Atomini's all-you-need-to-know about TREN and how to use it effectively thread!

[emp]

sry about spam...

what about letrozole, instead of caber? heck, even without arimidex and caber? since letro is an AI, and ive heard it also helps on prolactine(cant seem to find the source atm..). and on the profile section, it states that it can even remove gyno(yey for me, right!?). im gonna try to get caber, but the price online to 180$ for 8mg is stiff.

any thoughts on letro instead of caber and ari? or would u go for ari and caber instead?

im just wondering what i can get out of my docter...prob wont get both caber and letro(which i feel would be better than arimidex..).

[mockery]

also i might come off trt for lab work, wich will suck if i crash , but its necessary. ill be only running nova for pct, screw clomid.WHat do you know about running stane through pct with nova, kinda a older bill Roberts thing but do you have any knowledge or opinion on keeping the aromasin on during pct? if so still just 10mg a day?

[Atomini]

sry about spam...

what about letrozole, instead of caber? heck, even without arimidex and caber? since letro is an AI, and ive heard it also helps on prolactine(cant seem to find the source atm..). and on the profile section, it states that it can even remove gyno(yey for me, right!?). im gonna try to get caber, but the price online to 180$ for 8mg is stiff.

any thoughts on letro instead of caber and ari? or would u go for ari and caber instead?

im just wondering what i can get out of my docter...prob wont get both caber and letro(which i feel would be better than arimidex..).

Letrozole is overkill for trying to control Prolactin OR Estrogen. Just get yourself a Prolactin antagonist, why are you making things more complicated and harder for yourself? If you need to use an AI, use Aromasin (Exemestane), it's better than Letrozole and Arimidex. Letrozole should be saved only for the worst Estrogen cases (such as gyno).

with tren and cialis , my heart rate is pretty high, blood pressure is in check thou. if i wanted to try clen with my upcoming tren cycle, is it a bit of a worry or warning sign if i have a already fast heart rate on tren?

If you've got heart rate issues as it is, you just answered your own question. Do not throw Clenbuterol in on top of that, you're asking for trouble. Your ticker can only take so much.

thanks.

also i might come off trt for lab work, wich will suck if i crash , but its necessary. ill be only running nova for pct, screw clomid.WHat do you know about running stane through pct with nova, kinda a older bill Roberts thing but do you have any knowledge or opinion on keeping the aromasin on during pct? if so still just 10mg a day?

Aromasin is one of the most perfect additions to PCT, especially if combined with Nolvadex.

[mockery]

with tren and cialis , my heart rate is pretty high, blood pressure is in check thou. if i wanted to try clen with my upcoming tren cycle, is it a bit of a worry or warning sign if i have a already fast heart rate on tren?

thanks.

[Perseverance1]

with tren and cialis , my heart rate is pretty high, blood pressure is in check thou. if i wanted to try clen with my upcoming tren cycle, is it a bit of a worry or warning sign if i have a already fast heart rate on tren?

thanks.

Could you give us a number range, rather than "pretty high"....that's kind of a relative term...could mean 80bpm or could mean 110bpm.

[emp]

it comes down to what i can get my hands on. ari instead of aro. but im def getting a prolactin antagonist, just hoping its from my doctor, and not from an online page...the price, as i mentioned, is quite stiff for a student...

i was just running it by u, to get an opinion, cause i think it will be easier to get a hold of letro, than caber or any other prolac. agon.

thx

[Atomini]

I was going to say, see your doctor first before getting to the point where you have to resort to black market products or whatever. If you can get it from your doctor, why bother worrying about all these other things when you don't need to?

[emp]

yeah...im that kinda guy, i guess. ill see my doc on monday and hopefully get him do prescribe non-harmfull pills.

u have any comment on the PCT question? when to start it. and why its recommended to start the PCT with over 100mg of tren in my system?

i used the calc, and it said i will have about 90mg of tren, two weeks after my last injection. so im thinking ill wait two weeks with my PCT, and use test P for four more days than i will use tren(two injections).

thx

[Mttjns]

Anyone in the states (NJ) area know of any places to get legit deca?

[TheClinch]

Anyone in the states (NJ) area know of any places to get legit deca?

This forum is not a place to find sources... please take the time to read the forum rules.

Thanks

Welcome to Steroid.com too~

[Atomini]

God, you have to be kidding me....

[Atomini]

The idea is to have the body's endogenous production of Testosterone already bump-started and going during the tail end of the cycle. You do not want gaps between the cycle and PCT where the body will have a complete lack of hormones to do its job, as the idea here is a transition that is as smooth and seamless as possible. And I would not use these weird calculators. Just start PCT about 5 days after your last shot if using acetate and propionate, or 2 weeks (approximately 14 days) if having used enanthate/cypionate.

[oatmeal69]

Atomini, Don't know if you saw it but could you comment on post #733? Specifically:
For PCT should I ramp Aromacin dosage up for the first two weeks? I.E. 25mG/ED? Or, the same throughout PCT - like 25mG/ED?
Should I even be doing a larger dose than during my cycle (12.5mG/EOD)?

[Atomini]

For PCT, you want maximal stimulation of endogenous Testosterone production, so for the first 2 weeks do 25mg per day of Aromasin. Halt it after 2 weeks. It is very dangerous on the body's subsystems to continue with eliminated Estrogen levels longer than a 1 - 2 week period. Do not lower the dose, just stop it after 2 weeks and continue a SERM for the remaining 2 weeks afterwards.

[oatmeal69]

Ok, cool. We don't think 12.5mG EOD Aromasin while on cycle is too much / too little, right? I'm assuming not because the recommended dose for "intended" therapy is 4X this amount. The idea being to regulate, not eliminate Estrogen...

[Atomini]

Ok, cool. We don't think 12.5mG EOD Aromasin while on cycle is too much / too little, right? I'm assuming not because the recommended dose for "intended" therapy is 4X this amount. The idea being to regulate, not eliminate Estrogen...

Precisely. 12.5mg EOD tends to be 'okay' for most people for the purpose of Estrogen control on cycle.

[Atomini]

IF and only IF you can get to a low enough bodyfat %, Masteron can really bring out muscle definition and 'hardness' (I hate using that term because it really means nothing) even more. Essentially, for the competitive bodybuilder, Masteron really only provides an enhanced aesthetic capability. Some say it assists in burning fat due to its androgenic capability, some say that it gives that extra aggression and drive in the gym for the same reason. But both of those can be achieved at far greater degrees with something like Trenbolone or Anavar. Masteron is good for 3 things:

1. As a half-decent aromatase inhibitor, given moderate doses of aromatizable AAS in the same stack
2. Binding to SHBG in order to allow other AAS in the same stack to be more 'free' to do their job in binding to receptors in muscle cells (this is actually a VERY good role for Masteron as a supportive compound, but there are plenty of other AAS that do the same thing)
3. Aesthetic enhancing effect for those who are hitting very low bodyfat %. It brings out more vascularity, more definition, and a better '3D' look to the muscles. This is really of very little value for the average AAS user in the gym and only really benefits those who are competing.

[RyanGreg]

IF and only IF you can get to a low enough bodyfat %, Masteron can really bring out muscle definition and 'hardness' (I hate using that term because it really means nothing) even more. Essentially, for the competitive bodybuilder, Masteron really only provides an enhanced aesthetic capability. Some say it assists in burning fat due to its androgenic capability, some say that it gives that extra aggression and drive in the gym for the same reason. But both of those can be achieved at far greater degrees with something like Trenbolone or Anavar. Masteron is good for 3 things:

1. As a half-decent aromatase inhibitor, given moderate doses of aromatizable AAS in the same stack
2. Binding to SHBG in order to allow other AAS in the same stack to be more 'free' to do their job in binding to receptors in muscle cells (this is actually a VERY good role for Masteron as a supportive compound, but there are plenty of other AAS that do the same thing)
3. Aesthetic enhancing effect for those who are hitting very low bodyfat %. It brings out more vascularity, more definition, and a better '3D' look to the muscles. This is really of very little value for the average AAS user in the gym and only really benefits those who are competing.

thanks for the reply... so you wouldn't recommend adding mast to my test and tren cycle then for bulking purposes? I used test/tren/mast/winny recently for a cut.

maybe i would be better off with test tren and var?

but i just always thought tren and mast go together like peanut butter and jelly.

[Back In Black]

Atomini, you might wanna check Ryan's thread history before you spend/waste any more time on this troll..

[Atomini]

Hm, never would've known...

I'm just trying to help people out by answering their questions!

[Liftheavy6]

Great read, thanks man.

[Bigd128]

Hello I have read your post. It's an amazing informative post. Thank you!!!! I registered on this forum just to follow your knowledge and ask you some questions. I'm about to run my first tren cycle. After reading your post I have come up with this cycle.
Test p 100mg/wk
Tren a 400mg/wk
Caber 1mg/wk
Nolva on hand

Wanted to what you think of this cycle. Everyone I have talked to says test at 100mg a week is bs. But is 100mg a week enough? Thanks for the help man means alot.

[Atomini]

Hello I have read your post. It's an amazing informative post. Thank you!!!! I registered on this forum just to follow your knowledge and ask you some questions. I'm about to run my first tren cycle. After reading your post I have come up with this cycle.
Test p 100mg/wk
Tren a 400mg/wk
Caber 1mg/wk
Nolva on hand

Wanted to what you think of this cycle. Everyone I have talked to says test at 100mg a week is bs. But is 100mg a week enough? Thanks for the help man means alot.

It depends on what your definition of what "enough" is.

I have through my article here on Trenbolone outlined the concept of using 100mg weekly of Testosterone. So much so, in fact, that I am not going to repeat it over and over. The idea is that Testosterone takes a back seat role as a supportive compound meant for the purpose of maintaining normal physiological levels of Testosterone during a period in which endogenous Testosterone production is either shut down or suppressed. TRT doses of Testosterone are not designed to provide gains - that is something reserved for the primary anabolic compound, which in this case is Trenbolone.

If your goal is to make gains with Testosterone, then no, 100mg weekly of Testosterone is not "enough". What is "enough" here is vastly relative to the individual, and what they want.

Your cycle is solid.

[Bigd128]

It depends on what your definition of what "enough" is.

I have through my article here on Trenbolone outlined the concept of using 100mg weekly of Testosterone. So much so, in fact, that I am not going to repeat it over and over. The idea is that Testosterone takes a back seat role as a supportive compound meant for the purpose of maintaining normal physiological levels of Testosterone during a period in which endogenous Testosterone production is either shut down or suppressed. TRT doses of Testosterone are not designed to provide gains - that is something reserved for the primary anabolic compound, which in this case is Trenbolone.

If your goal is to make gains with Testosterone, then no, 100mg weekly of Testosterone is not "enough". What is "enough" here is vastly relative to the individual, and what they want.

Your cycle is solid.

Thanks man for your help all these stupid dudes telling 100mg isn't enough to function off of. When in researching, studies say a healthy average male produces about 7-10 mgs daily so that's 49-70 mgs a week of natural test. 100mg is plenty to replenish the test you lost. Thanks again atomini your thread has helped a ton!!!!

[Papa Smurf]

Atomini my bother!! I love your Tren thread, but I think its become a selfhelp thread for trolls..................

[Atomini]

Atomini my bother!! I love your Tren thread, but I think its become a selfhelp thread for trolls..................

Yeah i've lately been starting to think the same thing...

[oatmeal69]

Is it possible for a mod to edit it down to only the posts that are informative, or request / add new information? I hate it when an otherwise awesome thread such as this becomes deluged with mostly useless or repeated stuff.

[Atomini]

Pick one or the other, either cut or bulk. Don't pick both, you'll just be spinning your wheels trying to do something that you won't get 100% accomplished progress on. I've tried it and it doesn't work.

If dropping body fat is the priority for you, then focus on cutting. Simple as that.

[Jstock1988]

Pick one or the other, either cut or bulk. Don't pick both, you'll just be spinning your wheels trying to do something that you won't get 100% accomplished progress on. I've tried it and it doesn't work.

If dropping body fat is the priority for you, then focus on cutting. Simple as that.

Ok thanks for the advice.. But for the most part is my cycle solid? And since I'm cutting how many calories should I be consuming?

[oatmeal69]

Post your diet, stats and goals over in the Nutrition forum. I think most if not all of your cutting goals should be accomplished first via diet and exercise, not with AAS.

[Atomini]

Yes the cycle is good, BUT remove the Aromasin, there is no need for it when using 100mg/week of Testosterone. All you are going to do is reduce Estrogen down to sub-physiological levels and that will give you problems, and possibly hinder your gains. Just keep it on hand.

And oatmeal69 is right, take your nutrition questions to the Nutrition section of the forum, you will get better answers there. This is also a Trenbolone thread, I don't want it getting cluttered with diet and nutrition questions.

[oatmeal69]

Guess I'm still not understanding some of the finer points RE: Aromasin... Maybe I need to re-read.
Does this look good?

140mg Test-E / Wk. (20/mg per injection, ed) - 11 wks.
350mg Tren-A / wk. (50/mg per injection, ed) - 10 wks.

Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD (25mg/ED if gyno symptoms appear)
_ Optional/On hand -
Tamoxifen 40mg/ED -IF- needed for treatment of gyno symptoms.

- P.C.T. -
2 weeks after last injection
Aromasin 25mg/25mg, ED - 2 weeks only
Tamoxifen 40mg/40mg ED then 20mg/20mg/20mg/20mg ED

[Atomini]

Aromasin is not required if using Testosterone at 100mg weekly, because at that Testosterone dose, the body will not be aromatizing enough of it into problematic levels of Estrogen. It is only when levels extend into the supraphysiological range does the body begin to increase its aromatization, and that is when you will require an AI. If you throw an AI into a cycle where TRT doses of Testosterone are used, you are going to reduce your Estrogen levels to abnormally low levels.

For PCT, Aromasin is fine to use at a full daily dose, but no longer than 2 weeks at such a dosing frequency.

[oatmeal69]

Awesome. I love how simple my cycle has become. Thanks again!

[Peer]

back to Tren!

Ok, Atomini, first off, great thread! I am on week 15 of tren ace 100 and test prop 100 qd
Gains are not plateauing, actually feel better every week. I am reticent to shut down the tren and go back to the baseline TRT I was on before.
So my question is how long have you blasted on tren? I am a doc and have all the AIs and PRL antagonists on hand and (cialis 5mg bid) and have only needed the AI as E2 levels are closely managed and AI dosed accordingly. Have been at a nice steady state for the past month and basically am looking for reassurance that I am not being a complete idiot taking a cycle out to 20 wks. The diminishing returns have not started yet which is why I pose this question.

Full disclosure this is only 2nd cycle, first test only. 43 years old, lifting since childhood (really, Joe Weider bench in basement filled with sand), former NCAA Wrestler which accounts for the brain damage, Have been using TRT in my patients for years and unlike most docs are aware and prepared for adverse reactions/andro or prolactin side effects.

[Atomini]

back to Tren!

Ok, Atomini, first off, great thread! I am on week 15 of tren ace 100 and test prop 100 qd
Gains are not plateauing, actually feel better every week. I am reticent to shut down the tren and go back to the baseline TRT I was on before.
So my question is how long have you blasted on tren? I am a doc and have all the AIs and PRL antagonists on hand and (cialis 5mg bid) and have only needed the AI as E2 levels are closely managed and AI dosed accordingly. Have been at a nice steady state for the past month and basically am looking for reassurance that I am not being a complete idiot taking a cycle out to 20 wks. The diminishing returns have not started yet which is why I pose this question.

Full disclosure this is only 2nd cycle, first test only. 43 years old, lifting since childhood (really, Joe Weider bench in basement filled with sand), former NCAA Wrestler which accounts for the brain damage, Have been using TRT in my patients for years and unlike most docs are aware and prepared for adverse reactions/andro or prolactin side effects.

Hey Peer,

The longest I have ever run a cycle of Trenbolone was 12 weeks. I personally don't even like to push it past 8 - 10 weeks, but I did do 12 weeks once with no ill effects and no reduction or plateauing in gains. However, no signs of plateauing gains or ill effects shouldn't be the only reason to stop a Trenbolone cycle at 12 weeks. I personally would never run 20 weeks due to the internal effects on the body's subsystems over time (cholesterol values, effects on cardiac tissue, constant arterial pressure, and (especially in Trenbolone's case) vascular reactivity. As a doctor, these things should be a no-brainer to you. Running a compound as harsh as Trenbolone for 20 weeks is risking all of these effects becoming worse. It is probably the biggest reason why I advise Trenbolone cycles to run no greater than 8 - 10 weeks in length. People seem to just focus on asking themselves these two questions:

1. Are my gains plateauing?
2. Am I experiencing any NOTICEABLE side effects?

And if the answer is no to both, they assume everything is A-OK to continue running Trenbolone at dangerous cycle lengths. These are not the only two things to be concerned about when running Trenbolone for ANY lengths. Just because someone isn't physically or visually noticing 'side effects', doesn't mean there are negative alterations and changes occurring within the body. Trenbolone is notorious for doing things like that which are unnoticeable, and it does it at a far greater degree than any other anabolic steroid.

[Lunk1]

Hey Peer,

The longest I have ever run a cycle of Trenbolone was 12 weeks. I personally don't even like to push it past 8 - 10 weeks, but I did do 12 weeks once with no ill effects and no reduction or plateauing in gains. However, no signs of plateauing gains or ill effects shouldn't be the only reason to stop a Trenbolone cycle at 12 weeks. I personally would never run 20 weeks due to the internal effects on the body's subsystems over time (cholesterol values, effects on cardiac tissue, constant arterial pressure, and (especially in Trenbolone's case) vascular reactivity. As a doctor, these things should be a no-brainer to you. Running a compound as harsh as Trenbolone for 20 weeks is risking all of these effects becoming worse. It is probably the biggest reason why I advise Trenbolone cycles to run no greater than 8 - 10 weeks in length. People seem to just focus on asking themselves these two questions:

1. Are my gains plateauing?
2. Am I experiencing any NOTICEABLE side effects?

And if the answer is no to both, they assume everything is A-OK to continue running Trenbolone at dangerous cycle lengths. These are not the only two things to be concerned about when running Trenbolone for ANY lengths. Just because someone isn't physically or visually noticing 'side effects', doesn't mean there are negative alterations and changes occurring within the body. Trenbolone is notorious for doing things like that which are unnoticeable, and it does it at a far greater degree than any other anabolic steroid.

Ran my last Tren E cycle 22 weeks! It was a waste past 14-16 weeks! never again!!!!!!!!

[Atomini]

Ran my last Tren E cycle 22 weeks! It was a waste past 14-16 weeks! never again!!!!!!!!

Yeah I couldn't see myself ever going that long on Trenbolone (or any AAS, really) even if I was on TRT and didn't have to worry about HPTA recovery. I have considered attempting one of those long-term long estered Testosterone cycles in the past but it just isn't worth it. I'd never even consider it with Tren, it's just crazy.

[Peer]

Atomini,
Thanks for the considered feedback, I will take your advice and revert to TRT dosing. Your work on this tread is much appreciated! It think I need to do more digging for studies on the effects of various AAS's on systemic vascular resistance, my assumption was that AAS's hypertensive potential is primarily caused intravascular volume expansion through erythroid line stimulation and secondarily by aldosterone-like sodium retention.

[Atomini]

You are correct, but you also have to remember that analogues and derivatives of hormones behave in a different aspect all in their own right. Once the hormone is modified, it now becomes a new anabolic steroid that, although expresses similar properties passed down from its progenitor hormone, it now expresses new unique properties all in itself. There is increasing amounts of evidence and research out there to show that Trenbolone expresses a greater degree of vascular reactivity than other anabolic steroids. Although it hasn't been demonstrated in humans since Trenbolone cannot be studied in human subjects, it is still something of concern. I will try and dig up the clinical data some time soon.