'Lurker at the threshold'
Free speech bro. but why do i get the feeling that you are here to stir the pot and not share your beliefs? whatever your reason go ahead and say what you want. you are not offending anyone. just dont get surprised if you get all this heat and negative comments. if you were a true beleiver in your cause join a rally or something.
Spoon
Anabolic Member
Tock oh Tock, to respond gives his pro-terrorist propaganda legitimacy and that i will not do!Originally Posted by Tock
Im also very surprised that a gay american man like urself takes the views u do. Have u ever gotten into a fight just because ur gay? Has anyone ever called u a faggot, pole smoker, fudge packer or any other name that got ur blood boiling u had no choice but to defend urself and way of life? Well, i can tell u right now i have just for being Jewish. Iv gotten into many of fights growing up simply because im Jewish. Iv been called names that i care not to repeat just because im Jewish. Now, coming from another minority group that gets vilified ( being gay ) id expect a heck of alot more understanding from u then ur showing. But i guess thats just ur ignorance showing? Also, incase u dont get it. Hezballah and all the other extreme-muslum groups hate americans just as much as Israelis. That means U my gay misguided chipmunk.
OG
Anabolic Member
Huh . . . so now I'm your little "chipmunk?" Hmmm . . .
1) nope. Not that I didn't want to; it was more because stuff like this usually happened at work, and they had a policy of no tolerance for fisticuffs. First one to throw a punch was gone, no questions asked. So instead, I developed my wit, which sometimes serves me well and sometimes fails me miserably. But no, no fisticuffs.
But had those egg-throwing creeps not been zipping down the road in the back of their truck that one night in the gay part of town, yah, I would have given 'em a good what-for.
2) Ok, so we have lots in common . . .
3) Well, let's just say that I have empathy not only for the Jews over there in the mid-east, but for the Arabs as well.
And no, that's not ignorance showing, it's what's called being "able to see both sides of the situation." Since you are sympathetic with one side, I wouldn't expect you to see things the way I do.
4) Look, I don't much care for either side. If the fundamentalist Jews got a hold of me, my goose would be cooked every bit as much as if the fundamentalist Arabs got me.
So since I don't like either side, it's simple to advocate equal justice for both sides, and leave it at that.
-Tock
"Your Little Chipmunk"
Anabolic Member
Lol, yes ur my little misguided chipmunk...
My fights were with kids growing up. Thankfully i havent had to beat down some anti-Semitic co-worker. So u have seen and felt what im talking about? Its not a good feeling is it? To be put down just because of ur sexual preference, well its not any different of a feeling when someone puts me down just for being Jewish. And its no different to a black man being put down just because of the color of his skin. Get my point?
If uv been reading my posts, i have said Israel is not totally faultless here. Both sides have extremists that will make peace in the middle east slim.
OG
Senior Member
why banned??? not allowed to have an opinion. You can bash on the palestinians, but i can't bash on the Israeli's???
hmmmmmm...
Senior Member
so i'm a roach cuz you're jewish ancestors are the worst neighbors in history?
Senior Member
it's only pro-terrorist cuz your a jew. right?
Senior Member
"If uv been reading my posts, i have said Israel is not totally faultless here. Both sides have extremists that will make peace in the middle east slim."
agreed og.
Anabolic Member
No, ur a cockaroach for coming on here and spewing ur "opinion" which gave no substance to this thread. Thats why! Come with real facts not ur bigoted comments. I mean coming on here and spewingThat takes some real brain power to come up with that.
I also think u need to go back and re-read these threads. No one has been or is bashing palestinians as a people. Now, terrorists who strap explosives to themselves and kill innocent men, women, and children is a different story. And dont forget, extreme muslums hate Americans just as much as Israelis, so in otherwords they will kill u just as quick as they will kill me. GOT IT!
So now go crawl back under the rock u came from!
OG
Senior Member
i still don't understand, why is my comment "bigoted"?
Last edited by bigbouncinballs; 03-23-2004 at 02:39 PM.
Anabolic Member
I shouldn't have to spell it out for u, but saying its a reason to celebrate because the Jewish population has decreased is a bigoted comment. Do u feel the same way about blacks, latins, Indians...etc? Or just Jewish people? Lets see if ur an equal opportunist bigot or not....
OG
Banned
actualy all hezbollah memebers are nice guys in society we have great locations in the governement and in the society...hezbollah is the most respectfull party in lebanon everyone know it...those lebanese ppl dont hate the palestian fighters fighting for a cause and for freedom actualy they hate the palestians that are inside lebanon and dealing with drugs and other bad things u shouldnt mix btw palestinian fighters and palestinian drug dealers.
no one is brainwashing anyone mind we live in a democratic country actualy my dad is a communist yet we still live in the same house.
Senior Member
this depends on context. As far as this thread is concerned, in my opinion, if the jewish population is depleting in israel, i see it as a good thing.
why is it ok to call the palestinians "terrorists" and other demeaning words but not ok to do the same to the jews in israel?
see if you can argue the point w/out using the word bigot... i know it's difficult.
Banned
actualy everyone know that each point is true those points dont need a proof
Anabolic Member
1) Yah, well, just because someone says "words" to ya isn't really enough reason to resort to violence. IMHO, a Man amongst Men develops his wits as well as his muscles so he can control situations without resorting to "bitch-slapping."Lol, yes ur my little misguided chipmunk...
My fights were with kids growing up. Thankfully i havent had to beat down some anti-Semitic co-worker. So u have seen and felt what im talking about? Its not a good feeling is it? To be put down just because of ur sexual preference, well its not any different of a feeling when someone puts me down just for being Jewish. And its no different to a black man being put down just because of the color of his skin.
1) Get my point?
2) If uv been reading my posts, i have said Israel is not totally faultless here. Both sides have extremists that will make peace in the middle east slim.
OG
2) True. So what say you and me zip over there and do some serious bitch-slapping of those miscreants, scaliwags, and ne'er-do wells, eh?
--Tock
Senior Member
lil' chipmunk and og, i'll go bitch-slappin' both sides any day.
just had to get the bash on israel cuz noone else will.
Anabolic Member
Then ur a bigot and ur making my point for me! ANNNNNNNND again go back and RE-READ the threads. I challenge u to find somewhere where iv said "palestinians" are terrorists. I use the words "extreme muslums" or hezballah. Iv NEVER said palestinians in general are all terrorists. Those are facts, i dont have to argue facts! Now lets see u answer my questions and also come up with facts not just ur opinion. Because opinions are like ass-holes, we all have them!
OG
Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by Tock
Y'know Militiaguy, what would be great is if you would post a website address on each of your points confirming what you've got to say. It'll take some effort, but something tells me there's enough stuff on the Internet that you'll be able to do it . . .
Oh mon ami, anytime you post a comment that "everyone" knows is true like "The planet is round" or "There is a god" be assurred that someone will step up to dispute that point and ask to know how you reached your conclusion. If you offer nothing other than your assertion, then you're regarded as merely an opinionated idiot. If, on the other hand, you offer irrefutable proof, you're regarded as a genius, and a prince amongst men.
So . . . you just can't say that "everyone know each point is true" because, sad to say, no, not everyone knows that those points are true.
If in the future you want your "points" to be regarded as more than just the idle opinions of someone who can't (or won't) bother to back them up, I suggest that you prepare yourself to present references to impartial information sources that will substantiate any claims you care to make.
Now, I've heard that Israel is pretty awful on civil rights enforcement, so I rather suspect that most (if not all) of your points are valid. Nevertheless, they are of the sort that just about everyone is going to insist on verification before they take it as true. I think it would be a good idea if you did some digging around on the internet and dug up some references, or post the source of where you got your information (was it from a book or a leaflet or a website? and who wrote it--some crazed nut no one has ever heard of, or a Nobel Prize winning scholar?)
Yah, it would be cool to see ya back up your points. I'd really like to see that . . .
--Tock
ps--This isn't meant to flame ya, this is to let you know what the customary standards for meaningful debate are. Assertions, and validations from credible sources. Just like when I got on the guys a while back, chiding them for beleiving the Bible story of a talking snake, I would have been persuaded to their side had they been able to show me how it would be possible for a snake to speak. Or even if they could show me a talking snake, or tell me where I could find one. But, there are no such things as talking snakes, but there are such things as folk tales of talking animals, and it's much more likely that the story of the talking snake in Genesis is a fable, and did not ever happen.
Yah, it's tough . . . but ya gotta do it . . .
National Level Bodybuilder/Hall of Famer/RETIRED
Bouncer posted the same type of thread. I don't see everyone calling his thread propaganda. They both are.
I don't care. This is not the place for propaganda from either side.
These threads are going no where. Everyone is just throwing their slanted opinions back and forth. Yet Tock, who chooses to remain impartial and look at the big picture, is called spineless.
The US shouldn't support either side and just let them work this $hit out themselves. If the Middle East ends up a giant dust bowl. F uck it, they did it to themselves.
Anabolic Member
U know Tock, its funny how u pick and choose what u want to respond to in each post. And most of the time u just dont get it do u. U choose to focus on me beating down an anti-semitic rather then the real heart of the matter. This is the meat and potatos of what i posted.
"So u have seen and felt what im talking about? Its not a good feeling is it? To be put down just because of ur sexual preference, well its not any different of a feeling when someone puts me down just for being Jewish. And its no different to a black man being put down just because of the color of his skin."
But u chose to focus on the part that has very little if any barring on these threads. Its sad really!
OG
Senior Member
i never said "you" og, said this. so re-read yourself. fact: this guy is pro-palestine, and everyone calls his propaganda "pro-terrorism", israel does the same but few say anything. that is all i'm saying.
no racial comments, no hating, just a double standard.
Anabolic Member
I thought I responded quite well with my initial
"Yah, well . . ."
as it indicated that I had indeed experienced the circumstances you mentioned, and agreement that they were, indeed, unpleasant.
Then I went on to offer further comment to bring further enlightenment and a possible Rennaisance to your critical thinking processes. And all you give your Little Chipmunk in return is a hard time . . . sigh . . .
--Tock
Anabolic Member
Well u were answering me when u wrote it, so i thought u were talking about me. I apologize if u weren't!
Just so u know, M'guy is Hezbollah who supports the Palestinians. And Hezbollah has been recognized as a terrorist group. Theres a BIG difference in the two.
OG
Anabolic Member
Ahhh ok i see the "Yah, well" now...lol Listen, we really arent disagreeing on alot here. I do agree with u on some, just some of what ur saying. Just so u know...
OG
Junior Member
Here's some educational material for those of you that want to take the time out to read it.
The Palestinians voluntarily moved off of their land when the threat of war was apparent with the promis that once Isreal was overthrown they could come back and re-occupy.
The catch was is that Isreal kicked the hell out of everyone in six days and said you wanted to leave, so you can not come back. You can live in your settlement now. They made their choices and it didn't turn out the way they expected. What was Isreal to do?
The 1967 Six-Day War
by Mitchell Bard
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Israel consistently expressed a desire to negotiate with its neighbors. In an address to the UN General Assembly on October 10, 1960, Foreign Minister Golda Meir challenged Arab leaders to meet with Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to negotiate a peace settlement. Nasser answered on October 15, saying that Israel was trying to deceive world opinion, and reiterating that his country would never recognize the Jewish State.(1)
The Arabs were equally adamant in their refusal to negotiate a separate settlement for the refugees. As Nasser told the United Arab Republic National Assembly March 26, 1964:
Israel and the imperialism around us, which confront us, are two separate things. There have been attempts to separate them, in order to break up the problems and present them in an imaginary light as if the problem of Israel is the problem of the refugees, by the solution of which the problem of Palestine will also be solved and no residue of the problem will remain. The danger of Israel lies in the very existence of Israel as it is in the present and in what she represents.(2)
Meanwhile, Syria used the Golan Heights, which tower 3,000 feet above the Galilee, to shell Israeli farms and villages. Syria's attacks grew more frequent in 1965 and 1966, while Nasser's rhetoric became increasingly bellicose: "We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand," he said on March 8, 1965. "We shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood."(3
Nasser challenged Israel to fight almost daily. "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight," he said on May 27.(11) The following day, he added: "We will not accept any...coexistence with Israel...Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel....The war with Israel is in effect since 1948."(12)
King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30. Nasser then announced:
The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel...to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.(13)
President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq joined in the war of words: "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map."(14) On June 4, Iraq joined the military alliance with Egypt, Jordan and Syria.
The Arab rhetoric was matched by the mobilization of Arab forces. Approximately 250,000 troops (nearly half in Sinai), more than 2,000 tanks and 700 aircraft ringed Israel.(15)
By this time, Israeli forces had been on alert for three weeks. The country could not remain fully mobilized indefinitely, nor could it allow its sea lane through the Gulf of Aqaba to be interdicted. Israel had no choice but preemptive action. To do this successfully, Israel needed the element of surprise. Had it waited for an Arab invasion, Israel would have been at a potentially catastrophic disadvantage. On June 5, the order was given to attack Egypt.
The U.S. Position
The United States tried to prevent the war through negotiations, but it was not able to persuade Nasser or the other Arab states to cease their belligerent statements and actions. Still, right before the war, Johnson warned: "Israel will not be alone unless it decides to go alone."(16) Then, when the war began, the State Department announced: "Our position is neutral in thought, word and deed."(17)
Moreover, while the Arabs were falsely accusing the United States of airlifting supplies to Israel, Johnson imposed an arms embargo on the region (France, Israel's other main arms supplier also embargoed arms to Israel).
By contrast, the Soviets were supplying massive amounts of arms to the Arabs. Simultaneously, the armies of Kuwait, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq were contributing troops and arms to the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian fronts.(18)
Jerusalem Is Attacked
Prime Minister Levi Eshkol sent a message to King Hussein saying Israel would not attack Jordan unless he initiated hostilities. When Jordanian radar picked up a cluster of planes flying from Egypt to Israel, and the Egyptians convinced Hussein the planes were theirs, he then ordered the shelling of West Jerusalem. It turned out the planes were Israel's, and were returning from destroying the Egyptian air force on the ground.
After Jordan launched its attack on June 5, approximately 325,000 Palestinians living in the West Bank fled.(19) These were Jordanian citizens who moved from one part of what they considered their country to another, primarily to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a war.
A Palestinian refugee who was an administrator in a UNRWA camp in Jericho said Arab politicians had spread rumors in the camp. "They said all the young people would be killed. People heard on the radio that this is not the end, only the beginning, so they think maybe it will be a long war and they want to be in Jordan."(20)
Some Palestinians who left preferred to live in an Arab state rather than under Israeli military rule. Members of various PLO factions fled to avoid capture by the Israelis. Nils-Göran Gussing, the person appointed by the UN Secretary-General to investigate the situation, found that many Arabs also feared they would no longer be able to receive money from family members working abroad.(21)
Israeli forces ordered a handful of Palestinians to move for "strategic and security reasons." In some cases, they were allowed to return in a few days, in others; Israel offered to help them resettle elsewhere.(22)
The Stunning Victory
After just six days of fighting, Israeli forces broke through the enemy lines and were in a position to march on Cairo, Damascus and Amman. A cease*fire was invoked on June 10.
The victory came at a very high cost. In storming the Golan Heights, Israel suffered 115 dead-roughly the number of Americans killed during Operation Desert Storm. Altogether, Israel lost twice as many men — 777 dead and 2,586 wounded-in proportion to her total population as the U.S. lost in eight years of fighting in Vietnam.(23) Also, despite the incredible success of the air campaign, the Israeli Air Force lost 46 of its 200 fighters.(24)
By the end of the war, Israel had conquered enough territory to more than triple the size of the area it controlled, from 8,000 to 26,000 square miles. The victory enabled Israel to unify Jerusalem. Israeli forces had also captured the Sinai, Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank.
Israel now ruled more than three-quarters of a million Palestinians — most of whom were hostile to the government. Nevertheless, more than 9,000 Palestinian families were reunited in 1967. Ultimately, more than 60,000 Palestinians were allowed to return.(25)
In November 1967, the United Nations Security Council adopted Resolution 242, which established a formula for Arab-Israeli peace whereby Israel would withdraw from territories occupied in the war in exchange for peace with its neighbors. This resolution has served as the basis for peace negotiations from that time on.
Israel's leaders fully expected to negotiate a peace agreement with their neighbors that would involve some territorial compromise. Therefore, instead of annexing the West Bank, a military administration was created. No occupation is pleasant for the inhabitants, but the Israeli authorities did try to minimize the impact on the population. Don Peretz, a frequent writer on the situation of Arabs in Israel and a sharp critic of the Israeli government, visited the West Bank shortly after the Israeli troops had taken over. He found they were trying to restore normal life and prevent any incidents that might encourage the Arabs to leave their homes.(26)
Except for the requirement that school texts in the territories be purged of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic language, the authorities tried not to interfere with the inhabitants. They did provide economic assistance; for example, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip were moved from camps to new homes. This stimulated protests from Egypt, which had done nothing for the refugees when it controlled the area.
Arabs were given freedom of movement. They were allowed to travel to and from Jordan. In 1972, elections were held in the West Bank. Women and non-landowners, unable to participate under Jordanian rule, were now permitted to vote.
East Jerusalem Arabs were given the option of retaining Jordanian citizenship or acquiring Israeli citizenship. They were recognized as residents of united Jerusalem and given the right to vote and run for the city council. Also, Islamic holy places were put in the care of a Muslim Council. Despite the Temple Mount's significance in Jewish history, Jews were barred from conducting prayers there.
By the end of the war, Israel had conquered enough territory to more than triple the size of the area it controlled, from 8,000 to 26,000 square miles. The victory enabled Israel to unify Jerusalem. Israeli forces had also captured the Sinai, Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank.
Israel now ruled more than three-quarters of a million Palestinians — most of whom were hostile to the government. Nevertheless, more than 9,000 Palestinian families were reunited in 1967. Ultimately, more than 60,000 Palestinians were allowed to return.(25)
In November 1967, the United Nations Security Council adopted Resolution 242, which established a formula for Arab-Israeli peace whereby Israel would withdraw from territories occupied in the war in exchange for peace with its neighbors. This resolution has served as the basis for peace negotiations from that time on.
Israel's leaders fully expected to negotiate a peace agreement with their neighbors that would involve some territorial compromise. Therefore, instead of annexing the West Bank, a military administration was created. No occupation is pleasant for the inhabitants, but the Israeli authorities did try to minimize the impact on the population. Don Peretz, a frequent writer on the situation of Arabs in Israel and a sharp critic of the Israeli government, visited the West Bank shortly after the Israeli troops had taken over. He found they were trying to restore normal life and prevent any incidents that might encourage the Arabs to leave their homes.(26)
Except for the requirement that school texts in the territories be purged of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic language, the authorities tried not to interfere with the inhabitants. They did provide economic assistance; for example, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip were moved from camps to new homes. This stimulated protests from Egypt, which had done nothing for the refugees when it controlled the area.
Arabs were given freedom of movement. They were allowed to travel to and from Jordan. In 1972, elections were held in the West Bank. Women and non-landowners, unable to participate under Jordanian rule, were now permitted to vote.
East Jerusalem Arabs were given the option of retaining Jordanian citizenship or acquiring Israeli citizenship. They were recognized as residents of united Jerusalem and given the right to vote and run for the city council. Also, Islamic holy places were put in the care of a Muslim Council. Despite the Temple Mount's significance in Jewish history, Jews were barred from conducting prayers there.
Anabolic Member
I am given to understand that there are groups within Lebanon's Hezbollah where some are terrorists and others are not (but are politicians), sort of like the conservative, moderate, and liberal wings of both the US Republican and Democratic parties . . . so just because one is a member of Hezbollah does not necessitate being a terrorist, much as one can be a Republican without crusading for prayer in public schools . . . or am I mistaken?
-Tock
Retired Vet
An exhibition in Terror, produced and directed by.... GUess who?
http://server12.castup.net/cunet/gm....pMediaID=18920
Anabolic Member
There's another version that goes back to the 1940's at
http://www.elca.org/jle/articles/con...s_kenneth.html
I can undertand how Arabs would have been angry after the UN took the land they were living on and gave it to Israel. Seems to me folks in Delaware would be just as upset had the UN taken their property and given it to millions of foreigners.
But history is history, what's done is done.
War, IMHO, is still needless for the Arabs to get their property back. As someone else pointed out in this thread, and as I've seen reported in the Dallas Morning News, the % of Arabs living in Israel is growing, due to their greater birthrate compared to the Jewish birthrate.
It seems a better plan for the Arabs to pursue would be to support the further increase of Arab families inside Israel to increase their political strength, until it gets so strong that a majority of Arab-Israelis could democratically vote to re-name itself and merge with the Palestinian territories.
Ya, if I was a terrorist, that's what I'd do . . . send $$$ to Arabs inside Israel to "make love, not war," and wait 50 years or so. Sure would beat all this angry BS crap.
--Tock
Anabolic Member
OMFG! I cant believe u just wrote that. Ur HUGELY mistaken Tock. The liberal wings of either party here in the US dont strap explosives on themselves, or little kids for that matter and go out and kill innocent men, women and children. Also yes in some counties Hezbollah is recognized as a legitimate government, but not here in the US. Annnnd the political ( IMO there one in the same ) side of Hezbollah supports what the suicide bombers are doing. They do NOT speak out against them, they praise them!
Please, Please Tock tell me u see the difference?!? No long winded responses please.
OG
Banned
pakistan is not a middle eastern country.
pakistan is an asian country.
it's located in southeast asia right next to china and india
in fact all pakistanies are actually asians and not middle eastern.
what most people think is that you have to be oriental to be asian, this is not true.
Retired Vet
If I was surrounded by 300million mad ba$tards who wanted to murder me I'd want nukes too.
Banned
tock... earlier you were supporting gay people, then abortion, and now ur supporting this crazy militia guy. WTF is wrong with you? Are you part of the ACLU or something?
Tell militia guy to blow the ACLU's headquarters up! J/k
Member
I say a mod suicide bombs this thread.
Associate Member
What I think about terrorists!
Turn the volume UP... This rocks.
http://66.184.207.35/media/die_terro..._Large.wmv.zip
For cable modem users only... (Big file).
Anabolic Member
Ogpackin this is going to sound extremely ignorant and stupid... your here bitching at everyone that has an even a vague negative view of Jewish people... PEOPLE DONT LIKE PEOPLE... sometimes those people happen to be Jewish... but noooo its not cause they're annoying as ****, or they are incompetent at what they do, or because their just not a nice person, its cause the person who opens their mouth about it is anti-Semitic.. I have a number of Jewish friends but as soon as something they do is wrong and someone points it out to them their anti-Semitic. Please stop your bitching. Hitler killed six million Jews in the holocaust but then again the total number is close to 40 million. The slave trade killed nearly 4 million Africans, rock to shackle to 30 people and overboard they go... so why is the holocaust more or a tragic event then that..? Yet Jews ride that out till high heavens... I'm polish in origin and I have been to Auschwitz-Birkenau and yes it’s a horrible place but this doesn’t not give you an excuse to take over the Palestinian land (UN resolution 151) for no apparent reason... As I stated above this a stupid post and I do not mean to offend anyone by it...
Senior Member
??????????????????6 million?????????????????????????
Anabolic Member
I'm sorry 5.6-5.9 million..
Holocaust, the almost complete destruction of Jews in Europe by Nazi Germany and its collaborators during World War II (1939-1945). The leadership of Germany’s Nazi Party ordered the extermination of 5.6 million to 5.9 million Jews
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...Holocaust.html
Senior Member
the holocaust museum and CODOH have dropped it down to ~5.1mil.
Anabolic Member
can you post a link to a credible site..?
Senior Member
one moment...
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