaning "The Guided one". Mahdi is a normal man who is going to follow the true Islam. His name will be Muhammad and his father name will be 'Abdullah. He is a descendant from Ali and Fatima (daughter of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) so he will be descendant from al-Hasan or al-Husain. Mahdi will be very just and his capital will be Damascus. Allah told us that Jews will master the world two times (we live now 2004 during the first one) and Mahdi will appear between those two periods and will rule through the last one. Mahdi is NOT a prophet but he is the final Rightly Guided Khalifa. Mahdi will lead Muslims to a great victory against the Christian Romans (i.e. All the white Europeans including the Americans). This great war is called al-Malhamah al-Kubrah or Armageddon. It will end up with a great victory to Muslims against Romans after six years. Muslims will take over their capital Rome (this can be any city). In the seventh year, the Anticrist will apear and a greater war will start between Jews and Muslims for 40 days (longer that usual days) and will end when Jesus (pbuh) will come and Muslims will kill all Jews. All people will convert into Islam. Peace will pervade the whole world

BUT As Muslims, we should remember that the prophecy about Mahdi is one that will come to pass. This prophecy, however, does not absolve the Muslim Ummah from its duty to strive in the cause of Allah, oppose injustice, and seek peace and betterment of human condition. Centuries have passes from the time of the holy Prophet and there is a good possibility that many more will expire before the advent of the Mahdi. Muslims who are negligent in their duty hoping for a savior are committing a grave mistake and are not following the divine decrees ordained in Quran or taught by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

They tell you all of this in terrorist school? And you believe it?

[MilitiaGuy]

They tell you all of this in terrorist school? And you believe it?

this is all inspired from the quora and hadeeths go see the site

[rambo]

Also, Palestinians and other extreme muslum groups are brought up to hate Israel and Jewish people in general. Israelis and Jewish people are NOT brought up to hate Palestinians. IMHO thats the root of the problem and the differene between peace and violence.

In other words blame it on the Palestinians, and we can all be happy.

The root of this problem is that BOTH parties are brought up to hate, first and foremost. That's the problem with this dynamic, is that it is ridiculosuly simple, yet remains so complex. Everything is a reaction to another reaction that was a reaction to something else. Tracing each action is relatively pointless at this point.

Rak Ani, no one is going to debate who is a "good" religious person. I know my Bible better than most "devout" Christians, same with my Koran, yet I'm not religious. I can say the same for countless other people, it is not simply a matter of one religion having more educated people.

Everyone seems to be generalizing here, in that pointing fingers from one side or the other is very easy.

[Rak_Ani]

Fresh from the news....
Yesterday evening a 20 years old student went jogging in Jerusalem. A car with Palestinian terrorists from "El Aqsa martyr brigades" passed him and shot him dead. This was just another one of the thousands of terrorist shootings since the second intifada started. The "problem" started when the identity of the young man was revealed. He was Arabic. His name was George Huri (probably Christian) and his grandfather was murdered in a terrorist bombing in 1974 by Palestinian terrorists asa well. When the Palestinians found out his identity the called Reuters and said they want to appologize to the young man's family and said they thought he was a Jew. To wrap this insanity up in one big package of madness, the terrorists declaired the murdered student a "shahid" (martyr). This is what Israel is expected to have peace talks with....

[FCECC2]

im wondering when this religion craziness while stop

[rambo]

And Mehdi is NOT going to come to lead a religious war. He is prophesied to bring about the day of judgment, nothing more. He is the coming of not necessarily a "savior", but rather a catalyst for the end of the world.

Mehdi is going to show up and wonder how certain members of the Ummah have gone so terribly astray in their beliefs.

Mehid is supposed to come at a time when the entire world will be able to hear his call. Many times that is interpreted as a time when technology can interconnect everything. I don't know where you are pulling this Jihad B.S. Christians are "people of the book" and it is clearly stated in the Koran. Jews are as well, I don't see the philosophy in "shirk-ing" everyone so that you can rationalize wars.

[rambo]

That's great Rak Ani, I'm sure there are plenty of wire taps that show the opposite, what are you getting at? THERE IS NO innocent party here. No one's hands remain free of blood. If you don't believe that you are as deluded as those you claim to be terrorists.

[OGPackin]

In other words blame it on the Palestinians, and we can all be happy.

The root of this problem is that BOTH parties are brought up to hate, first and foremost. That's the problem with this dynamic, is that it is ridiculosuly simple, yet remains so complex. Everything is a reaction to another reaction that was a reaction to something else. Tracing each action is relatively pointless at this point.

Rak Ani, no one is going to debate who is a "good" religious person. I know my Bible better than most "devout" Christians, same with my Koran, yet I'm not religious. I can say the same for countless other people, it is not simply a matter of one religion having more educated people.

Everyone seems to be generalizing here, in that pointing fingers from one side or the other is very easy.

I think ur wrong here Rambo and i can prove it with facts. The facts are, Palestinians and other extreme muslum groups teach their children in special schools ( if u can call them schools ) to hate Jewish people. They dont teach them math, english or science. They teach them hate and that its a good thing to stap explosives to their bodies and kill innocent men, women and children. This is a FACT and theres no denying it. There is NOTHING like that taught to young Jewish kids!

OG

[Rak_Ani]

That's great Rak Ani, I'm sure there are plenty of wire taps that show the opposite, what are you getting at? THERE IS NO innocent party here. No one's hands remain free of blood. If you don't believe that you are as deluded as those you claim to be terrorists.

I never claimed Israel is innocent, but I do claim that on the Israeli side there's a will to solve things and reach an agreement, and a will to evacute the territories in return for peace. That will is missing on the Palestinian side which keeps proving over and over that they still aren't ready for peace.

[OGPackin]

Also the facts are Israel has offered on serveral occasions to give back land to the Palestinians and make concessions, but have been turned down by Arafat and his group.

Im also not claiming Israel is completely innocent here either. What i am saying though is Israel has proven they are willing to make concessions and live in peace. I dont think u can say the same for the Palestinians? Atleast up to now anyway.

OG

[MilitiaGuy]

If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine,why aren´t the Arabs entitled to the land of Spain?
if the Jews who were ousted from Palestine nearly 2000 years ago and lived there as captives (not rulers) can be allowed to return en-masse to Palestine; then by the same pretext, the Arabs should be allowed to return to Spain, where they actually ruled for hundreds of years.

[M PWR]

FFS dude, don't you get it, NO ONE is entitled to any land. Only the ground u stand on at ur feet right now, is the only space u deserve to occupy.

Just because you are some religion, or some race, don't mean you own or have a right to land ur ancestor had!!

Make the most of what you have. I have plently of land where i live. I'd share it with you, if you weren't such an asshole.

-Sean

[Superhuman]

I hope the FBI reads your crap posts and takes your ass to guantanamo bay.

hell yeah, bro. fu ck this talibani afghani middle eastern sh it.

[BOUNCER]

Actually Rak_Ani I can testify to terrorist schools in the middle east, first hand. M'guy I'm sure can check up on this since he's in Lebanon. On the completion of our mandate in South Lebanon, and on the week of our withdrawal the Hezbollah went into Tibnine orphanage and took all the male children and indoctrinated them into an Hezbollah 'orphange'!. M'guy, if you want to check it, its located just north of Al Yatun and Tibnine. Since our mandate had expired our hands were, sadly, tied and we couldn't take action to prevent this happening.

Btw, M'guy. Can you explain your signature here for the ignorant among us please?

[Tock]

im wondering when this religion craziness while stop

Good question . . .
Looks to me like this discussion has devolved into one side beating the other side over the head with lots of quotes from smart people who know lots about religion but don't have much common sense. Plus some below-the-belt comments, too. That's why I dropped out of it . . .
--Tock

[BOUNCER]

Good question . . .
Looks to me like this discussion has devolved into one side beating the other side over the head with lots of quotes from smart people who know lots about religion but don't have much common sense. Plus some below-the-belt comments, too. That's why I dropped out of it . . .
--Tock

Tock if you dropped out of it for any reason its because it just went beyond your comprehension. What Rak_Ani is trying to point out (I think) is the difference between the bible where Jerusalem is mentioned probably hundreds of times and the holy Quran where Jerusalem isn't mentioned at all. If my reading into it is correct, and forgive my simplified view. Mohammed never made mention of Jerusalem as being anything holy to Muslims but the Quran tried to write it into its stories with vague references to a Mosque furthest from Mecca. Given the hatred of Jews and christians by Muslims both M'guy and Physio are being very civil here and I continue to find the thread interesting.

[BOUNCER]

FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of God."



Mmmmm, frightening.

[BOUNCER]

To put Islamic greed into prospective lets compare the land mass of Israel to the land mass of its and our enemy. If you look very carefull you'll see tiny little Israel in red surrounded (in green) by 350 million hate filled Muslims.

[BOUNCER]

As Rak_Ani mentioned earlier, visit Israel and just see how much America's support is appricated. Its EVERYWHERE, and unlike their Muslim neighbours Israel never turn tail on America.

[BOUNCER]

hell yeah, bro. fu ck this talibani afghani middle eastern sh it.

Now, read your signature,


War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -John Stuart Mill...

Don't you think your being a tiny bit hypocritical?

[MilitiaGuy]

Actually Rak_Ani I can testify to terrorist schools in the middle east, first hand. M'guy I'm sure can check up on this since he's in Lebanon. On the completion of our mandate in South Lebanon, and on the week of our withdrawal the Hezbollah went into Tibnine orphanage and took all the male children and indoctrinated them into an Hezbollah 'orphange'!. M'guy, if you want to check it, its located just north of Al Yatun and Tibnine. Since our mandate had expired our hands were, sadly, tied and we couldn't take action to prevent this happening.

Btw, M'guy. Can you explain your signature here for the ignorant among us please?

those orphen need some one to take care of them hezbollah was this helping hand ,hezbollah introduced them to the real islam befor the get lost in the real life without any guider they will end up beeing theifs,killers...
my signature mean : allah akbar

[BOUNCER]

those orphen need some one to take care of them hezbollah was this helping hand ,hezbollah introduced them to the real islam befor the get lost in the real life without any guider they will end up beeing theifs,killers...
my signature mean : allah akbar

Are you seriously going to tell me that hezbollah won't turn them into killers ?, or when they are killers will you and the Hezbollah make excuse's and blaim it on others?

[MilitiaGuy]

Are you seriously going to tell me that hezbollah won't turn them into killers ?, or when they are killers will you and the Hezbollah make excuse's and blaim it on others?

u consider soldiers killers,50% of them will be officers or surgents in the lebneese army,some of them will get paid to study in the american university of beirut (hezbollah paid me to get my bs from the AUB) they will be great ppl for the society

[BOUNCER]

u consider soldiers killers,50% of them will be officers or surgents in the lebneese army,some of them will get paid to study in the american university of beirut (hezbollah paid me to get my bs from the AUB) they will be great ppl for the society

And what will you do when called upon by Hezbollah/Syria to repay your debt to them?. I mean, Hamas and the P.A. paid for the education of the young female solicitor/suicide bomber who murdered 22 incident civilians Haifa last year. Are you prepared to repay them in kind?. If Hezbollah decides to re-start its hostage taking in Beirut will you be prepared to kidnap and hold hostage for 5 years or more your American/British or French lecturer's?. Would you be prepared to carry out a similar attack like the one which murdered 250+ US Marines in Beirut in 1984 as repayment?.
After all you say in your Signature "I am ready to die if I must".

[MilitiaGuy]

And what will you do when called upon by Hezbollah/Syria to repay your debt to them?. I mean, Hamas and the P.A. paid for the education of the young female solicitor/suicide bomber who murdered 22 incident civilians Haifa last year. Are you prepared to repay them in kind?. If Hezbollah decides to re-start its hostage taking in Beirut will you be prepared to kidnap and hold hostage for 5 years or more your American/British or French lecturer's?. Would you be prepared to carry out a similar attack like the one which murdered 250+ US Marines in Beirut in 1984 as repayment?.
After all you say in your Signature "I'm am ready to die if I must".

hezbollah will not ask me to do such think actualy i got an acceptance from the party to travel and continue my study, i am actualy working on a visa to study in usa,canada or france

[BOUNCER]

hezbollah will not ask me to do such think actualy i got an acceptance from the party to travel and continue my study, i am actualy working on a visa to study in usa,canada or france

Frightening. Truely, truely frightening.

[Tock]

Tock if you dropped out of it for any reason its because it just went beyond your comprehension. What Rak_Ani is trying to point out (I think) is the difference between the bible where Jerusalem is mentioned probably hundreds of times and the holy Quran where Jerusalem isn't mentioned at all. If my reading into it is correct, and forgive my simplified view. Mohammed never made mention of Jerusalem as being anything holy to Muslims but the Quran tried to write it into its stories with vague references to a Mosque furthest from Mecca. Given the hatred of Jews and christians by Muslims both M'guy and Physio are being very civil here and I continue to find the thread interesting.

Well, I'm glad you continue to find the thread interesting.
It doesn't really matter what the Bible says or what the Koran says, as they are only the babblings of humans, not of any divinity. I'm also unimpressed with some other stuff, and really, it's pointless to wade through what one or the other prophet may or may not have said or meant to say, because it's all utter nonsense.
People would be much better off without all that bible-babble, especially the variety sold by TV hucksters and the "Turn or Burn" fear peddlers.
I'm an atheist, and I can get along just fine with Christians or Jews or Muslims. You'd think religious leaders, the ones well-versed in their superstitions, would be able to do the same. Demonstrates how atheism is more suitable for World Peace . . .
Continue on as you will . . .
--Tock

[OGPackin]

hezbollah will not ask me to do such think actualy i got an acceptance from the party to travel and continue my study, i am actualy working on a visa to study in usa,canada or france

Now thats scary!

OG

[Animal Cracker]

I think flight training schools are out of the question!

[Rak_Ani]

M'Guy: "If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine,why aren´t the Arabs entitled to the land of Spain?'

You just can't get enough of it, can u?

M'Guy:"u consider soldiers killers,50% of them will be officers or surgents in the lebneese army'

Actually, my little hizballon, you and physio are the ones who considers soldiers as killers. You use it as an excuse to kill Israeli citizen when you say they're all soldiers anyway.

M'Guy: "hezbollah will not ask me to do such think actualy i got an acceptance from the party to travel and continue my study, i am actualy working on a visa to study in usa,canada or france"

Why? Don't you want to serve the highest cause and become a martyr? Or is that "right" reserved for those who are too weak and uneducated to understand what they're really doing?

[MilitiaGuy]

I think flight training schools are out of the question!

beleive it or not my friend he was in hezbollah now he is studying in a flight school

[OGPackin]

beleive it or not my friend he was in hezbollah now he is studying in a flight school

Gets scarier every minute! So whats ur friends name? And where is he studying in flight school? I think Home Land Security would like to know also.

OG

[SV-1]

Well, I'm glad you continue to find the thread interesting.
It doesn't really matter what the Bible says or what the Koran says, as they are only the babblings of humans, not of any divinity. I'm also unimpressed with some other stuff, and really, it's pointless to wade through what one or the other prophet may or may not have said or meant to say, because it's all utter nonsense.
People would be much better off without all that bible-babble, especially the variety sold by TV hucksters and the "Turn or Burn" fear peddlers.
I'm an atheist, and I can get along just fine with Christians or Jews or Muslims. You'd think religious leaders, the ones well-versed in their superstitions, would be able to do the same. Demonstrates how atheism is more suitable for World Peace . . .
Continue on as you will . . .
--Tock

I try to make it a policy not to post in threads of this nature.

But as a man who was raised Pentecostal Christian and is now a confirmed atheist I feel a need to respond to Tock's post.

Bro I agree with you 100%

[MilitiaGuy]

Gets scarier every minute! So whats ur friends name? And where is he studying in flight school? I think Home Land Security would like to know also.

OG

u still mistake us with al quaida **** quaida is an organization its not a party we r a party all the members are educated ppl not like quaiida,my friend is studying in a flight school not because we wont to explode building but because he have passion for flying . and i am sure if i got my visa to usa i will be a great member in the society .

[OGPackin]

u still mistake us with al quaida **** quaida is an organization its not a party we r a party all the members are educated ppl not like quaiida,my friend is studying in a flight school not because we wont to explode building but because he have passion for flying . and i am sure if i got my visa to usa i will be a great member in the society .

No M'guy im not mistaken. If u call hezbollah educated then that makes u worse then Al quiada. And IMO theres no difference between and educated terrorist and and uneducated one. A terrorist is a terrorist!

OG

[Superhuman]

_________________------------edited-----------__________________

That is not the kind of stuff I want to see - restrain yourself - because for a terrorist, he is coming across more peacefully than you in this rant - CYCLEON