deca gyno

[CYCLEON]

ok, Gents I hate to come in here but YOU do realize that progesterone does not "aromatize". Aromatase is an enzyme required for the conversion of androgens (test) to estrogens. Progesterone operates via a whole different pathway and is effected by the level of Test to DHT conversion. Mike Im sure you know that.

Second - for all this fine talk, does anyone have any idea what the correct dosage for RU-486 is if you did get your hands on it? I do and can say that it does work as I know several people who use it regularly.

As to studies of combatting proge titties, they are unlikely to exist - however it is simple logic to understand that if progesterone receptors are blocked, then there will be no buildup.

[Mike]

Cycleon -

As for progesterone "aromatizing" You are absolutely right - it doesn't - thats what the point of the post was. I was trying to explain why using an anti-aromatase wouldn't work against prog because as you said the mechanism of action is NOT related to the process of progesterone conversion

And you are also right about the studies - progesterone is a hormone foreign to male bodies - shouldnt be there. It's made naturally ONLY in the ovaries - and in any clinical use of drugs that convert to progesterone - there are NO uses that dictate doses high enough to create unhealthy gyno inducing amounts of progesterone in males so there would be no studies on the treatment of male progesterone induced gyno

[The Iron Game]

"A conversion into estrogen, that means an aromatizing process"

a conversion is not the same thing as aromatising, some steroids convert but do not aromatise.

Mike as usual passed this with flying colors and I look forward to learning more apart from winny being of use which I disagree on

[bmfgsxr]

"A conversion into estrogen, that means an aromatizing process"

a conversion is not the same thing as aromatising, some steroids convert but do not aromatise.

Mike as usual passed this with flying colors and I look forward to learning more apart from winny being of use which I disagree on

couple questions here. so what would you need to keep the deca from converting into progesteron since it doesnt belong in our bodies anyway. also, when taking winny with deca, does it hinder the effect on deca helping the joints? thanks

[bmfgsxr]

couple questions here. so what would you need to keep the deca from converting into progesteron since it doesnt belong in our bodies anyway. also, when taking winny with deca, does it hinder the effect on deca helping the joints? thanks

nevermind, the ru486 will help the deca induced gyno. and winny will counteract the effects on the joints deca has.

[grim911]

hey guys im new to this hole steroids thing. im not worried reall r lt im worried about gyno and i have read every thing writen in here out it but dont really understand one thing. my freind is etting me Dbol and i was wondering since im if that was only steriod i was to use. how much would i need to gain a decent amount of mussle mass such as 100 mg a day for four weeks. and if i did do that what are my chances of getting gyno any adivce woud help. I am curently seventeen weigh about one sixty and want to get to about 180 i am only playing on doing one cycle to help me gain mussle mass and then go off of it for a long time. so what would u suggest doing to bulk up massivly and not get gyno plzs help and try 2 dumb it down a bit so i kno what ur saying

[primodonna]

Originally posted by Mike
You guys dissapoint me........you pick the hell outta my brain and when i give ya what you want to leave me! My goodness - you're just like women - all of ya!

Hey...I haven't left you...then again, you haven't given me what I want yet either

Good info btw.

[flexshack]

just wondering if once you stop taking the ru-486, will all the built up progesterone in the body cause gyno? or does ru-486 prevent the buildup too? thanks
flex

[Mike]

Primo -

I am very sorry - been busy as hell - I can promise you an email by tomorrow - sound good? Again I do apologize.

IG -

I am not too sure what my stance is on winny w/ progesterone. I believe that in theory it has some properties that aid in the prevention of progesterone binding so it may be of some use - but I think these properties are grossly overstated and that using winny is not that effective in preventing gyno from progesterone if you are prone to it. Like I said though - that is based on theory. I do plan on researching more to see if I can't find real information to back this up one way or another - I am very curious as to what the final answer is on this one. I would like to know.

Cycleon -

I can honestly say I don't know the dosing for RU-486 - so you have me there. I have never had to use it myself and actually have never had gyno from deca. So it's your turn to enlighten us.

[primodonna]

Mike- i swear i wasn't even referring to that e-mail. I know you and everyone else on here are busy and don't spend 24hrs a day on their computer. I always figure any help is just an added bonus and i NEVER expect it from anyone.

[Mike]

oh

Well I will email you back tomorrow anyway - and what WERE you referring to then? Hmmm what's primo want???

[CYCLEON]

well, to answer quickly - mifepristone (ru486) blocks the progesterone receptors so progesterone cant bind to them. this keeps prog from triggering the progestin DNA synthesis process with works in conjunction with estrogen to cause titties. since the half life of progesterone in only 5mins it is unlikely that there would be any rebound effect of "free" prog after ceasing mifepristone treatment.

dose for men would be 200mg (1 EU pill) ETD or 60-70mg (3 china pills) ED. more than that seems to begin to cause too much of a reduction in cortisol - causing dry joints, similar to large winny doses

[The Iron Game]

Originally posted by Mike
IG -

I am not too sure what my stance is on winny w/ progesterone. I believe that in theory it has some properties that aid in the prevention of progesterone binding so it may be of some use - but I think these properties are grossly overstated and that using winny is not that effective in preventing gyno from progesterone if you are prone to it. Like I said though - that is based on theory.

Exactly my point Sir, theory is theory and will always remain as theory and I do not personally believe winny will prevent gyno from deca. If you are going to get it you are going to get it and it is much harder to combat than estrogen related sides.

[Mike]

IG -

Agreed.

Cycleon -

Thank you.

[flexshack]

hey great thread guys! just wanted to know how common deca gyno is? are most people sensitive to progesterone and the gyno it brings? i am going to take deca 400mg/week and was worried how good the odds were of being sensitive. any statistical estimates would be great. thanks.
flex

[brutis]

I just wanted to thank everyone who posted on my topic of "Deca Gyno". I got alot of useful info which I did not know before which helped to clear up the little confusion I was having. If anyone has any or finds any articles on winny helping to reduce progesterone related gyno please post because this topic still interests me, and i'd like to learn more about it.

Thanks for all the help
Peace
Brutis

[Mike]

Flex - I can almost promis you that at 400mgs of deca you wont have gyno problems as it takes a good amount of deca to convert enough progesterone to cause gyno

Brutis - I am glad you got your question MORE than answered I am looking into the winny subject right now - I am not big on opinion based information and right now I dont believe anyone (including myself) has anything more than theory to bring to the table on whether or not winny really does prevent progesterone binding - so until I can prove otherwise - the most logical answer is NO winny doesnt help - but I will find out what the real answer is and get back to ya

[Tom]

Mike great job bro my question is where do you think the danger zone starts with deca and if progesterone is not produced in the male body then no male can be prone to it right? if that is the case than it is all in how your body handles it?

[Mike]

Thats a good question - you kinda answered it yourself - as progesterone is naturally foreign to males nobody is prone or predisposed - but on the other hand nobody is invincible to it either - it IS the way your body handles it - so that answers the next one too about the danger zone - a dose for me may do nothing - and that same dose may give you gyno in a couple weeks - really is an issue with internal hormonal make up of the user - I would say as a benchmark though that deca is MOST LIKELY not going to cause gyno in a cycle at 500mg for 10wks or anything lighter than that - I have never met anyone that got gyno in the traditional 400/wk 8wk cycle - you always kill deca earlier than your test anyway. But nothing here is concrete - I cannot stress enough that prog being foreign to us there is no telling how one person will react to the next.

Does that answer anything or make it more confusing?

[Tom]

kool that answers my question the only other thing I was wondering where does the progesterone come from in DECA and in the medical field what would it be used for? is it meant for women to use instead of men?

[Mike]

Progesterone is not IN the deca - but when the deca is entered into the male body it converts into progesterone (the hormone) this hormone IS produced naturally but NOT by men - it is produced in the ovaries of women

[The Iron Game]

did you also know hcg increases progesterone levels in women it is unlikely that it will have the same effect in males BUT if we do not have natural progesterone then there is nothing to say it is not a possibility that it can happen. tick tock tick tock

[Mike]

Very good point - supports my general distaste for the use of HCG

[Gizmo]

Hey Mike, some time ago my body was producing HCG(i'm male), because of a disease, and i got sensitive nipples.
Could this mean deca would be dangerous for me?

Giz

[The Iron Game]

im not Mike but No, the gyno was probably from the rapid rate of estrogen conversion from the hcg.

[Mike]

Iron Game is right - that's a whole nother story - getting gyno from deca is a different process entirely

[Gizmo]

Thanks guys

[G-PIG]

guys, this poor kid wondering if hes gonna get man boobs from deca has been caught between a jucie knowledge pissing contest not knocking you guys, your are all huge helps to guys like this one and myself, i just thought it was funny, maybe we could start a virtual arm wrestling forum for you dudes !!

[Mike]

A pissing contest? Is that what this was about? hmm......

[CYCLEON]

I win then

[Tom]

what is hcg

[Tom]

never mind I looked it up

[Gizmo]

LOL..wtf..poor kid..pissing contest?
You wanna take it outside G-pig?

It just made me wonder because i always thought Nolvadex would prevent gyno from deca because i thought the gyno occured from the little test that is aromatized that your body still makes



READ THIS
"
Nandrolone complexes contain no testosterone or tes. esters. Therefore they cannot be aromatized into estradiol. It is the actual testosterone in the male that is aromatized into estradiol. Common anabolic compounds either suppress the natural production of testosterone or cause an increase in natural tes. production. Methandrostenolone, for example, has been shown to increase the available natural tes. by up to five times in clinical studies, setting off massive chemical responses of aromitization. Nandrolones on the other hand have been shown to disrupt the production of tes. but stimulate the receptors to the point that what little tes. was produced was aromatized immediately into estradiol"

So when i heard progesteron could be the culprit and HCG could MAYBE raise progesteron levels, i figured i'd ask

Giz

[xenithon]

hi there guys,

i have read through all the posts here and between all the fighting and scientific jargon it was kinda hard locating a concrete answer due to all the different opinions. my question is:

...what if you do get some gyno from deca eg. sensitive nipples etc. If you catch it early, what CAN you take to help stop it? Besides winny (which many people here still doubt) is there anything else? Will a proviron/nolvadex stack help? Will the pregnancy pill help?? Just wanted to double check in case anything pops up in my cyle

thanks guys!

[xenithon]

one last thing:

If I can get my hands on RU-486, I just wanted to know if there are any negative side-effects?

thanks!

[Black Stang]

Reading this helped me alot since I will useing Deca for the first time very soon, with Sustanon 250. I think alot of people will benefit from this information.

[Mike]

Well jet ski.......when me and your mother love eachother VERY much.......

[hatchblack]

If using a anti-aromatase such as blocks the conversion of androgen to estrogen, is more abundant androgen then available and is it helpful in muscle growth. Therefore, would the use of an anti-estrogen be beneficial throughout the entirity of the cylce or should it just be used in the case of the developement of gyno

[Big Al]

Anti-e when gyno occurs, aromitise inhibitor from start of cycle to finish of clomid.

[hatchblack]

so should you be using both arimidex/liquidex and nolvadex in cycle. I am pretty sure that I would be gyno sensitive so I will make sure to have both, or at least arimidex or liquidex available.

what is an example of an anti-e and an anti-aromatase?