Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

[Prime]

Markus you say this isnt something for a first time gear user but in you're post you also say alot of younger guys would benefit from these kind of cycles over long drawn out ones.

So where do you think you need ot be before you can attempt something like this? one cycle? 2,3,4?

[IBdmfkr]

Markus you say this isnt something for a first time gear user but in you're post you also say alot of younger guys would benefit from these kind of cycles over long drawn out ones.

So where do you think you need ot be before you can attempt something like this? one cycle? 2,3,4?

I can't speak for marcus but I think if you have experienced many different compounds and know how your body reacts to each then you might be ready. Also diet, training and physique must be up to par, remember him saying to prime the body you must almost go on a contest diet, well if you aren't in close to contest shape I don't see how you are ready for these cycles. JMO.

[Pinnacle]

. Also diet, training and physique must be up to par, remember him saying to prime the body you must almost go on a contest diet, well if you aren't in close to contest shape I don't see how you are ready for these cycles. JMO.

No..I think you've misunderstood the concept.

Has nothing to do with being in contest condition.You basically diet down on a contest-like diet..sort of depleting yourself.After about 6-8 weeks of doing so,your body is ready to absorb all the nutrients you throw at it.You are looking to take advantage of the rebound effect from extreme dieting,plus you are adding extremely high amounts of anabolics in the mix.That equates to growth,and it comes on quickly...been there,done that

[Prime]

I can't speak for marcus but I think if you have experienced many different compounds and know how your body reacts to each then you might be ready. Also diet, training and physique must be up to par, remember him saying to prime the body you must almost go on a contest diet, well if you aren't in close to contest shape I don't see how you are ready for these cycles. JMO.

That makes no sense to me. You are depleted and not at you're strongest when on a contest diet.
My interpretation of what Markus had said toward priming yourself was to create a naturally anabolic environment before hitting the cycle, so you hit the ground running.
To have a good diet providing all the nutrients and calories you need for growth while having already entered into a training programme so you wont need 3 weeks to work into things and work up to full strength etc, so when the cycle starts you hit the ground running. 30 days of full bore going for it.

What you are suggesting sounds a little different. I know from experience that after cutting my body has no desire to grow it just wants to recover from being in a calorie deficient state and wants to return to homeostasis. But then thats just me.

[marcus300]

That makes no sense to me. You are depleted and not at you're strongest when on a contest diet.
My interpretation of what Markus had said toward priming yourself was to create a naturally anabolic environment before hitting the cycle, so you hit the ground running.
To have a good diet providing all the nutrients and calories you need for growth while having already entered into a training programme so you wont need 3 weeks to work into things and work up to full strength etc, so when the cycle starts you hit the ground running. 30 days of full bore going for it.

What you are suggesting sounds a little different. I know from experience that after cutting my body has no desire to grow it just wants to recover from being in a calorie deficient state and wants to return to homeostasis. But then thats just me.

primming the body before a short heavy cycle is one of the most important thing you can do especailly with this theory, you diet down and lose fat, just like a comp diet or ive also found better way of priming by cycling the carbs 3 low 1 high this will create a very anabolic emviroment for muscle tissue to grow, the muscle receptors get highly excitable and upgrade and able to accept more glucose and because glucose levels are not full in the muscle the result is more deposited into the muscle instead of fat cells which creates an enviroment to build muscle tissue very quickley, if this is done correcty and AAS+GH are combined and timed right when you start this heavy short cycle, growth is amazing,

When you are priming you must increase your protein/aminos to compensate any canabolisum of the muscle tissue, its a fine line as am sure some know! What you do is take advantage of all the rebound effect, this shuttles the nutrients direct to the muscles this coupled with ASS+GH+intense training program+increased amounts of food = hugh muscle tissue gains FACT.

[marcus300]

Markus you say this isnt something for a first time gear user but in you're post you also say alot of younger guys would benefit from these kind of cycles over long drawn out ones.

So where do you think you need ot be before you can attempt something like this? one cycle? 2,3,4?

Thats correct its not for the first time gear user, its for BB's who know their own bodys and how they react to all the different compounds, they need to have a good few years of training under their belts and know how they respond to certain diets,

Younger BB's can benefit from this, because when they are advanced enough they can try these cycles out and they will realise that they dont really need to do long cycles which in turn will really benefit them, ie- no bridging/coasting/ hrt sooner than they should/ no increased dosages with every cycle/ easier recovery/ easier maintenace.

[novicenovicen]

I understand that. My question is concerning EQ. 1: can it be used on this short super cycle....(because supposedly you need to run it for 14 weeks to see true effects)
2: if it can't be run like this, what would be a sample program that it could be run?

[Pinnacle]

I understand that. My question is concerning EQ. 1: can it be used on this short super cycle....(because supposedly you need to run it for 14 weeks to see true effects)
2: if it can't be run like this, what would be a sample program that it could be run?

It can be ran on short cycles like what is being discussed in this thread,BUT the doses have to be extremely high.

No one is going to help you with doses..stop fishing..and judging by the questions you've been asking lately,this is wayyyy out of your league.

[novicenovicen]

Thanks for the input pinn. If I came across as fishing, that wasn't my intention my intention is to learn. I was curious. I have enough EQ sitting here to go a year straight on 600 mg a week. I was wanting to do a 14 week cycle with just test and drol to kick start. I by no means am ready to do these super cycles, and as I already posted am not wanting the dosages, as it is to early for me. I continue to make gains on low dosages and haven't plateued yet. Just was curious about a sample EQ run ( such as 14 weeks 600 mg or 18 weeks 400 mg or 10 weeks 100mg). Just wanting advice from some of the few people on here who probably know.

[IBdmfkr]

Thanks for the input pinn. If I came across as fishing, that wasn't my intention my intention is to learn. I was curious. I have enough EQ sitting here to go a year straight on 600 mg a week. I was wanting to do a 14 week cycle with just test and drol to kick start. I by no means am ready to do these super cycles, and as I already posted am not wanting the dosages, as it is to early for me. I continue to make gains on low dosages and haven't plateued yet. Just was curious about a sample EQ run ( such as 14 weeks 600 mg or 18 weeks 400 mg or 10 weeks 100mg). Just wanting advice from some of the few people on here who probably know.

Seems you are asking advice about how to run Eq on a longer based cycle, This particular thread is about short-burst cycles. Not sure how your question applies? Post up in a new thread and we'll help setup your next cycle, remember to include stats like age, height, weigth, cycle history etc... Best of luck.

[novicenovicen]

Thanks for the input pinn. If I came across as fishing, that wasn't my intention my intention is to learn. I was curious. I have enough EQ sitting here to go a year straight on 600 mg a week. I was wanting to do a 14 week cycle with just test and drol to kick start. I by no means am ready to do these super cycles, and as I already posted am not wanting the dosages, as it is to early for me. I continue to make gains on low dosages and haven't plateued yet. Just was curious about a sample EQ run ( such as 14 weeks 600 mg or 18 weeks 400 mg or 10 weeks 100mg). Just wanting advice from some of the few people on here who probably know.

[PaulieM.]

from what i've read about these cycles is that you run high dose juice, slin, and growth for about 3-4 weeks and then keep running low dose test and another mild anabolic for about 6 more weeks. i've thought about trying something like this, and i stay at around a gram a weeks usually, but i'll probably do this next off-season.

1ml of sauce ed
1ml primobolan ed
200mg tri-tren eod
8-12i.u.'s of growth 5on/2off
10-15i.u. of slin pw
after doing this for 30days i'll just run 500mg enanthate and 200primo for 6 weeks or so.

[marcus300]

from what i've read about these cycles is that you run high dose juice, slin, and growth for about 3-4 weeks and then keep running low dose test and another mild anabolic for about 6 more weeks. i've thought about trying something like this, and i stay at around a gram a weeks usually, but i'll probably do this next off-season.

1ml of sauce ed
1ml primobolan ed
200mg tri-tren eod
8-12i.u.'s of growth 5on/2off
10-15i.u. of slin pw
after doing this for 30days i'll just run 500mg enanthate and 200primo for 6 weeks or so.

What you are talking about in the above is not what ive been saying, i would read the whole thread, ive tried to make it as clear as possible, doing 3-4 weeks high dose cycle then follow that with 6 more weeks is 9-10 week cycle, This is not what ive been trying to explain, the whole idea is to create an enviroment in which muscle tissue will grow at a fast rate (priming) then hit your system hard for around 30 days, come totaly off recover and maintain and plan for the following cycles and preper your body again with priming.

usualy the following cycle would be just a maintenance cycle or cutter which would involve very mild dose something like what you would use for the 6 weeks following the above cycle,but NOT straight after the heavy dose cycle, all the above is a 9-10 wk cycle starting off heavy, also the dose is wrong.

There are a few people who would do a low dose bridge but these people are very advanced and have to do this to compete at the level they are at, or because they are on HRT earlier than they should be because of the long term use of AAS, these peoples cycles are worked out differently because they have to take in consideration the HRT dose to work out the dose for the short heavy cycle.

Please re- read the whole thread it does try to explain it

Marcus

[guns626]

Great read, Thanks!

[ktw]

http://anabolicextreme.com/anabolic/...zinterview.htm

Not to dismiss your theory behind short cycling, I plan on trying it (but not in insane doses, more along the moderate lines illustrated in the other post can't remember the users name right now), but I would not trust anything related to Paul or his writing based on all of the accounts of him not actually having any real degree whatsoever.

[MotorBoatin' SOB]

great read, im going to have to try it

[MANchild]

very informative thanks...

[fLgAtOr]

Once again, I gained most my weight in the first 4-5 weeks of Prop/Tren. Had to stuggle for the next 6 weeks to even get 5 lbs..

Veerrrry interesting boys...

[TantruM]

im a novice still on first cycle but this interests me... wondering if a guy did this earlyer in his life with maybe 2 or 3 cycles under belt... would it mean if he ever did decide to go back to mid dosage long cycles he would have to use insanely high dosage?

[IBdmfkr]

One of the main reasons why novices to the gym don't need to juice is to keep their bodies in proportion. Everyone has seen the guys who workout for a few months and jump on cycle, don't know jack about correct dieting or training so they tend to favor certain muscle groups making them look retarded. Can you imagine short highdose burst cycle on a novice, not only do they have No clue on how they will respond to a certain drug but your body comp. is shit when you first start, only time and dedication and genetics will determine how your physique will turn out. Not for newbies.

[TantruM]

yeah can see what ya mean but id hope people have commonsense to know how to workout before they start poppin pins... tho i have a friend he bowflexed on and off years ( hahaha) but went to gym and worked out with me two months then made decision that he was gonna juice when i started and there was no stoppin him... so instead of letting him grow boobs shared knowledge iv gained from trollin here a longtime... bastard went from slob to monster over night... neways thats all off topic... anyway think next cycle ima try the short cycle approach i know noone wants to share info on there own dosages but if someone would talk to me over pm and inform me how i could set dosages for my body / goals would be appreciated

wow thats one long run on sentence ow

[loki_is_a_god]

i have been hearing about these short cycles.....running like 500mgs of test e a day for 30 days...would this be a good cycle to try, for my first time....on a short cycle?

[AleX-69]

i have been hearing about these short cycles.....running like 500mgs of test e a day for 30 days...would this be a good cycle to try, for my first time....on a short cycle?

500mg test e a day? WTF? Thats 3.5g a week..

IF you meant 500g a week thats ok, but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity. You would have to frontload the test on cycle day -2 with triple the dose. On cycle day 0 you would use double dose. And from there on you would use 250mg every 4 days.
You should stop the Test e after 14days IMHO as it will take a certain amount of time to get the test out of your system. Instead you should use a fast acting oral like d-bol for the last 14days of the cycle (preferably the whole cycle alongside of test).
After 4weeks you can begin pct.

But as it is your fist cycle i would not advise you to do a short cycle i outlinde above. You don't even know how you react to test (i.e. which side effects you may expirience) and frontloading a compound by triple the dose may make matters even worse. Morover test e isn't really well suited for short cycles.
So of i were you i wouldn't use test e for such a cycle. Alternativly you could do a "cookie cutter" newbie cycle at 500mg test e a week for 12 weeks. OR you could get gear better suited for short cycles and try one of the newbie cycles explained in RG article.

[Xtralarg]

[QUOTE=AleX-69]500mg test e a day? WTF? Thats 3.5g a week..

IF you meant 500g a week thats ok, but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity.





RUBBISH.....This is the problem,people posting absolute BS.

Have you used a long ester in a short cycle?.....Well I have,Test E,in a 30 day cycle for the first 18 days,exactly the time when I gained 14lbs,all of which I have retained.

So please refrain from posting information which is incorrect it is misleading to others.

[AleX-69]

RUBBISH.....This is the problem,people posting absolute BS.

Have you used a long ester in a short cycle?.....Well I have,Test E,in a 30 day cycle for the first 18 days,exactly the time when I gained 14lbs,all of which I have retained.

So please refrain from posting information which is incorrect it is misleading to others.

To get things clear: I NEVER said long esters wouldn't work in a short cylce, did I? It is a fact that they do work, that is why I outlined a sample cycle using a long estered test.
BUT nevertheless i feel it is better to use faster acting aas during a short cycle, especially for a newbie who does not know how he might react to a super high frontload of an longer acting aas (Test E.) Using faster acting aas is just the safer way to go IMHO - at least for unexpierenced users.

I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way...

[marcus300]

To get things clear: I NEVER said long esters wouldn't work in a short cylce, did I? It is a fact that they do work, that is why I outlined a sample cycle using a long estered test.
BUT nevertheless i feel it is better to use faster acting aas during a short cycle, especially for a newbie who does not know how he might react to a super high frontload of an longer acting aas (Test E.) Using faster acting aas is just the safer way to go IMHO - at least for unexpierenced users.

I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way...

A newbie shouldnt be doing this type of cycle, the BB should know how he reacts to all compounds, this type of cycling is not for the unexpierenced.

[Xtralarg]

To get things clear: I NEVER said long esters wouldn't work in a short cylce, did I? It is a fact that they do work, that is why I outlined a sample cycle using a long estered test.
BUT nevertheless i feel it is better to use faster acting aas during a short cycle, especially for a newbie who does not know how he might react to a super high frontload of an longer acting aas (Test E.) Using faster acting aas is just the safer way to go IMHO - at least for unexpierenced users.

I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way...

Yes you did and i quote you
'but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity'

please explain?

You say it is better to use short esters,have you tried both short and long in short cycles?...well I and other i know personlly have and let me tell you the results from long esters are just as good as the ones from short ones so please explain your statement.

I ask you to do so because the are far to many people giving advise who have nothing to back it up with and that is misleading to others who are trying to learn,it should be stopped.If you cant back it up then dont say it.

[Booz]

500mg test e a day? WTF? Thats 3.5g a week..

IF you meant 500g a week thats ok, but test e isn't that usefull in a short cycle due to the esters longlivity. You would have to frontload the test on cycle day -2 with triple the dose. On cycle day 0 you would use double dose. And from there on you would use 250mg every 4 days.
You should stop the Test e after 14days IMHO as it will take a certain amount of time to get the test out of your system. Instead you should use a fast acting oral like d-bol for the last 14days of the cycle (preferably the whole cycle alongside of test).
After 4weeks you can begin pct.

But as it is your fist cycle i would not advise you to do a short cycle i outlinde above. You don't even know how you react to test (i.e. which side effects you may expirience) and frontloading a compound by triple the dose may make matters even worse. Morover test e isn't really well suited for short cycles.
So of i were you i wouldn't use test e for such a cycle. Alternativly you could do a "cookie cutter" newbie cycle at 500mg test e a week for 12 weeks. OR you could get gear better suited for short cycles and try one of the newbie cycles explained in RG article.

have you not read anything that has been posted about the high dose short cycles mate?
long esters can be used to great effect!

[IBdmfkr]

That's for clarifying. Figured by doing this type of dieting though that you'd be in close to contest shape. Or are you saying even someone at 20% BF could benefit from such a cycle?

[Gra]

Wouldn`t it be better to use prop in a 30 day cycle? What`s the reason for using test e instead?

[Pinnacle]

Wouldn`t it be better to use prop in a 30 day cycle? What`s the reason for using test e instead?

I ran Prop/Tren(extreme doses) for 21 days.The volume was tough to do,but well worth it for me.I was doing shots in places I never though I would.When the smoke cleared,I kept a little over 8 pounds.Not bad for 21 days

~Pinnacle~

[marcus300]

I ran Prop/Tren(extreme doses) for 21 days.The volume was tough to do,but well worth it for me.I was doing shots in places I never though I would.When the smoke cleared,I kept a little over 8 pounds.Not bad for 21 days

~Pinnacle~

Excellent work pinn, thanks for your imput

[Pinnacle]

Excellent work pinn, thanks for your imput

No worries marcus..my pleasure


I'd like to stress one point here.If anyone takes anything from this thread,it should be the priming protocol.This should be done before every cycle,whether it be a standard 12 week cycle,or a short burst cycle.Most ppl tend to ignore the pre cycle diet.This is crucial for maximum growth.Prime your body guys.It works.I've been doing it long before I started reading about these short burst cycles.I first heard of this from articles written by dorian yates in the mid 90's.He used this protocol to his advantage.The day after a contest,he'd be in the game training his ass off,while others were taking time off after the contest.He was a huge believer in the rebound effect from hard-core dieting.So once again.No matter what type cycle you do.Always prime your body before hand for 6-8 weeks.

Body fat percentages make no difference( to a certain degree) .It's all about priming your body.

~Pinnacle~

[marcus300]

No worries marcus..my pleasure


I'd like to stress one point here.If anyone takes anything from this thread,it should be the priming protocol.This should be done before every cycle,whether it be a standard 12 week cycle,or a short burst cycle.Most ppl tend to ignore the pre cycle diet.This is crucial for maximum growth.Prime your body guys.It works.I've been doing it long before I started reading about these short burst cycles.I first heard of this from articles written by dorian yates in the mid 90's.He used this protocol to his advantage.The day after a contest,he'd be in the game training his ass off,while others were taking time off after the contest.He was a huge believer in the rebound effect from hard-core dieting.So once again.No matter what type cycle you do.Always prime your body before hand for 6-8 weeks.

Body fat percentages make no difference( to a certain degree) .It's all about priming your body.

~Pinnacle~

Thanks pinn, your correct the prime is one of the most important things BB can do for gains, it doesnt have to be just with a short cycle, Dorian was a big believer in the prime as pinn stated and he use the short cycle theory to his advantage, if you look back at his photos he grow very quickley in a short period of time, theres some black at white pics knocking about what just show the difference within a year,

also like to state its the training which also makes a drastic difference, with the prime and this theory,

[Xtralarg]

I use prop towards the end,ran it in the last 12 days in my last short heavy cycle.

Reasons:

1.Test e is usually 250mg/ml , prop 50-100mg/1ml therefore it is easier to get the required ammounts using less cc's with E rather than P.

2.I find that changing esters/compuonds is beneficial,it shocks the body and helps you to keep gaining weight.

[goose]

Very nice thread marcus,my next cycle will be a PB cycle,very excited.Had a mate gained 19 pounds in the 4 weeks,recently.It is the furture for me....


goose4..

[IBdmfkr]

Is there a specific BF one should shoot for before running one of these cycles Marcus?

Also, do you start the GH before-hand or all at once with the anabolics at an increased dosage?

Thx

[marcus300]

Is there a specific BF one should shoot for before running one of these cycles Marcus?

Also, do you start the GH before-hand or all at once with the anabolics at an increased dosage?

Thx

No there isnt any specific BF you should be before running on of these cycles, if you prime the body beforehand correctly lets say 6-8wks, the prime will reduce the BF drasticly, its the enviroment what you have created what makes so amazing gains, the prime just puts you in a better place to grow very quickley, this is the time take of advantage of.

As for GH, well am still gathering studies on this subject, all i can give you is what experience's BB's have had, i personaly stopped my gh before i stated the cycle, i had i think about 12 wks off the GH, then i use the 4 on 4 off approach as soon as i started the cycle along with all the other stuff, i feel you need to give the body a rest and then attack it hard and fast,

ive also had BB's who was running GH at around 4ius ED before the cycle, and they upped the dose alot and they still gain very well, id say the jury is still out on that one, looking at all the results over the years id say GH EOD would be the way to go,and personanly id stop all compounds of any kind beforehand and just use every natural substances to keep the gains or at least stop them going

[IBdmfkr]

Reason I was mentioning the GH before hand was from the anticatabolic effect it can give on a restricted diet. Just figured it would be more beneficial to run it at a smaller dosage up until the cycle to hold muscle mass.

[marcus300]

Reason I was mentioning the GH before hand was from the anticatabolic effect it can give on a restricted diet. Just figured it would be more beneficial to run it at a smaller dosage up until the cycle to hold muscle mass.

Yes very true, alot do run at a low dose then up it from the start, trial and error and see what works best for yourself,