HCG - How important is it?

[BikesNGuns]

Thanks for the info Swifto, its appreciated.

[progressive1]

Thanks for the post swifto. Should hcg be run with an anavar-only cycle? If so, what dosing and how long?

[TwoGuns]

Bump

im in week 15 of my cycle. 525mg/week of test prop. Want to start coming off but was confused as how to best use the hcg i have. Form what i understand start with 500ius 4x per week for first week then 250ius 2x per week? But for how long and should i keep using the hcg and how long shoudl i keep running test?

[PK-V]

I'm currently in the middle of week 7 of 500mg/wk of testosterone

I have a load of hCG on hand but I haven't reconstructed any of it yet, I don't feel like my balls have shrunken much if any, should I start using hCG anyway? I plan on running my cycle up until week 14-15.

A local user told me that you don't always get testicular atrophy on cycle?

And to know if you need any hCG check your ejaculation, if it's runny like water you need some LH stimulation and if it's not your ok?

sorry for the details

any truth to these?

[PK-V]

woof

[Swifto]

Sorry I have been a little late replying...

Long story short. Im in week 15 of my cycle. 525mg/week of test prop. Want to start coming off but was confused as how to best use the hcg i have. Form what i understand start with 500ius 4x per week for first week then 250ius 2x per week? but for how long and should i keep using the hcg and how long shoudl i keep running test?

The protocol you outlined is fine, perhaps 1-2 1000ius shots after 15 weeks.

The duration of the HCG treatment will then be determined by your cycle length? 15 weeks on is a far whack. When do you plan on doing PCT?

Many thanks for clearing that up, swifto...

No problem.

thanks swifto for the fast response mate i will follow it to a tee and see how my recovery is

Keep me updated.

My pleasure.

Thanks for the info Swifto, its appreciated.

No problem.

Thanks for the post swifto. Should hcg be run with an anavar-only cycle? If so, what dosing and how long?

Not need 99% of the time.

I'm currently in the middle of week 7 of 500mg/wk of testosterone

I have a load of hCG on hand but I haven't reconstructed any of it yet, I don't feel like my balls have shrunken much if any, should I start using hCG anyway? I plan on running my cycle up until week 14-15.

A local user told me that you don't always get testicular atrophy on cycle?

And to know if you need any hCG check your ejaculation, if it's runny like water you need some LH stimulation and if it's not your ok?

sorry for the details

any truth to these?

Testicular size is not a sign of function.

Start on 500-750ius 4x in the first week, then down to 250ius 2-3x week.

Next time run it all the way through.

woof

WOOF!

[PK-V]

HA HA

woof

ktnxbi

[pstacks]

Sorry if you already answered this Swifto (or anybody else with more experience than me!!)...

I am planning on running an AI (probably arimidex) during my entire sustanon 500mg/wk (10 weeks) and dbol 40 mg/day (4-6 weeks) as I am prone to estrogen sides. I did not plan on using HCG for the entire cycle, but after reading this I am reconsidering. My guy told me to run it for the last few weeks of cycle only and run it into the beginning week of PCT

My question is, if I do not run the HCG through the whole cycle, should I increase the dose of my AI when I start the HCG?

I know you recommend using it through the entire cycle. I've seen that some people think that running HCG for more than 2-3 weeks can inhibit natural gonadotropin production (i.e. "AR Profile :HCG"). You have not found this to be the case through your experience and others who have tried it? And Swifto, you have said (and other users) multiple times that you do not like HCG as a part of PCT...why is that?

BTW, this is my first REAL cycle. 23 years old, 195 lbs, 5'9". Been lifting for 4 years.

Thanks a TON in advance for the advice.

[Swifto]

Sorry if you already answered this Swifto (or anybody else with more experience than me!!)...

I am planning on running an AI (probably arimidex) during my entire sustanon 500mg/wk (10 weeks) and dbol 40 mg/day (4-6 weeks) as I am prone to estrogen sides. I did not plan on using HCG for the entire cycle, but after reading this I am reconsidering. My guy told me to run it for the last few weeks of cycle only and run it into the beginning week of PCT

Go with Aromasin 10mg/ED or EOD.

You can run the HCG the final weeks, but its best used on cycle, not as a treatment towards the end of the cycle IMHO.

My question is, if I do not run the HCG through the whole cycle, should I increase the dose of my AI when I start the HCG?

Marginally, yes.

I know you recommend using it through the entire cycle. I've seen that some people think that running HCG for more than 2-3 weeks can inhibit natural gonadotropin production (i.e. "AR Profile :HCG"). You have not found this to be the case through your experience and others who have tried it? And Swifto, you have said (and other users) multiple times that you do not like HCG as a part of PCT...why is that?

Because it can inhibit endogenous ganadotropins if used off cycle when eugondal.

BTW, this is my first REAL cycle. 23 years old, 195 lbs, 5'9". Been lifting for 4 years.

Thanks a TON in advance for the advice.

bolds

[pstacks]

bolds

Thanks a lot, I appreciate you taking time to help a noob out! I will run the aromasin starting day 1, and will keep letro on hand just in case. Like I said, prone to gyno...

[jla1986]

great read.

[BJJ]

Swifto, have you ever tried HMG?

If so, on paper it is stronger than HCG.
Have you experienced that difference?

75iu 3xweek is a decent protocol in your view?

[BlInDsIdE]

bump- kick a$$ thread

[Little76]

Swifto, Have you ever had low sperm issues?

My sperm is way low, I cant remember the amount, but it was about 5% of what it should be for a 23yo.
My test is 11nmol, which is also low for my age.
NO CYCLE HISTORY
LH and FSH is in the upper half, but still "normal"

My Dr. had me on hrt for a few months, but I asked if we could try something else. He has prescribed me HCG to try and kickstart my nuts into producing more test and sperm. Im on 1500iu per week (3 shots of 500iu), for 6 weeks. We didnt talk about sides, but do you think I should get arimidex off him incase I get high estrogen?
Do you think this line of attack could help me start making a few more swimmers?

Thinks that you may need to know...
23yo
6 foot
185lbs
12%
Train to get strong for PL
looking at getting to 200-220lb at 15% this year. Just cos its PL, doesnt mean I wanna be fat lol.

My swimmers are my main concern, but if all goes well Id like to cycle later in the year.
20mg Dbol 1-4
500mg test e 1-12
500iu hcg (2x250) 1-12
tamox and clomid 14-20

Can you help a brother out? Any opinions?

[Swifto]

great read.

Thanks.

Swifto, have you ever tried HMG?

If so, on paper it is stronger than HCG.
Have you experienced that difference?

75iu 3xweek is a decent protocol in your view?

On paper? Which paper?

I havent tried it, no. But a few have.

As far as I'm aware it mimics FSH, not LH. Therefore better for spermategenisis not endogenous androgen production (testosterone).

Swifto, Have you ever had low sperm issues?

My sperm is way low, I cant remember the amount, but it was about 5% of what it should be for a 23yo.
My test is 11nmol, which is also low for my age.
NO CYCLE HISTORY
LH and FSH is in the upper half, but still "normal"

My Dr. had me on hrt for a few months, but I asked if we could try something else. He has prescribed me HCG to try and kickstart my nuts into producing more test and sperm. Im on 1500iu per week (3 shots of 500iu), for 6 weeks. We didnt talk about sides, but do you think I should get arimidex off him incase I get high estrogen?
Do you think this line of attack could help me start making a few more swimmers?

Thinks that you may need to know...
23yo
6 foot
185lbs
12%
Train to get strong for PL
looking at getting to 200-220lb at 15% this year. Just cos its PL, doesnt mean I wanna be fat lol.

My swimmers are my main concern, but if all goes well Id like to cycle later in the year.
20mg Dbol 1-4
500mg test e 1-12
500iu hcg (2x250) 1-12
tamox and clomid 14-20

Can you help a brother out? Any opinions?

Sorry, I have been away and wasnt able to answer your question(s) sooner.

HCG is a good idea, but I'd also run a combination of Tamox and/or Clomid.

I dont like the idea of HCG or HMG alone when eugondal (not during PCT if you will). It may cause other issues, such as, inhibiting endo. LH.

wk 1-3 HCG 500ius/ED
wk 2-7 Tamox 20mg/ED
wk 2-7 Clomid 25mg/ED
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/ED

Pretty light, low doses, but should really get your testes going. If you can get HMG, even better.

[Little76]

Thanks.



On paper? Which paper?

I havent tried it, no. But a few have.

As far as I'm aware it mimics FSH, not LH. Therefore better for spermategenisis not endogenous androgen production (testosterone).



Sorry, I have been away and wasnt able to answer your question(s) sooner.

HCG is a good idea, but I'd also run a combination of Tamox and/or Clomid.

I dont like the idea of HCG or HMG alone when eugondal (not during PCT if you will). It may cause other issues, such as, inhibiting endo. LH.

wk 1-3 HCG 500ius/ED
wk 2-7 Tamox 20mg/ED
wk 2-7 Clomid 25mg/ED
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/ED

Pretty light, low doses, but should really get your testes going. If you can get HMG, even better.

I cant get HMG (yet) but Ill look into it.
I accidently wrote my does wrong. Im on 4500iu a week, 3 IM shots of 1500iu.

Ill put that cycle to my doctor as see what he says. Its a lot easier and a SHITLOAD cheaper if he writes a script for me. Being in aus, its risky getting gear from places like ar-r.
What are some of the other sides I could expect from running high does's of HCG? Just so I know what the Dr has put me up against.
Ill get bloods done mid way through to check my est levels.

[Swifto]

swifto can yuo comment on my cycle if i need to add hcg?

Use it how I outline in post 1.

I cant get HMG (yet) but Ill look into it.
I accidently wrote my does wrong. Im on 4500iu a week, 3 IM shots of 1500iu.

Ill put that cycle to my doctor as see what he says. Its a lot easier and a SHITLOAD cheaper if he writes a script for me. Being in aus, its risky getting gear from places like ar-r.
What are some of the other sides I could expect from running high does's of HCG? Just so I know what the Dr has put me up against.
Ill get bloods done mid way through to check my est levels.

I dont think that amount of HCG is needed, not at all in fact.

I have a PM from a member I have been helping for a little while now in regards to sperm count, mobility, etc... And his wife is now pregnant after 5 years of trying!

Best PM I've ever got hands down.

[bogdan84uzy]

HCG comes in 1500ius and 5000ius amps. Usually from Pregnyl. Chinese suppliers also stock their HCG in these two denominations too.

You need to get some sterile empty 10ML glass serum vials. You can get these from AR-R.

You also need to get some bac. water. If you were to mix 5000ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 500ius. If you were to mix 1500ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 150ius.

Once mixed, refridgerate. I tend to use my mixed HCG within 30-45 days.

Its really that simple.

i have a question: if you use only sterile water,because bacteriostatic water is hard to find,how long after the Hcg mix can be used?i am thinking to use a 5000ui/ml dose,diluated in 10 parts-500ui/day so this means 10 days.it is ok with sterile water?i have read somewhere that with sterile water it last only 5 days.which one is true?

thanks!

[Swifto]

i have a question: if you use only sterile water,because bacteriostatic water is hard to find,how long after the Hcg mix can be used?i am thinking to use a 5000ui/ml dose,diluated in 10 parts-500ui/day so this means 10 days.it is ok with sterile water?i have read somewhere that with sterile water it last only 5 days.which one is true?

thanks!

Lasdt cycle I actually used sterile water from the needle exchange here in the UK. It was kept for about 15-20 days in the fridge and it worked fine.

How do I know that? Because HCG gives me a little acne, my testes size returned and my PCT was pretty easy once the SERMs kicked in.

[bogdan84uzy]

Lasdt cycle I actually used sterile water from the needle exchange here in the UK. It was kept for about 15-20 days in the fridge and it worked fine.

How do I know that? Because HCG gives me a little acne, my testes size returned and my PCT was pretty easy once the SERMs kicked in.

thank you very much for the answer!appreciate it!

[chi]

swifto can yuo comment on my cycle if i need to add hcg?

age- 32
weight- 196
BF- 14-15%
height- 5'9"
training- 14 yrs
diet- lmo's sticky bulking diet modded
# of cycles done and last time- 3 and 2008
training- 5 days in the gym no excuses

10 week cycle of ethanate
6 weeks cycle of T Bol
1 – 12 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 – 12 L-dex .25mg ED

pct as follow two weeks after my last shot of TEST-E

Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 2 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 31 - 37 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex

[chi]

thanks buddy

[Little76]

Thats awesome news man.
I'm not trying to get the missus pregnant just yet though, not for about 12 months. I want to buy a house first.
Should I drop my does way down?

[Addictive]

Sorry, but what is bac. Water?

[Far from massive]

That is short for bacteriostatic water ( properly made it is water purified by distillation, reverse ozmosis and deionization with the addition of .9% benzyl alcohol, although lots of home brewers simply add BA to distilled water and call it Bac). By using bacteriostatic water you can keep HCG ( in the fridge) for 30-45 days. If you use regular water or saline water you have to use it immediately.

You can get bacteriostatic water over the net for about 6 dollars for 30ml.

[bogdan84uzy]

That is short for bacteriostatic water ( properly made it is water purified by distillation, reverse ozmosis and deionization with the addition of .9% benzyl alcohol, although lots of home brewers simply add BA to distilled water and call it Bac). By using bacteriostatic water you can keep HCG ( in the fridge) for 30-45 days. If you use regular water or saline water you have to use it immediately.

different opinions:

Lasdt cycle I actually used sterile water from the needle exchange here in the UK. It was kept for about 15-20 days in the fridge and it worked fine.

How do I know that? Because HCG gives me a little acne, my testes size returned and my PCT was pretty easy once the SERMs kicked in.

from what i have read about the growth hormone powder/water mix,which it is done in the same way as pregnyl,that with sterile water it last only 5 days.and with bact.water for 1month.

[Swifto]

different opinions:



from what i have read about the growth hormone powder/water mix,which it is done in the same way as pregnyl,that with sterile water it last only 5 days.and with bact.water for 1month.

Mate, just f*cking mix it and use it. Your over analysing this.

I used sterile water as it was free and I had no bac water to hand. As far as I'm aware bac water is sterile water with BA added, so I could of made it.

Mixed with bac water, its good for 45-50 days. It will only lose potency slightly over time.

I used sterile water and used the mixture for about 20 days. I wouldnt call that using it immediately.

[bogdan84uzy]

Mate, just f*cking mix it and use it. Your over analysing this.

I used sterile water as it was free and I had no bac water to hand. As far as I'm aware bac water is sterile water with BA added, so I could of made it.

Mixed with bac water, its good for 45-50 days. It will only lose potency slightly over time.

I used sterile water and used the mixture for about 20 days. I wouldnt call that using it immediately.

thank you very much for the answer!

[Flier]

That is short for bacteriostatic water ( properly made it is water purified by distillation, reverse ozmosis and deionization with the addition of .9% benzyl alcohol, although lots of home brewers simply add BA to distilled water and call it Bac). By using bacteriostatic water you can keep HCG ( in the fridge) for 30-45 days. If you use regular water or saline water you have to use it immediately.

You can get bacteriostatic water over the net for about 6 dollars for 30ml.

Anyone know what this water is called in a scandinavian language.
Seems like something the local pharmacy should stock?

[alpenguy]

How does HCG affect lipids and overall blood values?

If shut down for a considerable period or never came back fully, would it be advised to start an HCG protocol and then another PCT (Tamox)

I know Dr.Scally has restarted users with high doses of HCG - How long after they were shut down; and how are they now

Would be interesting to know

[bmit]

I'm on HRT with test and deca. Have been on about 3 years now and my Doc prescribes 1000iu HCG every 4 days

[bogdan84uzy]

If LH levels rise post cycle (the majority of the time) the reason why endogenous testosterone levels DONT rise, is the testes. Or testicular dysfunction. Testicular dysfunction is when the testes become atrophied from disuse or desensitised to ganadotrophins, such as LH. This could also be described as being the onset of primary hypogonadism.

Primary hypogonadism is when the testes no longer respond to LH. The testes have a lowered sperm concentration/production and endogenous testosterone level, although LH and FSH are above normal levels. This can be due to desease (Klinefelter's syndrome), over use of anabolic steroids, as described in this study or overuse of HCG. The simple answer to primary hypogonadism is HRT.

what means overuse of Hcg?i have seen it prescribed by doctors for secundary hypogonadism in doses of 1000-2000ui,2times/week for minimum 4-6 months...

i feel that i have desenzitised my body to Hcg with around 4 doses of 5000ui,5 days apart each...i have stop any cycle for about 1 year and a half but still i had testicular athrophy and low libido/sperm count.i dont want to go on HRT,as i want to be fertile in the future.i will try to use Hcg 500ui/day or EOD with 20mg Nolva/day till something happenes(i hope).if not,i will quit and still i will not use TRT.i will use Proviron/Nolva,which still give me a chance to be fertile compared to TRT...

[pstacks]

just reread this thread front to back...great info through and through swifto.

[Swifto]

what means overuse of Hcg?i have seen it prescribed by doctors for secundary hypogonadism in doses of 1000-2000ui,2times/week for minimum 4-6 months...

i feel that i have desenzitised my body to Hcg with around 4 doses of 5000ui,5 days apart each...i have stop any cycle for about 1 year and a half but still i had testicular athrophy and low libido/sperm count.i dont want to go on HRT,as i want to be fertile in the future.i will try to use Hcg 500ui/day or EOD with 20mg Nolva/day till something happenes(i hope).if not,i will quit and still i will not use TRT.i will use Proviron/Nolva,which still give me a chance to be fertile compared to TRT...

Go EOD on the HCG.

Stay on that for a bit, but the 5000ius shots maye have done some damage. Lets hope its reversable.

Stay away from Proviron during PCT in your case.

just reread this thread front to back...great info through and through swifto.

Thank-you and well done.

I wish all that ask questions here have done this also, as many times I have repeated myself.

[bogdan84uzy]

Go EOD on the HCG.

Stay on that for a bit, but the 5000ius shots maye have done some damage. Lets hope its reversable.

Stay away from Proviron during PCT in your case.

thanks man!how long should i stay on Hcg?and in what doses EOD?

[alpenguy]

you out there Swifto?

[crazy_rocks]

so when hcg raises estrogen is that just for steroid users or is that a risk anyone may face?

[baseline_9]

BUMP

Sticky!

[Hbaz2k]

Sorry if this has already been answered and I may sound stupid but I can not find the answer and want to make sure as I am planning on running a cycle with HCG, is HCG injected into muscle? Also can HCG be mixed in the same syringe as other steroids? I understand it has to be pre mixed and then refrigerated first.

[Swifto]

Bump.