yeah....the second time i ever used winny i was at 11-13% and it was freaky good. I got so hard that people would freak out, it was like literally extremely hard marble everywhere. Just solid hard dense gains. Strength was crazy too. I have only done 5 or 6 cycles with winny included but out of those the first two were amazing. At single digit levels it would be amazing to see what happens. But honestly equipoise would be better for looking good when lean. maybe test/EQ/and winnyv at 50 EOD or 25 ED.