that was constructive.Originally Posted by FaizakaFez
Senior Member
that was constructive.
Female Member
I started out at 250 and felt warm right away, but after a few days cooled down, went up to 500 and really felt it. If you are using the 250 caps, you will feel it when you up it to 2 caps! Best of luck, it worked wonders for me and I am going to do another 14 days starting on the 29th.
Banned
What colour are your caps?
Banned
The caps are Red + White
Sound familar Goose?
Banned
Sounds good.Remember quality DNP will have few sides,it has been known some people think it`s fake.Next few days bump it up to 500mg.
Banned
No offense, but this is a line of bullshit that's been fed by those who sell under dosed DNP products. The side effects are proprotional to the dosage. When you take an under dosed product or use a product that contains crystal DNP (which is 75% DNP by weight), then you'll have fewer sides simply on account of the lower dose of actual DNP. It's not becayse of the product blend or because it's higher quality DNP. It's because you're taking less DNP. People often say that powder has more side effects, but this is because you're getting more actual DNP. Of course you'll have more side effects. When you adjust for equivalency (e.g. 75mg powder or 100mg crystal), the effects are identical, or "therapeutically indistinguishable" as Cutting and Tainter said in the 1930's.
Banned
Yeah tomorrow I'll do 250mg at 7am, then again at 4
Banned
I wouldn't bump up the dose... this is your first dose of DNP and your probally wondering why you're not immediately feeling like an oven.. Then you do another two tabs and end up in the ER. Patience and dont get stupid with it
Senior Member
Hey ... uh, Nark!? Do you have rational for disliking DNP? Because... if not DNP - I don't know a safer more effective means of weight loss. This is about using chemicals and synthetics to get an edge. Ephedra isn't safer in a fat loss dosage. For those who aren't the unlucky ones that are allergic to it... I can't imagine a better option if chemicals are the method of choice. Do you have any real cases of someone doing 500mg or less of DNP and having a serious health risk? And more importantly, to those who think that the risks of Andrenergic drugs are safer - well, I guess you get to find out in 20-ish years when you get a cardiogram.
Additionally ... FAKE DNP? RIDICULOUS! Nothing is going to mimic the results of DNP. Now, real DNP may not be the issue ... it may be the filler used...
Anabolic Member
Yes.
I bestow on you the pleasure of going through my posts til you find the reason(s)..as i'm not going to type that up yet again.
No.. this is about wanting to take off months of fat accumulation instantaneously.
'This' is about lacking discipline.
In the same manner that AAS use (to which this forum is dedicated) comes with an assumed responsibility... the use of any other ergogenic requires such.
Isn't it?
What pray tell, consitutes a 'fat loss dosage'?
Define 'serious'.
To name one affliction i've had post-use: DNP affected my vision... That was serious to me.
I used it once.. and for 7 days solely.
I wrote one of the DNP profiles used on the message boards.. so to question my anxillary use (anti-oxidants etc.) would be laughable.
I have friends who have used the compound and been negatively affected.
The 'seriousness' of an affliction is determined by the value assigned to it by the affected individual.
It is amusing how safe so many people claim this compound to be...
I'll reserve judgement when someone can show me a subgroup of individuals who have done it on and off for decades.
Until then...'safe' is laughable.
Until then.. 'safe' is speculation.
Laughable speculation.
Banned
This is one possible side effect, though the effects on vision are very specific. What exactly happened with your vision? Did you see an opthamologist?
I do commend you for writing a profile and making an effort to educate people, but the sad fact is that the majority of DNP users' guides on the internet are just attrocious. There's an incredible amount of false information.
People often seem to attribute the dangers and discomforts of a high dose DNP cycle to a cycle of DNP at any dose. This is a big mistake to make. People routinely push their dosages too high and then ironically bitch about the side effects they've essentially chosen via their dosages. Low dose DNP cycles are making a comeback. They're still profoundly effective at raising metabolic rate and have very few side effects and risks.
Last edited by Conciliator; 04-04-2007 at 09:57 PM.
Associate Member
Well said !!!
King Without a Crown ~
Diet? What's that...When you can just take dnp
Anabolic Member
^^Yes dear Faiz.. His body has magically changed its fat distribution pattern. Thus bodyfat deposition is no longer systemic.. it is isolated to his love handles.
Let's leave him and his thread alone.
I know i'm done with it...
Good luck SVT
Banned
You don't know me, I was 230lbs all fat in high school, I dieted my ass off and droped down to 180lbs lean senior year of highschool, been gaining weight since, I have been on a bodybuilder's diet for about 2 years now, but nothing dead specific, just eat every 2-3 hours conscienciasly. Just because I don't look as good as you yet, does not mean Im not trying. There are ALOT of kids I know doing AAS and I won't touch anything outside of DNP, Clen, T3, research chems for another at least 2 years. I'm still getting awesome gains.
Day 4, nothing. Did 40 minutes of cardio in the AM, but I was itchy as hell last night sleeping, I dunno if that has anything to do with the compound, maybe i just forgot to shower
Banned
bump it to 500, you'll be more than itchy in bed. I swear I left a Snrf shaped outline in mine!You don't know me, I was 230lbs all fat in high school, I dieted my ass off and droped down to 180lbs lean senior year of highschool, been gaining weight since, I have been on a bodybuilder's diet for about 2 years now, but nothing dead specific, just eat every 2-3 hours conscienciasly. Just because I don't look as good as you yet, does not mean Im not trying. There are ALOT of kids I know doing AAS and I won't touch anything outside of DNP, Clen, T3, research chems for another at least 2 years. I'm still getting awesome gains.
Day 4, nothing. Did 40 minutes of cardio in the AM, but I was itchy as hell last night sleeping, I dunno if that has anything to do with the compound, maybe i just forgot to shower
Member
Now do you believe me??
PS. I was in Gloucester Wednesday, I could see a trail of sweat through the town centre!! You??
Associate Member
Now do you believe me??
PS. I was in Gloucester Wednesday, I could see a trail of sweat through the town centre!! You??
i work in beverly right next to glouster!
Senior Member
sounds warm lol
Banned
I thought you were done with this thread? I don't see anyone here who wants your input.
Member
DNP causes such controversy!
Senior Member
For one thing, the chemical companies using it in paint have never been sued. Secondly, employees using it as pesticide have never sued companies they worked for - despite multi-decade long exposure.
The increase in cataracts was correlated to its FDA ban, and then never backed up by any empirical evidence to validate the idea.
When I say "fat loss dosage" vs. energy supplement dosage of ephedrine, most will know what I mean - and you may elect to act as though you don’t... but long before you perceive this as something you should take offense to, let me clarify one thing. I'm challenging you for the sake of coming away enlightened ... if you have a thread to show me, please send me the link, no need to repost or rewrite. You write well, you're clearly immersed in this subject, and you hold some views that are based on your judgment, and it is clearly anchored to your perception of “acceptable risks.”
It's stated that the effect of AAS on LDL and HDL adversely affect your likelihood of coronary related disease.. And as it stands, that disease is responsible for upwards of 40% of all deaths. That isn’t to mention a myriad of other possibly legitimate issues this VAIN pursuit may yield.
Point is ... it's no less ludicrous to deem AAS safe than it is to deem DNP, or recreational drugs of any sort safe. People die from general anesthesia. General anesthesia is used in many elective surgical procedures. It is legal to do them in all countries I know of. No one anywhere is in an uproar, and the FDA isn’t regarding it as an epidemic.
Perception is reality, and society has manufactured a construct for us to perceive the baseline of morality, and risk.
Did you know the DEA in the US was CREATED in response to the assumed association between the protesters of Vietnam war and LSD use? And that the effects of drugs were used as justification to stamp out protest?
Look ... you make a lot of sense - but you're on a moral high horse just because you're more disciplined than most are. Maybe this is your job... many people show up to work on time... and speaking of which, status drive is another example of how people differentiate themselves. It isn't passed out equally amongst all – it’s an issue of genetic quality in many respects.
Either way... with all due respect, I'll read further in to your stance on things... Given the number of posts you’ve made, please make it easier and send me the link…
And incidentally, Nolvadex will adversely affect your vision, too.
Junior Member
I like that post.I use to take DNP and had no problems.I dont take it now as I old man
This is copy and paste.
Not only has not a single test found it to be carcinogenic, but test after tyest after test find that DNP actually ATTACKS cancer cells, and helps anti-cancer medications work better, and helps anti-leukemia medications work without destroying cell DNA, and suppresses tumor growth by 20-50%. The summaries are all right here, friends. Karma me up!
DNP is Ames negative, and does not promote tumors. See for yourself at http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/dinitrop.html reports on health risks. While there have not been human studies, animal studies found no cancers caused by DNP administration. It is considered a toxin because it causes nausea, sweating, and weight loss.
http://www.cyberiron.com/drugs/dinitrophenol.html reports on halth risks from external exposue. In other words, don’t get it in your eyes, or on your skin if you’re allergic. Pretty elementary stuff.
http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm This animal study documents a 64% increase in metabolism. "These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate..." Duh.
http://www.zymed.com/pdf/04-xxxx/04-8300.pdf A PDF file about an antidote to DNP.
http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage
"Comparative study of toxicity of 4-nitrophenol and 2,4-dinitrophenol in newborn and young rats." Koizumi M, Yamamoto Y, Ito Y, Takano M, Enami T, Kamata E, Hasegawa R. Division of Risk Assessment, National Institute of Health Sciences, 1-18-1 Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan. This study found that DNP can induce death in overdosed amounts, but that up to that point no toxicity was evident, nor were there any abnormalities in physical development.
"Phenol toxicity and conjugation in human colonic epithelial cells." Pedersen G, Brynskov J, Saermark T. Dept of Medical Gastroenterology, Herlev University Hospital, Copenhagen, Denmark.. This study found that DNP has a toxic effect on cells of the colon, with "toxic" defined in two ways: first, it interfered with metabolism (this we know—it’s the intended effect of DNP users!) and second, it interfered with bowel inflammation (not a health risk. This is caused by osmotic effect, with the worst results being softened stools and gas).
"Mechanisms of bacterial resistance to macrolide antibiotics." Nakajima Y. Division of Microbiology, Hokkaido College of Pharmacy, 7-1 Katsuraoka-cho, Otaru, Hokkaido 047-0264, Japan. This study found that antibiotic-resistant bacteria could be thwarted with DNP. "the extent of the accumulated drug in a resistant cell increases as much as that in a susceptible cell in the presence of an uncoupling agent such as…2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP)."
"Absence of Crabtree effect in human melanoma cells adapted to growth at low pH: reversal by respiratory inhibitors." Burd R, Wachsberger PR, Biaglow JE, Wahl ML, Lee I, Leeper DB. Departments of Radiation Oncology, Kimmel Cancer Center, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107, USA. Check this out—DNP actually helps make melanoma tumors easier to attack by increasing ratio of oxygen consumption to lactic acid production, while glycolysis remains the same. "Therefore, tumor acute acidification and oxygenation can be achieved by exposure…"
"New insights in the cellular processing of platinum antitumor compounds, using fluorophore-labeled platinum complexes and digital fluorescence microscopy."
Molenaar C, Teuben JM, Heetebrij RJ, Tanke HJ, Reedijk J. Department of Molecular Cell Biology, Leiden University Medical Centre, The Netherlands. DNP is used as a control in tests of antitumor cells because it does NOT bind to cell DNA, nor promote tumors, yet its staining abilities enable tracking of the uptake of antitumor drugs.
Specific inhibition of breast cancer cells by antisense poly-DNP-oligoribonucleotides and targeted apoptosis." Ru K, Taub ML, Wang JH. Department of Biochemistry, State University of New York, Buffalo 14260-3000, USA Are you ready for this? DNP actually INHIBITS (!!!) breast cancers! Yes, not only does it NOT promote cancers, it’s being recognized as a cancer-fighter/blocker. "Two membrane-permeable and RNase-resistant antisense poly-2'-O-(2,4-dinitrophenyl)-oligoribonucleotides (poly-DNP-RNAs) have been synthesized as inhibitors of human breast cancer…fluorescence assay indicates that the targeted antisense inhibition by poly-DNP-RNAs leads to apoptosis of SK-Br-3 cells but does not affect nontumorigenic MCF-10A cells. The control poly-DNP-RNAs with random or sense nucleotide sequence are completely inactive." Plain English? DNP can be synthesized as an anti-cancer compound, because tests show that it blocks mutagens but does NOT affect non-mutagenic (healthy) cells, and has no RNA effects on them.
"Heat shock protein induction by certain chemical stressors is correlated with their cytotoxicity, lipophilicity and protein-denaturing capacity." Neuhaus-Steinmetz U, Rensing L. Institute of Cell Biology, Biochemistry and Biotechnology, NW II University of Bremen, Germany. The thermic effect of DNP induces protein synthesis (heat shock protein, or HSP, synthesis). In fact, it’s quite GOOD at it: "ASA, DNP and CCCP induced HSP at lower concentrations than substances with a similar lipophilicity…"
"Comparative effects of the metabolic inhibitors 2,4-dinitrophenol and iodoacetate on mouse neuroblastoma cells in vitro." Andres MI, Repetto G, Sanz P, Repetto M.
National Institute of Toxicology, Seville, Spain. In this study, DNP’s observed effect was an increase in metabolism (duh!), while the other toxins compared to it had harmful in vitro effects but no increase in metabolism.
"Inhibition of uncoupled respiration in tumor cells. A possible role of mitochondrial Ca2+ efflux." Gabai VL.Medical Radiology Research Center, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Obninsk. DNP not only does not cause tumors, but it inhibited their respiration by 20-25% compared to controls.
"Amsacrine-induced lesions in DNA and their modulation by novobiocin and 2,4-dinitrophenol." Shibuya ML, Buddenbaum WE, Don AL, Utsumi H, Suciu D, Kosaka T, Elkind MM. Department of Radiology and Radiation Biology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523. In this study, researchers found that DNP abrogates—or disrupts—cytotoxicity in hamsters (using cancerous cells). They expected to find that DNP would interfere with anticancer treatments, but instead found that DNP increased their effects. They state, though, that they cannot claim a proven effect of DNP on anticancer treatments yet, although they do agree that treatment with DNP actually enhanced the effects of the DNA regenerative therapy of anticancer chemotherapy.
"Induction of endonucleolytic DNA cleavage in human acute myelogenous leukemia cells by etoposide, camptothecin, and other cytotoxic anticancer drugs: a cautionary note." Kaufmann SH. Oncology Center, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland 21205. The authors warn that certain anti-leukemia drugs resulted in "extensive DNA degradation." BUT (good ol’ DNP to the rescue!), "Preincubation with dinitrophenol abolished the effect…"
"[Dependence of the nature of the action of metabolic inhibitors on ribosomal RNA synthesis in Ehrlich ascites carcinoma cells on cell integrity]" [Article in Russian] Akhlynina TV, Buzhurina IM, Panov MA, Rozovskaia IA, Chernaia NG. DNP actually inhibits the synthesis of RNA in carcinoma cells. In other words, it helps cancerous cells commit suicide by neutering themselves. "Ribosomal RNA (rRNA) synthesis in the intact Ehrlich ascite carcinoma cells is selectively inhibited by papaverin (ED50 = 0.01 mM), 2,4-dinitrophenol (DPN; ED50 = 5 microM), and actinomycin D (ED50 = 0.1 microgram/ml)."
"Autocatabolism of surface macromolecules shed by human melanoma cells." Bystryn JC, Perlstein J. Cancer Res 1982 Jun;42(6):2232-7. This study finds that DNP helps melanoma cells die (autocatabolize) while other cells are unaffected.
http://www.geocities.com/byggdegstor/dnpforside - tons of research, including medical studies. Excerpts:
DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation © 1996 Robert Ames)
Also: "Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys."
"Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube)."
"it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."
"Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system...dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart."
"Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine."
"dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms." (Professor Pouchet)."
Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.
Banned
This is completely incorrect. There's a great deal of evidence supporting DNP's cataractogenic effects, including the mechanism of action.
You made a nice point here. I liked this.
Correct; another nice point. I'd love to see the incidence rates of tamoxifen-induced cataractogenesis. Anyone know?
Last edited by Conciliator; 04-04-2007 at 09:25 PM.
Associate Member
hey concilliator, you seem to be very knowledgable on dnp. are you a doctor? could you post your own personal guide to dnp...it'd be great info
also what can you do to prevent cataract formation?
nolvadex gave me v blurried vision at 20mg/day after 10 days...it went back to normal after discontinuing, but I guess not exactly as before.. neverhad problems with clomid....would this make me more prone to problems while using dnp?
Banned
I considered writing a user's guide, and probably will some day, but am currently working on a book project on DNP. Take a look at this post for a little information on my background with DNP. It begins with "I got started in all this..."
See this post.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the mechanism of action is behind nolvadex-induced cataracts. Taking it along with DNP would probably increase your risk. If you've taken SERMS in the past, however, I don't think it would have any effect on your risk for developing cataracts during a subsequent cycle of DNP.
Associate Member
your link doesnt work...can you repost it?
what 's SERMS?
Banned
How's it going SVT, I tell you, on 500mg yesterday I sweated my balls off all night, I woke up drenched, and thats without my heating on.
Seems to be working
I can't figure out why I seem to have lost no weight though, I must be a water balloon right now. I'll reweigh myself today when I'm at the gym...hopefully I'm finally lighter.
Banned
End of day 4, took another 250mg around 5pm, still feel nothing, just itchy.
Anabolic Member
to decimate posts 54; 56; and 57.. or not.. hm..
Nah.. it isn't worth it.
I'll just add (again)...
Good luck SVT.
Banned
Do you mean that, or just saying that to be a good mod?
Senior Member
You missed his condescention. He's implying that he has the PROOF, but we aren't worthy of his views... It's just a statement of "superiority" ... without backing it up. In short, whether his information is useful/accurate or not... his ego hasn't been adequately flattered to go through the arduous effort of supplying a link to have it evidenced. We should just **know** that it's his word, and therefore, gospel.
Anabolic Member
Acually i implied nothing.. you're just trying to stir the pot.
I will concede however that i do have contradictory information..and you are right in a sense.. in that i do not rank typing up an article of the length deemed necessary for a rebuttal...and referencing it in my usual style, among my "top 100 fun things to do tonight"
SVT i got your PM..and you have a reply
Nark
Anabolic Member
I'm Vet; VIP; Mod and Supermod elsewhere... so i have no reason to feign sincerity. Certainly not to hold a position lol.
I'm always serious when i post here.. regardless of if it's in the lounge or steroid forum.
So while i dislike your attitude and the persona you project on the boards..I sincerely hope that you get what you're looking for out of this... or at the very least, that you don't fuck yourself up.
Bodybuilding is a lifestyle choice... a sum of steps.
At 20 years old i'd hope you realise that you're at the beginning..and that you should try to enjoy the journey.
What i've learnt is that these 'quick fixes' really fix nothing.
Narkissos
Associate Member
This coming from a guy that is 24 ??? umm good words for sure, doubt you are really old enough to know it yet though. When you hit 50 you will really know !! but nice words just the same.
Bodybuilding is a lifestyle choice... a sum of steps.
At 20 years old i'd hope you realise that you're at the beginning..and that you should try to enjoy the journey.
What i've learnt is that these 'quick fixes' really fix nothing.
Narkissos
2/3 Deca 1/3 Test
Not to be a prick but, don't ya think Narkissos kinda has a point SVT?
Maybe you haven't actuallly been busting your ass as hard as you thought? Or wouldn't you have achieved your goal by now? I know that happens to me, well all the time really, I look back and think "I could've done more" Or "I need to try harder" though at the time I thought I was giving it my all. It helps to be your own worste critic, to keep moving forward, demanding more and more of yourself, IMO.
I know Narkissos isn't easy to "get along with" at times perhaps but he may be giving you just what you need....the brutal truth.
Banned
if anything i was hoping for a little bit of credit seeing how this is my first time every using anything close to AAS seeing how most kids I know are using a gram of test along with more deca and tren to make a horse fall over
2/3 Deca 1/3 Test
if anything i was hoping for a little bit of credit seeing how this is my first time every using anything close to AAS seeing how most kids I know are using a gram of test along with more deca and tren to make a horse fall over
Well it is still pretty harsh but I am glad to see you at least not jumping into a gram of tren.
I do wish you luck regardless.
Senior Member
Nark! Dude... Just a link. You said you've typed it out prior to this to an exhaustive degree.
Again... I'm not trying to measure d1cks, nor to be one - I'm just trying to say whatever I have to say to get you to disclose the basis of your opinion. I researched this compound extensively, and I've looked for anything that would sway my POV on it.
The majority of posts with the stance of ... OMG, DNP almost KILLED ME! are based on BB's who regard a day spent not growing a day of life wasted. They do what I'd regard as a "megadose" run of this stuff ... and it's nothing to be triffled with. I wholeheartedly respect it, and follow the protocol that PhD's used when treating for obesity.
Calorie restrict to a moderate diet.
Run 200 - 300mg ED for extended periods of time.
Take supplements as needed (vit, mineral, shit like that)
Possibly take t3.
Results? After a year one guy lost 125 pounds; this is interesting because although he was 250lbs, and had the discipline that likely causes such obesity... he was able to achieve a drastic change in composition that even liposuction couldn't yeild more safely. 1mg per pound is an EXTREMELY light dose, and should actually enable someone to be adequately productive so long as they aren't in college, supporting themself, and taking a heavy load of classes. They extend the period, not the dose. Where as amongst the BB community ... people are in a rush to do A LOT per day, so long as they minimize the duration. Why? I can't explain it. But I think it's that methodology that has resulted in the disposition the average guy holds.
Funny, probably more people on here using insulin than DNP ... And I can't imagine even need to reiterate which is more dangerous.
What ever combination of words needed to get you to post up either some references, or just the link in which you state the cause of your opinion ... please assume I've said them, and reply accordingly.
Thanks
Banned
Not when I've been on it for 5 days and felt nothing and no change in weight
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